Respecting Taoism?

[MrLoony]

I was talking with my girlfriend (have I told you about my girlfriend? I totally have a girlfriend. ) a few days ago, and she worries that, because she doesn't respect my beliefs, that extends to me as well. She doesn't know much about Taoism, but I don't think learning about it would change anything.

 

The thing is, though... I've never thought of Taoism as a religion that demanded respect. I've always thought of that as one of the aspects of life that people WANT, but is, in fact, unnecessary and potentially damaging to one's spiritual well-being.

 

I was wondering what your thoughts are in terms of respecting Taoism. Any thoughts on the matter will be helpful. Please don't tell me to dump my girlfriend or to get her to respect Taoism. That's really the only thing I ask. All I want is general thoughts on respecting Taoism.

 

Edit: Please... All I want to know is your opinion on respecting Taoism. I'm not looking for relationship advice.

Edited January 19, 2011 by MrLoony

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Respect. Taoism. Always.

[mYTHmAKER]

I was talking with my girlfriend (have I told you about my girlfriend? I totally have a girlfriend. ) a few days ago, and she worries that, because she doesn't respect my beliefs, that extends to me as well. She doesn't know much about Taoism, but I don't think learning about it would change anything.

 

 

Forget respecting the Tao.

Respecting you is where it is at ( to quote someone )

How can she worry that because she doesn't respect your beliefs it extends to you as well.

What's to worry either you respect someone or you don't.

How old are you

I feel like dear Abbey or maybe Dan Savage.

[Aaron]

Forget respecting the Tao.

Respecting you is where it is at ( to quote someone )

How can she worry that because she doesn't respect your beliefs it extends to you as well.

What's to worry either you respect someone or you don't.

How old are you

I feel like dear Abbey or maybe Dan Savage.

 

Hello Mythmaker,

 

I would say his age has no bearing on this conversation, nor do you prove your point well by doing the same thing you seem to be admonishing. I understand you mean well, but perhaps approaching it with the idea of explaining the facts, rather than placing blame would be more beneficial.

 

Aaron

[Aaron]

I was talking with my girlfriend (have I told you about my girlfriend? I totally have a girlfriend. ) a few days ago, and she worries that, because she doesn't respect my beliefs, that extends to me as well. She doesn't know much about Taoism, but I don't think learning about it would change anything.

 

The thing is, though... I've never thought of Taoism as a religion that demanded respect. I've always thought of that as one of the aspects of life that people WANT, but is, in fact, unnecessary and potentially damaging to one's spiritual well-being.

 

I was wondering what your thoughts are in terms of respecting Taoism. Any thoughts on the matter will be helpful. Please don't tell me to dump my girlfriend or to get her to respect Taoism. That's really the only thing I ask. All I want is general thoughts on respecting Taoism.

 

Hello MrLoony,

 

I think the issue here shouldn't be about respect at all. One doesn't need to believe in something someone else does in order for them to be in a relationship. I have friends that are catholic, jewish, muslim, buddhist, and new agers. I don't necessarily believe in these other religions, but I am still friends with these people because I like them as individuals.

 

My brother is an atheist. He doesn't believe in Taoism and has said that he doesn't want to talk about it. I don't talk about it with him. There's no need to, nor is there any need for him to believe in Taoism. I could care less if he or my friends respect Taoism, rather I care if they respect me.

 

Perhaps what you should address is whether she loves and you love her. If you both do, then the issue of Taoism doesn't matter, what matters is what you feel for each other in your hearts.

 

Aaron

Edited January 19, 2011 by Twinner

[ben]

I don't care about respect, just don't like tired cliches. Taoism can not be understood with exploring China and its early history. Tao Te Ching is not a Sutra for eternalism, its very subversive text. Part manifesto and part rebellious wisdom. Empty the head fill the abdomen.

[sifusufi]

I believe through work (practice) we achieve improvement which allows for greater self respect and respect from others.

 

This has been my experience.

But remember balance, I have pushed too hard or neglected to practice and ended up regressing.

 

May you have success beyond that you have wished for yourself

[MrLoony]

Perhaps what you should address is whether she loves and you love her. If you both do, then the issue of Taoism doesn't matter, what matters is what you feel for each other in your hearts.

 

Well, yes. She does and I do. She just worries about the issue of respect... which brings be back to my questions:

 

Does Taoism demand respect? How does Taoism relate to respect?

[Cloudhand]

My friend her not respecting the Tao is fine, that go's with Tao, my mentors Gia Fu Feng and Allan Watts always said; its all Tao so we can't say one is right and one is wrong. That would be wrong to Tao. So go with it she will come around. Move Slowly, Cloud

[Immortal4life]

Project energy, poise, charisma, personality, fun, excitement, power, control, and intelligence. Show her you are awesome, and by default so must Taoism be.

Edited January 19, 2011 by Immortal4life

[MrLoony]

Project energy, poise, charisma, personality, fun, excitement, power, control, and intelligence. Show her you are awesome, and by default so must Taoism be.

 

Actually, if she brings it up again, I'm going to point this out. She assumes that the respect must flow negatively (a lack of respect for Taoism flowing into a lack of respect for me), but it seems to me that it should flow positively (respect for me flowing into respect for Taoism). I have other points about it, though. I don't need help with how to talk to my girlfriend. That was just background. I really want to know: To you, does Taoism demand respect?

[Marblehead]

Hi Mr Loony,

 

There have been some nice comments to your question.

 

I don't think that there is a need for your girlfriend to respect your belief in Taoist Philosophy (or even Religion). I think the only requirement is that she accept the fact that it is your belief.

 

Now, if she is trying to change you and your beliefs then that would be a problem.

 

At their roots, all is Tao. So her beliefs are also within the realm of Taoism.

 

If the two of you talk a lot about philosophy and religion I might suggest that you get out more and experience life and even spend more time in bed.

 

I can't recall ever requesting or expecting anyone to respect my beliefs. I simple state what my belief system is (if the subject comes up) and leave it at that unles they have questions concerning it.

 

I think that if we live our belief system (Taoism) and not talk so much about it most others will see the value in it.

 

Best Wishes to the two of you.

[Immortal4life]

I believe you are the physcial outgrowth of your philosophies and spiritual beliefs. Yes, be an embodiment of what you want to be. If you live a balanced life in harmony with the universe, full of energy, intelligence, and enthusiasm, then respect, admiration, and attraction, should come to you naturally.

[King Kabalabhati]

Tao is lovely.. It doesn't demand respect, or enything for that matter.

 

But if a woman, after seeing me practice the Tao for a longer time, still thinks it doesn't work, it's time to either start practicing properly or to find a woman who likes to keep her eyes open.

[fiveelementtao]

Sometimes people talk circuitously. IME, especially those we are in a romantic relationship with. IME, sometimes those of the feminine persuasion...

 

So, perhaps listen not to what she is saying but to what she is NOT saying...

i.e. "since you are Taoist and I am not, I am worried that you do not respect MY beliefs."

 

My wife is not Taoist or (in my most recent expression) Teutonic Shaman. She just has a very simple and profound belief in Spirit. However, earlier in our relationship, my intense devotion to qigong, yoga and meditation was very threatening to her because she didn't relate to any of that stuff... I was reactive to that and it caused a great deal of tension in our relationship. Now, we are OK with having similar but not EXACT beliefs.

 

Turn this around. It may not be about you and your beliefs. It may be about her. You might want to ask her about her beliefs. And then ask her if she feels you respect HER beliefs.

 

Sometimes women teach their partners by example. Unfortunately men are by nature problem solvers and react to words instead of feelings... Now that she has taught you how it feels when your partner doesn't respect your beliefs, turn it around and find out about her beliefs and give her the respect you would want. If I am wrong, it won't matter, it will be great training for your next girlfriend..

 

Just a thought...

[Jetsun]

Taoism to me is just the natural way of things so she probably does respect it already, or if she doesn't she will suffer as a result which will teach her to as a natural process.

[宁]

"Taoism" ???

Duh...

If you ask a thousand people about taoism, you will have a thousand opinions!

Take us, this forum, for example: we are still debating what IS taoism and what IS NOT.

 

SO, in order to respect anything, you first have to define it, no??

How did you define "Taoism" to her? What does she know about it?

[mYTHmAKER]

Hello Mythmaker,

 

I would say his age has no bearing on this conversation, nor do you prove your point well by doing the same thing you seem to be admonishing. I understand you mean well, but perhaps approaching it with the idea of explaining the facts, rather than placing blame would be more beneficial.

 

Aaron

 

Sorry but I do think age plays a role in the question asked.

I had no intention of disrespecting him.

I just don't understand how two people can be together without mutual respect.

You respect the other person and along with that comes trust.

Perhaps the question should have been " What should we bring the children up as ?"

[Immortal4life]

Edited January 19, 2011 by Immortal4life

[Immortal4life]

Taoism to me is just the natural way of things so she probably does respect it already, or if she doesn't she will suffer as a result which will teach her to as a natural process.

 

....and that's the bottom line.

[MrLoony]

"Taoism" ???

Duh...

If you ask a thousand people about taoism, you will have a thousand opinions!

Take us, this forum, for example: we are still debating what IS taoism and what IS NOT.

 

SO, in order to respect anything, you first have to define it, no??

How did you define "Taoism" to her? What does she know about it?

 

 

Sorry but I do think age plays a role in the question asked.

I had no intention of disrespecting him.

I just don't understand how two people can be together without mutual respect.

You respect the other person and along with that comes trust.

Perhaps the question should have been " What should we bring the children up as ?"

 

While I appreciate the fact that you are trying to help me, you must understand that I am not asking for advice in this particular situation. The reason for this (aside from the fact that I do not need advice) is two-fold: First, how can you know the situation if you have not lived it? Even living it, you may not understand the situation. Secondly, I was actually reading just a couple of weeks ago about the Golden Rule, and Chuang Tzu's take on it. What would be best for you in this particular situation is not best for me.

[mYTHmAKER]

While I appreciate the fact that you are trying to help me, you must understand that I am not asking for advice in this particular situation. The reason for this (aside from the fact that I do not need advice) is two-fold: First, how can you know the situation if you have not lived it? Even living it, you may not understand the situation. Secondly, I was actually reading just a couple of weeks ago about the Golden Rule, and Chuang Tzu's take on it. What would be best for you in this particular situation is not best for me.

 

You are absolutely right.

In answer to your specific question

Taoism is a religion to some, a philosophy to some and way of life to others

As to respect for Taoism - i respect it - believe in it as an explanation of the way the world works so I incorporate parts of it into my life.

There are, however, religions and philosophies that I do not respect ( They shall remain nameless)

Because i think they are silly, cruel, political etc. However, I have friends who I do respect irregardless of their belief system.

So perhaps your question should have left out all the girlfriend stuff and asked for thoughts regarding respecting Taoism. BTW asking this question on a Taoist forum one sorta knows what the answer will be.

[MrLoony]

So perhaps your question should have left out all the girlfriend stuff and asked for thoughts regarding respecting Taoism. BTW asking this question on a Taoist forum one sorta knows what the answer will be.

 

I said in my post that I wasn't looking for advice, and all I wanted was general views on respecting Taoism.

 

Also, the answer is not absolute just because this is a Taoist forum. As I've said, I don't feel that Taoism is a religion (or philosophy, or way of life) that demands respect. Half of the Chuang Tzu seems to be about him dismissing respect. In fact, one of my favorite parts of the Chuang Tzu seems to me to say pretty much exactly that:

 

Once, when Chuang Tzu was fishing in the P'u River, the king of Ch'u sent two officials to go and announce to him: "I would like to trouble you with the administration of my realm."

 

Chuang Tzu held on to the fishing pole and, without turning his head, said, "I have heard that there is a sacred tortoise in Ch'u that has been dead for three thousand years. The king keeps it wrapped in cloth and boxed, and stores it in the ancestral temple. Now would this tortoise rather be dead and have its bones left behind and honored? Or would it rather be alive and dragging its tail in the mud?"

 

"It would rather be alive and dragging its tail in the mud," said the two officials.

 

Chuang Tzu said, "Go away! I'll drag my tail in the mud!"

 

So I don't think that the answer is already determined by me asking it on a Taoist forum. I think some people would take that passage as not dismissing respect, not dismissing it entirely, or not dismissing it when referring to Taoism (specifically). I think there are others, like me, that would interpret that passage and others as being dismissive of respect. Furthermore, there are those that might not see any specific passage as being dismissive of respect, but, when the whole of the writings are taken, they might see them as being dismissive of respect.

[宁]

Chinese culture and civilization is VERY MUCH about respect.

Is one of the founding principles...

It is also part of the Daoist tradition!

 

You didn't pay attention to what I said:

just the definition of Daoism would have given you the answer you seek...

 

Moreover, you'll find out sooner or later that resonating on the spiritual level (common values) is to a couple as important as the emotional and physical aspect.

AND in time, it becomes more important than the latter.

But of course you're not interested in this, are you?

 

edit 'darn spells'

Edited January 20, 2011 by Little1

[三江源]

.... resonating on the spiritual level (common values) is to a couple as important as the emotional and physical aspect.

 

 

what he said.

 

Finding someone emotionally attractive is key to finding them physically attractive for longer than five minutes. And if you dont resonate with someone on a spiritual level it isnt possible to find them deeply attractive.

 

therefore not respecting your partners spiritual life is a serious obstacle to deep relating.

 

as to whether Taoism 'itself' demands respect... for me the question doesnt fit the situation. Taoism isnt authoritarian : it need not demand anything. So from that pov the answer is no.

 

But taoism is about authenticity, and if we dont respect authenticity, we are choosing what, instead?