prenatal jing and chi-how to cultivate it?

[Non]

how does one go about getting more prenatal chi? are there any methods?

[Gerard]

I have direct experience with the following methods internal methods:

 

1. Walking meditation as part of a Vipassana regime

 

2. Standing Post meditation

 

3. Santi Shi meditation

 

4. Internal Martial Arts

 

They all nourish prenatal jing but you also must implements lifestyle changes: regulate sexual activity, diet, work/study and rest, stress, going late to bed, etc.

[henro]

In Chinese medicine we say that you can't get more jing. You can only protect it, conserve it, use it more slowly. All of that can be done with the practices listed above.

 

Check out this site for some info:

 

http://www.sacredlotus.com/theory/substances/jing.cfm

Edited January 28, 2011 by robmix

[Non]

In Chinese medicine we say that you can't get more jing. You can only protect it, conserve it, use it more slowly. All of that can be done with the practices listed above.

 

Check out this site for some info:

 

http://www.sacredlotus.com/theory/substances/jing.cfm

 

Really?

 

I heard generally it's regarded as "impossible to cultivate" or "get back once it's gone" but only because in practice it's harder.

 

It's just that by tonifying the mother of the deficient element (water-kidney prenatal essence) it doesn't work and so mere breathwork won't do it, but meditation practices might.

 

I might be wrong but this is what a TCM doctor told me who has practiced tai qi qigong xin yi chuan and ba gua for 20 yrs.

 

In TCM it can't be cultivated. What about aside from TCM?

Edited January 28, 2011 by Non

[hagar]

Really?

 

I heard generally it's regarded as "impossible to cultivate" or "get back once it's gone" but only because in practice it's harder.

 

It's just that by tonifying the mother of the deficient element (water-kidney prenatal essence) it doesn't work and so mere breathwork won't do it, but meditation practices might.

 

I might be wrong but this is what a TCM doctor told me who has practiced tai qi qigong xin yi chuan and ba gua for 20 yrs.

 

In TCM it can't be cultivated. What about aside from TCM?

 

The goal of cultivation should not be to increase prenatal jing. The goal should be to let the Jing you have be totally burned up at the moment of death. In most cases, due to unhealthy conditioning, we die before the jing is all spent. Like a candle flame that dies out before it is burned up totally. Thus, we should not chase life-extention, only life stabilization, and in consequence, mind stabilization. Let the light return to the body, and you infuse the body with life. In this way you probably will live well over a hundred years.

 

h

[King Kabalabhati]

The goal of cultivation should not be to increase prenatal jing. The goal should be to let the Jing you have be totally burned up at the moment of death. In most cases, due to unhealthy conditioning, we die before the jing is all spent. Like a candle flame that dies out before it is burned up totally. Thus, we should not chase life-extention, only life stabilization, and in consequence, mind stabilization. Let the light return to the body, and you infuse the body with life. In this way you probably will live well over a hundred years.

 

h

 

AGAIN yet another interesting new viewpoint. Gotta love taobums.

[Astral_Anima]

yeah what would one get out of increasing pre-natal jing? Perhaps other methods can be found based on the goals of the practice. It may be called different things in diff traditions, or the results that you're looking for may be achieved my methods with other names (instead of limiting yourself to one culture/terminology).

 

-Astral

[markern]

The primordial qigong/Wuji qigong form that Michael Winn and Andrew Fretwel and several otehrs teach is suposed to be very god at cultivating post natal jing and also, if you practice it a lot pre natal jing. IT is an awesome and very powerfull and very balancing form. Most people realy like it. It is easy enough to learn from video. Winn teaches to combine it with the inner smile.

[hagar]

The primordial qigong/Wuji qigong form that Michael Winn and Andrew Fretwel and several otehrs teach is suposed to be very god at cultivating post natal jing and also, if you practice it a lot pre natal jing. IT is an awesome and very powerfull and very balancing form. Most people realy like it. It is easy enough to learn from video. Winn teaches to combine it with the inner smile.

 

Do we really know how to recognize the effect, so that we really know what we are working with? What does the effect of prenatal energies really feel like? I for one do not have a clue. Most of what we talk about here are only promises, or statements taken literally.

 

What I do know is that there is something in all of us that was there before we were born, and present constantly through life, yet not part of conditioned energies. Yet this leaves the physical body, and is dispersed. The practice to gather this light back and fusing it with the bodily energy will give the body life; the true nature of our physical presence.

A life's task in an of itself. Why worry about nearly impossible goals?

 

h

[Maddie]

From everything I understand you can not increase the amount of pre-natal jing, but you can conserve what you do have, and try to use as much of your post-natal jing as possible, rather than tap into pre-natal jing.

[NeiChuan]

Only way I've heard is moxa. Other then that not sure.

[henro]

Only way I've heard is moxa. Other then that not sure.

 

 

I looked through my references and couldn't find any info on moxa increasing pre-natal jing. Do you have a reference for that ? That would be some great info to have !!!

 

Moxa is supposed to "penetrate into the muscles, tendons, and bones to activate qi and blood circulation, and warms the peripheral channels and collaterals" (Chen, Chinese Medical Herbology and Pharmacology)

 

I have also heard from one of my qigong teachers that dual cultivation can restore jing, but I have never seen another reference to that so I hesitate to offer that up.

Edited January 28, 2011 by robmix

[gendao]

From everything I understand you can not increase the amount of pre-natal jing, but you can conserve what you do have, and try to use as much of your post-natal jing as possible, rather than tap into pre-natal jing.

The base of this candle represents your Jing or essence. The flame is your Qi or energy, burning brightly and sustaining your being. The aura that is created by the flame is your Shen, the spirit that results.

 

Science, both modern and mystical, has not come up with a way of changing the prenatal Jing. However, we can use what we are given wisely. We can slow the consumption of prenatal Jing by manufacturing more Qi. As mentioned previously, the air that we breathe and the food we consume is converted into acquired essence. This process takes place after a day activity during sleep. Chinese medicine has much to offer in terms of longevity and replenishing postnatal Jing. Daily use of Chinese herbal supplements will nourish the essence, while acupuncture will stimulate and regulate the flow of Qi.

Jing means essence. When speaking of the three treasures it is orginal essence or Yuan Jing. We inherit this essence from our parents were it is stored in the Kidney area. There are 2 types of Jing Prenatal as mentioned before and Post natal which is inquired from substances we put into our body such as food. We are born with a set amount of prenatal Jing however we can accumlate more postnatal Jing. When we loose all of our Jing are body dies. It is said if Jing is kept in its place and Shen(spirit) is rasied then Qi will also be plenty. Now that we have covered the basis of what Jing is where it comes from and what happens if we loose it now is the time to know how we loose it and ways to stop it from leaving. We loose Jing in many ways. The most common way for males is to much sex. Sex results in the Jing to leak out and become transmutated into the substance known as Semen. Other methods included being overly stressed and fatigue and being exposed to cold drafts in which the Jing-men (essence door) cavity the Jing leaks outdue to the cold air being Yin and the Jing being Yin as well. To much Salt can damage the kidneys thus harming Jing as well as Fear. In the Yellow Emperor's classic Qi Bo(Yellow emperor's teacher) explains the different methods and items related to the Kidneys and other five organs. Now How do we keep are Jing in its place?

Firming is called Gu Shen in this case it refers to exercises to regulate the essence(Tiao Jing).

One method is keeping the Jing men cavity which is located in the back warm during cold weather. This is similar to what Japanese when ill wear a Hara-maki(stomach wrap) to keep the kidneys warm and Dan-tian warm two key methods for over rall health.

Second method is massaging the Kidneys in a circle motion towards the Kidneys bringing heat to them. The idea is using the Laogong points which is a cavity related to Yang and fire balances the Yin and water of the Kidneys.

The third method involves the Yongquan or bubbling wells located in the center of the foot. This belongs to the Kidney channel.

 

Fourth method involves regulating sex and losing Jing.

 

These are but a couple of methods related to the Kidneys and Jing. Different schools have different exercises to strengten the Kidneys such as six sound and six color exercise and certain stretches.

The secret to longevity is to use up as little before-heaven Ching as possible while building up a store of after-heaven Ching through Daoist practices, such as Chi-gong, Tai Chi, or Yin Yoga.

The conventional consensus is that you can't really increase xiantian jing - which is more or less like a battery that cannot be recharged. All you can do is increase houtian jing and qi using alternative sources instead of your "battery."

 

 

 

(However I have heard that there may be a way for advanced daoist adepts to affect the prenatal normally unreplenishable/uninfluenceable jing leading to the legendary Daoist immortals but few people accomplish this)

Edited January 28, 2011 by vortex

[Non]

yea, so maybe its just jing that can be cultivated.

 

I guess.. if you've ejaculated a lot, that's it. NO more prenatal jing.

 

What if prenatal jing is not even always supposed to be associated with physical ejaculate but also the release of 'sexual energy/tension' through the contractions?

 

Samuel Aun Weor says even the contractions deplete energy, and in fact is a special energy as much as the physical ejaculate is. Then also according to reuniting.org Marnia says even non-ejaculatory orgasm (the contractory non-ejaculatory "flutter" type a la Mantak Chia's methods) can deplete..

Edited January 28, 2011 by Non

[Birch]

The conventional consensus is that you can't really increase xiantian jing - which is more or less like a battery that cannot be recharged. All you can do is increase houtian jing and qi using alternative sources instead of your "battery."

 

Right. But what about all the attempts to return to your "original face" or whatever before "you" were born? If folks get to that point, then aren't "pre" and "post" heaven jing qi and shen then just confounded? So you're not really "using" either, but Tao is, and as such "doing" without you doing and all that?

 

Sorry, rambling a bit It's just a sort of an idea.

[gendao]

^ Perhaps, I don't know? I think the point is that changing your xiantian jing appears to be somewhat comparable to trying to change your genetics.

 

Conventionally, this would currently be considered "impossible."

 

Although for the rare Taoists who can reach the "immortal" stage...who knows?

 

Would probably be a good question for Wang Liping's next online meet-up.

[Birch]

^ Perhaps, I don't know? I think the point is that changing your xiantian jing appears to be somewhat comparable to trying to change your genetics.

 

Conventionally, this would currently be considered "impossible."

 

 

I dunno. There's a lot of stuff "out there" about modifying or protecting telomeres and some other "stuff" about the genetic "quality" of older vs younger parents and some more "stuff" about gene expression within specific environmental conditions.

 

My present take is that the genetic model is maybe an excuse to shift the materialist/determinist/physicalist model (whatever that is ) "back one" to give it heftier "ground of being" status.

 

I'm not quite sure who's doing the shifting exactly but I'm hoping if that keeps getting done then it will trip over itself into something amazing (and probably what those Taoist immortals already know :-))

[NeiChuan]

I dunno. There's a lot of stuff "out there" about modifying or protecting telomeres and some other "stuff" about the genetic "quality" of older vs younger parents and some more "stuff" about gene expression within specific environmental conditions.

 

My present take is that the genetic model is maybe an excuse to shift the materialist/determinist/physicalist model (whatever that is ) "back one" to give it heftier "ground of being" status.

 

I'm not quite sure who's doing the shifting exactly but I'm hoping if that keeps getting done then it will trip over itself into something amazing (and probably what those Taoist immortals already know :-))

 

Hm.. If we're talking about telamerase, funny thing the taoists did know of this.. Why? because it's in astragalus.. If not in it activates the telamerase in our DNA.

 

Too much activated at one time.. Well we get cancer, but take it everyonce in awhile and it'll make us more youthful.

 

Funny thing this was just recently uncovered through western research and chinese medicine gets no credit.

 

Once again...

Edited January 28, 2011 by NeiChuan

[Birch]

Yup, that'd be it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telomerase

 

So a) how much astragalus is too much (and too often) and how to achieve same effects without the cancer risk? I'd read elsewhere out there, that fasting kicks in processes that achieve longevity as well (you basically switch over from a "reproduction" programme to a self-preservation programme. What's the Taoist take?

[Non]

Yup, that'd be it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telomerase

 

So a) how much astragalus is too much (and too often) and how to achieve same effects without the cancer risk? I'd read elsewhere out there, that fasting kicks in processes that achieve longevity as well (you basically switch over from a "reproduction" programme to a self-preservation programme. What's the Taoist take?

 

you conserve jing also...

[Astral_Anima]

Yup, that'd be it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telomerase

 

So a) how much astragalus is too much (and too often) and how to achieve same effects without the cancer risk? I'd read elsewhere out there, that fasting kicks in processes that achieve longevity as well (you basically switch over from a "reproduction" programme to a self-preservation programme. What's the Taoist take?

 

That depends on how deep you want to go with such an inquiry. Scientists say they can't find any reason why the human body should die, yet we see so much disease and death (usually involuntary) and premature aging. If fasting activates the "self-preservation mode" of the body imagine how long a "breatharian" (assuming that whole thing isn't just a myth) could "remain preserved"; or even just one who fasts regularly. It's been shown that calorie restriction diets extend life. It also (IME) retunes oneself with themself and their environment. One becomes VERY aware and sensitive. Also it's incredible for meditation.

 

This whole subject could put one into a philosophical mind-fuck if they begin to question things like "what is food? what function does it serve? why do we eat? what are we? why do we age? why do we die? how does the body run? what sources of energy can the body utilize? what is our potential?"

 

As for the Taoist take...I believe most "Taoists" would frown upon any great breakthrough or "pushing one's limits to realize truth". Most Toaists I've been exposed to want everyone to live in mediocrity. (not that there's anything wrong with that)

 

-Astral

Edited January 29, 2011 by Astral_Anima

[NeiChuan]

Yup, that'd be it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telomerase

 

So a) how much astragalus is too much (and too often) and how to achieve same effects without the cancer risk? I'd read elsewhere out there, that fasting kicks in processes that achieve longevity as well (you basically switch over from a "reproduction" programme to a self-preservation programme. What's the Taoist take?

 

I Don't know. I believe the mice in the study just had more telomerase added to there DNA and eventually got cancer,they did live much longer before then though. Although, I've been thinking maybe other ingredients counter act this in astragalus naturally. Im not saying if you eat 10 pounds you won't get cancer or die.. Just saying it may prevent it slightly.

 

Also yeah fasting, it keeps your body in starvation mode. Similar to how a fetus is if in the third trimester isn't receiving as much food. Being that when it's born its body is extremely picky with its minerals. Meaning it needs much less minerals and such to get through the day, there for the body doesn't have to work as hard. Also needs less food in all..

 

So yes your body works less and saves more energy over the years, I think when people are older this may help them the most.. and ofcourse not eating more then they can handle when they're young lol.

Edited January 29, 2011 by NeiChuan

[youzifive]

I have the same question. May I co-ask question for Wang Liping's next online meet-up.

 

^ Perhaps, I don't know? I think the point is that changing your xiantian jing appears to be somewhat comparable to trying to change your genetics.

 

Conventionally, this would currently be considered "impossible."

 

Although for the rare Taoists who can reach the "immortal" stage...who knows?

 

Would probably be a good question for Wang Liping's next online meet-up.

[Desert Eagle]

So did anyone ask master Wang Liping? What was his answer?

 

How many ejaculations until total prenatal jing loss?

 

What are the symptoms?

Edited July 13, 2011 by Desert Eagle

[ChiDragon]

1. How many ejaculations until total prenatal jing loss?

 

2. What are the symptoms?

 

1. If one does it too often, like three to five times a day.

2. The symptoms are showing fatigue, breathing problem, lack of concentration, loss of memory, pain on the left side of the abdomen, loss of all interests with no egos, loss of self esteem and hallucinating.

Edited July 14, 2011 by ChiDragon