Central channel in the body

[Niklas]

Hello,

 

I wonder how the central channel goes exactly? Central channel and the sides channel. The sides channels are at the side of the central channel so it must be the same thing. I have heard things before like "draw the energy up your spine and down the front of your body", so I wonder if the central channel goes around the body or if it is just straight going from the crown to the navel?

[King Kabalabhati]

Hello,

 

I wonder how the central channel goes exactly? Central channel and the sides channel. The sides channels are at the side of the central channel so it must be the same thing. I have heard things before like "draw the energy up your spine and down the front of your body", so I wonder if the central channel goes around the body or if it is just straight going from the crown to the navel?

 

It goes in the centre of the body from the perineum to the top of the head so it's not to be confused with the ones going up the spine and down the front.

[devoid]

Hi Niklas,

 

Good question - you're asking about three meridians / channels / vessels as I understand it: the ren mai and du mai (governing and conception vessels) as well as the chong mai (the penetrating vessel). From an acupuncture point point of view they're all pretty much just beneath the skin, but in some intepretations the chong mai runs very much inside the body from around the dantian and then upwards kind of alongside the inside of the spine towards the centre of the head. Thus, to summarize ren mai and du mai are well defined along the outside of the spine, head, down through the tongue onto the throat and down the front-centre line of the torso, while chong mai is less so well-defined and as a consequence I would say may be subject to what you practice or want to practice.

[Niklas]

Hi Niklas,

 

Good question - you're asking about three meridians / channels / vessels as I understand it: the ren mai and du mai (governing and conception vessels) as well as the chong mai (the penetrating vessel). From an acupuncture point point of view they're all pretty much just beneath the skin, but in some intepretations the chong mai runs very much inside the body from around the dantian and then upwards kind of alongside the inside of the spine towards the centre of the head. Thus, to summarize ren mai and du mai are well defined along the outside of the spine, head, down through the tongue onto the throat and down the front-centre line of the torso, while chong mai is less so well-defined and as a consequence I would say may be subject to what you practice or want to practice.

 

 

Erm... I didn't really understand that. Ren mai and du mai are the side channels and the chong mai is the central channel? The side channels continue around the body whereas the central channel doesn't? I am even more confused now.

 

Does the lower dantian corresponds to the navel chakra (the chakra which is three inches below the navel) ?

[devoid]

Erm... I didn't really understand that. Ren mai and du mai are the side channels and the chong mai is the central channel? The side channels continue around the body whereas the central channel doesn't? I am even more confused now.

 

Does the lower dantian corresponds to the navel chakra (the chakra which is three inches below the navel) ?

 

Ahh, perhaps I misunderstood your initial question - where you trying to ask instead about the breathing channels from Tantric Buddhist Qigong (Jiujie Fofeng)?

 

If that's what you meant there's a central channel (dantian to mouth) and side channels dantian to nostrils - all inside the torso.

 

Perhaps it would help if you could provide some more info as to what you are trying to figure out?

 

The dantian is the sub-naval one - in some measurements 2-4 cun below the naval although some tell you its simply behind the naval and yet others insist it is even further down. Again, if you can be more specific about what you are trying to do it will probably be easier to help you with the answer you are looking for.

[Niklas]

Ahh, perhaps I misunderstood your initial question - where you trying to ask instead about the breathing channels from Tantric Buddhist Qigong (Jiujie Fofeng)?

 

If that's what you meant there's a central channel (dantian to mouth) and side channels dantian to nostrils - all inside the torso.

 

Perhaps it would help if you could provide some more info as to what you are trying to figure out?

 

The dantian is the sub-naval one - in some measurements 2-4 cun below the naval although some tell you its simply behind the naval and yet others insist it is even further down. Again, if you can be more specific about what you are trying to do it will probably be easier to help you with the answer you are looking for.

 

This is not daoism. From your description of the dantian I understand that it corresponds to the navel chakra. Actually I am reading a book "the six yogas of Naropa". When I say the central channel I mean

 

 

The central channel and the side channels. It looks like you are more familiar with the daoist meridians but it must be the same thing?

 

Edit: I found some more information: "Nadis are channels that bring energy to every reach of the subtle body" And the central channel is named "Sushumna".

Edited January 27, 2011 by Niklas

[Cheshire Cat]

Ahh, perhaps I misunderstood your initial question - where you trying to ask instead about the breathing channels from Tantric Buddhist Qigong (Jiujie Fofeng)?

 

Thanks for the reply!

 

Can you tell us something about tantric buddhist qigong?

Very interesting!

[devoid]

This is not daoism. From your description of the dantian I understand that it corresponds to the navel chakra. Actually I am reading a book "the six yogas of Naropa". When I say the central channel I mean

 

[image removed]

 

The central channel and the side channels. It looks like you are more familiar with the daoist meridians but it must be the same thing?

 

Ahh - that explains it - yes, my initial perspective was the Daoist - that's why I spoke about ren mai and du mai when you spoke about breathing (because I assumed you were alluding to the microcosmic orbit). I am not really familiar with indian yogic tradition - sorry for not being able to help you further with that one, but hopefully somebody else can

 

On a side-note: keep in mind that indian systems of chakras differ somewhat from the daoist ones: They are upper, middle and lower dantian (the lower is generally considered the main one and it is the one I have been speaking about in my posts above).

[devoid]

Thanks for the reply!

 

Can you tell us something about tantric buddhist qigong?

Very interesting!

 

Hi DAO rain TAO,

 

I will be happy to tell you what little I know about it.

 

However, I've gotta log off for now, but will try to follow up on this within the next day or two.

[Niklas]

Thanks for the reply!

 

Can you tell us something about tantric buddhist qigong?

Very interesting!

 

I'd like to hear some too. Sounds interesting.

 

If anyone is familiar to the indian yogic tradition and what the chakras and nadis correspond to in the daoist tradition I'd like to hear that too.

[Eric23]

I'm working my through The Yoga of Breath by Richard Rosen. In it he goes through a very good description of the spine itself. If you look carefully at the structure of the vertebrae, you will notice that the spinal cord itself is actually located much deeper in our torsos than we imagine.

[Trunk]

I find an x-ray illustrates this well.

 

click on the image for more fun

[torus693]

v

Edited January 28, 2011 by torus693

[Trunk]

 

Books often illustrate the part/s of the central channel that their practice/s focus on. Within the body it goes from the center of the perineum to the center of the top of the head. Yet it also continues above the head and below the perineum, how far I don't know... certainly at least an arm's length above the head and somewhat below the feet. Practices usually work with the main chakras within the physical body first, then add on.

[joeblast]

I find an x-ray illustrates this well.

 

click on the image for more fun

A quick note, the spinal cord is not where those vertical light blue lines are; the spinal foramen is the dark area behind the weight bearing portions of the vertebrae

[Lucky7Strikes]

from my experience, the MCO and tummo practice (one sort of leads tot he next) both take the yin yang polarities of the body and releases it through alchemical union at the heart, the non dual center of the central channel.

[gj551]

would it be legit to scan a page from a book and post it? (like "chapter three: the ch'ung mo or thrusting channel")

 

the central channel is named "Sushumna".

your referring to tantric (indian) yoga i guess. would you, then, also assign pingala and ida to the governor and function channel? im asking because, well, do you have something that makes this connection or is this your reasoning ? if the latter is true please be so kind and tell me how you came to this conclusion

Edited January 28, 2011 by gj551

[Birch]

"Books often illustrate the part/s of the central channel that their practice/s focus on."

 

Wonderful reminder that maps are still not territory.

 

Thank you Trunk!

[Niklas]

Thanks for the answers everyone!

 

 

 

 

would it be legit to scan a page from a book and post it? (like "chapter three: the ch'ung mo or thrusting channel")

 

 

your referring to tantric (indian) yoga i guess. would you, then, also assign pingala and ida to the governor and function channel? im asking because, well, do you have something that makes this connection or is this your reasoning ? if the latter is true please be so kind and tell me how you came to this conclusion

 

 

OK the book I am reading is this one. You can read some pages there. Part 4 "Awakening the Vajra Body" - Chapter 14 "channels and chakras" (page 103 or sth like that) There he explains it in his own opinion.

But I found "Sushumna" on the internet, by watching

(which is btw a very good video, you should really go visit their website opensourcebuddhism).

In the book he just calls it "central channel" and "side channels", maybe to make it easier for us.

 

 

"Books often illustrate the part/s of the central channel that their practice/s focus on."

 

Wonderful reminder that maps are still not territory.

 

Thank you Trunk!

 

This book illustrates the whole central channel. It's practice is mainly aimed at focusing at the navel chakra. Which is apparently the most important one for experiencing "the bliss of inner fire".

 

 

maps are still not territory.

that reminds me of something... Alfred Korzybski!

But that's when you have to become the map to be the territory.

[Niklas]

from my experience, the MCO and tummo practice (one sort of leads tot he next) both take the yin yang polarities of the body and releases it through alchemical union at the heart, the non dual center of the central channel.

 

 

Yes... The right side channel "Pingala" is red and it represents the sun and heat, so it must be yang in the chinese way, whereas "Ida" the left side channel is white and represents the moon and cold, so it must be the yin. The central channel "Sushumna" is the combination of the two. The two side channels enter the central one at the bottom (before entering the navel chakra). They combine and shoot up the central channel all the way to the crown chakra (I think). It's interesting anyway...

[devoid]

Hi Niklas and DAO rain TAO,

 

I had promised you a follow-up on Tantric Buddhist Qigong. (As a side note, the word 'tantric' has do with the lineage only and what I will talk about here has absolutely nothing to do with sexual practices).

 

The only source of this which I am aware of is from the book "Qigong Empowerment" by Shou-Yu Liang and Wen-ChingWu which is one of my all-time favorites as it really acts as a handbook. The book is divided into 5 sub-books of which number 3 is titled Buddhist Qigong. In it they discuss the tantric buddhist esoterics including body seals, mantras and the mind. After a brief intro to all this they go onto describe a number of qigong exercises in detail: 1) Nine-segment Buddhist breathing (Jiujie Fofeng), 2) Precious vessel qigong (Baopingqi), 3) Achieving through spiritual flame (Lingre Chengjiufa), 4) The great perfection / heart essence (Dayuanman Xinsui), 5) Armor protection from negative energies and 6) The nine esoteric seals (Jiuzi Miling).

 

As the general intro to this chapter is a bit short on what is related to Buddhist meditation techniques in general, it may be a good idea to supplement with the relevant parts of "The Secrets of Chinese Meditation" by K'Uan Lu Yu aka Charles Luk (also the author of the much discussed book Taoist Yoga).

 

I wish you both happy trails in your (re)searching

[Lucky7Strikes]

The two side channels enter the central one at the bottom (before entering the navel chakra). They combine and shoot up the central channel all the way to the crown chakra (I think). It's interesting anyway...

Can you show me where this point exactly is?

[Cheshire Cat]

Hi Niklas and DAO rain TAO,

[...]

 

Thanks!!

[Niklas]

Thank you!

 

OK, in the buddha forum I asked about this book, if it is dangerous or something and I got this reply:

 

"Yes, very dangerous. Without specific instructions, you can't pick up a book on tantra and think, "Wow, what fantastic ideas. I want to practice this right now!" This kind of attitude never brings realizations. You need the guidance of an experienced teacher. Sure, the ideas are fantastic, but if you don't know the method, you can't put them into your own experience; you have to have the key. Many Buddhist books have been translated into English. They'll tell you, "Attachment is bad; don't get angry," but how do you actually abandon attachment and anger? The Bible, too, recommends universal love, but how do you bring universal love into your own experience? You need the key, and sometimes only a teacher can give you that."

 

So maybe it's better to find a teacher before starting to visualize things you are not really sure about

[Vajrahridaya]

Thank you!

 

OK, in the buddha forum I asked about this book, if it is dangerous or something and I got this reply:

 

"Yes, very dangerous. Without specific instructions, you can't pick up a book on tantra and think, "Wow, what fantastic ideas. I want to practice this right now!" This kind of attitude never brings realizations. You need the guidance of an experienced teacher. Sure, the ideas are fantastic, but if you don't know the method, you can't put them into your own experience; you have to have the key. Many Buddhist books have been translated into English. They'll tell you, "Attachment is bad; don't get angry," but how do you actually abandon attachment and anger? The Bible, too, recommends universal love, but how do you bring universal love into your own experience? You need the key, and sometimes only a teacher can give you that."

 

So maybe it's better to find a teacher before starting to visualize things you are not really sure about

 

I fully agree! There is nothing like the guidance of a truly realized master!!! According to my own experience, as well as scripture, this is paramount! Even if you are to be the light of your own lamp... it takes positive influence to know how this is done. The best Master teaches you not how to be a disciple, but how to be a Master, yet one follows the other. The best Master is/was also the best disciple.