Fun conversation from www.gnostic-community.org

[manitou]

 

In Master Samael's viewpoint the alchemy provides the raw materials for both the annihilation of the ego and the raising of the kundalini.

 

 

I just had an interesting thought. (I'm kind of out there metaphysically today, so maybe I should apologize in advance)...

 

The Biblical story in Genesis. It starts with a snake. (Actually, a talking snake as per Bill Maher). At some very high cosmic level, perhaps the beginning of the Judaeo-Christain thought-bubble starting as a snake is analogous with the kundalini snake rising? In the biblical analogy, God gave Adam and Eve the choice of towing the line or going about it the hard way - the way of man attaining his own knowledge. As previously said on this thread, the earnest attempt to rid oneself of ego will result in clarity of knowledge - or kundalini rising. It seems to be one and the same.

 

I also sometimes wonder if the Apple logo which appears all over our current culture (including a bite out of it!) doesn't somehow finish a circle of events that started out with the first bite of the apple in Eden? The end of the Christian thought-bubble of sorts?

 

It just seems that all of the mainstream religions have many of the same lessons written into them, different scenarios. Perhaps all religions all over the world are separate thought bubbles supplied at the time of the Ancients; and it remains for us all to see that it is all just the same thing.

[Shen Chi Jing]

I just had an interesting thought. (I'm kind of out there metaphysically today, so maybe I should apologize in advance)...

 

The Biblical story in Genesis. It starts with a snake. (Actually, a talking snake as per Bill Maher). At some very high cosmic level, perhaps the beginning of the Judaeo-Christain thought-bubble starting as a snake is analogous with the kundalini snake rising? In the biblical analogy, God gave Adam and Eve the choice of towing the line or going about it the hard way - the way of man attaining his own knowledge. As previously said on this thread, the earnest attempt to rid oneself of ego will result in clarity of knowledge - or kundalini rising. It seems to be one and the same....

 

...It just seems that all of the mainstream religions have many of the same lessons written into them, different scenarios. Perhaps all religions all over the world are separate thought bubbles supplied at the time of the Ancients; and it remains for us all to see that it is all just the same thing.

 

Not to speak for "broken", however the following video addresses your concerns quite thoroughly:

 

Sex: The Secret Gate to Eden

 

There's also a thread about this video on TheTaobums forums here somewhere too.

 

 

I also sometimes wonder if the Apple logo which appears all over our current culture (including a bite out of it!) doesn't somehow finish a circle of events that started out with the first bite of the apple in Eden? The end of the Christian thought-bubble of sorts?

 

I'd first wondered about this not too long ago myself.

 

Technology isn't bad in itself; yet it has overall become so out of tune with nature, that a symbol for fornication and its subsequent fall into the lower realms of samsara seems like an appropriate stamp for something (i.e. technology that is more or less a product of the ego rather than Awakened Consciousness), that, like fornication itself, has run amok and is so rampant these days.

 

As is suggested in the Torah and Zohar, to partake of the fruits of the Tree of Life is healthy nourishment for our Buddha Nature. Although to eat the forbidden fruit of the Tree of Knowledge is to invite getting our minds tangled up in the five poisons. Nevertheless, to enjoy the aroma (amora) of the Tree of Knowledge without biting it, is the Key of Da'ath.

 

 

Best Regards

Edited October 16, 2011 by Shen Chi Jing

[michael245]

@Shen Chi Jing. When I say "classic gnostics", I am only referring to ancient gnostics.Samael Aun Weor believed he was "literally" Kalki,not metaphorically.I find your anti homo-sexual remarks quite unpleasant.I see bigots like you all the time,that being said,hence,I have compassion for all suffering beings.The online video called "sex secret gate to eden", glorifies the prophet muhammad.But,historically prophet Muhammad had a 9 year old wife,therefore he was a disgusting blatant child molestor,what do you have to say about that?

Edited October 16, 2011 by michael245

[Shen Chi Jing]

@Shen Chi Jing. When I say "classic gnostics", I am only referring to ancient gnostics.

 

And these same Ancient Classic Gnostics went underground and continued to work through Secret Societies like the original Masons and Rosicrucians.

 

 

Samael Aun Weor believed he was "literally" Kalki,not metaphorically.

 

Like I said, perhaps he is actually the Kalki Avatar. Every Astrological Age of the Precession of the Equinoxes has its Avatar.

 

 

I find your anti homo-sexual remarks quite unpleasant.I see bigots like you all the time,that being said,hence,I have compassion for all suffering beings.

 

Buddha Shakyamuni and the Dalai Lama also reject homosexuality.

 

 

"In Gnosis we know from our teacher that we must never condemn a person for his wrong actions, because we are all equally guilty (Let he who is wihtout sin cast the first stone.) Yet, simultaneously, we must also clearly and constantly indicate what those wrong actions are, and homosexuality is one among them. This activity causes suffering. It is similar to many other harmful actions one can pursue, and can stop. Although our modern society is desperately attempting to make this practice acceptable, this is only due to recurrence of past events and the will of a large number of very powerful, very degenerated persons. It does not make it proper or correct. As we know, morals and ethics are the product of personality and time. Yet the Law of the Christ is beyond individuality, time, or desire. To become one with that, one must shed all activity which conflicts with the Great Law."

 

 

The online video called "sex secret gate to eden", glorifies the prophet muhammad.But,historically prophet Muhammad had a 9 year old wife,therefore he was a disgusting blatant child molestor,what do you have to say about that?

 

I say that even if Muhammad literally had a nine year old wife, that he didn't actually have sexual relations with her until she was at least a few years older. Ramakrishna is said to have married Sarada Devi when she was an infant. Of course he wouldn't have performed the Shorashi Puja with Sahaja Maithuna with her until she was at least in her teens or older.

 

 

Best Regards

Edited October 21, 2011 by Shen Chi Jing

[konchog uma]

as to your link Shen Chi Jing thats absurd

 

Pandaka translates as "eunich" "pervert" "deviant" "hermaphrodite" and a bunch of other words. That passage did not say that the buddha addressed homosexuality as such but that he made example of one singe pandaka. Use logic please. Oh wait, i forgot, you can't do that and be homophobic at the same time.

 

who cares what the dalai lama thinks about homos? he might be talking about monastic buddhism. its impossible to tell since thats one quotation out of context, but in monasteries, homosexual sex is a problem since everyone gets so pent up. its like jail. ask any monk... heheh i bet they'll blush.

 

who cares what the dalai lama thinks about homos anyway, use your own mind. If you have something against them, thats your problem, if the dalai lama has something against them, thats his problem. I think the whole issue is ridiculous, some people are gay, deal with it. Morality has nothing to do with homosexuality.

[Shen Chi Jing]

To address what you said here for now:

 

in monasteries, homosexual sex is a problem since everyone gets so pent up. its like jail.

 

Apparently Samael Aun Weor (who wrote that he had confirmed that the 14th Dalai Lama is a realized Master) was saddened when he had discovered that a big cause for many Buddhist monks engaging in sexual misconduct like masturbation and homosexuality, was due to the Lamas making the monks wait too long to receive Karmamudra instructions.

 

Also:

 

"The Arcanum A.Z.F. (Oordhvareta) was practiced within the ashrams of ancient India. At that time, yogis were prepared for sexual magic with the white vajroli. Unfortunately, the brothers and sisters of the temple committed scandalous acts, which discredited sexual magic. The Gurujis then pulled the curtains of esoterism shut, and the Arcanum A.Z.F. was forbidden. However, the initiated yogis, male and female, secretively practiced the Arcanum A.Z.F. Apparently even this was forbidden.

 

"In reality, the decision to forbid the Arcanum A.Z.F. caused more damage than good, because the Brahmacharya system resulted in failure. This was due to the fact that no one was able to remain in Brahmacharya (absolute sexual abstinence). Those who remain sexually abstinent supposedly keep their semen. Yet, they suffer from nocturnal emissions. This is how their accumulated semen is lost. Thus, these individuals turn themselves into victims of the abyss.

"Unfortunately, after six hundred years, the message of the Adorable One was adulterated, and the Church of Rome returned to the dead forms of Buddhist monasticism, with its cloistered monks and nuns who mortally hate the path of the Perfect Matrimony. That is how after six hundred years of Christianity another message about the Perfect Matrimony became necessary. Then came Mohammed, the great preacher of the Perfect Matrimony. Naturally, as always, Mohammed was violently rejected by infrasexual men who hate women. This disgusting society of enemies of women believe that only by compulsory celibacy can one reach God. This is a crime.

 

"Sexual abstinence as preached by infrasexual people is absolutely impossible. Nature rebels against that type of abstention. Nocturnal emissions is the outcome of celibacy that inevitably ruins the organism. Every person who sexually abstains, suffers nocturnal emissions. A cup that fills up will inevitably overflow. The luxury of sexual abstention is only possible for those who have already reached the Kingdom of the Super-Man. These people have already transformed their organisms into mechanisms of eternal sexual transmutation. They have already trained their glands with Sexual Magic. They are human-Gods. They are the result of many years of Sexual Magic and of rigorous education in sexual physiology."

 

"Buddha, Jesus, Krishna, Mohammad, Quetzalquatl, etc., all practiced sexual magic, yet they did so in secrecy. In the previous era, in order to be initiated into the mysteries of sexuality, one had to first purify themselves through many years of intense efforts, and only then would they be told the secret of sexual magic.

 

"For example, a Tibetan monk who claimed that he had reached the stage of anuttarayoga tantra asked the Thirteenth Dalai Lama if he could practice with a consort; when the Dalai Lama asked for proof of his attainment, this monk took a yak's horn and tied it into a knot, therefore demonstrating his mastery over energy and matter. Only then did the Dalai Lama give his blessing for this monk to practice the Highest Yoga Tantrayana (sexual magic).

 

"In the past everything related with sexual magic was kept in the deepest secrecy in order to preserve it. Since 1950, the teachings have been revealed so that all who would use them can. Now the mysteries of Eden (sex) are given to anyone who wishes to take advantage of them."

"...it is true that from the Tantric perspective, the transformation of impressions will extract comprehension from any type of impression. However, most students are not established in the Mahayana (vehicle of conscious realization of the Absolute through compassionate action: Bodhichitta) or even the Shravakayana (vehicle of foundational ethics and renunciation of negative behavior). As the Dalai Lama stated quite bluntly in How to Practice a Way to a Meaningful Life:"

"Such a (Tantric) practitioner can make spiritual use not only of delicious meat and drink, but even of human excrement and urine. A yogi's meditation transforms these into real ambrosia. For people like us, however, this is beyond our reach. As long as you cannot transform piss and shit, these other things should not be done!"

 

 

Although now the Dalai Lama speaks quite openly about Karmamudra in many of his writings.

 

 

Sarva Mangalam

Edited October 21, 2011 by Shen Chi Jing

[michael245]

shen chi jing, the samael aun weor video has false info in it because it claims one has to be in a sexual relationship and perform sex magick to raise the sexual energy up the pine.This sex magick theory is false.I find it weird that you are a bigot towards homo sexuals and at the same time you show favortism towards a disgusting child molestor named muhammad.What you think you know about sexual energy,makes you a poser.It's okay ,you'll understand it one of these days.

Edited October 22, 2011 by michael245

[Aaron]

Forum hiccuped and I double posted... sorry about that.

 

Aaron

Edited October 23, 2011 by Twinner

[Aaron]

I was going to stay out of this thread, because I'm not a follower of any of the religions being discussed, but I need to shake off the good nature that I have been caught up in and come down to the pragmatic level so that the things being professed in this thread can be pulled out into the light and exposed for what they really are.

 

First Mohammed did marry a nine year old girl, but what most people don't know about the story, or choose to leave out, was that she was orphaned and had no one to care for her, so Mohammed married her to ensure someone was caring for her, but there has never been any evidence that he consummated that marriage until after the girl was of a respected age for that time. That's all I will say about Mohammed because I understand that people can be easily offended in these discussions.

 

Second when we talk about sexuality, masturbation, homosexuality, and alcoholism, one thing that we should also address is that our knowledge of these practices has increased immeasurably since the times these backwards ideas flourished in certain cultures.

 

Now regarding the remarks made in this thread about masturbators. From a psychological and scientific point of view there is nothing wrong with masturbation, it's enjoyable and actually quite healthy in moderation. From a spiritual point of view it is also healthy, because it is a release of stress and this release of stress allows one to be able to focus their life on spiritual goals without this distraction. Those who place limits on sexual behavior, including masturbation, more often than not, use this as a means to control their followers through guilt. In my own flavor of spirituality I not only encourage masturbation in moderation, but discourage people from chastity that includes excluding masturbation.

 

Another remark that showed a great deal of ignorance was in regards to alcoholism. Alcoholism is not only treatable, but the best way to treat alcoholism is by encouraging a regiment of spirituality and deep introspection. Now most people who are alcoholics will either not seek treatment or fail in recovery because they have no sincere desire to quit drinking, but those who do have a much higher chance of recovery if they have a strong support network that is willing to help them in their struggle. As men (and women) of a spiritual persuasion it should seem quite logical that we would desire to help those rare individuals triumph over such a debilitating illness if we are capable of doing so.

 

The comment that most disturbed me was in regards to homosexuality. It amazes me that today we can still condemn two adults for loving each other and performing acts that harm no one involved (including themselves). This too is a means of control used my religious authorities, simply because it restricts the nature of sex and defines sex in a healthy way according to strict guidelines that enable these authorities to exert their authority over those who fail to follow their rule. Now there are cultures where homosexuality is not only allowed, but those homosexuals also have a valued place within their community. The problem with most western cultures is that they are following an outdated mode of ethos that involves judeo-christian ethics that were created well over 2,000 years ago.

 

The fact of the matter is that the winner of the war writes history. Christians, Muslims, and Buddhists, for the most part have won the wars. These are the three largest religions in the world and as a result they have kept these ideas regarding sin alive for, again, over 2,000 years. Now the ray of hope is that even within these communities people are starting to wake up and realize that just because something was deemed wrong and sinful all those years ago, doesn't necessarily mean they still are. Progress is needed in all things, including religion and until we are able to understand that blindly following what's been handed down will only lead to the recurring bloodshed and violence will we be able to stop this bloodshed and say enough is enough.

 

So for those who hate masturbators, homosexuals, and alcoholics, I say you are being deceived. If God in any manifestation you choose to see him as, did not intend for these things to happen, then he would've clearly not allowed them to happen. If God did not love the masturbator, homosexual, and alcoholic, then it seems like he would be more than capable of dealing with them on his own. If you claim you are acting on the behalf of God making these decrees, then perhaps you should ask what gives you the right to do that? Did God come down and tell you directly, if not have you asked him to direct you? Has he given you a personal reply? If not then perhaps you should not rely on the words of others simply because they have said he has. Think for yourself and allow yourself to cultivate compassion in your life and perhaps you will be able to see past these things and understand that we are at a crossroads where many of the horrible things that have been perpetrated on this world for uncounted centuries can be stopped and all people can find the capacity for love in their lives, not love as it is dictated by ideology, but rather love as it is dictated by the virtue that lives within the deepest part of the human heart and universe.

 

Aaron

Edited October 22, 2011 by Twinner

[Shen Chi Jing]

It is actually taught in the Gnostic tradition that bachelor Yogins can send some Kundalini energy up the spine with Pranayama and such (even without Sahaja-Maithuna or Karmamudra) as to store Ojas in the Heart Chakra and stay in Chastity. However, the Gnostic Sex: The Secret Gate to Eden video is saying that the Kundalini Serpent Herself can only be fully awakened with Sexual Magic (Karmamudra) between a Woman and a Man.

 

 

Also, it wasn't said that anyone should hate alcoholics, masturbators, homosexuals, etc. In fact, we should have a lot of compassion for them.

 

I'd simply pointed out that one cannot enter Initiation in any authentic tradition while continuing to engage in the said vices (and it's not only the Abrahamic traditions that state this).

 

I use to exist as a masturbator and alcoholic, and then I realized the harm in it, so I've stopped. And it wasn't easy.

 

Anyhow, it's a false "new age" idea thinking that anyone would be able to enter Initiation while continuing with those vices. An analogy that one Gnostic Instructor used, was that it would be like trying to ride a bicycle in opposite directions at the same time.

 

This being said, what's more compassionate:

 

Encouraging people to continue to engage in harmful activities that cause suffering?

 

Or sharing knowledge about the benefits of stopping those harmful actions, and sharing the methods to actually achieve it so that people can begin to eliminate the causes of suffering?

 

 

Sarva Mangalam

Edited October 23, 2011 by Shen Chi Jing

[Birch]

Ok, what I've read about this stuff is that:

 

- alcohol is grounding.

- sex energy 'dissipated' means its not available for 'other stuff'

 

 

The 'other stuff' is what the practitioners want to get to so they say 'no' to the stuff that prevents them from doing it.

 

How a 'practical' matter becomes a moral issue is kind of funny. But whatever.

[Shen Chi Jing]

Ok, what I've read about this stuff is that:

 

- alcohol is grounding.

- sex energy 'dissipated' means its not available for 'other stuff'

 

Or as Samael Aun Weor says, that alcohol is like the very grease of the Wheel of Samsara.

 

 

The 'other stuff' is what the practitioners want to get to so they say 'no' to the stuff that prevents them from doing it.

 

How a 'practical' matter becomes a moral issue is kind of funny. But whatever.

 

It isn't really a moral issue per-sé, because morals are subjective.

 

Here is an example of abiding in the Natural State of our own Being (being able to actually be aware of the First Law); versus someone caught up in the moving mind of Samsara (in this latter case it would be wise to heed the mechanics of cause and effect by following the Second Law (the Vinaya, Ten Commandments, Shariah, etc.), that is at least until Knowing that we are at the level of Being to be able to be aware of and follow the First Law):

 

 

Judging Adulterers

 

Even though adultery is a grave action, the truth of whether it has been committed or not is only known to the Divine. Even extrasensory perceptions can be mistaken. Thus, we have no reliable way to accurate judge whether someone else is an adulterer or not. Judging others based on gossip or observation of physical circumstances is insufficient, because we do not know all the facts, especially the will of the Innermost of the person we are observing. If God approves of their actions, who are we to judge? And if God approves, then God will account for it. A good example of this is in the Bible. If we were to apply merely the written law to David, the King of Israel, who not only coveted another man's wife, but arranged for him to die so he could have her himself, we would have to judge him as guilty of numerous faults. Yet, God did not condemn him in accordance with the written law. Why?

 

King David, after what happened to him with Batsheva, was very fearful. Because at that time, Dumah ascended to the Holy One, blessed be He, stood before Him, and said, O Master of the universe, in the Torah it says of "the man that commits adultery with another man's wife [that]...the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death" (Vayikra 20:10). Furthermore, it is written, "Moreover, you shall not lie carnally with your neighbor's wife to defile yourself with her" (Ibid.18:20). So what is to become of David, who has profaned the Holy Covenant by desecrating his Brit (genital organ) by committing sexual misconduct? The Holy One, blessed be He, said to him, "David is righteous! And the Holy Covenant remains intact, because it is known to Me that Bat-Sheva was assigned to him since the day the world was created. - Zohar 1 Prologue:14

 

Furthermore, what can we say of Jakob, who by the command of God, had four successive wives, Leah, Rachel, Bilhah, and Zilpah? Or Muhammed, with his many wives? Or Padmasambhava, a key founder of Tibetan Buddhism, who had innumerable sexual partners? Or Samael Aun Weor, who also took a consort near the end of his last life? To understand these examples and avoid falling into the mistake of judging or condemning what we do not know, it is important that we understand that there are two laws:

 

The First Law: the instructions given directly to the Human Soul by the Innermost or Inner Buddha

 

The Second Law: the written law, the vows, commandments, and other guidelines in religions (the commandments are given in Deuteronomy, which comes from deutero, second)

 

 

To modify our own destiny is possible because, “when an inferior law is transcended by a superior law, the superior law washes away the inferior law.” - Samael Aun Weor

 

The instructions given by God transcend the written law. The physical senses are not a reliable tool to measure the superior, first law. Thus, we cannot judge others based upon what we hear, are told, or even by what we see with our eyes. It is not our place to judge, but only to love others and have compassion for them.

 

 

The archangel Michael went down, and took Abraham upon a chariot of the cherubim, and lifted him up into the air of heaven, and led him upon the cloud, together with sixty angels, and Abraham ascended upon the chariot over all the earth, and saw all things that are below on the earth, both good and bad. Looking down upon the earth, he saw a man committing adultery with a wedded woman, and turning to Michael he said, "Send fire from heaven to consume them." Straightway there came down fire and consumed them, for God had commanded Michael to do whatsoever Abraham should ask him to do. He looked again, and he saw thieves digging through a house, and Abraham said, "Let wild beasts come out of the desert, and tear them in pieces," and immediately wild beasts came out of the desert and devoured them. Again he looked down, and he saw people preparing to commit murder, and he said, "Let the earth open and swallow them," and, as he spoke, the earth swallowed them alive. Then God spoke to Michael: "Turn away Abraham to his own house and let him not go round the whole earth, because he has no compassion on sinners, but I have compassion on sinners, that they may turn and live and repent of their sins, and be saved." - Jewish, from Haggada

Jesus went unto the mount of Olives. And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them. And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with [his] finger wrote on the ground, [as though he heard them not]. So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. And they which heard [it], being convicted by [their own] conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, [even] unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. - Christian, from John 8

 

Jesus did not condemn the adulterous woman. Furthermore, tradition states that he took a repented prostitute for his wife: Mary Magdalene. Thus, who are we to judge anyone?

 

 

Sarva Mangalam

Edited October 23, 2011 by Shen Chi Jing

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[Aaron]

It is taught in the Gnostic tradition that bachelor Yogins can send some Kundalini energy up the spine with Pranayama and such (and without Sexual Magic) as to store Ojas in the Heart Chakra. However, the Gnostic Sex: The Secret Gate to Eden video is saying that the Kundalini Serpent Herself can only be fully awakened with Sexual Magic (Karmamudra) between a Woman and a Man.

 

 

Also, it wasn't said that anyone should hate alcoholics, masturbators, homosexuals, etc. In fact, we should have a lot of compassion for them.

 

I'd simply pointed out that one cannot enter Initiation in any authentic tradition while continuing to engage in the said vices (and it's not only the Abrahamic traditions that state this).

 

I use to exist as a masturbator and alcoholic, and then I realized the harm in it, so I've stopped. And it wasn't easy.

 

Anyhow, it's a false "new age" idea thinking that anyone would be able to enter Initiation while continuing with those vices. An analogy that one Gnostic Instructor used, was that it would be like trying to ride a bicycle in opposite directions at the same time.

 

This being said, what's more compassionate:

 

Encouraging people to continue to engage in harmful activities that cause suffering?

 

Or sharing knowledge about the benefits of stopping those harmful actions, and sharing the methods to actually achieve it so that people can begin to eliminate the causes of suffering?

 

 

Sarva Mangalam

 

So Shen Chi Jing how are these people suffering, other than the alcoholic of course? Oh God, they are experiencing an orgasm and having sex with someone they are attracted too! Stop that immediately, don't you know that life is about suffering! You must suffer, if you are enjoying life, then you will never be able to reach enlightenment. Our members must abstain from enjoying life or anything like that.

 

And all the while boys are being molested in temples, monks are engaging in homosexual acts, and it's all swept under the rug, because refraining from sexual acts is necessary to achieve enlightenment. It's bullshit actually, it's just, as I said, one of the ways that you enforce your will over others.

 

If you want to completely control the way someone behaves, you must control their most basic needs. Control their sexual behavior, food, and thoughts, to the best of your ability.

 

Whether it's christianity, buddhism, or any other 'ism', the goal for most of the top church officials, isn't to spread the faith, but to gain more power for themselves.

 

When you can name me a religion where they've taught their followers to overcome their sexual desires in a way that they didn't act on them, then I'll believe that they have something down, but so far I've yet to see one. Christians, muslims, buddhists, hindus, jews, taoists, and the list goes on...

 

Compassion is not encouraging someone to deny those things that are free to them... masturbation, sex, and of course love for one another, but rather to encourage people to enjoy the life they have.

 

I really get tired of all the bigots on this forum.

 

Aaron

[Birch]

[Aaron]

Dangerous topic,

 

in spirituality in new age terms the thoughts and intent are physical things.

On Physical level it harm not really anyone and also sexuality is privat.

It hurt those who know of the privacy in the terms of taste.

Who told them to drop ears and tell it others.

 

On energylevel it looks different. Thoughts and Intent affect the surrounding

and can have on weaker labil person in society an enourmous effect.

A reason why spirtual people should be ethical, moral and calm beause they influencial beings. There thought and feeling are intense and cultivated.

 

Sexual energy are mostly bound with intense. And the reason it called dirty is not

the act but what I draws. It is magical act. When masturbate there is mostly

a fictive person, being or even from someone who lives, the sexual energy charges them

as one hold them long enough to produce thought forms with intense emotion.

 

The energy goes and feed this new being which can if it became individual and

harms other by becoming an incubbus or sucubus. Produced beings will give this person to take responsibility for the damage.

 

If it is someone who is alive : This will send to this person.

A famous star has a hard time as it deals with different foreign energy

causing them in downfall, excess, imbalances in character, especially they attractive.

 

For the homosexual this is free will for the energy.

 

But on thought level their presence may have an altering effect and cause those

I do not know what entity attracted when same polarized act is happening.

 

And sideeffet are the thoughts which draw negative entity and elementals, forces and energy into the space, first attracted from the free sexual energy, then from the emotion and the thoughts. Unlucky when portals are opened.

 

Some society give such people a place and acceptance as thoughts creates, hatred, anger, fear, aggressiv, hostility are seen as much worse.

Bordells as it concentrates various foreign energy,beings, emotional charge in the walls. Which you from this perspective can indeed call it Temple of Lust.

 

 

While the man of god try to concentrate on those of his deity seeking the higher realms, doing lots of cleansing, purifying to get rid of those who would distract his connection to the sphere the deity lives.

This people "see" the effects and they do not want see the break of family

especially children go into influence of forces this commoners can not sense,

make them thinking it is fully their decision.

Well even man of god have different intelligence and development so their solution

looks different.

 

It is a manmade decision how to deal this.

 

Q

 

Hello Friend,

 

I understand what you're saying and why you believe what you do, but I disagree. I wont argue with you about it, because I see you are not saying these things with the intent of labeling anyone anything, but rather expressing why you believe certain people should behave in certain ways. In other words, although you might disagree with these actions, I do not sense that you are a bigot.

 

Aaron

[Shen Chi Jing]

-K-

 

If you read again the words in bold within the quote brackets in my previous post, it is explained quite clearly. Or perhaps there is something more specific you're referring to?

 

 

Twinner

 

No one said that denying the sexual act is the way to God. Quite the opposite actually.

 

This was already addressed in this thread, in the following post:

 

Post #31 by "Shen Chi Jing"

Edited October 23, 2011 by Shen Chi Jing

[Birch]

-K-

 

If you read again the words in bold within the quote brackets in my previous post, it is explained quite clearly. Or perhaps there is something more specific you're referring to?

 

 

Twinner

 

No one said that denying the sexual act is the way to God. Quite the opposite actually.

 

This was already addressed in this thread in the following post:

 

Post #31 by "Shen Chi Jing"

 

The rest of the words. Not in bold. What were they there for? You could have just put the bolded stuff by itself. But I read through the rest and was attempting to 'get it'.

[Aaron]

-K-

 

If you read again the words in bold within the quote brackets in my previous post, it is explained quite clearly. Or perhaps there is something more specific you're referring to?

 

 

Twinner

 

No one said that denying the sexual act is the way to God. Quite the opposite actually.

 

This was already addressed in this thread in the following post:

 

Post #31 by "Shen Chi Jing"

 

I understand that you posted that, but you can't post that and then say the things you did about "alcoholics, masturbators, homosexuals, etc." and claim no foul. Your comments do not reflect enlightenment or wisdom, but rather stem from the ideology that you have learned. One who has reached a state of enlightenment knows sex has very little to do with enlightenment. It is not required in any way for one to abstain from sex in order to achieve an awareness, rather it requires discipline, dedication, and openness. If one is able to maintain these characteristics in their practice then they can eat whatever they want, have sex (and masturbate), drink alcohol (moderately), and enjoy any other vice in moderation, because they will and can understand that these things are transient and in knowing their transient nature appreciate these acts for what they actually are.

 

So the monk should, have sex before they reach enlightenment and after reaching enlightenment continue to have sex, because in reaching enlightenment they will understand that no act is sinful, nor is any act right or wrong, rather an act is an act, and in knowing this, their desire is to be compassionate, not deny others the pleasures that they have in this life, monk or layman.

 

Aaron

Edited October 23, 2011 by Twinner

[konchog uma]

Dogma generally stands between seekers and what they seek. So, of course (duh) does bigotry.

 

And lumping sexual deviants (read: those whose behaviors the dogmatic and bigoted disapprove of) in with alcoholics is just nonsense. Thats a misrepresentation of the truth.

 

Alcoholism is one thing, and its a bad thing. SCJ might advocate that we all just stop spilling our seed so we can become one with God, but that can be dangerous for most people. Like most manifestations of repression.

 

And as to the whole homosexual thing, thats just bigotry. Doggerel, nonsense, the kind of pseudo-religious hogwash that I would expect to find in other forums, but surprised to see on TTB. Don't expect to convince me that homos aren't allowed in any "authentic" traditions just cause you say so, thats BS pure and stinky. There are traditions of spirituality and cultivation that allow gay men and women into their ranks. Get serious.

 

The marks of spiritual achievement are acceptance, tolerance, openmindedness, moderation, etc.

 

I have no idea where youre coming from SCJ but it sounds closedminded in the extreme.

[Shen Chi Jing]

Twinner

 

You keep implying that I said that one should refrain from sex. I never said such a thing.

 

 

-K-

 

The rest of the text is relating specific examples of what is quoted in bold. I included it to give more of a context to what is quoted there in bold. If there's anything specific you want to know, I'll do my best to correctly address it.

 

 

anamatva

 

Retention of the semen is not repression, if it is transmuted. And transmutation is the key to the relationship between Sex and Spirituality. To separate Sex from Spirituality is not a holistic view. The two are closely related because the sexual energy is at the root of Creation Itself. How else are you even here having this conversation, if not for sex? As above, so below. The harmonious cultivation of Sexual Energy is common knowledge among Initiates, whether Taoist, Buddhist, Hindu, Hebrew, Yoruba, Sufi, etc.

 

 

Sarva Mangalam

Edited October 23, 2011 by Shen Chi Jing

[Protector]

the hell are you guys talking about

[konchog uma]

 

anamatva

 

Retention of the semen is not repression, if it is transmuted. And transmutation is the key to the relationship between Sex and Spirituality. To separate Sex from Spirituality is not a holistic view. The two are closely related because the sexual energy is at the root of Creation Itself. How else are you even here having this conversation, if not for sex? As above, so below. The harmonious cultivation of Sexual Energy is common knowledge among Initiates, whether Taoist, Buddhist, Hindu, Hebrew, Yoruba, Sufi, etc.

 

 

you didn't say originally "semen retention", you said masturbating was a deviant act and in the same category with alcoholism. i am not seperating sex from spirituality don't play word games with me. Your post has nothing to do with what i said, and nothing to do with what you were saying. I'm not going to get into one of these conversations.

[Shen Chi Jing]

Anamatva

 

My mistake. I got your post mixed up with part of Twinner's post because I was trying to finish my post before I have to log off. Speaking of which, I'll try to come back to this thread later to reply to your post, and to provide further explanation of what I meant in regard to transmutation.

 

 

Best Regards

Edited October 23, 2011 by Shen Chi Jing

[Aaron]

Edited- The original poster deleted their post, so in respect I deleted my reply.

 

Aaron

Edited October 23, 2011 by Twinner