Presence meets Ego

[Vajrahridaya]

Nihilism: philosophical doctrine suggesting the negation of one or more meaningful aspects of life.

 

In theory all concepts can be made to sound perfect, that’s how they sold communism.

A concept can also evolve or be changed by the culture it travels to. I think your elucidation of Anatta is one flavoured by Vajrayana and is a idealised projection. Finding traces of Nihilism in Buddhism is not a projection its just grounding metaphysics back to reality. Early Buddhism was nihilistic, Theravadin would be viewed by most sane people as nihilistic, as per a monk setting himself on fire. In countries such as Sri Lanka, Thailand and Tibet where Buddhism has mixed with politics it has created social inertia; any tradition that wherever it has been institutionalised has stagnated societies must be a dangerous lubricant for nihilism. Buddhists can not ignore history. Psychologists may ultimately view negation as dangerous and flawed approach to inter-subjective recognition. You have no basis to project eternalism onto critics of Buddhism, you are just diluting the debate with platitudes and clichés. It is an indication of the contempt some Buddhist have for honest debate.

 

You are free to have your opinion. I don't think your aggressively angry, one sided, linear projection of a stance towards Buddhism to be very debate worthy.

 

Eternalism is defined as thinking that there is an eternal self sustained essence. So, it does actually have weight when it's applied correctly in that sense.

 

And of course early Buddhism would be considered Nihilistic to materialists, as in people who use the term "natural" as an excuse to remain un-investigative. I think any path of renunciation in any tradition would be considered nihilistic to a person who is so densely body defined like yourself. But, upon deeper investigation, it is not. Also, the whole burning monk thing is not at all justified anywhere in the Buddhist cannon, neither are lots of other things that Buddhists have done.

 

Your idea that Buddhism created social inertia in Tibet is completely unfounded as it brought many benefits and liberated many beings. But, you don't believe in Buddhahood anyway, so what's the point in talking to you about this.

 

Vajrayana and all it's concepts elucidated in Tibet are from India where it finds it's birth place. The philosophy has not changed at all. All the source scriptures for Vajrayana are in sanskrit and from India. Only it's display changed in Tibet. You seem to focus on the parts of history that fulfills your projection of animosity towards Buddhism. There are many positive things that Buddhism did for politics in Tibet, for those that digested the teaching at least. Many of the Dalai Lamas who weren't poisoned or died young, did many, many good things for bringing the people together. The current Dalai Lama said that not all the incarnations were his though. Of course, you don't believe in re-birth either so... what's the point of going there?

Edited January 17, 2011 by Vajrahridaya

[Vajrahridaya]

I think ego also exists physically as muscular contraction of the body and tension and releasing those tensions is another way to discover it's groundlessness

 

The point of yoga!

[Vajrahridaya]

 

The muscular tensioning and releasing is more a result of our emotions possibly, but not exclusively, caused by our ego. I think to present ego as being more than a mental process might be an error.

 

But then, what do I know? Hehehe.

 

Scientists have proof to say that mind and body are quite inter-dependent and what happens to one happens to the other in a sense. What I mean by "in a sense" as there are individual nuances dependent upon states of mind or body, as in the factors are somewhat unique and variable, but definite that the mind and body are one organism in a sense though of course, I believe the mind lasts longer and manifests new bodies, so takes precedence.

[dwai]

[Vajrahridaya]

Hi Jetsun,

 

Yes, that was a nice curve ball you threw into the discussion. I wish I could speak more to it but my ignorance of the subject would very quickly show. Perhaps there are others who can carry the discussion further.

 

What Jetsun is talking about is one of the fundamental reasons why yoga, chi-gong, and meditation work. Relax and body and the mind will follow, relax the mind and the body will follow, in relaxation there is openness and receptivity.

[Otis]

Terms are defined internally and certain terms are necessary at different times for different people and some terms are not needed ever for some people. It's all relative. I do agree that the idea of, "killing" the ego is rather extreme, black and white, somewhat intense, but sometimes it helps. It did for me, for a while there... that idea was very good for my particular psychology during the 90's.

Good point.

[rex]

I think ego also exists physically as muscular contraction of the body and tension and releasing those tensions is another way to discover it's groundlessness

Spot on! As were all the replies this engendered. Personally I don't hold with any approach that ignores, devalues or denigrates the body.

[Otis]

Personally I don't hold with any approach that ignores, devalues or denigrates the body.

Hear! Hear!

[Birch]

Sorry to break it to you but Bronte Baxter's "thesis" is complete and unequivocal...what's the correct word? Crap!

 

Kate I agree with your understanding and sympathize with your fears wrt Buddhists, but Bronte Baxter doesn't have anything beyond a tiny, miniscule familiarity with what he refers to in his article...but I would be surprised if it were any different. I have found most New-agers I have encountered to be woefully lacking in intelligence as well as maturity.

 

Oh, I just thought it was interesting. I'm not endorsing him (I actually thought it was a her BTW).

I probably should have covered it in caveats.

 

To explain further, having practiced some qi-gong - including healing sounds and whatnot, I'm very interested in the energetic "signatures" of specific "things" (for want of a better word). I can certainly envision a "mantra" as having an energetic signature of some kind (much like other "thoughtforms" or even types of chi have).

 

I thought it was interesting to dig into what a specific signature would be "doing" - or maybe "resonating with" is maybe more to the point.

 

Anyway, as I said elsewhere, I'm making a point in my practice of not "hooking" up with anything apart from "source" - so no "thoughtforms" or "big-dippers" in my cultivation. Yes, that could mean that I'm not going to get anywhere particularly fast, but I'm not in any hurry and I have a bit of an idea that a human being is actually a pretty neat spiritual being all by itself

[dwai]

Oh, I just thought it was interesting. I'm not endorsing him (I actually thought it was a her BTW).

I probably should have covered it in caveats.

 

To explain further, having practiced some qi-gong - including healing sounds and whatnot, I'm very interested in the energetic "signatures" of specific "things" (for want of a better word). I can certainly envision a "mantra" as having an energetic signature of some kind (much like other "thoughtforms" or even types of chi have).

 

I thought it was interesting to dig into what a specific signature would be "doing" - or maybe "resonating with" is maybe more to the point.

 

Anyway, as I said elsewhere, I'm making a point in my practice of not "hooking" up with anything apart from "source" - so no "thoughtforms" or "big-dippers" in my cultivation. Yes, that could mean that I'm not going to get anywhere particularly fast, but I'm not in any hurry and I have a bit of an idea that a human being is actually a pretty neat spiritual being all by itself

Ah i see!

 

I would recommend you delve into theory of seed sounds if you want to investigae into the mantras.

 

 

Why? Because as you rightly recognized every sound has an ewnergetic signature. In sanskrit language the 50 syllables have very specific ewnergetic values and affect specific parts of the human complex.

 

There are different types of mantras....seedless, with-seed.

Of the seed mantras used in tantra and specificw vedic applicatons the majority affect chakras directly. Of the othrr types of mantras there are spcific metres ( rythms) called chchandas which are needed to learn proper expression an practice. For eg, the gayatri mantra (perhaps the most popular mantra among hindus) is in the gayatri metre. There are other metres and these define the pronunciation of the sounds, where to extend a syllable, when to stop abruptly etc...

 

If a mantra is not practiced along the rules that make it active, it becomes ineffective. So yes, mantras will have a diret energetic impact on the practitioner, provided they practice correctly...

 

In the same line, if someond decides to use their own words as mantra, say "oh mommy take me home" instead of "om mani padme hum" the odds of their practice bearing fruit are as likely as of pigs growing wings and flying

Edited January 18, 2011 by dwai

[Birch]

Ah i see!

 

I would recommend you delve into theory of seed sounds if you want to investigae into the mantras.

 

 

Why? Because as you rightly recognized every sound has an ewnergetic signature. In sanskrit language the 50 syllables have very specific ewnergetic values and affect specific parts of the human complex.

 

There are different types of mantras....seedless, with-seed.

Of the seed mantras used in tantra and specificw vedic applicatons the majority affect chakras directly. Of the othrr types of mantras there are spcific metres ( rythms) called chchandas which are needed to learn proper expression an practice. For eg, the gayatri mantra (perhaps the most popular mantra among hindus) is in the gayatri metre. There are other metres and these define the pronunciation of the sounds, where to extend a syllable, when to stop abruptly etc...

 

If a mantra is not practiced along the rules that make it active, it becomes ineffective. So yes, mantras will have a diret energetic impact on the practitioner, provided they practice correctly...

 

In the same line, if someond decides to use their own words as mantra, say "oh mommy take me home" instead of "om mani padme hum" the odds of their practice bearing fruit are as likely as of pigs growing wings and flying

 

Thanks, that's what I thought/know. However, what about mantras directly related to "gods" (only because I can't spell dieties ;-))?

 

How about "silent" mantras?

 

And how about "physical" mantras (i.e "mudras")?

 

I know, a bunch of questions, but since you kindly answered ;-)

 

Thank you!

 

:-)

[dwai]

[Birch]

As there are different (transcendent to gross levels of consciousness/awareness), there are corresponding levels of sound as well. The States of Waking, Sleeping, Dreaming and The "other state" (also known a Turiya, where there are no thoughts/objects in consciousness or only pure consciousness) have corresponding levels of sound (based on subtlety) -- these are Vaikhari, Madhyama, Pashyanti and Para. Para corresponds to Turiya state).

 

here's a good description:

 

 

 

Mudras are seals and they are used in conjunction with mantras (usually seed mantras) and/or pranayama (breathing) to activate various chakras and nadi (meridian) complexes.

 

Will be glad to discuss further on this matter if you'd like.

 

 

 

 

Best,

 

 

 

 

Dwai

 

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Thanks!

 

Interesting information. I tend, however, to get confused by the jargon. Some of the concepts themselves are relatively familiar to me (not all of them) but there's a point I've found at which sound and silence feel very similar. A point at which actual sound is jarring if it doesn't "fit" the "reality". A point at which you can feel that it's "off".

 

When it comes to hand seals, what is their symbolic purpose? I do some to exercise my hands or for acupressure but I'm not well-versed in the symbolism of them. As I said to another Bum, there are things that I don't want to do (or "say") with my body (kow-towing is one of them).

 

I guess I should re-thread...

 

edit: to be clear about "symbolic" purpose of handseals. The acupressure stuff I kind of "get"

Edited January 21, 2011 by Kate

[johndoe2012]

Thanks Jetsun. I guess this is a new idea to some people.

 

Here's a book some people might find useful and new to them .

 

It allows us to identify and work with clusters of beliefs and energies that conglomerate. John Rowan called them sub - personalities. It is a highly effective method for many people, of working on their various facets.

 

despite what the image says, you cant just click to look inside...

 

regarding that book, you can dig out the methods from it, but probably you should read Discover your subpersonalities instead.

 

Rowan also recommends Inner work for working with these personalities.

 

Personally from my short reading of "Subpersonalities" it seems to be a good approach to solve inner conflicts.

[dwai]

Thanks!

 

Interesting information. I tend, however, to get confused by the jargon. Some of the concepts themselves are relatively familiar to me (not all of them) but there's a point I've found at which sound and silence feel very similar. A point at which actual sound is jarring if it doesn't "fit" the "reality". A point at which you can feel that it's "off".

 

When it comes to hand seals, what is their symbolic purpose? I do some to exercise my hands or for acupressure but I'm not well-versed in the symbolism of them. As I said to another Bum, there are things that I don't want to do (or "say") with my body (kow-towing is one of them).

 

I guess I should re-thread...

 

edit: to be clear about "symbolic" purpose of handseals. The acupressure stuff I kind of "get"

 

It seems jargon to you because you are not familiar with the system and the language (that's also my problem with most things, even in Taiji practice for instance). But really they are concepts...and independent of the syntax, they convey certain knowledge. Knowing that is more important than the jargon.

 

Mudras are very interesting, because as you are already aware, there are many mudras. And each work on specific meridians or specific "doshas" (per Ayurvedic medical system, there are predominantly three doshas or humors, the wind (Vata), water (Kapha) and Fire (Pitta)).

 

The mudras I was referring to are for Yogic/pranayama practice only. And they serve one of two purposes...to close or activate a circuit (eg: tongue pressing into upper palate will complete the microcosmic orbit) or to connect certain body locks (bandhas -- perenium lock, plexus lock, chin lock) to certain hand gestures. When used during asana (yoga pose) or pranayam (breathing), they will move the energy into or direct the energy into certain channels.

[Birch]

 

The mudras I was referring to are for Yogic/pranayama practice only. And they serve one of two purposes...to close or activate a circuit (eg: tongue pressing into upper palate will complete the microcosmic orbit) or to connect certain body locks (bandhas -- perenium lock, plexus lock, chin lock) to certain hand gestures. When used during asana (yoga pose) or pranayam (breathing), they will move the energy into or direct the energy into certain channels.

 

Good. I was more concerned with the other mantras and mudras. You know, the ones that send "hails" and whatnot to specific thoughtforms?

 

In a recent post about "bridging" realities (like a voice calling "your" name in a crowd) there was quite a case made for the idea that "this shit is real" (to borrow a movie quote) - that thoughtforms can in fact be invoked and maintained and have an effect on people because the latter "keep them in business" (so to speak). I know it's a bit more complicated than that, but hopefully you get my drift?

 

You know, it's supposedly "however many years" after the "death of Jesus" and the dude is "sticking around" in iconography, in thought (although not in action... ) all over the place. Hell, I even bought some "Jesus" sticking plasters for fun when I was in Texas. I actually wondered if they would heal faster, bizarrely I haven't cut my finger since...

[johndoe2012]

Focusing and similarities between it and vipassana as taught by Goenka

[dwai]

Good. I was more concerned with the other mantras and mudras. You know, the ones that send "hails" and whatnot to specific thoughtforms?

 

In a recent post about "bridging" realities (like a voice calling "your" name in a crowd) there was quite a case made for the idea that "this shit is real" (to borrow a movie quote) - that thoughtforms can in fact be invoked and maintained and have an effect on people because the latter "keep them in business" (so to speak). I know it's a bit more complicated than that, but hopefully you get my drift?

 

You know, it's supposedly "however many years" after the "death of Jesus" and the dude is "sticking around" in iconography, in thought (although not in action... ) all over the place. Hell, I even bought some "Jesus" sticking plasters for fun when I was in Texas. I actually wondered if they would heal faster, bizarrely I haven't cut my finger since...

 

Yes...there are specific practices that can be used to modify and alter the material realm (spontaneous manifestation, being in two places at the same time, etc).

 

 

If you go to the South of India, there is a very active (but secretive) practice of these systems...it is called Bhanumati. Look in the region of Southern Karnataka (South-Western coastal areas primarily) and Kerala.

[Birch]

Interesting. Thanks