Consciousness vs. Subconsciousness

[Everything]

The conscious mind is what sets goals, makes judgements, thinks abstractly. It can think in the past and future, has a short term memory, can handle a max of 3 tasks at once. It has got ~40 bits of information per second processing power.

The subconscious mind has got 40 MILION bits of info/sec processing power, can remember long term and handle thousands of events/tasks simultaniously. The subconscious regulates everything in your body and is responsible for all your behaviour, atleast 90% of the time. That means that atleast 90% of your behaviour is automatic, because the subconscious mind is a habitual mind rather then volitional. It runs programs that has been habitually constructed and evolved. The subconscious mind is one that can only think in present moments. Thus, it is timeless. It cannot think abstractly, only literally.

 

We often think that our conscious mind is running the show, that we are doing things by choice. It could not have been less true. One who declares war with his subconscious will not go far on willpower alone. It requires excessive force and is not natural. You will find that the entire universe is working against you when you do something that is not parallel with your believe systems. Changing the subconscious doesn't speak for itself. But when its done, you will find that the entire universe is suddenly working with you, naturally.

 

Some people view the subconscious as their god. The one who receives all the prayers. The question is, which prayer is most effective, and which ones are destructive. How to change the subconscious for the better?

[Marblehead]

Interesting topic.

 

I think the subconscious can be changed through repetition. Basically, rewiring the subconscious to remove or at least bypass the unwanted memories.

[fiveelementtao]

There is also the superconscious. Another terminology would be Superconscious = Higher Self, Conscious=Waking Self, Subconscious=lower self.

 

I would agree that the Subconscious runs the show. The conscious mind makes decisions, The subconscious carries all the psychological patterns that determine the choices we make.

 

If one is disconnected from their higher selves, the subconscious drives us from unresolved psychological issues (past karma). If however, we are connected to our higher selves, then our subconscious can be reprogrammed to create more harmonious patterns which will then affect our conscious choices.

 

In taoism we have Heaven, Earth and Man, (Superconscious, Subconscious, Conscious) Which are connected to the three dan tiens. 3rd eye (Heaven/superconscious), Navel (Earth/Subconscious) and Man (Heart/conscious)

 

In Teutonic Shamanism, we have the same but they are called Odin (Shamanic Inspiration), Villi (Willpower) and Ve (Sacred Space).

[Everything]

There is also the superconscious. Another terminology would be Superconscious = Higher Self, Conscious=Waking Self, Subconscious=lower self.

 

I would agree that the Subconscious runs the show. The conscious mind makes decisions, The subconscious carries all the psychological patterns that determine the choices we make.

 

If one is disconnected from their higher selves, the subconscious drives us from unresolved psychological issues (past karma). If however, we are connected to our higher selves, then our subconscious can be reprogrammed to create more harmonious patterns which will then affect our conscious choices.

 

In taoism we have Heaven, Earth and Man, (Superconscious, Subconscious, Conscious) Which are connected to the three dan tiens. 3rd eye (Heaven/superconscious), Navel (Earth/Subconscious) and Man (Heart/conscious)

 

In Teutonic Shamanism, we have the same but they are called Odin (Shamanic Inspiration), Villi (Willpower) and Ve (Sacred Space).

Well, thanks for mentioning it. I'm not that far yet in my experiences, unfortunately.

[Everything]

Interesting topic.

 

I think the subconscious can be changed through repetition. Basically, rewiring the subconscious to remove or at least bypass the unwanted memories.

Easier said then done, haha. But yeah, thats one way.

 

Lets take a war veteran as an example... He's used to live in an destructive and dangerous environment. One would not survive without having learned the basic insticts and subconscious skills. How long does it take to learn those? If it would require alot of repetition, the war veteran would be dead by now... There is one thing that allows for a quick rewiring, we call them trauma's. I call them ingrained "believes" or perceptions. And idea, superglued to the emotion, valued by the subconscious and even protected, because emotional energy is connected to that specific idea. Then this believe/perception in the subconscious mind attracts more and more evidence and emotional energy, new ideas that contribute to it, new networks of believes that are similar, new tinted glasses are formed trough which you see your reality. Your identity is created, you're now 6 years old. Same goes for the war veteran, but then in a very short amount of time, all trough a single trauma. His whole world collapses, perhaps he suffers for a month. But after that, he's good for the job an entire lifetime. This trauma actually garuantees more then anything that the war veteran will perform well on in field, even more so then the training background of a newly arived soldier. Unfortunately, this also means that the war veteran can no longer function in a normal society anymore... His subconscious is still in war, every day is a struggle of willpower of the consciousness and the conflicting behaviour and emotions in his subconscious programmed for the battlefield. Even after 50 years of repetition, one might still not fully recover from such ingrained changes made to the subconscious. PTSD for war veterans cases have found that they would be emotionally more suitable in the battlefield then in a normal society. This means that they suffer in a normal regular societ and they do ok in war.

 

So repetition is not the only way... Trauma's seem like more effective and quicker aswell. Some new trauma's might deprive older trauma's of emotional energy so that it looses its value, we can bypass the unwanted memories that way, yeah. But you can wait 500 years for a positive trauma to come knocking on your door, lol.

Removing the memory is not possible either. Even trough manually unlinking the emotional connection to the idea in the trauma that is emerging from the subconscious, trough therapeutic techniques like EMDR, will not even remove the memory, the ideas, data itself. Removing the emotional connection to the idea, the subconscious believe/reality will loose its grip in your life so that you may seek for new ones. There is where the repetition comes in perhaps, when the time for change is the most ripe. It is interesting indeed how the sub-conscious mind works. Its nature.

 

It can teach us alot about our way of praying and meditating aswell. A guy who prays for all the demons and devils to go away will find that these demons are becoming a part of his daily existance. While a man praying out of gratitude will actually feed more positive emotions to his subconscious and find that the demons are deprived of meaning in his life.

 

If anyone thinks I'm missing another way of changing the subconscious, share it with us. Perhaps the super consciousness? Not sure what that one is.

 

I've met plenty of faces who keep reminding us to believe in something, but never give clear instructions on "how" to exactly believe in something. How can we gain the trust of god in order to have him hear our prayers more effectively? How can we make the repetition more effective to have it heard by our subconscious. How can we link positive emotional value to our repetitions. Does repetition actually work at all in creating new realities for one self? Often I've found that dull repeating of affirmations is never sufficient to change the subconscious. Perhaps we must create our own trauma's, trough taking action. I for one have no clue on how to change the subconscious mind, how to win it over and have its powers back us up in our journey towards greater peace and contentment.

 

I'm a over-educated fool on these matters.

Edited February 1, 2011 by Everything

[torus693]

the subconscious has a source. A place it rises from. The pathway to that place is the emptiness between thoughts -the emptiness between words. Joy also has a point of origination inside the body. Finding these places is key.

Gaining consistent ability to recall the subtle 'feeling' sense of these locations is a mastery of meditation.

[Jetsun]

Repetition is basically a form of hypnosis or adding scripts to your subconscious which can have it's benefits but its like if you add a load of extra programmes to a computer eventually you can get crashes and conflicts in the system. A better method is removing or letting go of your scripts in my opinion. Essentially all the triggers and charges of your subconscious are held in the tensions of your body so if you can soften and dissolve your tensions subconscious material can come into your consciousness and you can let it go. You can never let go of memory but you can remove the charge and your identity from memories which then liberates your energy and prevents you from being taken away by its trance. There are many methods to do this, the Water Method is one, in SF Jane's books she describes how one time working with dissolving her face she re-experienced being stuck and could even re-feel the hand on her cheek yet with the dissolving the charge could be released and so the memory became a normal memory rather than one which was traumatically charged which triggered anger or fear. It seems to me that working with body is key to bringing your subconscious into light if anyone has any other methods I would be very interested.

[Everything]

Making the conscious mind more efficient in dealing with all the conflicts when they arise from the subconscios might also be a way, yes. Like dissolving your identity taken from certain events. This does take away your reality/believe/trauma. Such times are fragile, one must remain constantly conscious in order to prevent new negative believes to creep in while you're in confusion. It requires alot of focus and repetition to go from neutral to positive aswell, just like it does to go from negative to neutral.

 

So lets take fear for example. Has anyone here succesfully removed a fear, share it here. Or give an example of how one would change, for example, the: "the subconscious fear of darkness/scary animal or instect or reptile."

Edited February 1, 2011 by Everything

[Birch]

Easier said then done, haha. But yeah, thats one way.

 

Lets take a war veteran as an example... He's used to live in an destructive and dangerous environment. One would not survive without having learned the basic insticts and subconscious skills. How long does it take to learn those? If it would require alot of repetition, the war veteran would be dead by now... There is one thing that allows for a quick rewiring, we call them trauma's. I call them ingrained "believes" or perceptions. And idea, superglued to the emotion, valued by the subconscious and even protected, because emotional energy is connected to that specific idea. Then this believe/perception in the subconscious mind attracts more and more evidence and emotional energy, new ideas that contribute to it, new networks of believes that are similar, new tinted glasses are formed trough which you see your reality. Your identity is created, you're now 6 years old. Same goes for the war veteran, but then in a very short amount of time, all trough a single trauma. His whole world collapses, perhaps he suffers for a month. But after that, he's good for the job an entire lifetime. This trauma actually garuantees more then anything that the war veteran will perform well on in field, even more so then the training background of a newly arived soldier. Unfortunately, this also means that the war veteran can no longer function in a normal society anymore... His subconscious is still in war, every day is a struggle of willpower of the consciousness and the conflicting behaviour and emotions in his subconscious programmed for the battlefield. Even after 50 years of repetition, one might still not fully recover from such ingrained changes made to the subconscious. PTSD for war veterans cases have found that they would be emotionally more suitable in the battlefield then in a normal society. This means that they suffer in a normal regular societ and they do ok in war.

 

So repetition is not the only way... Trauma's seem like more effective and quicker aswell. Some new trauma's might deprive older trauma's of emotional energy so that it looses its value, we can bypass the unwanted memories that way, yeah. But you can wait 500 years for a positive trauma to come knocking on your door, lol.

Removing the memory is not possible either. Even trough manually unlinking the emotional connection to the idea in the trauma that is emerging from the subconscious, trough therapeutic techniques like EMDR, will not even remove the memory, the ideas, data itself. Removing the emotional connection to the idea, the subconscious believe/reality will loose its grip in your life so that you may seek for new ones. There is where the repetition comes in perhaps, when the time for change is the most ripe. It is interesting indeed how the sub-conscious mind works. Its nature.

 

It can teach us alot about our way of praying and meditating aswell. A guy who prays for all the demons and devils to go away will find that these demons are becoming a part of his daily existance. While a man praying out of gratitude will actually feed more positive emotions to his subconscious and find that the demons are deprived of meaning in his life.

 

If anyone thinks I'm missing another way of changing the subconscious, share it with us. Perhaps the super consciousness? Not sure what that one is.

 

I've met plenty of faces who keep reminding us to believe in something, but never give clear instructions on "how" to exactly believe in something. How can we gain the trust of god in order to have him hear our prayers more effectively? How can we make the repetition more effective to have it heard by our subconscious. How can we link positive emotional value to our repetitions. Does repetition actually work at all in creating new realities for one self? Often I've found that dull repeating of affirmations is never sufficient to change the subconscious. Perhaps we must create our own trauma's, trough taking action. I for one have no clue on how to change the subconscious mind, how to win it over and have its powers back us up in our journey towards greater peace and contentment.

 

I'm a over-educated fool on these matters.

 

Nah, IMO you're on the right track.

 

I think/have sort of worked out that:

 

"Removing the emotional connection to the idea" = yes and then the ideas (tend to be a net of them) linked to that first idea - which wasn't one, but you made it up to "explain" things to yourself, how unfortunate would that you become it!

 

In many respects, IMO (and small experience) the subconscious keeps "you" safe so "winning it over" might not be a great idea. However, thanking it for keeping you safe (whether the danger is real or imagined) and then consciously moving on to take mindful action might be a way to proceed.

 

The other issue is of course "stored" trauma - every cell remembers, hence the "through the body techniques" used in a lot of the stuff in "practices".

[Everything]

Nah, IMO you're on the right track.

 

I think/have sort of worked out that:

 

"Removing the emotional connection to the idea" = yes and then the ideas (tend to be a net of them) linked to that first idea - which wasn't one, but you made it up to "explain" things to yourself, how unfortunate would that you become it!

 

In many respects, IMO (and small experience) the subconscious keeps "you" safe so "winning it over" might not be a great idea. However, thanking it for keeping you safe (whether the danger is real or imagined) and then consciously moving on to take mindful action might be a way to proceed.

 

The other issue is of course "stored" trauma - every cell remembers, hence the "through the body techniques" used in a lot of the stuff in "practices".

 

Let us say that every emotional respond you have is coming from your subconscious programming, even the fear of death. It might not be so, but lets pretend that it is so. How do you replace these or let go of these subconscious programs by using "trough the body techniques"?

Are certain instincts perhaps impossible to reprogram, like the reptilian ones that make for fighting and sex? I've read somewhere that japanese young men are loosing interest in sex, because of cultural changes and lack of present elders in the families.

Edited February 1, 2011 by Everything

[Marblehead]

There is also the superconscious. Another terminology would be Superconscious = Higher Self, Conscious=Waking Self, Subconscious=lower self.

 

Hi Five,

 

This called to my mind the Jungian concept of the 'collective subconscious'. I don't know if I accept the concept or not but it is an interesting concept none-the-less.

[Birch]

Let us say that every emotional respond you have is coming from your subconscious programming, even the fear of death. It might not be so, but lets pretend that it is so. How do you replace these or let go of these subconscious programs by using "trough the body techniques"?

Are certain instincts perhaps impossible to reprogram, like the reptilian ones that make for fighting and sex? I've read somewhere that japanese young men are loosing interest in sex, because of cultural changes and lack of present elders in the families.

 

 

I don't know which ones are "hardwired" and which are not although we could make some guesses about survival, reproduction etc but that's a big step to take IMO.

 

"Are certain instincts perhaps impossible to reprogram"

 

Good question.

[Medhavi]

So repetition is not the only way... Trauma's seem like more effective and quicker aswell. Some new trauma's might deprive older trauma's of emotional energy so that it looses its value, we can bypass the unwanted memories that way, yeah. But you can wait 500 years for a positive trauma to come knocking on your door, lol.

Removing the memory is not possible either. Even trough manually unlinking the emotional connection to the idea in the trauma that is emerging from the subconscious, trough therapeutic techniques like EMDR, will not even remove the memory, the ideas, data itself. Removing the emotional connection to the idea, the subconscious believe/reality will loose its grip in your life so that you may seek for new ones. There is where the repetition comes in perhaps, when the time for change is the most ripe. It is interesting indeed how the sub-conscious mind works. Its nature.

I think you are on the right track as well.

The keyword, in my personal observation, is the emotional significance that I attribute to a specific memory.

If I want to "move on", certain programs in myself have made it seemingly necessary to do what you have suggested: "un-link" the emotional connection to an idea so that I may give myself the change to engage in practise and reflection, through which I may find a proper solution.

In essence, to take my experiences as an example, I had to deceive my subconscious through trickery: the memory of an experience or idea is powered by emotion, and, at least in the beginning of my practise, emotion was stronger than my waking intellect, thus eventually overpowering willpower, which was in its infancy in myself and couldn't defend itself through successful application of knowledge.

 

Thus, I had the habit of creating a ritual* that consisted in repeating the same experience that I wanted to get rid of in my memory because I wanted to escape from facing it in full knowledge and thereby "colouring" it again, hopefully in a better way(the only way which would convince my ego to "accept" the memory as part of my "personal image" that I hold in my mind)

A sort of "reset" you may say. Emotional thinking, which is what I did the most in the beginning, has the quality of changing the "colour" of both my worldview and specific memory.

 

And thus, you are right in saying that a trauma can replace another, if it is successfully done, depending on the perceived needs of your subconscious and intellect. Simple repetition of a particular behaviour might be slower because it is not as equally charged with emotion as traumas or acts that are important to us.

But using such a trauma replacing device covers up the true cause of the original conflict, which will resurface sooner or later. By then, and so goes my idea, I have to have used the "borrowed time" to come up with a true solution to the problem, which, in my experience, always leads myself to find the courage to face the trauma as I can see it and derive enough information so that I attain applicable knowledge for myself, possibly leading to change.

 

*(warning: this is the worst solution because rituals, never, ever, truly work by themselves. They can be a useful illusion(device) at best)

 

Another point I would like to mention is the curious or, maybe, not so surprising find that, as thoughts can be powered by emotion, you can understand the concept of calm detachment. If you repeat a traumatic memory in your mind again and again, it becomes stronger and stronger. If you find that courage/calmness to look at it in detachment, it withers away(at least in my experience). But obviously, the knowledge and detachment route requires courage and awareness, and I can easily see how folks can be driven to create elaborate systems of ritual (magick) to deal with such problems and to fulfill desires that they wish to satisfy, even if they might be entirely illusory in nature.

It is my(perhaps false) idea that, looking at my own rituals, many "escape" systems have been constructed around rather simple, but effective, systems of knowledge that work for those who have the capacity and qualities to move through their lessons gracefully.

Edited February 1, 2011 by Medhavi

[Marblehead]

Hi Everything,

 

What a fantastic response! I have been away from this area of study for too long to make too many statements but I do wish to speak to two areas of your post.

 

Lets take a war veteran as an example...

 

Yes indeed! That was witnesses in Vietnam by so many American soldiers and is happening somewhat in the Middle East wars. The traumas cause a change but when the external conditions change (they return to civilian life) the effects of the trauma remains.

 

 

It can teach us alot about our way of praying and meditating aswell. A guy who prays for all the demons and devils to go away will find that these demons are becoming a part of his daily existance. While a man praying out of gratitude will actually feed more positive emotions to his subconscious and find that the demons are deprived of meaning in his life.

 

I think you are right on mark with this one. Whatever subconscious energy makes its way to the conscious mind that we think upon will be reenforced. If we have negative thoughts and we think on them the next time they arise they will be stronger than they were the previous time. This is, IMO, reenforcing the negative. That is why we must always think on the positive. Not so much of what is wrong in the world but what is right and to reenforce this.

 

[Marblehead]

Are certain instincts perhaps impossible to reprogram ...?

 

Well, the instinct for survival: Why are there people who can commit suicide?

 

The instinct for reproduction (sex): Why are there people who can live a celibate life?

 

I think that the mind of man has become strong enough so that any and all instinctual behavior can be over-powered.

Edited February 1, 2011 by Marblehead

[Jetsun]

Let us say that every emotional respond you have is coming from your subconscious programming, even the fear of death. It might not be so, but lets pretend that it is so. How do you replace these or let go of these subconscious programs by using "trough the body techniques"?

Are certain instincts perhaps impossible to reprogram, like the reptilian ones that make for fighting and sex? I've read somewhere that japanese young men are loosing interest in sex, because of cultural changes and lack of present elders in the families.

 

They say that the two main fears that babies are born with are the fear of falling and fear of loud noises, nearly all the others are learned so theoretically can be unlearned.

 

In terms of what is possible to make conscious there are some Yogis who have made their automative mechanisms of their body like their heart beat under their conscious control and people like Bruce Frantzis can flex his kidneys at his own will, so it is possible to bring these automative things from the subconscious into the light if you want to, what use it is is another matter. Uprooting the emotional and psychological stuff is much more useful and important in my opinion.

[三江源]

.

Edited April 7, 2015 by 三江源

[hagar]

Being able to flex your kidneys, believe it or not, is not that unusual in longer term practitioners who wish to do it. Having a whole body that is responsive to your intent suggests a great mind - body relationship, which means you are a more whole being, more fully operational.

It doesnt of course mean that you will be wise or kind or even very evolved in your shen.

 

I agree with you about the prime import of sorting oneself out psychologically. Any power comes to naught if one is essentially a walking pattern of unconscious reactivities.

 

 

Fear comes from lack of love. Love brings courage. Unconscious dynamics impede and even paralyse our ability to love and be loved.

And of course the collective consciousness would have us believe that we know what love is, and to believe that fear of death is a natural part of life.

 

Couldn't agree more...

 

h

[Vajrahridaya]

Couldn't agree more...

 

h

 

Right... but there are different collectives.