The Greeds versus the Greens

[Starjumper]

Within the last couple of decades a great yogi has said that the next great war between good and evil will be waged over the battle field of health. (food/medicine/poisoning)

 

That war has already started and you have already chosen sides!

 

What side are you on?

 

Poll: check one

 

I'm a Greed _____

 

I'm a Green _____

 

If you have any difficulty deciding what side you are on look at you dinner plate.

 

There is only one way to fight this war.

 

It is said that the meek shall inherit the Earth ... but the Greeds won't give up without a fight. A highly toxic one.

 

The Monsanto Rag

 

Millions against Monsanto

 

edited for spelling

Edited January 21, 2011 by Starjumper7

[Marblehead]

Well, I think I can honestly say that I am one of the Greens.

 

However, I am not one of the 'meeks' and I have no desire or intention to enherit the Earth. I just demand enough room to stand on.

[TaoBee]

Within the last couple of decades a great yogi has said that the next great war between good and evil will be waged over the battle field of health. (food/medicine/poisoning)

 

That war has already started and you have already chosen sides!

 

What side are you on?

 

Poll: check one

 

I'm a Greed _____

 

I'm a Green _____

 

If you have any difficulty deciding what side you are on look at you dinner plate.

 

There is only one way to fight this war.

 

It is said that the meek shall inherit the Earth ... but the Greeds won't give up without a fight. A highly toxic one.

 

The Monsanto Rag

 

Millions against Monsanto

 

edited for spelling

 

 

I am most definitely a Green. And unfortunately we do have to battle. Ever watch Food Inc? If you go to Monsanto's website, they attempt to justify what they have done to farmers, how "safe" their GMO seeds etc are...

 

Greeds is right...call them like you see them.

[zerostao]

i think back to the 80's when "our" (usa) govt forced so many family farms into bankruptcy here in kentucky.

to what end? "they" said small farms are not efficient enough, the large corporate ag model is better for the people . the battle has been going on since before those times.

evryone should at least garden. even if you live in a city. convince your neighbors to do so as well.

[joeblast]

i think back to the 80's when "our" (usa) govt forced so many family farms into bankruptcy here in kentucky.

to what end? "they" said small farms are not efficient enough, the large corporate ag model is better for the people . the battle has been going on since before those times.

evryone should at least garden. even if you live in a city. convince your neighbors to do so as well.

paying a farmer to leave his land barren makes just about as much sense as burning your food as fuel! another bad byproduct of over-subsidization.

 

I for one cannot say that all genetic modification is a bad thing - how do you guys feel about trait-selective cross breeding? of course I'm not saying all GM is good or that it shouldnt be tested for efficacy, but to blanket say "all forms of GM are bad" is a tad narrow-minded.

 

that said, I prefer au naturale.

 

 

bloody pragmatism

[zerostao]

the farm i lived on was a dairy and we never ever were paid not to grow anything.

you do realize all of these hybrid seeds will not produce fertile seeds?

again to what end?

[joeblast]

"all"? some, yes. all? no. just as there were a subset of farmers paid in that manner, it is the same with the seeds. say what you mean, unless of course you really do think that 100% of seeds affected by GM in the least will be unfertile, in which case that is simply incorrect.

 

not trying to be confrontational, merely accurate.

[zerostao]

there is certainly no confronation here.joe blast i always respect your posts on TTB. i am often wrong and never care if this is pointed out to me.

100% no, ok. how about 97%? if we are being practical. even the pro hybrid seeds folks freely admit that hybrid seed cannot be saved & new seed must be purchased for each planting. they also point to larger yileds, great uniformity, better color& so forth . so it can be more commercial. however this requires fertilsers, herbicides, pesticides, and MUCH more WATER than the natural seed required.

do you think this use of these resources can be sustained? or could it collapse like all these other boondoggle ideas large corporations and our govt seem to force upon us.

btw available drinking quality water is also being bought up by large corporations.

i can understand how some folks might be a little concerned that their food and water supplies are being held by a very elite few. perhaps it is for the greater good of all mankind that this is so ?

[Starjumper]

Listen to the indians (the ones not poisoned by Xianity), when you survive genocide you get a clue. The shamans, medicine men, and chiefs know. I'm going to start recording one of them on video, dispensing wisdom.

[Starjumper]

There is a great Lacota chief coming to Seattle in Feb. to talk about prophecy and what is coming. A most advanced spiritual seer.

[thelerner]

I'll say I'm a greed. When people put up silly categories saying your either like me (good) or them (bad) I always like to exert a little individuality and be on the other side .

 

Michael

[New Dawn Fades]

There is a great Lacota chief coming to Seattle in Feb. to talk about prophecy and what is coming. A most advanced spiritual seer.

 

I guess he should be considered to be the native pope, the true spiritual leader of America.

 

For some reason I couldn't sign in with my Starjumper7 screen name so I may have been banned.

[joeblast]

btw available drinking quality water is also being bought up by large corporations.

i can understand how some folks might be a little concerned that their food and water supplies are being held by a very elite few. perhaps it is for the greater good of all mankind that this is so ?

as to the actual percentage, I am unsure - I'm sure certain "advantageous" traits were skipped at the expense of other "yield" traits. sustainability is often brought up, but, it seems that the notion that "a resource might run out sometime in the future" (and I'll add "if it is abused" as a contingent) seems to really be the only "unsustainable" that people bring up - so it would make sense to honestly assess long term viability and strain degradation. I still have yet to see any really convincing data that shows GM being detrimental - but at the same time, I would strongly suggest that keeping the original strains as intact as possible so we have something to fall back upon if there does indeed become an issue in the future.

 

as far as "buying up the drinking water"...*shrugs* I just picked up a reverse osmosis filter, so nobody's hogging water from me

[Birch]

as far as "buying up the drinking water"...*shrugs* I just picked up a reverse osmosis filter, so nobody's hogging water from me

 

Not if you get a water-meter plugged in...

 

Any way, how much and what kind?

 

And what about "qi-gong" on water, does that stuff work? I know the whatshisname experiments with ice-crystals and I'm not especially convinced, but it would be very useful to learn to zap your own water IMO

 

I've read up a bit on magnets and vortexes and crystal water but haven't gotten round to doing the experiments. Much like I haven't gotten round to buying an orgone blanket or a cell-phone tower hack or a cloud-busting pyramid or a rain-water filter pump and barrel...not to lump them all together.

 

And the "green" thing isn't necessarily all it's made out to be either. I know we all want to do well by the planet and each other but so many "green" things are bogus and some just don't have any net effect (except to make you poorer) - man it's a jungle out there

[zerostao]

the contingent is noted. and i agree if ethical behaivor is the practice there is less concern.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_farming

 

i have 2 active springs on property i hold, my concern is not for myself.

[joeblast]

Not if you get a water-meter plugged in...

 

Any way, how much and what kind?

 

And what about "qi-gong" on water, does that stuff work? I know the whatshisname experiments with ice-crystals and I'm not especially convinced, but it would be very useful to learn to zap your own water IMO

 

I've read up a bit on magnets and vortexes and crystal water but haven't gotten round to doing the experiments. Much like I haven't gotten round to buying an orgone blanket or a cell-phone tower hack or a cloud-busting pyramid or a rain-water filter pump and barrel...not to lump them all together.

 

And the "green" thing isn't necessarily all it's made out to be either. I know we all want to do well by the planet and each other but so many "green" things are bogus and some just don't have any net effect (except to make you poorer) - man it's a jungle out there

yeah, since I'm in a condo, I dont get the water bill. and my condo fees are already exceedingly hefty - therefore I dont feel bad about sticking them with the additional minor cost

 

I picked up one of those "vortex magnetizers" that has a 6 sided alternating polarity arrangement - not everyone can tell the difference but I absolutely can - it seems that an ionic alignment of sorts happens with anything in the water; the electrical permittivity of water is very low, so the water itself doesnt really take on the charge-alignment property itself...and that little bit, omitting the first (and important) part is why some people dismiss these things as not having any effect at all. Anyway, the net effect seems to be a decrease in viscosity of the liquid - less overall friction of the liquid. Makes water "wetter, smoother" and does the same for wine, it also makes for a good cup of tea spinning up the water before heating.

 

Unfortunately the majority of "green" stuff is, like coca-cola, buying more into a name brand as opposed to anything real - its another way for one to feel good as though he has given to a charity - even though the overhead of the charity makes it such an inefficient means to be charitable and lets charlatans take advantage of people's good will - that's another basis for "forced charity is theft" since most times you see it, its mostly to make somebody some money.

[Birch]

yeah, since I'm in a condo, I dont get the water bill. and my condo fees are already exceedingly hefty - therefore I dont feel bad about sticking them with the additional minor cost

 

I picked up one of those "vortex magnetizers" that has a 6 sided alternating polarity arrangement - not everyone can tell the difference but I absolutely can - it seems that an ionic alignment of sorts happens with anything in the water; the electrical permittivity of water is very low, so the water itself doesnt really take on the charge-alignment property itself...and that little bit, omitting the first (and important) part is why some people dismiss these things as not having any effect at all. Anyway, the net effect seems to be a decrease in viscosity of the liquid - less overall friction of the liquid. Makes water "wetter, smoother" and does the same for wine, it also makes for a good cup of tea spinning up the water before heating.

 

Unfortunately the majority of "green" stuff is, like coca-cola, buying more into a name brand as opposed to anything real - its another way for one to feel good as though he has given to a charity - even though the overhead of the charity makes it such an inefficient means to be charitable and lets charlatans take advantage of people's good will - that's another basis for "forced charity is theft" since most times you see it, its mostly to make somebody some money.

 

Gotcha. Can you post/PM the link to this thing so I can check it out? Thanks!

 

Yeah, the charity thing, don't get me started on that one

[Birch]

 

kate, Ya Mu taught workshop attendees "water fu." We each projected qi into a glass of water and healed each other of a minor affliction, about 80% free of complaints. Even beginners were successful.

 

Interesting! What were the afflictions? And what kind of qi were you projecting?

 

Thank you!

 

Slight back to topic. What's the bums' take on "carbon credits"? Useful device? Scam? Next bubble? Insane? Pointless? What about from a 5E (phase) POV?

[joeblast]

Carbon credits are a total scam - just another way for governments to thieve money from businesses that operate inside its borders. I think CCX is trading about 5, 7 cents a share right now, down from like 7 bucks in 2007 - people are starting to get it its why cancun was a dismal failure and kyoto wasnt extended - if you pay attention to empirical reality, when you are utterly unable to effect the signal from within the noise background, you're just spinning your wheels!

 

 

 

 

I'll dig up infos

Edited January 24, 2011 by joeblast

[Otis]

to blanket say "all forms of GM are bad" is a tad narrow-minded.

 

bloody pragmatism

Certainly, it would be inaccurate to say "all forms of GM are bad". But I think it would be totally accurate to say: "we really don't know what we're doing".

 

There is one scientific hypothesis of how the AIDS epidemic started, that has really changed my "technology is good" assumption. That hypothesis is that someone received, in an experimental surgery, a primate heart valve that was contaminated with the Chimp version of HIV. Because their immune system was so reduced by drugs, the previously ape-only disease was able to cross over into the human host.

 

If that hypothesis is right, then we have to be a lot more careful, then I think we realize. No one would guess that an experimental heart valve transplant would lead to the deaths of millions and millions of people. Who would say: "don't try that; it might be dangerous"?

 

And so, too, with GM crops. I don't know their danger, but I didn't previously know the danger of trans fat, or global warming. We are changing the face of the planet (and our food supply), with precious little insight into what those changes will create.

[joeblast]

cant agree with "we really dont know what we're doing" either - "we cant fully imagine the entirety of the consequences," of course we have a "decent" idea of what we're doing, its a far cry from omniscience, for sure - but to suggest its all just wild experimentation to see what happens is erroneous. give your fellow man a little credit

 

bloody semantics

[Listener]

I'm hoping it's only greed that motivates corporations like Monsanto to do what they do, but I feel in many cases it is an active malevolence.

[ben]

[moonshadow]

Listen to the indians (the ones not poisoned by Xianity), when you survive genocide you get a clue. The shamans, medicine men, and chiefs know. I'm going to start recording one of them on video, dispensing wisdom.

Will you share the video? Pez dispenser?

[moonshadow]

I'm hoping it's only greed that motivates corporations like Monsanto to do what they do, but I feel in many cases it is an active malevolence.

Is greed malevolent?