Relocating

[heaven chi]

Hello,

 

As you know from the thread about Black magic I'm having this sort of attacks and I suspect they have to do with my neighborhood.

 

Does anyone here know, if I relocate more than 50 kilometers away will it help with the problem?

 

Hundun do you know?

 

Anyone?

 

Thank you

[fizix]

You don't need to move, you are not helpless.. the energetic vibrational frequency of love will overpower any sort of black magic, it is the strongest energy in the universe the foundation of all creation and life, and can even transmute the negative energy in your favor, you just mustnt give into fear or despair.

[Owledge]

Yeah, right. Completely disregard that black magic is a powerful opponent to love.

What a simple solution: Just do the most difficult thing imaginable to dissolve the thing that makes it difficult in the first place.

 

Also, it's like saying: White dye will make every black dye white again.

Because love doesn't automatically overpower dark vibes. It depends on the ratio. In a bad case, love can make you even more open and vulnerable to dark influences, and then you're burning yourself out and will strengthen your association of love with suffering.

[joeblast]

Good thing white paint and white light arent too analogous

[fiveelementtao]

Nothing can harm you spiritually without your conscious or unconscious cooperation. If you are being attacked, it is because you (knowingly or unknowingly) have attracted it to you. Moving will not solve the real core issue. Because wherever you go, you will go with you.

Spiritual attacks are merely external manifestations of your internal state.

 

IME, spiritual and psychological counseling will stop any spiritual attacks once you are able to face your own unresolved emotional issues and accept that you create your external reality. This is simple but not easy. It means you will have to face alot of pain and fear within.

 

Besides, based on what I read, you have no proof that anyone is doing black magic on you. You don't know what is causing the attacks...

 

But I agree with what was said earlier. You are not a victim.

[Sahaj Nath]

Nothing can harm you spiritually without your conscious or unconscious cooperation. If you are being attacked, it is because you (knowingly or unknowingly) have attracted it to you. Moving will not solve the real core issue. Because wherever you go, you will go with you.

Spiritual attacks are merely external manifestations of your internal state.

 

IME, spiritual and psychological counseling will stop any spiritual attacks once you are able to face your own unresolved emotional issues and accept that you create your external reality. This is simple but not easy.It means you will have to face alot of pain and fear within.

 

Besides, based on what I read, you have no proof that anyone is doing black magic on you. You don't know what is causing the attacks...

 

But I agree with what was said earlier. You are not a victim.

 

yeah, i already went there with him. and then some. and yet, here he is.

 

it's like we have another mewtwo on our hands. i'm over it.

[Birch]

yeah, i already went there with him. and then some. and yet, here he is.

 

it's like we have another mewtwo on our hands. i'm over it.

 

Sure, but can you imagine how weird and discombobulating (sp?) that feeling is? I'm sure lots of people here have had something similar. I'd just advise a regular psychologist and some decent grounding exercises (the salt bath thing) as well as some relaxation and forgetting ALL about this "black-magic" stuff.

 

Is it so hard to admit that our culture might have produced some insane effects on people?? And they're not (all) out of choice IMO. And i can't say whether I "chose" to be born into this life, because I can't remember

 

So yeah, get thee to a psychologist (a decent one) and work through your stuff.

[heaven chi]

Nothing can harm you spiritually without your conscious or unconscious cooperation. If you are being attacked, it is because you (knowingly or unknowingly) have attracted it to you. Moving will not solve the real core issue. Because wherever you go, you will go with you.

Spiritual attacks are merely external manifestations of your internal state.

 

IME, spiritual and psychological counseling will stop any spiritual attacks once you are able to face your own unresolved emotional issues and accept that you create your external reality. This is simple but not easy. It means you will have to face alot of pain and fear within.

 

Besides, based on what I read, you have no proof that anyone is doing black magic on you. You don't know what is causing the attacks...

 

But I agree with what was said earlier. You are not a victim.

 

 

The thing you are refering to here is not my case. There are two sorts of "attacks". The first one is related to your own emotional issues the second one is unrelated.

 

I have no unresolved emotional issues. It doesn't have to do with my internal state.

 

You shouldn't make the cart behind close doors and proclaim yourselves king.

 

As for proof that it is black magic I have plenty but it is only for myself. I cannot convince you or anyone because its my personal clairaudient experiences which I trust because I have cross tested it with the real world.

 

I'd be a real super foolish person if I still doubted whether it is black magic or not.

 

Do not think that because you know one phenomenon everything is like it.

 

While I don't doubt your advanced spiritually you don't necessarily know everything.

[三江源]

heaven-chi, I'm sure you know already some people believe in magic and others dont.

 

The fact is you have been given enough material here to work with. Plus you have a teacher.

 

That's it. It's up to you now to utilise with pure intent what tools you have.

 

 

Doing these practises, taking these measures, will still your mind.

 

Good Luck.

[heaven chi]

heaven-chi, I'm sure you know already some people believe in magic and others dont.

 

The fact is you have been given enough material here to work with. Plus you have a teacher.

 

That's it. It's up to you now to utilise with pure intent what tools you have.

 

 

Doing these practises, taking these measures, will still your mind.

 

Good Luck.

 

It's ok cat. You are right. I need not continue posting on this matter.

[fiveelementtao]

Heaven Chi. Calm down. Look at how defensive you are... Read my post again. If you can absorb it without taking it personally, you can change your situation...

 

I have been fighting black magic and demon possession for over 30 years. I know what I am talking about. In my 30 years of helping people fight black magic and demons, there has never been one person who wasn't the cause for their own situation. Not one.

 

There are more than just two types of attack. Demons, black magic, personal delusion... Ultimately it all stems from within you. When you can accept this, you will defeat it.

 

we all have unresolved emotional issues. You are no exception. Those who claim to have no unresolved issues, usually have the most...

 

You have a choice. As long as you believe you are a victim, you will be...

[heaven chi]

I don't understand such theories. Things are simple.

You have the karma that's the cause and then there is your insane enemy who acts from the outside. No theory of me deciding I'm not victim and suddenly problems ceasing. That's ridiculous.

Edited February 1, 2011 by heaven chi

[fiveelementtao]

I don't understand such theories. Things are simple.

You have the karma that's the cause and then there is your insane enemy who acts from the outside. No theory of me deciding I'm not victim and suddenly problems ceasing. That's ridiculous.

 

And yet you are the one who is suffering and cannot fix the problem. So, how is it that you know what the problem is and yet you cannot fix it?

 

Which is more ridiculous?

 

Perhaps if you tried to understand such theories, your reality would change.

Edited February 1, 2011 by fiveelementtao

[Aetherous]

I suggest you pray to the deepest and truest God to find a teaching or helper that will be of the best service. It may take a little while to get an answer, so be patient, and keep looking for ways to help yourself and others.

 

If a person's advice feels wrong, trust your instincts...those of us that attempt to help don't know everything. That is why you must be prepared to follow what seems absolutely right in your heart, instead of having to trust a person with the mind. Trusting a person's advice when it goes against your judgment will create more problems than solutions...even if they do have the skills to end up helping you with this specific problem. It is much easier to follow your unique path.

 

Don't worry, you will be getting all of the assistance you need in due time.

 

Truly believe with all of your power that your prayer will be answered. You don't deserve this. If doubts arise, let them go, they are of no use to you anymore. Don't worry about what you do on your end, because your desire for this to be gone has been heard, and the entire universe is coming to your aid.

 

Maybe these ideas will help, otherwise oh well, at least we all tried with our very limited ability.

[Owledge]

@5et

Well, are you trying to understand why he knows the problem but can't fix it? Or are you calling it ridiculous?

 

@center

I think you mention a good point there. A thesis: There are different perceptions or types of helping. One is to see the helper in the dominant position who tries to make the help-seeker accept personal concepts and view. The other is trying to put oneself in the position of the help-seeker in order to abandon those subjective views. Maybe it can be called the fire- vs. the water-path in helping. The latter one requiring a much deeper will to help, representing a kind of sacrifice.

 

I mean, to make it clear, just take the extremes: On the one side someone who doesn't really feel comfortable helping in the first place, and on the other side someone with great love for the help-seeker, like a spouse.

So maybe the degree of unconditional love and compassion acted out in life is the enabler of help.

It becomes clear in the case of compassion when you observe a situation where a helper has suffered the same kind of pain that the help-seeker does. This creates a deeper connection and thus understanding between the two.

Edited February 1, 2011 by Hardyg

[fiveelementtao]

@5et

Well, are you trying to understand why he knows the problem but can't fix it? Or are you calling it ridiculous?

 

I know why he can't fix it. When he is given a proven method to fix his problem, he refuses it before even trying it. That is called "contempt prior to investigation."

 

I know that he has sought advice from others on this forum who have shared with him similar remedies as I have and he has rejected it.

 

So, it is ridiculous for someone who admittedly does not have the knowledge and the power to fix their problem to reject other viewpoints without any investigation.

 

This indicates a very clear unconscious desire on their part to prolong their misery instead of taking steps to remedy it. And the reason for this is simple: It is far more painful and frightening to take full responsibility for one's own life than it is to simply adopt a victim mentality, and in fact, to continue to energetically attract chaos to oneself...

 

As I said before to overcome ANY victimization on ANY level, whether that be personal, spiritual, emotional, health etc... one must be prepared to spend some time facing some very painful unresolved personal issues. Any external remedies such as exorcisms, mudras, mantras, meditations, blessings, ceremonies etc. are only tools that must be accompanied by ruthless self-assessment. And usually this needs to be done with the help of a professional. Those who refuse to get help usually do so, because they do not want to be confronted with their participation in the negative situation they have allowed themselves to be trapped in...

 

The other is trying to put oneself in the position of the help-seeker

 

Good point hardy. I have been in his situation. That is how I know how to fix his. You are right it is pointless to offer help to someone when one has no personal experience with the same problem. That is how I know when someone is in denial and is refusing to face the real issue...

 

Thanks for the questions Hardy....

[Owledge]

Good point hardy. I have been in his situation. That is how I know how to fix his. You are right it is pointless to offer help to someone when one has no personal experience with the same problem. That is how I know when someone is in denial and is refusing to face the real issue...

 

Thanks for the questions Hardy....

Got another good one:

 

If you think you have been in the SAME situation that he is in, and think you know the solution to that situation, then why are you unsuccessful at helping him?

[Sahaj Nath]

Got another good one:

 

If you think you have been in the SAME situation that he is in, and think you know the solution to that situation, then why are you unsuccessful at helping him?

 

 

didn't he answer this just two paragraphs above what you quoted?

 

 

This indicates a very clear unconscious desire on their part to prolong their misery instead of taking steps to remedy it. And the reason for this is simple: It is far more painful and frightening to take full responsibility for one's own life than it is to simply adopt a victim mentality, and in fact, to continue to energetically attract chaos to oneself...

 

As I said before to overcome ANY victimization on ANY level, whether that be personal, spiritual, emotional, health etc... one must be prepared to spend some time facing some very painful unresolved personal issues. Any external remedies such as exorcisms, mudras, mantras, meditations, blessings, ceremonies etc. are only tools that must be accompanied by ruthless self-assessment. And usually this needs to be done with the help of a professional. Those who refuse to get help usually do so, because they do not want to be confronted with their participation in the negative situation they have allowed themselves to be trapped in...

 

you're forgetting something: cognition. some people can't even conceive of thinking beyond their egoic location, and they lack the trust that there is anything there, so they only walk on ground that they can see, even if that ground is astro-turf of their own making. it really is beyond the scope of some people's conception scheme, and therefore, the devil they know is constantly chosen over the devil they don't know.

 

it takes time, courage, and lots of challenges to transcend one's paradigm of understanding. some folks refuse to do it, but most don't even know how or what it even means, like christians who believe there's a heaven for all the jerks who cram their religion down everyones throats, and hell for people like Ghandi. many of them can even recite experiential PROOF of their convictions, unable to realize that their interpretation of their experience is not the TRUTH of their experience.

 

their interpretation is subject to their cognitive development. most folks don't really develop much cognitively after adolescence, and no matter what information their exposed to, the quality of their understanding/interpretation will be lacking.

 

once i was explaining the nature of yin qi to a student in his late 20's. i described it as similar to a gravitational force in one of our practices. he asked me if i was trying to tell him that he could fly. i started laughing until i realized he was serious. he was almost 30 years old, and he had the cognition of a child.

 

not everyone is fit for the paths that attract them.

[Owledge]

Right now after reading all this I'm reminded of how people mostly in the past said that negroes are clearly not capable of advanced intellectual abilities and thus perfect as slaves, and that it is ludicrous trying to use them for anything else.

 

I'm curious whether you recognize why I was thinking of that allegory.

[Aetherous]

.

Edited February 24, 2011 by center

[Sahaj Nath]

Right now after reading all this I'm reminded of how people mostly in the past said that negroes are clearly not capable of advanced intellectual abilities and thus perfect as slaves, and that it is ludicrous trying to use them for anything else.

 

I'm curious whether you recognize why I was thinking of that allegory.

 

 

you are grossly misunderstanding my point. and i DO mean GROSSLY.

 

please re-read my argument.

 

 

if we were all at a dinner party, no one would take offense to someone being pointed out as the fastest or most athletic person in the room. but everyone seems to get a little uncomfortable with the notion that someone could be the smartest or most cognitively developed in the room.

 

i don't believe in the notion of the enlightened idiot. some folks have the capacity for tremendous growth, and some folks don't. some are late bloomers and have a long way to go, but they'll get there. and others peak early and aren't going to grow anymore.

 

often we talk on this forum as if everyone has an equal shot at enlightenment or at high-level attainment. it's simply not true. that doesn't fall along racial or ethnic lines, and the fact that repugnant distortions of logic were used to justify slavery has NOTHING to do with this.

 

my mother dropped out of school in 8th grade. her ability to take on new understanding in a way that actually expanded her awareness were limited by that fact. she was a voracious reader in the 80's, but her comprehension remained that of an 8th-grader. she was never really challenged elsewhere in her life to be a critical thinker, but she couldn't understand what she didn't understand about things. arrested development.

 

there's no implication of eugenics here, so no, i have no idea how you found that 'allegory' to be relevant. as an allegory, it's a logical fallacy appealing to the consequences of belief. and partially a straw man as well.

Edited February 2, 2011 by Hundun

[fiveelementtao]

you're forgetting something: cognition. some people can't even conceive of thinking beyond their egoic location, and they lack the trust that there is anything there, so they only walk on ground that they can see, even if that ground is astro-turf of their own making. it really is beyond the scope of some people's conception scheme, and therefore, the devil they know is constantly chosen over the devil they don't know.

 

it takes time, courage, and lots of challenges to transcend one's paradigm of understanding. some folks refuse to do it, but most don't even know how or what it even means,

 

I completely agree with everything you have said, yet we live in a Universe that is constantly pushing us to evolve beyond our current understanding. So, while it definitely seems as though we are unable to move beyond our current understanding, the Universe will not tolerate us choosing to avoid learning new ways of being and thinking. My belief is that none of us have been given more than we are capable of handling. Sometimes we are given enough to push us to our limits and we must choose to grow beyond our current state. Those who do not, create more challenges for themselves. We sometimes forget that Earth is is a big school...

 

discussion forums are difficult to have active interaction with people in these situations. In person, I am able to convey compassion and tolerance while still confronting denial. forum threads and emails are different, so my tactic in these subjects is not so much for those in denial, they are in defense mode and they are on auto-pilot when it comes to protecting their denial, so I really am not speaking to them but to others who read these threads who may need a little nudge.

 

If you think you have been in the SAME situation that he is in, and think you know the solution to that situation, then why are you unsuccessful at helping him?

 

Well, he has already made up his mind that he doesn't want my help. So, I'm not able to help him. But, I am doing what people do on discussion forums and butting my head in and volunteering my opinion for fun. Now, if he had actually approached me for help, one of the first things I would require before actually helping him would be to require that he be willing to follow suggestions even if he didn't like them or was uncomfortable with them. If he were unwilling to do so, then I would not attempt any help.

 

But, having said that, Hardy, since you are asking me my opinion, I will tell you that not I nor any other human being is able to fix his problem for him. If that is what you mean by help then I am incapable of any such help whatsoever. All I can do is tell him what I did in his situation.

 

IME, If he had considered my observations with an open mind, even if he didn't understand them and proceeded to open his mind and investigate them as real possibilities, then he would be helping HIMSELF. Which is what I have been suggesting to him this whole time.

 

But as you have already read from him. He says he doesn't understand the concepts I have shared with him and he refuses to even investigate them because he says they are ridiculous to him. So, even if I wanted to help him I couldn't because he is totally unwilling to even consider them.

 

As I have said before, I believe this is because, on an unconscious level, he doesn't want to grow beyond his current level of understanding because it is too frightening to him as hundun said,

the devil they know is constantly chosen over the devil they don't know.

 

So, instead he is choosing to remain a victim and anyone who suggests that he change his mindset is threatening his state of being so he takes it personally and rejects it out of hand without even giving it a try...

[Sahaj Nath]

They don't have to. Thinking we do is a huge misconception...in fact everything is out of our hands. Not you or I have to force our minds against themselves. Everything is working perfectly outside of our egoic locations, and no one needs to force themselves against their natural path. It is absolutely counter productive to do so. You trying to force someone else is exemplary, because you've had experience and feel that you can assist...maybe you can...but not as well as their own personal connection to the deepest-part-of-their-heart can. Following what seems right to oneself is the highest and fastest method, aside from grounding and rooting practices.

 

i disagree. thinking we don't is largely a 'new age' phenomenon. there ARE inferior and superior ways of understanding in our relative world. most of what you're addressing here has no practical relevance to the actual discussion at hand in which someone is seeking assistance for a problem that they themselves don't necessarily understand. a child might want an amulet to protect them from the closet monster. are we not allowed to say that there is another, more mature perspective that this child can reach? or do we just say, "maybe the child is right; who am i to judge."

 

but we are not just born and then wander out along our 'natural path.' it's a beautifully poetic sentiment, but it ain't how things work. we learn, we grow, we fail, and at any point along the way, we can stall and just call it our nature, right? good luck with that.

 

 

That is so true. We are only fit for our own personal path, uniquely designed by the universe.

 

again, poetic sentiment, but empirically false unless you're limiting yourself to the abstract. anyone who has excelled and watched others excel in any school larger than a school of ONE would disagree.

 

Part of that path seems to usually involve getting attracted by false paths, and then swinging back after a negative experience. Such is the way of the mind. But the way of the heart is different. That path is absolutely easy and natural for the individual, if they simply notice their feelings and just do what makes them feel good. No one is alike. This is why forcing your personal view on other people isn't the most helpful thing...I'm even doing it right now knowingly! But you know, we all like to try to help each other, as flawed and absolutely powerless as we are...(maybe I'm just speaking for myself there). We aren't the types to sit back and do nothing.

 

i understand your sentiment, but it just doesn't work that way. schools exist for a reason. the natural path of the heart doesn't work for the adult who has the emotional maturity of an 8-year-old. that person needs guidance.

[Owledge]

@Hundun

I set a kind of linguistic trap there. You didn't see what made me think of it. You didn't even deal with that, but you assumed what I wanted to say by thinking of that allegory, equaling it with your mindset.

But in fact, I was thinking about it because of the mindset I describe in the following address to 5et, about fortifying a view by believing in it, although it should be undesired from an altruistic perspective.

 

@5et

I agree to your view on adding our part, considering that we might not be able to help someone. But we should take care that we don't attach a judgment to that. You say things like heaven chi doesn't even "consider" your advice. Well, if he didn't consider it, he could not come to a decision not to follow it, no?

Isn't it part of the understanding of Taoism to accept everything that happens as having a purpose and being intrinsically alright? Then why are you putting judgments on him, saying he doesn't have an open mind? This channels mind energy into personal beliefs that are fueled by some kind of character imbalance, and might in the end even harm the help-seeker. Or said in fewer words ... you oppose him. Does opposing create solution? Or might it move help-seekers even farther away? (Not saying that that kind of experience couldn't help help-seekers in a different way. I'm not condemning your actions at all, just pointing out alternatives.)

 

You should have heard my former psychotherapist talking. He, too, didn't try to find a path towards a helpful solution (from A to B, so to speak), but seemed to think that if he blames me for being where I am on my path, this would accomplish anything. But in essence what he was saying was: 'In my view you are wrong as you are, and you have to get right.'.

 

a child might want an amulet to protect them from the closet monster. are we not allowed to say that there is another, more mature perspective that this child can reach? or do we just say, "maybe the child is right; who am i to judge."

Well, don't things like that work exceptionally well with children's fears?

And didn't you yourself talk about some adults having the comprehension of a child?

So what you do is trying to apply one approach to a problem as universally preferrable, disregarding the actual help efficiency.

And by the way, giving a child a monster-protection amulet also has the potential of stimulating its power of intent (or power of imagination or sense for phantasy or whatever you want to call it). But what is the more 'mature' answer? To tell the child that there are no monsters? This is simply not true from the child's perspective and thus is, again, only creating opposition.

And also, if the child even asks specifically for an amulet, maybe we should listen to its needs, to the childlike wisdom that is held very high as far as I know. You can still offer an alternative if the child comes back and tells you the amulet doesn't work. But don't give it the amulet and tell it that it won't work anyway and then later say "I told you". Because that's the self-amplifying of personal beliefs I mentioned here in regards to you guys and also my former therapist.

Edited February 2, 2011 by Hardyg

[Aetherous]

a child might want an amulet to protect them from the closet monster. are we not allowed to say that there is another, more mature perspective that this child can reach?

 

Exactly...there is always a more mature perspective than what I currently hold. Which is why I suggested to pray to the highest God, without a single doubt. It works better than anything.