You know what's really heart-breaking?

[bodyoflight]

What's really heart-breaking is that there are brothers and sisters of light in here who, due to their ego, selfishness and greed, would prevent others from reaching the highest levels immediately.. and some of us do have the potential to reach the highest levels cos we have trained in our previous life-times..

 

It is like.. "oh we haven't got to your level yet so how can you leave the world without us?"

 

How sad is the state of affairs..

[Medhavi]

I assume that you got this idea in the thread on the Online Practise Program.

 

First of all, may I suggest that you look at any given craft or study and ponder whether or not it is possible to skip ahead of the first lessons and to become a "master" overnight?

Secondly, if you determine that you can do so, what is the cause of that conclusion?

 

You seem to be making a host of assumptions about both the people here and the arts that you seem to be chasing after. Looking at the specific words you used(ego, selfishness and greed) to complain about the ones that, in your view, hinder your development, I would like you to search yourself to see whether or not the same qualities are behind your complaint.

Edited February 1, 2011 by Medhavi

[Aetherous]

.

Edited February 24, 2011 by center

[Jetsun]

I don't know the context of this thread or the level anyone is at but in my own experience when I first got interested in this area of spirituality I tried jumping into the highest meditations and tried to learn about all the highest practices I could find, reading all the advanced texts and material, but after many years of getting nowhere I have had to admit that what I need is work on the real bottom and foundations of development, which was and still is hard to face. All that I learned about the higher stuff may well serve me in good stead in the future but without healing and work on the level that im at right now it's not much use except as motivation. Seeing a psychotherapist was quite good at cutting through all the bullshit, I would do some high meditation think that I was developing some advanced spiritual attainment and balance but then when I would sit infront of the psychotherapist I would revert back into my usual confusion almost straightaway as he could see through any pretense quite easily which showed to me that I had got nowhere.

 

But back in the day if anyone had told me I wasn't ready for a teaching I would have thought they were just trying to put me down and stifle my development so I wouldn't have listened to them, so it was something I had to learn myself the hard way.

[Marblehead]

Hi Body,

 

There will always be critics. Most wish to help but many don't know the 'best' way to do it so they do the best they can.

 

All I can say is that whatever it is you are doing, if it is helping you then 'keep on truckin'. You shouldn't be concerned where anyone else is along their path. It is where "you" are and if 'your' path is 'good' for you.

[joeblast]

I don't know the context of this thread or the level anyone is at but in my own experience when I first got interested in this area of spirituality I tried jumping into the highest meditations and tried to learn about all the highest practices I could find, reading all the advanced texts and material, but after many years of getting nowhere I have had to admit that what I need is work on the real bottom and foundations of development, which was and still is hard to face. All that I learned about the higher stuff may well serve me in good stead in the future but without healing and work on the level that im at right now it's not much use except as motivation. Seeing a psychotherapist was quite good at cutting through all the bullshit, I would do some high meditation think that I was developing some advanced spiritual attainment and balance but then when I would sit infront of the psychotherapist I would revert back into my usual confusion almost straightaway as he could see through any pretense quite easily which showed to me that I had got nowhere.

 

But back in the day if anyone had told me I wasn't ready for a teaching I would have thought they were just trying to put me down and stifle my development so I wouldn't have listened to them, so it was something I had to learn myself the hard way.

temet nocse

[bodyoflight]

I assume that you got this idea in the thread on the Online Practise Program.

 

First of all, may I suggest that you look at any given craft or study and ponder whether or not it is possible to skip ahead of the first lessons and to become a "master" overnight?

Secondly, if you determine that you can do so, what is the cause of that conclusion?

 

You seem to be making a host of assumptions about both the people here and the arts that you seem to be chasing after. Looking at the specific words you used(ego, selfishness and greed) to complain about the ones that, in your view, hinder your development, I would like you to search yourself to see whether or not the same qualities are behind your complaint.

 

You assumed wrong. I have been looking at many other threads as well.

 

There are some here who gives knowledge freely with the noble intent of helping others progress on their path asap.

 

Yet there are some others who would insist that other people follow their own structure of learning paradigm.

 

It would be egoistic to think that everyone is at the same level as one particular person. Some are faster in some areas. Some are slower in some areas.

 

Does one have the psychic ability to know the true potential of a person and how much he is able to handle? If not, then I think it would be egoistic to say that everyone should follow the same structure.

 

Don't always look at things from your point of view in relations to matters which are not your own. In my case, my path of progress is my own matter and it would be egoistic of anyone else to say how my path should be like or how fast my path should progress.

[bodyoflight]

Hi Body,

 

There will always be critics. Most wish to help but many don't know the 'best' way to do it so they do the best they can.

 

All I can say is that whatever it is you are doing, if it is helping you then 'keep on truckin'. You shouldn't be concerned where anyone else is along their path. It is where "you" are and if 'your' path is 'good' for you.

 

I am curious but never concerned about where anyone else is along their path. It is never my prerogative to tell others what they should or should not do. I give them options maybe even some warnings then send them along their way.

 

But there are some in here who dispenses advice with the attitude that they are the sole authorities on what's right or what's wrong. It sickens me.

[bodyoflight]

I don't know the context of this thread or the level anyone is at but in my own experience when I first got interested in this area of spirituality I tried jumping into the highest meditations and tried to learn about all the highest practices I could find, reading all the advanced texts and material, but after many years of getting nowhere I have had to admit that what I need is work on the real bottom and foundations of development, which was and still is hard to face. All that I learned about the higher stuff may well serve me in good stead in the future but without healing and work on the level that im at right now it's not much use except as motivation. Seeing a psychotherapist was quite good at cutting through all the bullshit, I would do some high meditation think that I was developing some advanced spiritual attainment and balance but then when I would sit infront of the psychotherapist I would revert back into my usual confusion almost straightaway as he could see through any pretense quite easily which showed to me that I had got nowhere.

 

But back in the day if anyone had told me I wasn't ready for a teaching I would have thought they were just trying to put me down and stifle my development so I wouldn't have listened to them, so it was something I had to learn myself the hard way.

 

as i said, what's inappropriate for you may be very appropriate for other people.. it would be egoistical of you to judge what other people can or cannot achieve..

 

remember the 4-min mile? no one actually thought it was possible until roger did it.. so don't ever use your own experiences to judge what's possible or impossible.. no human have the authority to do that..

 

think about it..

Edited February 1, 2011 by bodyoflight

[Jetsun]

as i said, what's inappropriate for you may be very appropriate for other people.. it would be egoistical of you to judge what other people can or cannot achieve..

 

think about it..

 

Yeah it would be egotistical of me that's why I said I don't know what level anyone is on, but maybe not of someone who is a teacher who knows, I guess it depends on whether you trust the person giving you advice really knows what they are doing. If I had found a teacher I implicitly trusted a long time ago I would have saved myself years of wasted effort

[Aetherous]

.

Edited February 24, 2011 by center

[bodyoflight]

So then what is this thread about?

 

Anger is a HUGE impediment to spiritual development, as is pointing the finger outside of oneself. Those two things are very self destructive actions. It's a very hard lesson to learn, so I think telling you directly would be easier than finding out the hard way.

 

But I agree with you, it's not within my power to tell you how to be.

 

I am very disappointed at the state of things but hardly angry.. which posts of mine in this thread showed anger?..

[三江源]

I am curious but never concerned about where anyone else is along their path. It is never my prerogative to tell others what they should or should not do. I give them options maybe even some warnings then send them along their way.

 

But there are some in here who dispenses advice with the attitude that they are the sole authorities on what's right or what's wrong. It sickens me.

 

Yes, I know what you mean. (I'm sorry if I ever write like that or come across like that.) I wouldnt like it either. I cant stand being patronised by people I see as closed minded, either.

 

I reckon that the 'sole authority' complex is easy to fall into, and it's very helpful of you to draw it to our attention. It is nauseating when it is smug and condescending, particularly.

 

There has to be some place of ground on which one can stand and say what one has found to be true, though.

[Aetherous]

.

Edited February 24, 2011 by center

[Jetsun]

So then what is this thread about?

 

Anger is a HUGE impediment to spiritual development, as is pointing the finger outside of oneself. Those two things are very self destructive actions. It's a very hard lesson to learn, so I think telling you directly would be easier than finding out the hard way.

 

But I agree with you, it's not within my power to tell you how to be.

 

There is nothing wrong with expressing anger in a controlled way when you feel like you have been faulted, I don't put trust in any approach which says otherwise.

[Aetherous]

.

Edited February 24, 2011 by center

[surfingbudda]

I do think that if we could all lovingly work together humanity could achieve so much

 

[Marblehead]

But there are some in here who dispenses advice with the attitude that they are the sole authorities on what's right or what's wrong. It sickens me.

 

Yeah, that is a problem with internet communications. Some people just have a hard time being tactful with this form of communications.

 

I have recieved criticism to some of my posts here and I understand why. But still, we are all here to share our opinions and try to gain understandings of others opinions.

 

Just try to keep in mind that nearly everything posted on this forum is an opinion of one form or another. We can believe our own opinions to the utmost but this by no means that our opinions are valid in anyone else's life.

[Marblehead]

I do think that if we could all lovingly work together humanity could achieve so much

 

Or you could just post more kitty pictures.

 

Life shouldn't be serious all the time.

[Art]

I agree for the most-part with everything that has been written here. With that said, there are a few members who do provide a much-needed reality check for those who "have their head in the clouds, but lack having their feet on the ground".... In the end, your experience is yours. Should someone say something that doesn't resonate with you, wish them peace, bid them farewell, and move on.

 

I'm not trying to disagree with the OP, but offering another perspective on the matter. Anything is possible, and placing time measurements on spiritual advancement, to me, hinders any progression. For some, it could take a lifetime to learn and discover. For others, it could take a day. Learning and growing never stop and the destination is not necessarily where one should focus, but rather the journey.

 

Please forgive my humble attempts to share wise words, for I really don't know anything.

[markern]

I don't know the context of this thread or the level anyone is at but in my own experience when I first got interested in this area of spirituality I tried jumping into the highest meditations and tried to learn about all the highest practices I could find, reading all the advanced texts and material, but after many years of getting nowhere I have had to admit that what I need is work on the real bottom and foundations of development, which was and still is hard to face. All that I learned about the higher stuff may well serve me in good stead in the future but without healing and work on the level that im at right now it's not much use except as motivation. Seeing a psychotherapist was quite good at cutting through all the bullshit, I would do some high meditation think that I was developing some advanced spiritual attainment and balance but then when I would sit in front of the psychotherapist I would revert back into my usual confusion almost straightaway as he could see through any pretense quite easily which showed to me that I had got nowhere.

 

But back in the day if anyone had told me I wasn't ready for a teaching I would have thought they were just trying to put me down and stifle my development so I wouldn't have listened to them, so it was something I had to learn myself the hard way.

 

I am and have always been very happy to start with very basic practices and do them thoroughly before advancing to higher level stuff. I think I very much need to also. Actually I got burnt seriously just doing regular breath based meditation because I was so out of balance energetically to begin with that the meditation created more problems. I had so much more energy in my crown chakra than anywhere else that when I just started getting some results with meditation it blew of and have been difficult to calm down ever since. In fact I have had to revert to the most basic physical exercises in order to ground because once my crown had become overactive in grounding energywork would activate it before the exercises had time to start giving a grounding effect.

 

I think most people would be better of using the first phase to gain psychological and energetic balance rather than going to high level stuff quickly. A year at least and for many people more than that should often be used to focus on getting your alignment in order, doing stuff like healing sounds and inner smile to gain basic self love and psychological health, basic stilling of the mind etc. and doing some psychological work. I am not saying people should not do practices aimed at enlightenment such as Vipassana or kunlun from the begining just spend enough time on foundational stuff as well and consider if you are better of doing JUST foundational stuff for quite some time.

 

Once you have laid that foundation you are much, much less likely to end up having trouble on your path such as a healing crises that makes you unable to cope, grounding issues that make you totally spaced out for ages, having all your energies out of whack, becoming psychologically imbalanced, not being able to handle or digest high level insights etc.

 

When you consider that many of us will be on this path for many decades spending your time on laying a foundation might prove cost effective in the end in terms of time spend reaching the highest level you have time to reach in this life. If you are 25 then it is likely you will spend a minimum of 40, probably more than 60 and very possibly 70 or more years on this path. If you spend say 2 years only laying the groundwork that means you still have 38, 48 or 68 years left. If those to years leads to you having only minore problems on the later years you probably save time over all. A grounding issue can take anything from a few weeks to a few years to sort out. A hardcore kundalini crisis can make you unable to progress in any way spiritually and dysfunctional in mundane life for a decade or more if you don`t find proper help. You might also find that you do reach a basic level of enlightenment but because you ignored energetic balance you find it near impossible to keep your hands of your young female students because now you have such and overload of yang energy and you crave yin energy desperately without understanding how to get it but your body sees young women as a quick fix for that. You might also find that you are still insecure and overcompensate for that in all sorts of ways but are unable to realize that because you have a basic level of realization and so should be beyond that you think. ETc. Etc. Etc.

 

All that being said I believe a lot more practices should be taught openly and earlier on. There are huge variations between how early something is taught in different traditions and what is considered safe and not. B.K. Frantzis wrote that what was jealously guarded "high level" breathing techniques amongst martial artists on Okinawa taught only after decades of study was taught to unfit housewives in beginner classes in qigong on Taiwan. In Hatsumnis (correct spelling?) Glenn Morris said basically only one or a very few was taught enough to learn how to raise their kundalini. Those who take Glenn Morris` KAP course or follow any number of other good systems today can learn to do the same in a safe and balanced way within a few years. So when someone in a system claims with great authority that something is too advanced there is every reason to believe he might just be parroting his tradition without it actually being true. But it is also highly possible that he is correct. Some practices are impossible to get any sort of result with unless you already are an advanced practicioner. Some practices are very dangerous unless you have the foundation in order. Eventually trial and error will reveal the level of accomplishment required to succeed with every practice that is available as people try them out, some people get burnt, some people get nowhere and some people succeed and people exchange experience in an open way like it is done on this forum. That will make it possible to develop guidelines that are both rational and will have credibility enough for most people to follow them. For example in AYP they do not advice spinal breathing from root to crown unless one already has done it root to third eye for a long time and done lots of their other practices and once you start doing it they advice you to do lots of small try outs where you do only a little bit at a time so you can check if you are ready without getting serious issues. From reading in the forum it seems like almost everyone follows that guideline because it is actually based on experience one can trust not just tradition.

 

There will be a human cost in figuring out what can be done at what level etc. because some will get burnt and some will waste time. Eventually after a period of suffering most that get burnt pcik up the pieces and gain balance again anyway. Paying this price in terms of suffering is worth the gains in efficiency and rationality we gain over the long term. If we don`t make that sacrifice we will be stuck in a world were people do asanas and pranayama for eight years until they even try to do beginners level meditation just because Iyengar has some strange opinions and we will suffer decades in Okinawa trying to learn what the local masters woN`t teach when all we have to do is take the boat to Taiwan.

 

THis being said I think it is very important to be thoughtful about what one tries to do and that one do listen a lot to the classical advice given about the level required for a practice. One also need to safe pace as in AYP and do careful tryouts to minimize risk.

 

At the same time as I value this process of tryouts and experiments as a historical process I would never advice any one individual to do such experiments other than to a very modest degree. SO although I am happy some are foolish I advice you not to be a fool. Thogal and all that is highly unrealistic to master for a beginner. Don`t bother. And as I said you will suffer less and likely be more efficient over the course of a life time if you lay the foundation first.

[Aetherous]

.

Edited February 24, 2011 by center

[joeblast]

I do think that if we could all lovingly work together humanity could achieve so much

 

Same argument, different perspective.

 

 

Groupthink kills innovation and promotes "yes man" mentality as acceptable and even desired.

 

Or,

 

once we're all equal, on a perfectly flat playing field, the collective simply isnt going to come up with ideas as innovative as the individual (that doesnt subscribe to groupthink.)

[Marblehead]

 

To sum it up: when you're content about everything (the world, your progress in your path), you're stuck.

 

Caused me a chuckle. I'm content but I have a wierd philosophy. Am I stuck? Sure, in contentment. Hard to beat that.

[Marblehead]

Groupthink kills innovation and promotes "yes man" mentality as acceptable and even desired.

 

Or,

 

once we're all equal, on a perfectly flat playing field, the collective simply isnt going to come up with ideas as innovative as the individual (that doesnt subscribe to groupthink.)

 

Extremely heavy thoughts their, my friend.