heaven chi Posted January 20, 2011 Hello, I have read the book by Master Nan - Huai Chin Tao and Longevity where he describes the physical effects of meditation and the movement of chi along the tu mai and jen mai. My question is: from your experience how long must one meditate for the chi to enter the head? I meditate for 45 minutes but I think it is not enough. When the chi enters the head don't you feel a calming of the mind? Or do you see visions? My second question is: For a beginner whose energy channels are not open, is it possible that although he meditates well, the energy is still flowing in the legs and doesn't come up the spine? Generally for serious meditation is 45 minutes enough? Thank you all Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
heaven chi Posted January 20, 2011 (edited) Let me clarify my question. I want to open the channels in the head. For that the chi must ascend to the head. So I ask: how long must one meditate for this to happen? 45 minutes? 2 hours? Is it possible to meditate for 45 minutes correctly and chi not reach the head because the lower channels are clogged? Does anyone have personal experience with sitting meditation? Edit: what do you mean chi is always flowing? In the 12 meridians? I mean in the tu mai and jen mai which are usually blocked, if I'm correct. Actually are the yin chiao and yang chiao mai connected to the tu mai? Thank you Edited January 20, 2011 by heaven chi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest sykkelpump Posted January 20, 2011 Hello, I have read the book by Master Nan - Huai Chin Tao and Longevity where he describes the physical effects of meditation and the movement of chi along the tu mai and jen mai. My question is: from your experience how long must one meditate for the chi to enter the head? I meditate for 45 minutes but I think it is not enough. When the chi enters the head don't you feel a calming of the mind? Or do you see visions? My second question is: For a beginner whose energy channels are not open, is it possible that although he meditates well, the energy is still flowing in the legs and doesn't come up the spine? Generally for serious meditation is 45 minutes enough? Thank you all nobody can tell you how long before your chi enters the head in such a way you feel it clearly.depends on your general health and the amount of practice.and off course you have to meditate correctly. on the second question,yes that is very well possible,but with moore practice the energy will move in the spine also.just keep on meditating. most importent is to practice 2 times a day min 20 min,every day to get a good progress. And also doing zhan zhuang is very good,and can speed things up.but if only doing one thing keep on meditating. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
heaven chi Posted January 20, 2011 (edited) nobody can tell you how long before your chi enters the head in such a way you feel it clearly.depends on your general health and the amount of practice.and off course you have to meditate correctly. on the second question,yes that is very well possible,but with moore practice the energy will move in the spine also.just keep on meditating. most importent is to practice 2 times a day min 20 min,every day to get a good progress. And also doing zhan zhuang is very good,and can speed things up.but if only doing one thing keep on meditating. Thanks sykkelpump. OK you're right there is no hard and fast time rule. But I've heard that if you meditate less than 45 minutes you don't make significant progress is that true? Edited January 20, 2011 by heaven chi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Riyue Posted January 20, 2011 (edited) Hello, ... My question is: from your experience how long must one meditate for the chi to enter the head? Qi follows attention... Qi is moving all the time .. if you are of good health - all channels are normally always open... your attention can influence qi flow... in speed and intensity this ability grows with qigong-practice... slowly over years - some have the ability spontaneously you can control this by the finger - test (your fingers will get longer when moving qi down to the finger tips...) It is a bad advice to look for Qi entering the head... Qi has to flow everywhere in a balanced way - then you will feel yourself balanced and comfortable. --- Having a qigong-practice of long years you will be able to move qi in an amplifying way in small and big circuit Speed of qi : you will have different descriptions... my practice is (in meditation): about 10 cm / s - or quicker or slowlier - when pushing a fist qi flow will be much more faster! Edited January 20, 2011 by Riyue Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phore Posted January 20, 2011 An advanced practitioner can do it in a few breaths. You should be able to trust your intuition to see how long it takes you. In my experience when i energize a part of my body it sot of lights up. There is usually tingleing, hot or cold, colors, pulses, and vortexes. Its very subtle. almost like a dream. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gendao Posted January 20, 2011 I dunno, I think my qi is just now starting to break through past my neck blockages after 1.5 years of daily meditation.. So, I'm thinking more in terms of months, not minutes... I'm not saying there was zero qi flow before, but I believe it was crimped. And I believe it is opening up & increasing now.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
heaven chi Posted January 20, 2011 I dunno, I think my qi is just now starting to break through past my neck blockages after 1.5 years of daily meditation.. So, I'm thinking more in terms of months, not minutes... I'm not saying there was zero qi flow before, but I believe it was crimped. And I believe it is opening up & increasing now.. Thank you for your input vortex. You answered very well exactly what I wanted to know. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeiChuan Posted January 20, 2011 Meditation is a quality over quantity game. For some ofcourse it may take 15 to 40 minutes just to ease up and get real work done.. But for a master compared to a novice, 5 minutes of a master's meditation does more work then 5 hours of a novice's meditation. Im convinced of this. Hope it helped. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
heaven chi Posted January 20, 2011 Meditation is a quality over quantity game. For some ofcourse it may take 15 to 40 minutes just to ease up and get real work done.. But for a master compared to a novice, 5 minutes of a master's meditation does more work then 5 hours of a novice's meditation. Im convinced of this. Hope it helped. Very good point. Which means a novice should practice more. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeiChuan Posted January 20, 2011 Very good point. Which means a novice should practice more. Be my guest.. but it's easy way to burn out and stop doing what you loved. Good point. And when you can bring that meditative quality into your life 24/7...Ahhhhh lol ooohhhh yes Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fiveelementtao Posted January 20, 2011 Do NOT try to move chi into your head! Talk to any medical chi kung practitioner to hear about horror stories of people getting energy stuck in their heads causing MAJOR health problems including insanity, constant splitting headaches, paranoia, hallucinations. There is nothing spiritual about moving chi into the head. It is not a drug. If you want to learn how to move energy into your upper centers you need to be learning directly from a teacher not from a book! Books are great auxiliary tools for those who already have a teacher they can run questions by. find a teacher if you want to learn advanced meditation... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aetherous Posted January 20, 2011 (edited) . Edited February 24, 2011 by center Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest sykkelpump Posted January 20, 2011 (edited) Thanks sykkelpump. OK you're right there is no hard and fast time rule. But I've heard that if you meditate less than 45 minutes you don't make significant progress is that true? I would say 2 times a day 20 minutes is enough to start with.You will probably increse the time automaticley when your meditation gets better.because it feel so nourishing and good.so if you can do 20 min 2 times every day it is a very good start Edited January 20, 2011 by sykkelpump Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest sykkelpump Posted January 20, 2011 Fiveelementtao is exactly right. I just spent a week and a half dealing with hallucinations, and I was on the brink of insanity. The paranoia is still there. This was due to practicing incorrectly and experimenting...resulting in too much energy in the head. Should have just followed my teacher's instructions, instead of playing around with things! Yes,but with normal meditation(quieting the mind) and without doing ANY forcing methods like Robert Bruce NEW or forcing open the mco or any other form of trying to direct chi with the mind.Then he should be fine without a teacher. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Birch Posted January 20, 2011 Yes,but with normal meditation(quieting the mind) and without doing ANY forcing methods like Robert Bruce NEW or forcing open the mco or any other form of trying to direct chi with the mind.Then he should be fine without a teacher. Sure, but the temptation to tinker and fiddle once you've got something going is IMO (and experience) pretty strong I have to be disciplined with that myself. The "why" of the undesired effects like Center mentions ought to be IMO explained (if people know the "why", of course). Practice itself will bring forward explanations but IMO it would be helpful to provide at least a model of understanding to students so that they can get a handle on their own practice sooner rather than later. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fiveelementtao Posted January 21, 2011 First, I must say that I too have read this book and I can say that "Tao and Longevity" is NOT a how to book for beginners in meditation and was not written to be used in this way. Anyone using this book as an instructional guide to Taoist meditation is using the book incorrectly. This should only be read for entertainment and educational purposes. If someone reads this book and is inspired to learn this tradition, they should seek out someone trained in this tradition of meditation otherwise you are wasting your time... There is no way anyone will learn the intricacies of this style of meditation on their own by reading this book. There are details about this type of meditation that are purposely not contained in the book. So, even if someone wants to use this book as a how to guide, they will not be able to replicate the types of scenarios talked about in this book. Outside of that...There is simply NO need nor is there any benefit from opening the centers in the head. Meditating on the higher centers without a thorough method and instruction will not lead to enlightenment of any kind. I understand why it is an attractive idea especially when one is getting their info from books. I was also this way in the beginning. We read about high spiritual masters who have opened their third eye etc.. etc.. and we think if we can open our third eyes, we will see visions or gain powers or enlightenment etc... But the reality is that if one practices good fundamentals, the upper centers will open on their own naturally. If they are forced open, at the very least... instead of achieving any high level of mastery, one will be stunting their energetic and spiritual growth and at worst, one will be causing themselves irreparable physical and energetic damage. If you are forced to learn taoist meditation by book or video, find one that is designed to teach you the fundamentals in a step by step method. When you have good fundamentals, then seek out a teacher to verify your method and then let them give the "higher" methods... There is a reason why these methods are transmitted in person. When you experience this, you will know why... my. 0.25 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest sykkelpump Posted January 21, 2011 (edited) Here is step by step anapanasati.I belive this is the best meditation.It focus a lot on relaxing the tension in the head which occur with every thoughts coming up.Which really takes you DEEP when done correctly. And this tension,if not constantly released will stagnate your practice over time,and also the speed of progress. And this tension can also give pressure in the head,which is common for some meditators http://www.dhammasukha.org/Study/Books/Pdf/The%20Anapanasati%20Sutta%202.pdf Edited January 21, 2011 by sykkelpump Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
heaven chi Posted January 21, 2011 Thank you all. Don't worry I have a teacher and he has given me a guided meditation CD recorded by himself. He told me however best is to memorize it but I prefer the guided CD. Are guided mediations less effective than otherwise? About anapanasati, yes I know I used to practice it in the past but I don't like it. I prefer my current style of meditation and I'm not changing it. But thank you for your good will to help me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
devoid Posted January 21, 2011 [...] Are guided mediations less effective than otherwise? [...] Guided meditation is very effective in getting you to the right place. Based on this, you can practice on your own and once you become comfortable with it you will be able to start exploring the wonders of what the guided meditation has lead you to. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fiveelementtao Posted January 21, 2011 Thank you all. Don't worry I have a teacher and he has given me a guided meditation CD recorded by himself. He told me however best is to memorize it but I prefer the guided CD. Are guided mediations less effective than otherwise? About anapanasati, yes I know I used to practice it in the past but I don't like it. I prefer my current style of meditation and I'm not changing it. But thank you for your good will to help me. If you have a teacher, you should be asking him these questions not random people on an internet forum. If you were my student, I would not want you asking strangers about instructions I had given you... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest sykkelpump Posted January 21, 2011 Thank you all. Don't worry I have a teacher and he has given me a guided meditation CD recorded by himself. He told me however best is to memorize it but I prefer the guided CD. Are guided mediations less effective than otherwise? About anapanasati, yes I know I used to practice it in the past but I don't like it. I prefer my current style of meditation and I'm not changing it. But thank you for your good will to help me. Guided meditation?I dont belive thats real meditation.But its a start for setting up a meditation routine.You shouldnt expect to much from it.sorry,but you asked and thats my opinion.I would rather do standing meditation like zhan zhuang if I didnt like "normal" meditation Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
heaven chi Posted January 21, 2011 If you have a teacher, you should be asking him these questions not random people on an internet forum. If you were my student, I would not want you asking strangers about instructions I had given you... OK, you're right. I am ashamed a bit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
heaven chi Posted January 21, 2011 Guided meditation?I dont belive thats real meditation.But its a start for setting up a meditation routine.You shouldnt expect to much from it.sorry,but you asked and thats my opinion.I would rather do standing meditation like zhan zhuang if I didnt like "normal" meditation OK, you are right. I'll have to grow out of guided meditation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
