sexlessness in Japan / in marriage

[gendao]

FOr me groping women on the subway is an indication that a man is totally out of sync with womens sexuality (and his own) and is unlikely to be able to please the women he has sex with very much.

So, if groping indicates that a man is totally out of sync with women's sexuality (and his own) and is unlikely to be able to please the women he has sex with very much - then does rape indicate this to an even much higher degree?

 

So seeing as how Black & White countries lead the world in rapes...with Asian & Muslim countries at the bottom - which cultures are thus actually "more in sync" with women's sexuality?

 

Not to mention, why is child molestation also about 10X higher in North America than say...Taiwan?

In North America, for example, approximately 15% to 25% of women and 5% to 15% of men were sexually abused when they were children.

 

In one survey, 2.5% of Taiwanese adolescents report having experienced childhood sexual abuse.

What does it say about your own sexual prowess and ability to satisfy grown women when you must rape your own defenseless children instead?

 

 

^ I'm just playing Devil's Advocate, Ninpo. You probably should be asking markern that question.

Edited January 24, 2011 by vortex

[Aaron]

So, if groping indicates that a man is totally out of sync with women's sexuality (and his own) and is unlikely to be able to please the women he has sex with very much - then does rape indicate this to an even much higher degree?

 

So seeing as how Black & White countries lead the world in rapes...with Asian & Muslim countries at the bottom - which cultures are thus actually "more in sync" with women's sexuality?

 

Not to mention, why is child molestation also about 10X higher in North America than say...Taiwan?What does it say about your own sexual prowess and ability to satisfy grown women when you must rape your own defenseless children instead?

 

 

^ I'm just playing Devil's Advocate, Ninpo. You probably should be asking markern that question.

 

Hello Vortex,

 

Those statistics are not accurate. They've done numerous surveys and found different numbers each time, no one really knows the exact numbers. What I do know is that the more repressed a country is sexually, the more deviance from the norm there seems to be. There's a reason that Shota and Lolita hentai are a billion dollar industry in Japan. Also keep in mind that if you report being raped in many Muslim countries you are stoned for adultery.

 

The system in many Asian countries is set up to discourage reporting the crime. If you do report being raped, then everyone will find out and you will lose a lot of face. In many countries people still believe that the victim encouraged it, either by acting provocatively or dressing in a provocative manner. Rarely are the victims left without some blame.

 

I would urge people not to worry about numbers and comparisons, but rather about being aware of the facts and being vocal about change.

 

Aaron

 

edit- I was talking with a friend of mine that works with a Gang Taskforce. He went to Thailand to do a lecture. Some of the officers that he spoke to there talked to him about the sex industry there. He said that there is an entire district in Bangkok that can only be accessed by Japanese businessmen and that the majority of the prostitutes there are children (under the age of 15). Over a million Japanese visit this district each year, yet very few people actually know that it exists, because no one talks about it.

Edited January 24, 2011 by Twinner

[gendao]

Those statistics are not accurate. They've done numerous surveys and found different numbers each time, no one really knows the exact numbers. What I do know is that the more repressed a country is sexually, the more deviance from the norm there seems to be. There's a reason that Shota and Lolita hentai are a billion dollar industry in Japan. Also keep in mind that if you report being raped in many Muslim countries you are stoned for adultery.

 

The system in many Asian countries is set up to discourage reporting the crime. If you do report being raped, then everyone will find out and you will lose a lot of face. In many countries people still believe that the victim encouraged it, either by acting provocatively or dressing in a provocative manner. Rarely are the victims left without some blame.

 

I would urge people not to worry about numbers and comparisons, but rather about being aware of the facts and being vocal about change.

Lol, in lieu of solid evidence of your own, you cannot prove that those stats are not (or are) accurate. All you can say is that you suspect they might not be that accurate or skewed*.

 

But yet, this whole thread was STARTED by stats...and other stats were continually brought up in this thread to make other points...yet only NOW do you claim that THESE stats are not accurate?

 

Why suddenly now? Only because now do they contradict your own confirmation bias? Which is all every guy in this thread has done so far. When the stat "supports" his pre-existing belief - he wholeheartedly accepts it. When it doesn't, then he claims that the stat must be inaccurate in some way. But never does he dare question his own underlying belief, lol.

 

 

 

* And I would agree that most sex stats are likely skewed because it is a sensitive topic. However, I think anecdotally, those relative rankings on rape and child molestation are still likely fairly accurate - relatively-speaking. There is no DOUBT that you stand a FAR higher chance of getting raped in South Africa than Japan, for instance. NO QUESTION.

That's why the anti-rape condom with teeth was invented in South Africa - out of sheer necessity there (not overinflated stats).

 

But hey, if it makes you feel better to point out that women get groped in Japan instead of raped or molested as children here...so be it.

Edited January 24, 2011 by vortex

[Aaron]

Hello Vortex,

 

I never made a comment in this thread until my last post, so I'm not sure what you're talking about. I don't like statistics. I think in the eyes of the religious all men are perverts. I am not saying anyone is worse than anyone else, but rather that saying that one race is more prone to child rape than another is not only bigoted, but also ignorant. Rather than defend the Japanese by saying, "well they're not as perverted as those people." Why don't you try and come up with a valid argument, instead of trying to shift the blame in such a loathsome and infantile way.

 

Aaron

 

edit- Keep in mind that when people read the posts you've made in this thread, what they're coming way with is an image of you as a racist and bigot. You've said that blacks weren't as intelligent as Asians. alluded to the idea that whites and blacks were more sexually immoral than Asians. I'm really appalled at your comparisons. I was trying to say it nicely, but that didn't work, so now, in the spirit of compassion, I am chastising you in the hopes that it might shock some sense into you.

Edited January 24, 2011 by Twinner

[gendao]

I never made a comment in this thread until my last post, so I'm not sure what you're talking about. I don't like statistics. I think in the eyes of the religious all men are perverts. I am not saying anyone is worse than anyone else, but rather that saying that one race is more prone to child rape than another is not only bigoted, but also ignorant. Rather than defend the Japanese by saying, "well they're not as perverted as those people." Why don't you try and come up with a valid argument, rather than try to shift blame in such a loathsome and infantile way.

 

Aaron

Lol, so saying that saying that one race is more prone to child rape than another is not only bigoted, but also ignorant. But to say that Japanese are more prone to sexlessness, groping, Shota and Lolita hentai & young Thai hookers is...not?

 

And stats that prove the former - "must be wrong." But stats or rumors that prove the latter - are perfectly valid?

 

Look, I'm not trying to defend the Japanese per se. I'm just highlighting all the ridiculous confirmation bias and hypocrisy in this thread - and offering a broader cultural perspective.

Edited January 24, 2011 by vortex

[Aaron]

Lol, so saying that saying that one race is more prone to child rape than another is not only bigoted, but also ignorant. But to say that Japanese are more prone to sexlessness, groping, Shota and Lolita hentai & young Thai hookers is...not?

 

And stats that prove the former - "must be wrong." But stats or rumors that prove the latter - are perfectly valid?

 

Look, I'm not trying to defend the Japanese per se. I'm just highlighting all the ridiculous confirmation bias and hypocrisy in this thread - and offering a broader cultural perspective.

 

Hello Vortex,

 

I never said the Japanese were more prone to anything, but rather they were equally guilty of it. The only reason women don't get groped on trains in Los Angeles is because gropers would spend five years in jail and have to register as sex offenders if they got caught. What you're doing is not offering a broader cultural perspective, but rather using shock value as a means to perpetuate your argument. The fact is men are sexual beings and the more sex is repressed socially the more likely someone from that culture will end up deviating from the norm.

 

The fact is a lot of japanese marriages are not marriages of love, but rather convenience. The important thing to the mother and father, is not that they love each other, but rather that they raise children that will be successful. This is the same thing that occurs in many Asian cultures. There's nothing wrong with this, in fact I think it's honorable that parents would put their children's needs before their own, that they would view the institution as more than an emotional contract, but a serious relationship between two people, rather than base it's value solely on emotional compatibility.

 

If we really want to explore this apparent sexlessness, then it goes much deeper than just sexual repression, but also touches on the moral and emotional repression, social repression.

 

Perhaps, rather than quote random facts that have very little to do with the conversation at hand, you could actually try to examine the topic in depth. Right now you're doing a very poor job of defending anyone, rather you're just pissing off a lot of people.

 

Aaron

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

^ I'm just playing Devil's Advocate, Ninpo. You probably should be asking markern that question.

 

Oh fair enough.

 

Naughty Markern, I've not noticed that.

[markern]

So, if groping indicates that a man is totally out of sync with women's sexuality (and his own) and is unlikely to be able to please the women he has sex with very much - then does rape indicate this to an even much higher degree?

 

So seeing as how Black & White countries lead the world in rapes...with Asian & Muslim countries at the bottom - which cultures are thus actually "more in sync" with women's sexuality?

 

Not to mention, why is child molestation also about 10X higher in North America than say...Taiwan?What does it say about your own sexual prowess and ability to satisfy grown women when you must rape your own defenseless children instead?

 

 

^ I'm just playing Devil's Advocate, Ninpo. You probably should be asking markern that question.

 

Well take a look at rape and child molestation statistics from the west 80 years ago or a 120 years ago and compare them to today. It would look as if it had skyrocketed. Almost as if it did not exist before. But we know thats not true. It is just that now it is reported whereas before it was not. Think about chatlolic priests. IN the 60s almost no one was reported. Today they are reported for things they did IN THE 60s and today. I read an article about sexual abuse in Japaneese schools with interviews with students, teachers and therpists etc. THey asid it was rampant, almost expeted that a male teacher wold prey on his teenage students and that reporting it was almost unthinkable for the students because of the shame involved. So i have no, as in absolute zero, faith in the numbers for sexual abuse in Japan being lower than in the west. Especially once you add in the high usage of prostitution because it means men are "trained" in having sex in a context with unhealthy boundaries and as such are much less likely to be able to feel that they are overstepping a womans boundaries in other contexts were they are perhaps pushing, pressuring or forcing someone. I also read a statistic that said over 90% (or was it 95%) of thai men had sex with prostitutes and were highly likely to loose their virginity with a prostitute. Again I would argue that this creates men that are much more likely to commit sexual abuse against other women as their sense of intimate boundaries are numbed and so they start loosing the sense of what they are doing means to a girl.

 

Actually in norway, and I suspect many otehr western countries muslims are at the top of the rape statistics. As in five times or so more likely to commit rape. The attitude against women I have found in muslim men that are first generation immigrants to the west I find appaling. They generally see hitting their wife as a legitimate form of diciplining her. THis is not my stereotype this is what they TELL me themselves. The attitudes towards women with regards to sex also frequently are along the lines of if she dressing like a slut she is asking for it s help yourself. I don`t see this as in any way a necessarry consequence of being a muslim but it is a typical attitude.

[gendao]

Again, my intentional point here is to illustrate how racist confirmation bias results in inconsistent reasoning and double standards.

 

This manifests in a number of ways:

 

- Focusing only on the negative stereotypes of a certain group, while denying all their positive stereotypes or negative stereotypes of any other groups.

 

I.e. - To say that Japanese or Asian men are sexually incompetent and deviant here is perfectly acceptable. But to similarly stereotype any other group...suddenly makes you a racist and bigot?

 

- Accepting only stats that confirm your bias, while rejecting any that don't.

 

I.e. - "Sexual repression & shame" in Asian culture causes "underreporting" of sex crimes there. However, this same "sexual repression & shame" would somehow not also cause underreporting of consensual sex?

 

- Claiming "equality" selectively to fit your unequal bias.

 

I.e. - When it comes to your own faults - you claim that, "We're all equally the same, kumbaya!" But when it comes to the perceived faults of the group that you are biased against, then this equality mantra magically no longer applies anymore. "Japanese & Muslim men really are pervier than everyone else!" "We might rape & molest, but at least we don't grope!" "Asian spouses don't really luurrve each other like we do!" (Hilarious coming from a country with a 50% divorce rate. ) *insert more stereotypes about how better you are than everyone else here*

 

 

Anyhow, if you're going to be "racist," at least try to be fairly consistent about it. That is all.

Edited January 24, 2011 by vortex

[Enishi]

 

 

I.e. - To say that Japanese or Asian men are sexually incompetent and deviant here is perfectly acceptable. But to similarly stereotype any other group...suddenly makes you a racist and bigot?

 

 

 

 

Indeed. I notice all too frequently in discussions like this that ideals of tolerance and equality are applied in a partial, preferential manner.

 

Also notice the gynocentric western tendency of assuming the problems in this case are entirely the fault of "those pervy Asian men", without stopping to question whether the actions of Japanese females might in some manner be turning off the men or contributing to the problem in other ways. These sorts of things tend to be far more complex and interconnected than the simple good group vs bad group dichotomy which it gets portrayed as.

[Apech]

*** Moderation reminder ***

 

To all posters on this thread, these are the guidelines:

 

Causes for moderation action:

 

* Making personal insults of other members

* Stalking and unduly harassing other members

* Profanity and vulgar language

* Threatening other members in any way

* Discrimination whether based on gender, race, religion, culture or creed

* Posting images that would be deemed offensive to the general public

* Unwarranted spam

* Links to malicious websites

* Links to websites that would violate these guidelines

* Illegal content (ie: links to download copyright software)

* Content that jeopardizes someone's privacy in an unsafe way or is otherwise dangerous to their safety

* Excessively and deliberately hijacking threads

* Overtly and incessantly trying to convert others (will be considered as spamming)

 

 

Discrimination is not ok whatever your personal beliefs or intent. Please avoid generalizations based on race which suggest inferiority and so on.

 

Thank you.

 

*** Mod Apech ***

[Aaron]

Anyhow, if you're going to be "racist," at least try to be fairly consistent about it. That is all.

 

Hello Vortex,

 

When you point a finger at someone else, four more point back at you. In this case that's true. You're every bit as guilty of the racism and bigotry in this thread as anyone else. Rather than continue to defend yourself under the pretense that it was an example, accept your portion of the blame and move on. Perhaps this discussion deserves a bit of a rest, so that we can all get a clear idea of what the topic is actually about.

 

Aaron

[Mal]

Again, my intentional point here is to illustrate how racist confirmation bias results in inconsistent reasoning and double standards.

 

Having started out with that, rather than "Yes! I've also read ..." might have avoided some confusion

 

A scone is an apology for a cake.

 

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

 

 

 

Those are some of the ugliest scones I've ever seen in my life. Looks aren't everything, but seriously!

 

 

I suggest the moderation rules should be changed to the following, which are more in line with todays current trends:

 

Causes for moderation action:

 

* Making personal insults of other members cakes

* Stalking and unduly harassing other members for recipes

* Profanity and vulgar language when discussing baking(in particular, cakes)

* Threatening other members cakes in any way

* Discrimination whether based on gender, race, religion, culture or cakes

* Posting images of cakes that would be deemed offensive to the general public (i.e. Mals scones)

* Unwarranted spam & cake

* Links to malicious biscuits

* Links to websites that would violate these guidelines (i.e. http://www.recipes4cakes.com/ )

* Illegal content (ie: undercooked cakes)

* Content that jeopardizes someone's jam rolly polley.

* Excessively and deliberately hijacking someones gateau

* Overtly and incessantly trying to convert others to biscuits as opposed to cakes (any one who tries this will be moved to 'cake corner' forthwith)

[Apech]

Those are some of the ugliest scones I've ever seen in my life. Looks aren't everything, but seriously!

 

 

I suggest the moderation rules should be changed to the following, which are more in line with todays current trends:

 

Causes for moderation action:

 

* Making personal insults of other members cakes

* Stalking and unduly harassing other members for recipes

* Profanity and vulgar language when discussing baking(in particular, cakes)

* Threatening other members cakes in any way

* Discrimination whether based on gender, race, religion, culture or cakes

* Posting images of cakes that would be deemed offensive to the general public (i.e. Mals scones)

* Unwarranted spam & cake

* Links to malicious biscuits

* Links to websites that would violate these guidelines (i.e. http://www.recipes4cakes.com/ )

* Illegal content (ie: undercooked cakes)

* Content that jeopardizes someone's jam rolly polley.

* Excessively and deliberately hijacking someones gateau

* Overtly and incessantly trying to convert others to biscuits as opposed to cakes (any one who tries this will be moved to 'cake corner' forthwith)

 

Ninpo,

 

Don't think that we have not considered these moderation options. Offense against a jam rolly polley is clearly a crime against all puddings in general. I believe this has been discussed in the International Court of Baking Rights and is actually law punishable by immersion in Angel Delight (or other blanc mange type product.)

[Birch]

"Angel Delight"

 

Stop trying to convert me

[Aaron]

I prefer cornbread. It's not a cake, nor a biscuit.

 

Aaron

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

I prefer cornbread. It's not a cake, nor a biscuit.

 

Aaron

 

Don't worry, if you sprinkle a bit of sugar on top no one will know the difference or think any the less of you.

[Mal]

I suggest the moderation rules should be changed to the following, which are more in line with todays current trends:

 

Causes for moderation action:

* Making personal insults of other members cakes

 

Those are some of the ugliest scones I've ever seen in my life. Looks aren't everything, but seriously!

 

Dude you are gone already At least I didn't have to photoshop it myself like a certain graph I could mention

 

* Posting images of cakes that would be deemed offensive to the general public (i.e. Mals scones)

 

the search query "funny scones" didn't give me a lot to chose from guess I should have went with

 

or perhaps

 

 

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

 

Dude you are gone already

 

 

ya, that's why I created that rule, because although I knew I had done so, I still knew it was just plain wrong to insult anothers' cakes!

 

I shall be banning myself from baking for one week.

 

 

At least I didn't have to photoshop it myself like a certain graph I could mention

 

 

AH HAHAHA!! Well, that's where you are wrong!! It was powerpoint not photoshop..... I should imagine...not that I'd know because it was downloaded from a specialist survey site that no one knows about except me, that's how popular and respected the site is.

[Listener]

I'm curious to know how much of the situation in Japan is caused by long term culture, how much by industrialization and modern business and how much by the intersection of those two things.

 

As mentioned in the original article there is not just a lower frequency, but also seems to be a higher percentage of those who have no sexual experience at all. Japan has special words like otaku and hikikomori for these types of people.

 

Japan seems to be the most extreme, but I think many of its problems are mirrored to a lesser degree in many other societies. The explosion of pornography I think is one of the strongest indications of lack of sexual satisfaction. It was that lack of satisfaction, not new technology or relaxed standards that allowed its growth.

 

Still, even 17 times a year would be an absolutely tremendous increase for me.

 

My own upbringing was a sort of puritan inspired, emphasis on absolutely no sex outside of marriage, to the point where I saw it as perhaps the greatest sin imaginable, but without an emphasis on getting married, indeed with no guidance whatsoever with regard to attracting women.

[NeiChuan]

Having started out with that, rather than "Yes! I've also read ..." might have avoided some confusion

 

 

 

 

Mal, you made my day haha