BOLD STATEMENTS

[9th]

[Cat Pillar]

I'm confused by the title and content of the thread, there seems to be a contextual jump...or I'm just missing something, one or the other.

 

Hmm...contemplating that, I had these thoughts: The more we become attached to our daydreams/non-fulfillment cycles, the further we get away from the natural fulfillment of genuine experiencing. The longer we are away from this fulfillment, the more we forget about it. If we stay in the cycle for really long periods of time, we start to forget about the natural joy that was there to begin with. If we forget about it long enough, we lose our way back to it, and meditation is a tool to find our way back to that place.

[9th]

I'm confused by the title and content of the thread, there seems to be a contextual jump...or I'm just missing something, one or the other.

 

 

Its a reference to the "internal dialog" which is not always acted upon, but rather spreads like a virus across our lives and affects us anyway. In christian terms it is said that "out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks". Most people refer to it as "thinking", but I would rather call it daydreaming. Its one of the reasons why people talk about "awakening", so they may arise from this unconsciousness.

[Edward M]

9th, interesting posts you have here. What would be your remedy for this problem...especially for a christian inclined person whop has a big problem with switching off daydreaming (default mode in brain)...

 

I find the notion of a overflowing of the heart to be quite an astute one.... would this point to the passions of the heart remaining unleashed and not under our control?

 

Thanks!!

 

Ed

[Cat Pillar]

Its a reference to the "internal dialog" which is not always acted upon, but rather spreads like a virus across our lives and affects us anyway. In christian terms it is said that "out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks". Most people refer to it as "thinking", but I would rather call it daydreaming. Its one of the reasons why people talk about "awakening", so they may arise from this unconsciousness.

 

Thank you for explaining it to me.

 

Do you think that focusing attention on the space between thoughts would be a fruitful way to cultivate the undifferentiated experience you mentioned?

[9th]

Thank you for explaining it to me.

 

Do you think that focusing attention on the space between thoughts would be a fruitful way to cultivate the undifferentiated experience you mentioned?

 

 

Not specifically, but possibly indirectly - the technique you mention here may be based on the type of concentration which is essentially an act of suppression. It depends on where the focus is and whether you allow thoughts or not. If you are discarding all thoughts and cultivating silence, or if you are avoiding them in favor of the space between, then that is suppression, or condensation. It is not "bad" or "good", but it is not "undifferentiated" either. In fact its the opposite - its focus, concentration - and eventually it can reach a laser-like intensity and various experiences of absorption are possible. Paradoxically, (some might say) its usually something that must be developed at least moderately before one can move on to the undifferentiated, which is not suppressed or condensed but rather diffused.

 

The original post recommends recognition of the nature of thought to allow you the understanding which will bypass the effects of thought on the "thinking" process, effects which tend to obscure the emotional and sensory content involved and keep it running endlessly, in an auto-pilot mode. Remembering this understanding and putting it into practice is the process of realizing the undifferentiated origin of all the energy lost by this endless "thinking" or daydreaming process.

 

Pure suppression is only a temporary fix. Untangling the root is another matter.

[Aaron]

Let me just recommend that the more one tries to stop "daydreaming" the more one is inclined to pay attention to how much they "daydream". The easiest way to stop is to simply redirect your mind to something autonomous, such as breathing. Now the only issue at hand is why "daydreaming" is such a bad thing. I think one needs first understand that nothing is bad or good, rather it is only our definition that makes it such. The idea that one can or will ever be able to cut out "daydreaming" altogether is not only silly, but would seem improbable. If one was able to do this, then they would cease to be a participant in this world and rather be a fixture.

 

A greater understanding of one's existence is not contingent on "daydreaming" or one's ability to not "daydream" but rather the particular awareness that arises when one is able to still their mind. Even that is not enough, there is more, but it's a start. The nice thing about being able to stop "daydreaming" is that one begins to understand the true nature of their "daydreams" and the value of those "daydreams" and what makes up those "daydreams" is ultimately realized.

 

Aaron

[Spectrum]

Read the sighns, ignore the signposts.

[Otis]

I think one needs first understand that nothing is bad or good, rather it is only our definition that makes it such. The idea that one can or will ever be able to cut out "daydreaming" altogether is not only silly, but would seem improbable.

Good point. Just because we have a facility whose over-use is destructive, does not mean that the facility doesn't serve a positive use.

 

For a while, I was starting to see thoughts, daydreams and projections as being somehow wrong, or anti-Zen. But then I realized: they are all extremely useful tools, that have no substitutes.

 

Daydreaming is how Einstein imagined the point of view of a photon. It's how writers get into their characters' heads. It's what a film director does before he storyboards. It's how we plot out a new direction, when the old road is blocked. It's the only way we can take the "long view", instead of just being stimulus/response.

 

Projection (a form of daydreaming), likewise, can go both ways. If I project into a future conversation, it's true that I run the risk of over-thinking it, or committing myself too heavily down the wrong path. But the problem is not with the projection itself, for that can be very useful. Using projection, I can figure out the inoffensive way of phrasing something, or pay attention to what the other person will probably need in the conversation, so I'm not just entering into it with my own agenda.

 

As long as I don't mistake my projection for the person themselves, or my daydream for reality itself, then I don't see the harm in either.

Edited January 17, 2011 by Otis