Love and Relationships

[Maddie]

Probably anyone who has followed my posts with even a half awareness for sometime would be able to realize that my marriage has been problematic, and that I have been uncomfortable with sexuality. I have recently come to a deeper personal realization that I guess seems pretty obvoius looking back.

I have spent a great deal of effort in the past couple years in my Qigong practices in trying to reduce or eliminate my sex drive (as unusual as this might seem to many). It seemed as long as I spent a lot of effort in trying to reduce it, not only was my sucess in doing so only limited at best, I was not able to progress beyond it. At the same time I had for a very long time been having serious relationship problems with my wife, yet because I did not want to be a cheater even if we were having problems I felt very uncomfortable with having a libido because its tendancy was to tempt me to do things that would have violated my conscience. So for a long while I thought the answer was to reduce my libdo.

What I have recently come to realize is that my approach to things was quite unnatural. Though it may seem obvious to others, the fact that a healthy libido is a normal, even healthy thing has been a recent re-discovery to me. I say re-discovery because before the years of relationship difficulties I did realize this, but as my relationship deteriorated this became lost to me. Not only was I trying to force myself to not have a sex drive which in reality is normal, I was forcing myself to love someone that I did not love which is also not natural or healthy.

When we first got married I loved my wife more than anyone can imagine, but after that, after years of her breaking my heart with constant hurting words, and cruel behavior it seems that my heart was irrepriably broken towards her. Yet just because I had a broken heart towards her did not mean that the normal functions of my heart and libido ceased to function. It was after that she broke my heart that I found it increasingly difficult to want to remain faithful to her, and I also found myself having to "fight off" more and more feelings of attraction to others. Yet because we were still in a marriage, at least the in the technical sense of the word, I felt exceedingly guilty for such desires, though now I realize that such desires were actually the natural and healthy reaction of my body, and trying to force something against nature was the unhealthy thing to do.

I am now at a point where now that I am being more honest with myself I wonder if there is anyway to work things out in a way that would be a true solution with her, or if doing so would still be trying to force things against nature?

I have seen several other posts by people on this forum (mainly guys) who for various reasons also seem to feel uncomfortable with having a libido. But after now having become more honest with myself I wonder if for the other guys who feel uncomfortable with having a sex drive that the problem may very well not be the sex drive at all, but rather have a more emotion based explination. For someone in my situation the issue was not really sex drive, but a moral dilema of trying to force myself to be in a love-less relationship. I've seen other guys who seem frustrated in their abilities to find a mate. Again in this situation I do not feel that the solution is eliminating the sex drive, but discovering what it is within that produces such a difficulty. If it is a self-esteem issue then work on your self esteem, don't try to suppress what is a natural expression of your body. If you somehow feel that sex is dirty or bad, then find out why you feel that way and remove that blockage from your life, deal with your guilt and shame issues.

I realize that Buddhist monks live celibate lives, but for one most people are not monks, and two I'm not exactely sure why they do that, and further more am not sure if that is the best way to do it, or even necessary at all (maybe it is, but I don't get it).

I guess the key issue out of all of this is if you feel a way that does not seem to be in alignment with nature, then don't create more blockages in your life by going against nature; rather find out what it is that is keeping you from following the path of nature and correct it.

[Otis]

Great post, Matt, and major props for your honest self-reflection and sharing.

 

I am another who has had a lot of shame issues tied up with my libido, and am still sorting a lot of that out now. I used to feel a lot of guilt about masturbation even, and I was always very careful to appear "safe", non-threatening, to women. I have rather puritanical Xtian parents, altho' I can't say with any certainty, how much my upbringing played into that.

 

My major issue with libido now is: in partner dance, I tend to get turned on by new cute dance partners. When I get turned on, my IQ drops about 40 points, and I automatically go into an energetic seduction mode, which tends to be very effective. All that is great and rewarding at the moment, but then afterwards, there is the karma of having another person who now has expectations, or regrets (I've accidentally broken up some relationships). Plus, since my dancing is mostly within a relatively tight community, my reputation becomes closer to that of a predator, rather than a bright, playful person that others can trust, which is how I'd prefer to be seen.

 

My reputation is not everything, of course, but it is a big part of relating to others, which is the focus of much of my practice, these days.

 

Nor do I necessarily want to shut down my own libido, or its activation into seduction. Because of my childhood shame, I am overly-practiced in saying "no" to my libido, to shutting it down. Now, I want to live a fully healthy alive libido, but hopefully, without all the karmic effects that serial seduction brings (the ideal, I think, would be to find a great partner that continues to turn me on and meet me, so I'm not compelled to chase the new girls, but that partner is not currently within view).

[King Kabalabhati]

I wrote a long and winding post about my own experiences but then deleted it.

 

All I want to say about this right now is that sexuality and emotions are inter-connected but we needn't know how nor need we work on them as separate things, just steady daily Qigong and in time, sooner or later, all the healing will take place. Sexuality will harmonize into our lives, either there will be a satisfying sex life or a satisfying life without sex. Whatever your natural potential is it will unfold. But at first, while there is still great urgency to resolve things quickly, it can be very frustrating.

[Maddie]

Hey Otis

Thanks for responding. After reading what you had to say (and I've had a dance class in college before I know what your talking about) it seems that we both really are struggeling with the same issue, which is integrating love with our sexuality. I had been working a long time on my sex chakra because I thought that my sex drive was the problem, but was not really getting any results, or making any progress. I came to realize that the reason I was not getting anywhere with that was because my sex chakra was doing its job perfectly i.e. I wanted sex lol. I did not start making progress until I began to work on my heart chakra (which is what I am currently doing now). Loveless sexuality is a huge problem in our society, but it is what causes us to not find sex fufilling beyond the passion of the moment. It is also what causes us to view women as objects of pleasure rather than human beings with a soul (and which is also why we feel a great deal of guilt about it as well, because our sub-conscious knows such attitudes are not healthy).

As far as what role your conservative christian parents played, I would say it would be a huge role, as my mother is also the same. In fact I think more or less the mess our culture is in now is largely due to the influence of conservative christianity (what ever you try to push down the hardest, is what pops back up the strongest). The general attitude of most conservative christians I've known (and I've known a lot) is that they tend to have a very negative attitude towards sexuality. It tends to be viewed not as a natural part of life, but as something dirty and shameful. Thus producing negative attitudes about something that is just as natural as any other aspect of life is definately going to be harmful to the personality.

I think therefore that the best thing to do in your situation is to not run from your libido, but to connect it to your heart, and work on opening your heart through which ever cultivation method that you use.

[Maddie]

I wrote a long and winding post about my own experiences but then deleted it.

 

All I want to say about this right now is that sexuality and emotions are inter-connected but we needn't know how nor need we work on them as separate things, just steady daily Qigong and in time, sooner or later, all the healing will take place. Sexuality will harmonize into our lives, either there will be a satisfying sex life or a satisfying life without sex. Whatever your natural potential is it will unfold. But at first, while there is still great urgency to resolve things quickly, it can be very frustrating.

 

Its a pitty you deleted it, I would have enjoyed reading that. I think its the urgency that is the most frustrating because when you feel bad about something you want to feel better NOW.

[King Kabalabhati]

I came to realize that the reason I was not getting anywhere with that was because my sex chakra was doing its job perfectly i.e. I wanted sex lol. I did not start making progress until I began to work on my heart chakra (which is what I am currently doing now).

 

I have always felt sexual stimulation very strongly as pressure in the chest. Now today I realised when I saw this sexy picture that I felt the a sensation in the lower Dantien instead, nothing in the chest. So something has changed. I just spent a week with my ex-wife, with whom we've decided to remain friends and not sexual, and felt no disturbing urge, which I usually have felt..

 

I'm going now to do my practice, this stuff works!

[Maddie]

I have always felt sexual stimulation very strongly as pressure in the chest.

 

Thats interesting that you should mention that because that has been the same for me very often, sometimes even to the exclusion of stimulation where one would assume it should be.

[King Kabalabhati]

Thats interesting that you should mention that because that has been the same for me very often, sometimes even to the exclusion of stimulation where one would assume it should be.

 

Oh yeah. A few times it has not happened for me at all where it should have, just this great excitement in the chest. Not very useful

[Maddie]

Oh yeah. A few times it has not happened for me at all where it should have, just this great excitement in the chest. Not very useful

 

Hmmmm interesting, the exact same thing has happened to me many times. All I can assume (especially after what I've been doing lately) is that it would indicated a blockage in the heart chakra area.

[fiveelementtao]

Are you seeing a therapist?

[Maddie]

Are you seeing a therapist?

 

No, I kind of have to be my own therapist because I can not afford to go to one, in fact it was largely due to my lack of insurance that got me into Qigong in the first place, though it does seem to be working.

[fiveelementtao]

No, I kind of have to be my own therapist because I can not afford to go to one, in fact it was largely due to my lack of insurance that got me into Qigong in the first place, though it does seem to be working.

I understand. Qigong no doubt is very helpful. I admire your bravery in sharing your situation. You do seem to be seriously trying to face your issues. From what I have read about you here, it seems that your issues are very deep seated from childhood. The problem with being one's own therapist is that you are not able to be objective. In short you are not qualified to advise yourself. I doubt that you will be able to get any serious help from an internet forum.

Though it may be difficult to afford therapy, it is not impossible. It may be a challenge, but it is possible. If you still love your wife, IMO, you owe it to her to get some help. You made a commitment to her when you got married. Part of that commitment is to work through problems. She might even be willing to support you through it. Beyond that, you owe it to yourself to enjoy a normal healthy sex life. Using qigong to suppress your sexual desires is ultimately destructive to your emotional and physical health...

My .02

[Maddie]

I understand. Qigong no doubt is very helpful. I admire your bravery in sharing your situation. You do seem to be seriously trying to face your issues. From what I have read about you here, it seems that your issues are very deep seated from childhood. The problem with being one's own therapist is that you are not able to be objective. In short you are not qualified to advise yourself. I doubt that you will be able to get any serious help from an internet forum.

Though it may be difficult to afford therapy, it is not impossible. It may be a challenge, but it is possible. If you still love your wife, IMO, you owe it to her to get some help. You made a commitment to her when you got married. Part of that commitment is to work through problems. She might even be willing to support you through it. Beyond that, you owe it to yourself to enjoy a normal healthy sex life. Using qigong to suppress your sexual desires is ultimately destructive to your emotional and physical health...

My .02

 

Oh if you think that is what I'm still trying to do you misunderstood, actually I am doing the opposite now, and realizing that sex is a normal healthy part of life, and that what I really felt uncomfortable with was loveless sex.

Edited January 15, 2011 by dmattwads

[King Kabalabhati]

Using qigong to suppress your sexual desires is ultimately destructive to your emotional and physical health...

My .02

 

Yep that won't work. It's better to use it as one tool for working towards an overall harmony. It can help with relieving the urgency of the matter, to get some extra space to work things out. Still it's possible that some aren't meant to have a rich sexual life. Forcing things either way is not the Way.

[pennyofheaven]

Probably anyone who has followed my posts with even a half awareness for sometime would be able to realize that my marriage has been problematic, and that I have been uncomfortable with sexuality. I have recently come to a deeper personal realization that I guess seems pretty obvoius looking back.

I have spent a great deal of effort in the past couple years in my Qigong practices in trying to reduce or eliminate my sex drive (as unusual as this might seem to many). It seemed as long as I spent a lot of effort in trying to reduce it, not only was my sucess in doing so only limited at best, I was not able to progress beyond it. At the same time I had for a very long time been having serious relationship problems with my wife, yet because I did not want to be a cheater even if we were having problems I felt very uncomfortable with having a libido because its tendancy was to tempt me to do things that would have violated my conscience. So for a long while I thought the answer was to reduce my libdo.

What I have recently come to realize is that my approach to things was quite unnatural. Though it may seem obvious to others, the fact that a healthy libido is a normal, even healthy thing has been a recent re-discovery to me. I say re-discovery because before the years of relationship difficulties I did realize this, but as my relationship deteriorated this became lost to me. Not only was I trying to force myself to not have a sex drive which in reality is normal, I was forcing myself to love someone that I did not love which is also not natural or healthy.

When we first got married I loved my wife more than anyone can imagine, but after that, after years of her breaking my heart with constant hurting words, and cruel behavior it seems that my heart was irrepriably broken towards her. Yet just because I had a broken heart towards her did not mean that the normal functions of my heart and libido ceased to function. It was after that she broke my heart that I found it increasingly difficult to want to remain faithful to her, and I also found myself having to "fight off" more and more feelings of attraction to others. Yet because we were still in a marriage, at least the in the technical sense of the word, I felt exceedingly guilty for such desires, though now I realize that such desires were actually the natural and healthy reaction of my body, and trying to force something against nature was the unhealthy thing to do.

I am now at a point where now that I am being more honest with myself I wonder if there is anyway to work things out in a way that would be a true solution with her, or if doing so would still be trying to force things against nature?

I have seen several other posts by people on this forum (mainly guys) who for various reasons also seem to feel uncomfortable with having a libido. But after now having become more honest with myself I wonder if for the other guys who feel uncomfortable with having a sex drive that the problem may very well not be the sex drive at all, but rather have a more emotion based explination. For someone in my situation the issue was not really sex drive, but a moral dilema of trying to force myself to be in a love-less relationship. I've seen other guys who seem frustrated in their abilities to find a mate. Again in this situation I do not feel that the solution is eliminating the sex drive, but discovering what it is within that produces such a difficulty. If it is a self-esteem issue then work on your self esteem, don't try to suppress what is a natural expression of your body. If you somehow feel that sex is dirty or bad, then find out why you feel that way and remove that blockage from your life, deal with your guilt and shame issues.

I realize that Buddhist monks live celibate lives, but for one most people are not monks, and two I'm not exactely sure why they do that, and further more am not sure if that is the best way to do it, or even necessary at all (maybe it is, but I don't get it).

I guess the key issue out of all of this is if you feel a way that does not seem to be in alignment with nature, then don't create more blockages in your life by going against nature; rather find out what it is that is keeping you from following the path of nature and correct it.

 

I am suspecting that you already know the solution to your dilemma. It is the battle between the heart and mind. The mind wins when what you hold to be true is broken by your actions. If this is so it only requires you listen to the heart without participation from your mind. Any course of action you must take will then feel right. If what you hold to be true is false, you will forever be participating in a cycle of denial. Truth to oneself is more rewarding. Only you will know that.

[Aetherous]

I am suspecting that you already know the solution to your dilemma. It is the battle between the heart and mind. The mind wins when what you hold to be true is broken by your actions. If this is so it only requires you listen to the heart without participation from your mind. Any course of action you must take will then feel right. If what you hold to be true is false, you will forever be participating in a cycle of denial. Truth to oneself is more rewarding. Only you will know that.

 

Thanks for posting that, pennyofheaven.

[Otis]

I think therefore that the best thing to do in your situation is to not run from your libido, but to connect it to your heart, and work on opening your heart through which ever cultivation method that you use.

Thanks, Matt for your reply. I'm in complete agreement with you here. Opening my heart (both as chakra and as metaphor) has been central to my recent exploration.

 

One of the tricky things (and it sounds like you're dealing with that, too) is that the woman who draws my heart is not necessarily the same woman who draws my libido. So sometimes those two forces pull me in very different directions.

[Maddie]

Thanks, Matt for your reply. I'm in complete agreement with you here. Opening my heart (both as chakra and as metaphor) has been central to my recent exploration.

 

One of the tricky things (and it sounds like you're dealing with that, too) is that the woman who draws my heart is not necessarily the same woman who draws my libido. So sometimes those two forces pull me in very different directions.

 

I think you just said what both of our dilemas are, that what draws our heart and libido are not necessarily the same thing. I believe this again shows the diconnect between two parts of ourselves that need connection.

 

Penny, I agree with what you said about the heart vs the mind, yet even then sometimes its still complicated. In my case for example I do not feel any great connection with my wife, yet I love my children more than anything. So on one hand my heart does not feel connected to my wife, but also could not stand hurting my children, or not being there for them like I'd want to....

[King Kabalabhati]

I think you just said what both of our dilemas are, that what draws our heart and libido are not necessarily the same thing. I believe this again shows the diconnect between two parts of ourselves that need connection.

 

Penny, I agree with what you said about the heart vs the mind, yet even then sometimes its still complicated. In my case for example I do not feel any great connection with my wife, yet I love my children more than anything. So on one hand my heart does not feel connected to my wife, but also could not stand hurting my children, or not being there for them like I'd want to....

 

In my situation it's my wife who doesn't seem to get turned on by me. She's an Asberger person so for her it's a bit different anyway but I don't pretend like I haven't caused a lot of our problems by not being the man, in and out of bed.

 

So we love each other dearly as best friends and we have a nice peaceful country place and beautiful kids..Things could have been quite perfect if not for this one issue.. But it's mostly processed by now, next step would be to find a lover to practice the Tao of yin & yang with.. And that's not very easy, especially when I 'm spending most of my time here in the woods. So I'm just building my Jing and doing an hour of Small Universe a day in full lotus to make sure everything runs smoothly.

 

One progressive step I noticed is that once we decided to quit trying to make things work sexually (a few weeks ago) I have not felt the lust for her as I used to. Still her presence has an effect.. Things seem to get a bit chaotic in the house, instead of two people working together to keep it clean and make things work it's two people distracted by each other. But it's nice to have her around every once in a while, she has the best sense of the absurd I've ever encountered.

[TaoBee]

In my situation it's my wife who doesn't seem to get turned on by me. She's an Asberger person so for her it's a bit different anyway but I don't pretend like I haven't caused a lot of our problems by not being the man, in and out of bed.

 

So we love each other dearly as best friends and we have a nice peaceful country place and beautiful kids..Things could have been quite perfect if not for this one issue.. But it's mostly processed by now, next step would be to find a lover to practice the Tao of yin & yang with.. And that's not very easy, especially when I 'm spending most of my time here in the woods. So I'm just building my Jing and doing an hour of Small Universe a day in full lotus to make sure everything runs smoothly.

 

One progressive step I noticed is that once we decided to quit trying to make things work sexually (a few weeks ago) I have not felt the lust for her as I used to. Still her presence has an effect.. Things seem to get a bit chaotic in the house, instead of two people working together to keep it clean and make things work it's two people distracted by each other. But it's nice to have her around every once in a while, she has the best sense of the absurd I've ever encountered.

 

Good Morning KK-

 

I have worked with Asperger's patients before...tough stuff. You being there for her still and being there for the children is both important and loving

 

Peace and Love <3

[King Kabalabhati]

Good Morning KK-

 

I have worked with Asperger's patients before...tough stuff. You being there for her still and being there for the children is both important and loving

 

Peace and Love <3

 

Morning TB!

 

And thank you. This kind of posting is heart-warming.

 

I do feel somehow important and loving.. In fact I feel like.. a King

[TaoBee]

Morning TB!

 

And thank you. This kind of posting is heart-warming.

 

I do feel somehow important and loving.. In fact I feel like.. a King

 

You need an emoticon with a crown on it. Of course you have to be able to knock the crown askew on those days when things just aren't quite right!!

 

Which means I need one with bee wings ( with a broken wing for those days when I don't quite fly right!!)

 

Buzz!!

[King Kabalabhati]

You need an emoticon with a crown on it. Of course you have to be able to knock the crown askew on those days when things just aren't quite right!!

 

Which means I need one with bee wings ( with a broken wing for those days when I don't quite fly right!!)

 

Buzz!!

 

Hehe.. A king, even on a tough day, remains a king, though he may momentarily lose his "kingly character".

 

I wish you happy buzzing!

[Listener]

I developed intense shame about sexuality during my teen years due to my religious upbringing. Even today, I always have a little feeling of guilt thinking about it, though fortunately not nearly as bad. Unfortunately, those years of guilt took quite a toll on my self esteem. I think the resulting self loathing is the main reason I've never had a relationship. Some people seem to get into relationship as an attempt to fix the problems in their life, I seem to think that I need to solve all my problems before I deserve to have a relationship. But often my problems only seem to be getting worse.

[JohnC]

Probably anyone who has followed my posts with even a half awareness for sometime would be able to realize that my marriage has been problematic, and that I have been uncomfortable with sexuality. I have recently come to a deeper personal realization that I guess seems pretty obvoius looking back.

I have spent a great deal of effort in the past couple years in my Qigong practices in trying to reduce or eliminate my sex drive (as unusual as this might seem to many). It seemed as long as I spent a lot of effort in trying to reduce it, not only was my sucess in doing so only limited at best, I was not able to progress beyond it. At the same time I had for a very long time been having serious relationship problems with my wife, yet because I did not want to be a cheater even if we were having problems I felt very uncomfortable with having a libido because its tendancy was to tempt me to do things that would have violated my conscience. So for a long while I thought the answer was to reduce my libdo.

What I have recently come to realize is that my approach to things was quite unnatural. Though it may seem obvious to others, the fact that a healthy libido is a normal, even healthy thing has been a recent re-discovery to me. I say re-discovery because before the years of relationship difficulties I did realize this, but as my relationship deteriorated this became lost to me. Not only was I trying to force myself to not have a sex drive which in reality is normal, I was forcing myself to love someone that I did not love which is also not natural or healthy.

When we first got married I loved my wife more than anyone can imagine, but after that, after years of her breaking my heart with constant hurting words, and cruel behavior it seems that my heart was irrepriably broken towards her. Yet just because I had a broken heart towards her did not mean that the normal functions of my heart and libido ceased to function. It was after that she broke my heart that I found it increasingly difficult to want to remain faithful to her, and I also found myself having to "fight off" more and more feelings of attraction to others. Yet because we were still in a marriage, at least the in the technical sense of the word, I felt exceedingly guilty for such desires, though now I realize that such desires were actually the natural and healthy reaction of my body, and trying to force something against nature was the unhealthy thing to do.

I am now at a point where now that I am being more honest with myself I wonder if there is anyway to work things out in a way that would be a true solution with her, or if doing so would still be trying to force things against nature?

I have seen several other posts by people on this forum (mainly guys) who for various reasons also seem to feel uncomfortable with having a libido. But after now having become more honest with myself I wonder if for the other guys who feel uncomfortable with having a sex drive that the problem may very well not be the sex drive at all, but rather have a more emotion based explination. For someone in my situation the issue was not really sex drive, but a moral dilema of trying to force myself to be in a love-less relationship. I've seen other guys who seem frustrated in their abilities to find a mate. Again in this situation I do not feel that the solution is eliminating the sex drive, but discovering what it is within that produces such a difficulty. If it is a self-esteem issue then work on your self esteem, don't try to suppress what is a natural expression of your body. If you somehow feel that sex is dirty or bad, then find out why you feel that way and remove that blockage from your life, deal with your guilt and shame issues.

I realize that Buddhist monks live celibate lives, but for one most people are not monks, and two I'm not exactely sure why they do that, and further more am not sure if that is the best way to do it, or even necessary at all (maybe it is, but I don't get it).

I guess the key issue out of all of this is if you feel a way that does not seem to be in alignment with nature, then don't create more blockages in your life by going against nature; rather find out what it is that is keeping you from following the path of nature and correct it.

 

I wonder if for the other guys who feel uncomfortable with having a sex drive that the problem may very well not be the sex drive at all, but rather have a more emotion based explination.

 

This.

 

Basically bud I hear that, she hurt you, so you became passive aggressive in a way that could hurt her (Fine, since your not safe I'll get my needs met elswhere!). You also didn't feel safe with her, or able to be vulnerable in sharing your sexuality. This can pile up.

 

So what was originally very loving slowly gets toxic, because of held resentment, and pain.

 

Then two since you start reacting to her hurting you in a past pattern kind of way where you look to other women as an outlet rather than your current one, you saw two options it sounds like. 1 Demonize your sex drive (demonize yourself), or 2. Demonize her ( cheat, which would mean breaking a bunch of morals and potentially the relationship).

 

You decided on number 1.

 

The issue though is not your sex drive, it's that you feel bad about wanting other women( sounds like shame), and it's that your relationship has unresolved shit in it, that needs to be acknowledged and you need to take a look at.

 

I recommend the authentic man program.... and if you have the money go take one of their intensives. It'll change things in a massive way, and for the better.

 

You could also read Nonviolent communication, and radical honesty to start opening up the channels between you and your girl.

 

John