Science of meditation

[Sunya]

HELLO

 

I was told about a recent study done which shows that in just 8 weeks of meditation, there are considerable brain changes occurring. I found this pretty fascinating. Here's a link http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-01-mindfulness-meditation-brain-weeks.html

 

I also found some really interesting talks given on the subject of meditation and science. The first one is by a former scientist who became a Buddhist monk. The second is by Jon Kabat Zinn who founded the Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction therapy and has done lots of research on mindfulness therapy at U Mass Med school..

 

If happiness is an inner state, influenced by external conditions but not dependent on them, how can we achieve it? Ricard will examine the inner and outer factors that increase or diminish our sense of well-being, dissect the underlying mechanisms of happiness, and lead us to a way of looking at the mind itself based on his book, Happiness: A Guide to Life's Most Important Skill and from the research in neuroscience on the effect of mind-training on the brain.

 

Speaker Bio: Matthieu Ricard, a gifted scientist turned Buddhist monk, is a best selling author, translator, and photographer. He has lived and studied in the Himalayas for the last 35 years...

 

 

Jon will describe the revolution in medicine that has occurred over the past 30 years that has integrated the mind back into the body and developed a remarkable range of practices for integrating one's experience, reducing stress, healing the body, coping more effectively with emotions such as anxiety, anger, and depression, and cultivating greater well-being and happiness. His work has been instrumental in bringing Buddhist meditative practices, as he likes to say, "without the Buddhism" to full acceptance within the mainstream of medicine, psychology, and health care, and has shown them to be effective in people suffering from a wide range of medical...

 

 

 

[adept]

These videos look interesting. When I get more time later today I'm gonna watch them.

Thanks for posting them.

[exorcist_1699]

Unfortunately those who keep talking about a science of meditation are people who never get a real understanding of what a much higher Wisdom than science that they can really nourish from meditation ;With such a narrow, fatal scientific framework embedded in our mind , hardly can we really achieve anything high...

Edited January 23, 2011 by exorcist_1699

[Marblehead]

Very interesting subject Sunya.

 

I think that Exorcist made an important observation as well.

 

Perhaps approaching meditation in a scientific manner can be an excellent starting point for many.

 

But as Exorcist pointed out, remaining fixed to a scientific method will likely limit the potential benefits of meditation for us.

[Mr. T]

hey all!

 

i felt compelled to post here because when science starts to take flak i just get all hot and bothered! to first address the op, thank you for the vids and info. there is a lot of good info out there about folks who are starting to delve into this unknown territory.

 

now to the comment made by exorcist

"With such a narrow, fatal scientific framework embedded in our mind , hardly can we really achieve anything high..."

 

while this may be true, i feel it is important to keep in mind that "science" is the opposite of narrow and fatalistic...it is the humans who try to find things out under the guise of science that become narrow and fatalistic. just because an experiment did not show a,b, or c, does not mean that a,b, or c does or cannot exist, it just means the people doing the science did not do something properly....or they did everything properly and the expected outcome is hogwash in the first place.

 

 

so i don't want to take this thread in a different direction, i just wanted to be a voice in favor of science and say that exorcist's view can potentially be a dangerous one because it is not exactly correct. it is not "science" that cannot explain nature properly, it is the scientists and their limited understanding that puts limitations on this sort of thing...

[Birch]

hey all!

 

i felt compelled to post here because when science starts to take flak i just get all hot and bothered! to first address the op, thank you for the vids and info. there is a lot of good info out there about folks who are starting to delve into this unknown territory.

 

now to the comment made by exorcist

"With such a narrow, fatal scientific framework embedded in our mind , hardly can we really achieve anything high..."

 

while this may be true, i feel it is important to keep in mind that "science" is the opposite of narrow and fatalistic...it is the humans who try to find things out under the guise of science that become narrow and fatalistic. just because an experiment did not show a,b, or c, does not mean that a,b, or c does or cannot exist, it just means the people doing the science did not do something properly....or they did everything properly and the expected outcome is hogwash in the first place.

 

 

so i don't want to take this thread in a different direction, i just wanted to be a voice in favor of science and say that exorcist's view can potentially be a dangerous one because it is not exactly correct. it is not "science" that cannot explain nature properly, it is the scientists and their limited understanding that puts limitations on this sort of thing...

 

Hear hear

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Very nice, thanks you Sunya.

 

After watching various parts of these videos, I asked myself: in what world which I want to live, one in which all manner of Siddhis were being pursued by all and attained by quite a few, or one in which being fully 'awake' to the present moment was being pursued by all and attained by quite a few?

[exorcist_1699]

Why think that a trivial mind can understand what another much bigger , magnificent MIND is doing.?

 

Of course, a monkey can sit beside us and study what we humans are doing , however, no matter how hard it

observes and tries , it can't understand the deep cultural implication of our behaviors, let alone the intelligence we attain and the cultural legacy we accumulate .

 

I do not oppose science study the brain, what I say is that when science studies a mind in its real , deep meditative state , science should not overestimate what it can get . Besides, why we expect that everything in this universe should be subject/succumb to the study of science and its reasoning..?

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Science is a conceptual tool, a lens, a filter that we place over reality in an attempt to explain phenomena. It is not able to capture all of existence, much falls through it's filter. No matter how much we know, we can never know everything. Science is powerful, and it is limited.

[Sunya]

The point, at least for me, of the science of meditation and the brain is to help people. The 2nd video is by a medical doctor who developed a very popular therapy which uses mindfulness for stress. In this age, science is like the church so we need the approval of science... and it's very good that science is approving meditation

[Sahaj Nath]

In this age, science is like the church so we need the approval of science... and it's very good that science is approving meditation

 

SO true!

 

very much enjoying the first video. i'll get to the second one later this evening.

[rex]

These will keep interested folks busy for a while, videos and papers from the:

 

Neuroscience and Spiritual Practices Conference

 

Click the presenter names to follow the links.

 

Edit: Found a better link

Edited January 23, 2011 by rex

[devoid]

Hi Sunya,

 

Thanks for posting these very interesting talks!

 

In line with the topic title of this post, I think you may also enjoy reading "Zen and the Brain: Toward an Understanding of Meditation and Consciousness" - by James H. Austin (MIT Press) who is not only the author, but a clinical neurologist, scientific researcher, and Zen practitioner. The book is full of interesting observations and insight.

[Birch]

"In this age, science is like the church so we need the approval of science..."

 

Agree with first part of that sentence, disagree with the second

[Sunya]

"In this age, science is like the church so we need the approval of science..."

 

Agree with first part of that sentence, disagree with the second

 

We = the masses = the sheep. Not us, obviously. haha :>

I think it's funny how a lot of people blindly are devoted to what science can prove... they'll just deny everything that isn't accepted until it is accepted. While this is better than blind faith, I think it puts too much trust in the hands of scientists, and what if they never can prove without a doubt that consciousness isn't just the brain? What if the only way to prove that is through subjective empirical exploration. Well, then a lot of people are severely screwed, kind of like lemmings, the blind leading the blind.

 

Anyway, I think it is good that meditation is being accepted by the masses as having some real practical value. This may be the beginning of a mainstream acceptance of spirituality.

Edited January 24, 2011 by Sunya

[henro]

We = the masses = the sheep. Not us, obviously. haha :>

I think it's funny how a lot of people blindly are devoted to what science can prove... they'll just deny everything that isn't accepted until it is accepted. While this is better than blind faith, I think it puts too much trust in the hands of scientists,

 

 

Which is dangerous considering how many times science is just plain wrong or later revises itself. . . .

 

 

and what if they never can prove without a doubt that consciousness isn't just the brain? What if the only to prove that is through subjective empirical exploration. Well, then a lot of people are severely screwed, kind of like lemmings, the blind leading the blind.

 

My anatomy teacher was just telling us about a study that concluded a part of the heart actually produces hormones (hmm, that wasn't part of the endocrine system when I was in high school), and my Chinese medicine professor (also an MD) was talking about Chinese research that verifies concepts that the mind/spirit may be aided by different parts of the body . . . .

[torus693]

Break it down

 

[bindo]

Matthieu Ricard The happiest man alive!

[Sunya]

My anatomy teacher was just telling us about a study that concluded a part of the heart actually produces hormones (hmm, that wasn't part of the endocrine system when I was in high school), and my Chinese medicine professor (also an MD) was talking about Chinese research that verifies concepts that the mind/spirit may be aided by different parts of the body . . . .

 

That's really interesting. Do you have a link to the study?

And are you studying to be a doctor or nurse?

[Birch]

"We = the masses = the sheep. Not us, obviously. haha :>"

 

Yeah, nice feeling to rise above the so-called "sheep" huh ?

 

I think the majority of people are just trying to do their best with what's available to them in terms of situation, information, thinking skills, insight etc. Dissing them because they trust the folks they've been taught to trust is really unkind IMO.

[henro]

That's really interesting. Do you have a link to the study?

And are you studying to be a doctor or nurse?

 

I'm studying to be a Chinese medicine doctor. Masters first, then a phd program. . .

 

 

Here's a link to a paper on heart hormone secretions:

 

http://www.touchcardiology.com/articles/natriuretic-peptides-a-review