The Older Generation has really screwed up this world..

[Paulw]

"The Older Generation has really screwed up this world.." This really is a contradiction in it's self, after all if it's as simple as that then we may as well have a go at the first caveman who lit a fire because you're guaranteed that someone became jealous and built a bigger fire than his neighbour, but who should be blamed, the first for the discovery of warmth or the second for working out that a bigger fire means more heat ?

 

There is a reason for everything and everything has a reason, the grandmother may well have said there that her granddaughter need not pray so hard but she may have also said that there are many ways to be thankful.

 

We must always try to remember that relying on our external senses alone can be dangerous when they are in control of our hearts.

[bodyoflight]

"The Older Generation has really screwed up this world.." This really is a contradiction in it's self, after all if it's as simple as that then we may as well have a go at the first caveman who lit a fire because you're guaranteed that someone became jealous and built a bigger fire than his neighbour, but who should be blamed, the first for the discovery of warmth or the second for working out that a bigger fire means more heat ?

 

There is a reason for everything and everything has a reason, the grandmother may well have said there that her granddaughter need not pray so hard but she may have also said that there are many ways to be thankful.

 

We must always try to remember that relying on our external senses alone can be dangerous when they are in control of our hearts.

 

the grandmother's ignorance is hindering the evolution of the granddaughter

 

enuff said

[Birch]

the grandmother's ignorance is hindering the evolution of the granddaughter

 

enuff said

 

I don't think there's nearly enough said on this idea. What did our grandmothers (and grandfathers) come into the world with? What was the world they came into? What is evolution?

 

Ok, you get the general drift. What I do like about TTB's is that there's a lot less of the "'nuff said" stuff when it comes to such questions as one (me) might find elsewhere. Like Huffpost, although I quite like some of the comments there. And IMO one shouldn't confuse "'nuff said" with "Yikes, I actually have no idea". Unless you really do have an excellent idea and are just being a stinge

[thelerner]

I've gotten into a similar tit for tat on another post. Ultimately the guy showed he knew what he was talking about and was willing to spend serious time on obtaining his goals. So all I could do was- go for it. Not that my permission is asked for, needed or wanted.

 

So honestly and peacefully, what are you doing and what do you expect from it? Don't run away from feedback. People here probably understand where you're coming from because we've been there ourselves.

 

Personally when a heavy hitter like Rawn Clark (a hermetic wizard, abardoncompanion.com) says he's had regular meeting in dreamspace with other real world people and they call each other later to confirm details, I believe him. We're talking about a very talented, dedicated person with decades of experience in a rather rigorous discipline (Bardon Hermetics).

 

Siddhis of the mind and body I'm relatively open to. Siddhis that defy gravity and other physical laws, not so much. Extraordinary claims need extraordinary proofs.

 

Again in respect and out of curiosity, what are you doing?

 

 

Michael

[bodyoflight]

I've gotten into a similar tit for tat on another post. Ultimately the guy showed he knew what he was talking about and was willing to spend serious time on obtaining his goals. So all I could do was- go for it. Not that my permission is asked for, needed or wanted.

 

So honestly and peacefully, what are you doing and what do you expect from it? Don't run away from feedback. People here probably understand where you're coming from because we've been there ourselves.

 

Personally when a heavy hitter like Rawn Clark (a hermetic wizard, abardoncompanion.com) says he's had regular meeting in dreamspace with other real world people and they call each other later to confirm details, I believe him. We're talking about a very talented, dedicated person with decades of experience in a rather rigorous discipline (Bardon Hermetics).

 

Siddhis of the mind and body I'm relatively open to. Siddhis that defy gravity and other physical laws, not so much. Extraordinary claims need extraordinary proofs.

 

Again in respect and out of curiosity, what are you doing?

 

 

Michael

 

Various things. I am lucky enough to meet and learn from teachers of various traditions and cross-reference their truths with each other. So yeah, I more or less understand what is true and what is false.

 

The topic of this thread is not about what I do however. I am just here to learn more knowledge, more wisdom and to evolve myself.

 

This thread, however, is about how lots of parents and grandparents all over the world whose ignorance have hindered the evolution of their children and grandchildren.

 

I once debated with a very high taoist master on the nature of the universe. He said that I was different from other people who have debated with him.

 

He said that although I have my own views and do not agree with everything he said, I remained very respectful and polite unlike other people who is very arrogant about what they think when debating with him. Those other people rudely criticize the taoist master flat out with the arrogance of their own views.

 

I told him it is because I have not verified my own truths 100% yet so how can I stamp my version of truths on the world?

 

What I can do however is to constantly challenge the truths of this world, to challenge not only other people's truths but also my own truths as well.

 

That is how we evolve cos the world is constantly evolving as well.

 

However, too many parents and grandparents think they know it all and expect their children/grandchildren to think the same outdated thoughts as them. It sickens me to see how the demon of ignorance rule in this world.

Edited February 2, 2011 by bodyoflight

[island]

B.O.L I'm getting confused?

 

Is the world devolving or evolving?

[Marblehead]

 

Is the world devolving or evolving?

 

Yes.

[bodyoflight]

B.O.L I'm getting confused?

 

Is the world devolving or evolving?

 

Why ask me? See with your own eyes

[bodyoflight]

B.O.L I'm getting confused?

 

Is the world devolving or evolving?

 

Why ask me? See with your own eyes

[Birch]

"However, too many parents and grandparents think they know it all and expect their children/grandchildren to think the same outdated thoughts as them."

 

I'd argue that we all do it to some extent on a minute to minute (second to second?) basis.

 

However, IMO some "outdated" thoughts are actually "values" that are just misjudged, mistimed, mis- hit and miss.

 

I wonder what would happen if everyone went with the flow? No resistance whatsoever. At all. Under such conditions, would we even exist? If so, would we exist in our present "form" with it's attendant "limitations"? I think Taoist practices help one to answer such questions for themselves.

[thelerner]

 

However, too many parents and grandparents think they know it all and expect their children/grandchildren to think the same outdated thoughts as them. It sickens me to see how the demon of ignorance rule in this world.

 

Hmmmn, Or is the problem parents and grandparents (who may have much living experience) see children who think they know it all and it sickens them to see how the demon of ignorance is ruling the modern world?

 

Seems to me the problem isn't who is right. Its a question of respect, being able to listen to others with respect and not getting 'sickened' by it.

 

As long as they're not (truly) abusive, we owe our parents and grandparents respect. Its hard to raise kids, they don't come with training manuals. For the first 30 years of your life there will be a huge karmic imbalance between what they've done for us and the relatively little we've done for them.

 

So I'm saying when it comes to parents- grin and bear it. Thats not to say you shouldn't go your own way, but do it in as respectful a manner as you can. If you prove yourself responsible, respectful and intelligent people will you the benefit of a doubt and eventually you'll win them over.

 

Last night we had a large storm in Chicago. I called to check on my parents and sisters, I helped my neighbors. Its not just about fun and drama, its about back up when life is tough. No one will love you or do more for you then family, or be as ready to help you as a friend.

 

Michael

[bodyoflight]

Hmmmn, Or is the problem parents and grandparents (who may have much living experience) see children who think they know it all and it sickens them to see how the demon of ignorance is ruling the modern world?

 

 

there are a lot of unevolved parents and grandparents.. but these unevolved parents and grandparents were unevolved children themselves who did not have the wisdom or courage to question the truths and egos of their own parents and grandparents..

 

the truly evolved parent/grandparent expects their children to question their truths so that the views of the parent/grandparent would be evolved further..

 

Seems to me the problem isn't who is right. Its a question of respect, being able to listen to others with respect and not getting 'sickened' by it.

 

 

Your version of respect is no different from blind obedience.

 

My version of respect is all about courtesy and manners.

 

One should be courteous to both his parents and children..

 

Getting sickened by ignorance is hardly disrespectful

 

 

As long as they're not (truly) abusive, we owe our parents and grandparents respect. Its hard to raise kids, they don't come with training manuals. For the first 30 years of your life there will be a huge karmic imbalance between what they've done for us and the relatively little we've done for them.

 

 

we own everyone we meet courtesy and manners, not just our parents and grandparents..

 

do you mean to say that you do not have to respect your kids?

 

do you mean to say that you do not have to be courteous towards your kids?

 

 

 

So I'm saying when it comes to parents- grin and bear it. Thats not to say you shouldn't go your own way, but do it in as respectful a manner as you can. If you prove yourself responsible, respectful and intelligent people will you the benefit of a doubt and eventually you'll win them over.

 

Last night we had a large storm in Chicago. I called to check on my parents and sisters, I helped my neighbors. Its not just about fun and drama, its about back up when life is tough. No one will love you or do more for you then family, or be as ready to help you as a friend.

 

Michael

 

There is no need for you to win anyone over. Getting others to believe in your version of truths is the mark of ego.

 

There is no need for anyone to love you. Depending on others to find the love for yourself is the mark of ego.

 

There is no need for you to have family and friends. Having this attachment to family and friends is the mark of ego.

 

Your emboldened quotes to me showed the mark of someone sorely in need of acceptance and love from his peers.

 

You should wake up, Michael cos right now, you sound pretty pathetic.

 

But then hey who am I to ask you to stop being so pathetic? So yeah, carry on living the way you are if you are happy.

 

It is no responsibility of mine to wake you or anyone else up.

 

It is no responsibility of mine to change you or anyone else.

Edited February 2, 2011 by bodyoflight

[thelerner]

Wake up? Been up since 7a.m my friend. Why do you think saying respecting parents means we don't need to respect children? Also I didn't say blind obedience, matter of fact I wrote: "Thats not to say you shouldn't go your own way, but do it in as respectful a manner as you can." You assume too much and I suspect projecting.

 

One think you're right about is 'I need my family & friends'. I am stronger, happier and saner, more fulfilled with them. I don't think its dependence as much as co-dependence. We help each other. Its a value beyond material things. If you've never experienced it, I'm sorry for you. Don't give up on friends and family in order to search for a comic book existence.

 

When I asked what you practice you said it didn't matter. I think it does. Philosophy be damned. What you practice, how hard. What you create, who you help.. is ultimately all that matters.

 

Michael

 

 

later thoughts, cause its snowy outside:

 

Blind obedience, no. Obedience, yes. I spent 16 years in Japanese martial arts. I had some pretty cool instructors. I did learn the principle of giri from them. Its a combination of respect and what is owed.

 

They had my respect so if they asked me to do something that didn't seem productive, I'd do it. I assume they knew better and what the hell. BOL keeps accusing others of egoic actions, but this kind of obedience is ego lessening. Hundun was trying to get at this I think.

 

Visiting other dojos for seminars I found some instructors to be plain nasty. While in there dojo I showed them utter respect. No way would I join there club, but there dojo, there rules, maybe there was some good learning there if I kept my mouth shut. I think its rare to find a perfect teacher. A great teacher won't be the stereotype you think. You might miss out on gold if you hold too closely to your picture.

 

Parentwise, I am an obedient son, I'm lucky to have a pretty cool mom, dad can be a bit of a double A personality. Not blindly, but if they ask me to do something, however inconvenient I'll do it, giri.

 

Kidwise, I expect there obedience. This morning we all took turns shoveling (5 people 2 hours). When I asked my son to help an elderly neighbor he went right away and I was very proud. He could have said, no, stayed where it was warm, played video games. On the other side I encourage there passions and support them.

 

I don't know if anyone has 'enlightened' parents, but where there is a bond of love, thats mostly enough.

 

BOF you may think its pathetic, but its a really good life made possible to a great extent by Giri.

[mYTHmAKER]

The older generation didn't bring rap - music? into this world

[Birch]

Wake up? Been up since 7a.m my friend. Why do you think saying respecting parents means we don't need to respect children? Also I didn't say blind obedience, matter of fact I wrote: "Thats not to say you shouldn't go your own way, but do it in as respectful a manner as you can." You assume too much and I suspect projecting.

 

One think you're right about is 'I need my family & friends'. I am stronger, happier and saner, more fulfilled with them. I don't think its dependence as much as co-dependence. We help each other. Its a value beyond material things. If you've never experienced it, I'm sorry for you. Don't give up on friends and family in order to search for a comic book existence.

 

When I asked what you practice you said it didn't matter. I think it does. Philosophy be damned. What you practice, how hard. What you create, who you help.. is ultimately all that matters.

 

Michael

 

 

later thoughts, cause its snowy outside:

 

Blind obedience, no. Obedience, yes. I spent 16 years in Japanese martial arts. I had some pretty cool instructors. I did learn the principle of giri from them. Its a combination of respect and what is owed.

 

They had my respect so if they asked me to do something that didn't seem productive, I'd do it. I assume they knew better and what the hell. BOL keeps accusing others of egoic actions, but this kind of obedience is ego lessening. Hundun was trying to get at this I think.

 

Visiting other dojos for seminars I found some instructors to be plain nasty. While in there dojo I showed them utter respect. No way would I join there club, but there dojo, there rules, maybe there was some good learning there if I kept my mouth shut. I think its rare to find a perfect teacher. A great teacher won't be the stereotype you think. You might miss out on gold if you hold too closely to your picture.

 

Parentwise, I am an obedient son, I'm lucky to have a pretty cool mom, dad can be a bit of a double A personality. Not blindly, but if they ask me to do something, however inconvenient I'll do it, giri.

 

Kidwise, I expect there obedience. This morning we all took turns shoveling (5 people 2 hours). When I asked my son to help an elderly neighbor he went right away and I was very proud. He could have said, no, stayed where it was warm, played video games. On the other side I encourage there passions and support them.

 

I don't know if anyone has 'enlightened' parents, but where there is a bond of love, thats mostly enough.

 

BOF you may think its pathetic, but its a really good life made possible to a great extent by Giri.

 

Ah, this whole post has me all, everywhere. Definitely "stuff" to stew in Thanks, I'll use it for practice fuel Do parents "respect" their children? If so, what does that imply? I really can't imagine many parents from certain generations (well, mine, but I haven't checked out too many younger people) actually reflecting on such things and deciding to take a specific approach (and one that's not just a running counter knee jerk).

[bodyoflight]

Wake up? Been up since 7a.m my friend. Why do you think saying respecting parents means we don't need to respect children? Also I didn't say blind obedience, matter of fact I wrote: "Thats not to say you shouldn't go your own way, but do it in as respectful a manner as you can." You assume too much and I suspect projecting.

 

One think you're right about is 'I need my family & friends'. I am stronger, happier and saner, more fulfilled with them. I don't think its dependence as much as co-dependence. We help each other. Its a value beyond material things. If you've never experienced it, I'm sorry for you. Don't give up on friends and family in order to search for a comic book existence.

 

When I asked what you practice you said it didn't matter. I think it does. Philosophy be damned. What you practice, how hard. What you create, who you help.. is ultimately all that matters.

 

Michael

 

 

later thoughts, cause its snowy outside:

 

Blind obedience, no. Obedience, yes. I spent 16 years in Japanese martial arts. I had some pretty cool instructors. I did learn the principle of giri from them. Its a combination of respect and what is owed.

 

They had my respect so if they asked me to do something that didn't seem productive, I'd do it. I assume they knew better and what the hell. BOL keeps accusing others of egoic actions, but this kind of obedience is ego lessening. Hundun was trying to get at this I think.

 

Visiting other dojos for seminars I found some instructors to be plain nasty. While in there dojo I showed them utter respect. No way would I join there club, but there dojo, there rules, maybe there was some good learning there if I kept my mouth shut. I think its rare to find a perfect teacher. A great teacher won't be the stereotype you think. You might miss out on gold if you hold too closely to your picture.

 

Parentwise, I am an obedient son, I'm lucky to have a pretty cool mom, dad can be a bit of a double A personality. Not blindly, but if they ask me to do something, however inconvenient I'll do it, giri.

 

Kidwise, I expect there obedience. This morning we all took turns shoveling (5 people 2 hours). When I asked my son to help an elderly neighbor he went right away and I was very proud. He could have said, no, stayed where it was warm, played video games. On the other side I encourage there passions and support them.

 

I don't know if anyone has 'enlightened' parents, but where there is a bond of love, thats mostly enough.

 

BOF you may think its pathetic, but its a really good life made possible to a great extent by Giri.

 

I understand the japanese culture more than you think.

 

In my mind, the Japanese is one of most advanced people on earth, if not the most advanced people itself.

 

But ask any Japanese what they about Giri, which means "obligation to serve", and they would tell you nightmare stories about how those in positions in power and authority in families, companies, organizations would abuse the noble concept of Giri to play games of power with their juniors and children/grandchildren.

 

Giri.. obligation to serve.. what it really means is an obligation to be of service to everyone.. regardless of whether it be your juniors or seniors.. unfortunately, too many seniors have abused their positions of authority over their juniors, as evidenced by your experiences with the japanese culture..

 

If you think enlightenment is a comic book existence, what the hell are you doing in this forum? This is clearly the wrong place for you.

[bodyoflight]

The older generation didn't bring rap - music? into this world

 

Music is just like magick, both can be light or dark.

 

An example of uplifting rap music..

 

[bodyoflight]

I am not against all the older generation in the world.

 

One has to use wisdom to determine who is telling you the right stuff and who is telling you the wrong stuff.

 

If the politicians, if every religious leader, if every parent/grand-parent is as evolved/enlightened as the Buddhas, then no one will have any problems learning from such enlightened beings.

 

It is indeed a great fortune to be born to parents who are enlightened beings.

 

Unfortunately, most politicians, parents and grandparents are unenlightened fools. It would be a mistake for a child to base his life on teachings from such fools.

[mYTHmAKER]

Music is just like magick, both can be light or dark.

 

An example of uplifting rap music..

 

 

Uplifting what. The music beat is hardly uplifting -more disruptive on ones body and psyche.

The only saving grace is that it is in Spanish and i don't understand the words.

[thelerner]

If you think enlightenment is a comic book existence, what the hell are you doing in this forum? This is clearly the wrong place for you.

 

I think trying to get super powers is a comic book theme. The goal of enlightenment should not be powers. If siddhis come, fine, but as a goal they can be corrupting. That is one of the lessons I've learned from this site, from some its top people.

 

The other is beware of paranoia and alienation, there are energetic practices that can bring them out. Making the world seem like a dark place and give rise to fantasies that make living in the real very hard.

 

Just be careful out there man. Even as a lone eagle meditator who scorns attachment having friends will help you to connect to good resources.

 

Still I was thinking..if your looking for powers, Michael Murphy wrote the book The Future of the Body: Explorations Into the Further Evolution Of Human Nature, its a compendium of Siddhis, its pretty thick and encyclopedial. One of his friends George Leonard wrote the book The Life We are Given.

 

Whats interesting about that book is it has a 6 (I think) month program of eating, exercises, meditation. What is unsual is you at the start you set up 2 hard goals, and one almost super human goal that you repeat to yourself several times a day. He's had some interesting results from it.

 

Warning to get results in his sytem there is a lot of long dedicated boring hours. Just like most worthwhile systems. No secrets, long steady work.

 

Michael

[bodyoflight]

I think trying to get super powers is a comic book theme. The goal of enlightenment should not be powers. If siddhis come, fine, but as a goal they can be corrupting. That is one of the lessons I've learned from this site, from some its top people.

 

The other is beware of paranoia and alienation, there are energetic practices that can bring them out. Making the world seem like a dark place and give rise to fantasies that make living in the real very hard.

 

Just be careful out there man. Even as a lone eagle meditator who scorns attachment having friends will help you to connect to good resources.

 

Still I was thinking..if your looking for powers, Michael Murphy wrote the book The Future of the Body: Explorations Into the Further Evolution Of Human Nature, its a compendium of Siddhis, its pretty thick and encyclopedial. One of his friends George Leonard wrote the book The Life We are Given.

 

Whats interesting about that book is it has a 6 (I think) month program of eating, exercises, meditation. What is unsual is you at the start you set up 2 hard goals, and one almost super human goal that you repeat to yourself several times a day. He's had some interesting results from it.

 

Warning to get results in his sytem there is a lot of long dedicated boring hours. Just like most worthwhile systems. No secrets, long steady work.

 

Michael

 

I scorn both attachments and aversions. For true emptiness consists of nothing and aversion is just the flipside of attachment. I do have friends of course.. but I choose my friends very very carefully.

 

The goal of enlightenment is never about siddhis but you will need siddhis in order to get enlightened. There is no way around it.

[Listener]

I agree completely with what Vortex said about contemporary culture in modernized societies. To a great extent there simply isn't culture in the sense of something genuine and organic that comes from the people. Everything is from the top down, from the corporate board room to the people.

 

This is not just true in media entertainments, but also political opinion, and even cuisine.

 

There are always exceptions of course, and the internet has helped, but the overall situation remains.

[mYTHmAKER]

I scorn both attachments and aversions. For true emptiness consists of nothing and aversion is just the flipside of attachment. I do have friends of course.. but I choose my friends very very carefully.

 

The goal of enlightenment is never about siddhis but you will need siddhis in order to get enlightened. There is no way around it.

 

scorn is an attachment

[Tree Stump]

Hmmmn, Or is the problem parents and grandparents (who may have much living experience) see children who think they know it all and it sickens them to see how the demon of ignorance is ruling the modern world?

 

Seems to me the problem isn't who is right. Its a question of respect, being able to listen to others with respect and not getting 'sickened' by it.

 

Couldn't have said it better. Thank you.

 

Never look a gift horse in the mouth. We have the gift of life, and for that we should be eternally grateful and spread that joy, not point fingers.

 

- TS

[sifusufi]

Well my first employer in 1979 had a bulletproof work ethic.

My parents were depression WWII generation who had pride.

It seems when I am working I bring a solid sense of 120% effort to the environment

Somewhere along my co-workers learned to slack, they learned it somewhere. I have seen this nationwide.

It is an I can do the minimum mentality.

 

The closest I have seen to national pride is the NFL or gangster nations around Chicago livin' large.

 

Now that my body is close to broken down from decades of "giving" and "service" I look to Cuba or Bahia

as a place to retire to collect my socialist security. (yea right)

 

So I dedicate this to all the Barack Obama Liberals and Sarah Palin conservatives who are currently workin'

24/7 to fix the shitstem.

 

Start at 01:34

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=PzC2eM1tWRk

 

 

 

And have a solution to your airport scanning woes an a bonus!

 

 

Love you all!