Shen Chi Jing Posted October 27, 2011 (edited) I really doubt that the sexually deviant monks you speak of were even practicing Pranayama at all. The fact that you think that Pranayama is about removing the desire for sex, shows that you wouldn't know if it works or not, because you are ignorant regarding the very nature of it. Pranayama is not supposed to remove the desire for sex. It is supposed to transmute it to enough of a degree for us to be able to remain in physical chastity. Yet Samael Aun Weor recognized that even Pranayama is not enough to prevent wet-dreams in the long run. That's why he recommended that Spiritual aspirants be open to the idea of eventual Marriage. Nevertheless, Samael Aun Weor still taught it because it helps. This is why the Dalai Lama said that in the Higher Tantras, even wet dreams are a Tantric downfall; because he knows that with the Karmamudra Sex of White Tantra, we can avoid wet-dreams altogether. Sarva Mangalam Edited October 27, 2011 by Shen Chi Jing 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aaron Posted October 27, 2011 (edited) I really doubt that the sexually deviant monks you speak were even practicing Pranayama at all. The fact that you think that Pranayama is about removing the desire for sex, shows that you wouldn't know if it works or not, because you are ignorant regarding the very nature of it. Pranayama is not supposed to remove the desire for sex. It is supposed to transmute it to enough of a degree for us to be able to remain in physical chastity. Yet Samael Aun Weor recognized that even Pranayama is not enough to prevent wet-dreams in the long run. That's why he recommended that Spiritual aspirants be open to the idea of eventual Marriage. Nevertheless, Samael Aun Weor still taught it because it helps. This is why the Dalai Lama said that in the Higher Tantras, even wet dreams are a Tantric downfall; because he knows that with the Karmamudra Sex of White Tantra, we can avoid wet-dreams altogether. Sarva Mangalam I must be a tantric master then, because I've never had a wet dream in my life, even when I was chaste for a few years. (I happened to be in a cult that told me all the things you're telling everyone here, which is one of the reasons I'm telling people that it's bullshit. I also learned that the easiest way to ensure devotion is to reinforce guilt, that's the reason for all of this.) Transmutation... call it what you want, but it's just a method that's supposed to diminish lust, which doesn't work. Do you think only a few monks are practicing these things? From my understanding it's like prison in those places, the higher monks choose the younger monks and the younger monks can't say no and they have no place to turn to for help, because if they go to the head monks or higher ups, they'll be admonished or accused of lying. This happens in Christian monasteries too. The fact that the same sordid tale pops up wherever large groups of men get together and live secluded lives tells me that it's a pretty normal occurrence, that sex isn't just about procreation, but perhaps about recreation as well, and that when you remove the chance for voluntary sexual intercourse, then the strong will force themselves on the weaker to achieve it. Come now, when you hear the same story over and over, throughout different institutions, religions, denominations, cultures, and geographic locations, don't you think you should admit to the pattern and try to find a way to fix it? (Keep in mind that in prison you aren't allowed to masturbate, it's considered self abuse and you can be criminally charged for it... do you see the pattern? Am I the only one that can see this?) Aaron Edited October 27, 2011 by Twinner Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shen Chi Jing Posted October 27, 2011 (edited) Right, I can agree that we could know the Nature of the Universe to some degree without being Omniscient. I'm simply saying that we can delude ourselves if we assume that we know It in its totality, unless we are at least Omniscient. So, I assumed too much when reading what you said about having reached awareness of the nature of the Universe. Nonetheless, we can awaken whether we're chaste or not; however it's possible to awaken positively or negatively. About sex without orgasm (although there's more to it than that), it is called Sahaja Maithuna, or Karmamudra in Buddhism. It is for working with the Drops, Winds, and Channels (Bindu, Prana, Nadi) within the Mandala of the Body, where the Deities reside microcosmically; and is said to be the most effective way of doing so. Edited October 27, 2011 by Shen Chi Jing 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aaron Posted October 27, 2011 Right, I can agree that we could know the Nature of the Universe to some degree without being Omniscient. I'm simply saying that we can delude ourselves if we assume that we know It in its totality, unless we are at least Omniscient. So, I assumed too much when reading what you said about having reached awareness of the nature of the Universe. Nonetheless, we can awaken whether we're chaste or not; however it's possible to awaken positively or negatively. About sex without orgasm (although there's more to it than that), it is called Sahaja Maithuna, or Karmamudra in Buddhism. It is for working with the Drops, Winds, and Channels (Bindu, Prana, Nadi) within the Mandala of the Body, where the Deities reside microcosmically; and is said to be the most effective way of doing so. Shen read my post before this one, because that is one of the important things I think need to be addressed in this conversation... although perhaps it's time we make a new thread, since we've been taking this one off on a tangent. If you choose to, let me know and I'll carry on the discussion there. Aaron Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shen Chi Jing Posted October 27, 2011 (edited) Twinner Like was said, the Mysteries of Sexual Transmutation (the Great Arcanum or Arcanum A.Z.F.) have been very secret for thousands of years; so most monasteries probably don't even know it. Although some do of course. And if they don't know Sexual Alchemy, then they probably don't know Pranayama either. As far as I'm aware, the Roman Catholic church does not teach Pranayama (it's pretty obvious that they do not teach Pranayama). And it's very likely that some or even many Buddhist monasteries do not know or teach it. Have you read this post? Again, I'm not advocating celibacy. Best Regards Edited October 27, 2011 by Shen Chi Jing 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shen Chi Jing Posted October 27, 2011 (edited) The Dalaï Lama talks(ed) about avoiding wet dreams??? Yes. It is a fun thread! Thank you JCS! He does indeed. The quote is found...: HERE More seriously, and quite a "cross-cultural" question. JCS, what do you (or does your tradition) equate with "Kundalini"? The Gnostic tradition states that Karmamudra (although only with sanctity (as opposed to sanctimoniousness), virtue, and compassion) is actually the very way to awaken the Kundalini; and that Pranayama, various Yogas, Meditation, etc. can awaken sparks of Kundalini. Without Sex, only sparks. With Sex (and again, only with sanctity (as opposed to sanctimoniousness), virtue, and compassion), it is said the Kundalini Herself is awakened: How is Tantra related with the development of the kundalini? Sarva Mangalam Edited October 27, 2011 by Shen Chi Jing 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aaron Posted October 27, 2011 Twinner Like was said, the Mysteries of Sexual Transmutation (the Great Arcanum or Arcanum A.Z.F.) have been very secret for thousands of years; so most monasteries probably don't even know it. Although some do of course. And if they don't know Sexual Alchemy, then they probably don't know Pranayama either. As far as I'm aware, the Roman Catholic church does not teach Pranayama. And it's very likely that some or even many Buddhist monasteries do not know or teach it. Have you read this post? Again, I'm not advocating celibacy. Hello Shen, But I can testify to the fact that not everyone who abstains suffers from nocturnal emissions. I was celibate for nearly two years, with only four "slips" when I was in a cult, I never once had a nocturnal emission. When I say I've never had one, I really have never had one. I thought they were an old wive's tale until a friend of mine explained that they were quite common. Now one thing I've learned is that they are much more common in the East (Asia actually) then they are in the West, not sure why. Anyways, the fact of the matter for me is that man is meant to release his "lust" for lack of a better word, I like to think of it as sexual energy. When you have energy building up and it doesn't have anyplace to go, then it's eventually going to explode. Crazy occurrence from my time in the cult, I was in the bathtub taking a bath, I was just a couple months past eighteen, when my roommate who they also assigned to be my descipler, which by the way was their term for someone who was more Christlike than you, that would instruct you in becoming more Christlike, well anyways, my descipler came in and pulled the curtain back and sat down on the edge of the tub and confessed that he had masturbated. It was the most awkward experience I've ever had in my life. Here was this bald guy in his late thirties crying about masturbating, while I was taking a bath. That was actually one of the turning points that sent me packing... that and the guy always wanted to wrestle with me. (I wont even begin to talk about the descipler who would kiss me on the lips, saying that it was alright because it was chaste and a godly kiss.) Anyways, I can honestly say that my own experience influences my judgement of these kinds of things, but rather than leave me blind, I think it has allowed me to see through these things and understand the nature of them. Aaron Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
