Beliefs vs. Actions

[innerspace_cadet]

I'm starting to learn the hard way that beliefs not lived by or acted on have little value. For example, if I were a Christian, I could believe in being more Christlike, but if I came home from work and beat my wife and abused my kids I would be very far from being Christian, let alone living like Jesus.

 

Now don't get me wrong, I don't do any of those horrible things, but I'm coming to the realization that actions speak louder than beliefs.

 

Money is not discussed much on the TTB, but I realized today that frugality--which is what I'm striving for--is not some snap decision I make one day and live out for the rest of my life. It is a set of habits that I adopt that will take time to develop. Just like anything, it is a process.

 

Personally, I don't "believe" in much, other than non-attachment and the Tao. But I need to focus on PRACTICING those beliefs, rather than just saying that I believe them. By that I mean working to cultivate this microcosm of the universe that I inhabit.

 

Does anyone else feel the way I do?

[MrLoony]

I often say that, while I am Taoist, I'm not a very GOOD Taoist.

 

I believe in a certain ideal, but I'm not at that point yet. Of course, there are those who would argue that being at the ideal is not as great as working towards it.

[Marblehead]

Does anyone else feel the way I do?

 

Yep. I hold to the thought that if we are not living our beliefs we are indeed a hypocrite.

 

And I agree with you. Making positive changes in our life is a slow and difficult process.

 

The thing is, if we are not living our beliefs we are not going to be at peace with our self. And probably not at peace with others either.

 

So it is good that we adopt an honorable belief system and then try to attain the ideals of that system. We might not always live up to the ideals but as long as we are trying to better ourself I think that peace can be found.

[MrLoony]

I may have some difficulty in explaining this, so please forgive me if there's misunderstanding:

 

Marblehead, your post brought an interesting question to my mind:

 

As an example, I want to live up to my ideal. However, I'm not at that point yet, and so I am not at peace with myself. In effect, I am not happy because my want is going unfulfilled.

 

If I am without want, I will be happy.

 

Should I not want to live up to that ideal? It seems to me that being free of an ideal is an important step in meeting the ideal that Taoism sets forth.

[Marblehead]

I may have some difficulty in explaining this, so please forgive me if there's misunderstanding:

 

Marblehead, your post brought an interesting question to my mind:

 

As an example, I want to live up to my ideal. However, I'm not at that point yet, and so I am not at peace with myself. In effect, I am not happy because my want is going unfulfilled.

 

If I am without want, I will be happy.

 

Should I not want to live up to that ideal? It seems to me that being free of an ideal is an important step in meeting the ideal that Taoism sets forth.

 

WoW! You are getting down and dirty on me. Hehehe.

 

Excellent comment and question. I understand what you are saying and asking, I think.

 

First to ideals. They are like perfection. Sometime we attain perfection at a given function but this is rare, I might suggest. Same with ideals. Every now and then we attain one of our ideals.

 

But, because life is dynamic, things are in constant flux. Something happens and we digress from our ideal. And no, I am not at my ideal state all the time either.

 

So we do the best we can, right?

 

Now, you say "... I am not happy because my want is going unfulfilled."

 

Are you perhaps placing too high an expectation and demand on yourself?

 

There is nothing wrong with having wants. The important thing though is that our needs are satisfied. As I have mentioned elsewhere, everything beyond that is frosting on the cake.

 

And there is nothing wrong with not being able to attain all our wants. Remember, a Taoist is beyond success and failure. We do what we need do and accept the results, success or failure.

 

Yes, we should "try" to live up to our ideals. Note that I said "try". But you are right: To be free of ideals and live naturally and still be at peace with our Self is in itself an ideal.

 

But as long as we are being honest with ourself (and others) whether we succeed or fail should have no significant impact. When we fail the important thing is to learn from the lesson. To make a mistake is human; to constantly make the same mistake over and over again is silly.

 

I guess the important thing is that while we are striving (No, we shouldn't strive either. Hehehe.) for our ideal we should not forget to live. So go ahead, live!, and work toward your ideal. This is called your journey in life.

[Otis]

Personally, I don't "believe" in much, other than non-attachment and the Tao. But I need to focus on PRACTICING those beliefs, rather than just saying that I believe them. By that I mean working to cultivate this microcosm of the universe that I inhabit.

At the risk of taking your words too literally, I don't think you (or any of us) HAVE to do anything.

 

I think we're very lucky, those of us who have stumbled upon some form of the truth we're calling Taoism. And as a lucky person, we can either take advantage of the opportunity or not. IME, I'm happier and more fulfilled, when I live as cleanly and clearly as possible.

 

But there is zero obligation, or accountability. There is no duty to Taoism, or to act upon our beliefs. "Duty" is just an inner voice, not a real phenomenon. Taoism is just a gift, not a jealous God.

 

For me, the results are what sharpens and focuses my behavior. I experience how sweet life is, when I do not separate myself from it. And I know how alienated I have been from my life. That's enough to keep me practicing.

 

And by "practicing", I do not mean: "do what the Taoists would have me do", I mean simply making my life about living in that way. Practice doesn't have to be a method, a specific set of steps, or a list of things not to do, but just a way of approaching life, moment-by-moment.

[MrLoony]

I was thinking a few months ago about wants. I suppose there are two types of wants: One that you cannot be happy without (desires might be a better term for them) and ones that you work towards, but you don't mind either way. I don't like the "frosting on the cake" analogy because it implies that these wants would make your life better. As Confucius said, "He who seeks only coarse food to eat, water to drink and bent arm for pillow will without looking for it find happiness to boot." If you could have more happiness, then you aren't truly happy.

 

The main issue I have with the ideal thing is this:

 

A person of high virtue is not conscious of virtue

and therefore possesses Virtue.

A person of little virtue tries to be virtuous

and therefore lacks Virtue.

 

-Tao Te Ching, Chapter 38, Tolbert McCarroll translation

 

It really seems to me to be saying that the final step in becoming one with Virtue is to discard thoughts of Virtue.

[Jetsun]

At the risk of taking your words too literally, I don't think you (or any of us) HAVE to do anything.

 

 

Then the question is how to not do, I think I have only met a couple of people who are really good at doing nothing

[Otis]

At the risk of taking your words too literally, I don't think you (or any of us) HAVE to do anything.

Then the question is how to not do, I think I have only met a couple of people who are really good at doing nothing

Hmm.... I certainly didn't mean that "we shouldn't do anything". Just that there's no "should" about it, one way or the other.

[Spectrum]

Syncronize mind w action. Think THROUGH! Single actions speak louder farther deeper quicker higher lower slower and resolute than the analysis paralysis of subjectifying what everyone knows already.

[themaninthesuit]

I think you have to keep telling yourself the beliefs before you can finally inact them. Your mind has created a prison for you without you knowing it. Keep telling yourself to see it differently and you will. You have to free yourself from the things you have been taught. Then free yourself from that as well.

 

It really seems to me to be saying that the final step in becoming one with Virtue is to discard thoughts of Virtue.

 

If you forget what it means to be virtuous, then how can you not have virtue?