You know what's really heart-breaking?

[Aetherous]

.

Edited February 24, 2011 by center

[fiveelementtao]

What is sad is when seekers adopt an attitude of "I want what I want and I want it NOW!"

When one has this attitude, they cannot see the limitless infinity of wisdom right under their nose.

But when a seeker is grateful for what they DO have, then the Universe responds and gives them more than they could have imagined.

 

There are so many powerful practices right here already made available to us. But, many times people do not appreciate them.

 

But, I can tell you from experience that by being grateful for what you have, this opens the way for the Universe to reveal NEW teachings that no one has heard of before. But it starts with using what you have and being grateful for it.

 

What parent enjoys giving more to a spoiled, demanding child?

[Aetherous]

.

Edited February 24, 2011 by center

[devoid]

Hi bodyoflight,

 

It is often said there are no stupid questions.

 

I would like to suggest that people who say that may not been have been exposed to enough questions... Yet, at the same time, this of course doesn't mean that there are no great questions...

 

The point I am trying to make is simply that a good answer requires a good question.

 

In other words, if you cannot articulate what you are looking for in a meaningful way, then how can you expect people to tell you the answer?

[thelerner]

 

Groupthink kills innovation and promotes "yes man" mentality as acceptable and even desired.

 

Or,

 

once we're all equal, on a perfectly flat playing field, the collective simply isnt going to come up with ideas as innovative as the individual (that doesnt subscribe to groupthink.)

 

In my college Fraternity (CoEd Service Fraternity APO) we had a person whose job it was to vote no on everything and on occasion be willing to argue, even ridiculously against any vote that was overwhelmingly a majority.

 

The point wasn't to break peoples heart, it was to slow'em down a little make them think.

 

 

Michael

[Marblehead]

... or maybe you are pathless.

 

Now that made my literally laugh out loud.

 

Sometimes I think I am clueless. Perhaps I am pathless as well.

[Aetherous]

I feel the same way.

[Sahaj Nath]

What's really heart-breaking is that there are brothers and sisters of light in here who, due to their ego, selfishness and greed, would prevent others from reaching the highest levels immediately.. and some of us do have the potential to reach the highest levels cos we have trained in our previous life-times..

 

It is like.. "oh we haven't got to your level yet so how can you leave the world without us?"

 

How sad is the state of affairs..

 

 

hm...

 

i don't know you. maybe i'll get to know you over the next few weeks or so, i don't know. but after reading this thread of yours, i can't for the life of me understand why you would PM me about what i teach. maybe you should do a search on my screen name. i don't pull punches or sugar coat my criticisms around here, and i have ZERO problem with telling people when they are NOT ready for something.

 

so it would seem to me that i would be last person you would want to contact with regard to teaching.

 

a school of cultivation is a knowledge community, and there are correct and incorrect assessments and answers within those communities. it's not all open to interpretation OR negotiation. if you were my student, i would tell you that your thought process and your attitude within this thread is flat-out wrong, and i would debate you and tear down your flawed reasoning, and you wouldn't go any further until you could either defeat my analysis or acknowledge where you were wrong. but the temperament you're displaying here suggests that maybe you wouldn't be able to get past it.

 

you're not entitled to ANYTHING that ANY teacher has to offer. PERIOD. if you had already accrued the necessary merits from previous lifetimes, then you wouldn't be knocking at those wrong doors, eh? no one else can keep you from your destiny, and if you're hungry enough, you should be willing to endure WHATEVER it takes. i might have you walk in sync with your breath for the first 6 months, and then add raising & lowering the arms the next 6 months. what you may not realize is that, while the other students may look like they're doing more advanced stuff, i might have recognized your natural gift and given you a challenge that would allow you to blow right past them, IF you had the temperament to endure it. but you wouldn't be in any position to judge my motives. now, maybe that's simply not the kind of student-teacher dynamic you want, but that doesn't make the teacher selfish or egotistical; just a poor fit for YOU.

 

sometimes wisdom looks like crazy.

 

 

also, here's an article i posted back in '07 with regard to foundation building. i'm a better writer today than i was then, but it still has relevance to this thread:

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/3470-breathe-deep-embrace-simplicity/

Edited February 2, 2011 by Hundun

[bodyoflight]

hm...

 

i don't know you. maybe i'll get to know you over the next few weeks or so, i don't know. but after reading this thread of yours, i can't for the life of me understand why you would PM me about what i teach. maybe you should do a search on my screen name. i don't pull punches or sugar coat my criticisms around here, and i have ZERO problem with telling people when they are NOT ready for something.

 

so it would seem to me that i would be last person you would want to contact with regard to teaching.

 

a school of cultivation is a knowledge community, and there are correct and incorrect assessments and answers within those communities. it's not all open to interpretation OR negotiation. if you were my student, i would tell you that your thought process and your attitude within this thread is flat-out wrong, and i would debate you and tear down your flawed reasoning, and you wouldn't go any further until you could either defeat my analysis or acknowledge where you were wrong. but the temperament you're displaying here suggests that maybe you wouldn't be able to get past it.

 

you're not entitled to ANYTHING that ANY teacher has to offer. PERIOD. if you had already accrued the necessary merits from previous lifetimes, then you wouldn't be knocking at those wrong doors, eh? no one else can keep you from your destiny, and if you're hungry enough, you should be willing to endure WHATEVER it takes. i might have you walk in sync with your breath for the first 6 months, and then add raising & lowering the arms the next 6 months. what you may not realize is that, while the other students may look like they're doing more advanced stuff, i might have recognized your natural gift and given you a challenge that would allow you to blow right past them, IF you had the temperament to endure it. but you wouldn't be in any position to judge my motives. now, maybe that's simply not the kind of student-teacher dynamic you want, but that doesn't make the teacher selfish or egotistical; just a poor fit for YOU.

 

sometimes wisdom looks like crazy.

 

 

also, here's an article i posted back in '07 with regard to foundation building. i'm a better writer today than i was then, but it still has relevance to this thread:

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/3470-breathe-deep-embrace-simplicity/

 

Hundun, i have a question.. do you have a problem with students whose might have greater potential and higher intelligence than you?

 

you said you studied lots of systems and you have stripped those systems of its traditional wrappings and unnecessary elements..

 

in stripping those systems, how do you think the teachers who taught you would feel about you changing their systems due to the fact that you have greater potential and higher intelligence than them?

 

I am a heretic too and a master heretic at that .. the first rule of being a heretic however is that you must be very willing to change the rules.. not only for others but for yourself as well..

 

however, i get the feeling that you are very willing to change the rules of others but not the rules for yourself..

 

"There is no such thing as a smart human being for it is only a matter of time before their ideas are updated, changed or eradicated." - ZEITGEIST

 

Nobody's ideas and concepts last forever.. not yours nor mine.. that is the true path of a seeker cos enlightenment is an ever evolving path..

[Sahaj Nath]

Hundun, i have a question.. do you have a problem with students whose might have greater potential and higher intelligence than you?

 

you said you studied lots of systems and you have stripped those systems of its traditional wrappings and unnecessary elements..

 

in stripping those systems, how do you think the teachers who taught you would feel about you changing their systems due to the fact that you have greater potential and higher intelligence than them?

 

I am a heretic too and a master heretic at that .. the first rule of being a heretic however is that you must be very willing to change the rules.. not only for others but for yourself as well..

 

however, i get the feeling that you are very willing to change the rules of others but not the rules for yourself..

 

"There is no such thing as a smart human being for it is only a matter of time before their ideas are updated, changed or eradicated." - ZEITGEIST

 

Nobody's ideas and concepts last forever.. not yours nor mine.. that is the true path of a seeker cos enlightenment is an ever evolving path..

 

if you're a master heretic, then what are you complaining about?

 

just do what you do. the world is your teacher, and no one can hold you back but YOU.

 

i think you maybe got a little over-defensive here. i wasn't intending to insult you. but it happens.

 

my best teacher recognized the extent of my natural talent. he also recognized what i did not, which was where my limitations and weaknesses were. he was so harsh and unrelenting at times that, to this day, he's the only man who has ever mad me cry. i had to submit to his authority. he knew more than i did. he also believed that i would eventually exceed him, but he didn't let ME know that, because the last thing he wanted to do was feed my hubris. so he spent a lot of time tearing me down, making me do things that i either felt was beneath me, or irrelevant. but i trusted him anyway.

 

and now, i'm free to tear apart any damn thing i want, because he knows that i get it, and i've been tested. i've paid my dues, even with my natural talents. and i needed it, even though i didn't know i needed it at first. he honored me with the title of master in late 2007. and now he's my brother, whereas before, he was more like my father.

 

the last time i counted, i owned over 120 videos (and an equally ridiculous number of books) on qigong, meditation, and the internal arts of various cultures. i'm beholden to no one as i examine the operating principles of the techniques. i'm free to do as i wish with that material. and i take my responsibility very seriously when i teach others heretical approaches that go against the prevailing orthodoxy.

 

what you don't seem to get is that if you were such a student, i would almost be willing to pay you to come study with me. BUT, if you are unable to respect my authority as the primary knowledge-holder in our relationship (until i have decided you have sufficiently developed), and if you can't appreciate my sense of karmic responsibility for your development as your teacher, and if you don't have the patience or the humility to possibly have to perform tasks that you might feel are beneath you, then you wouldn't be very teachable.

 

 

did you get anything else out of what i wrote above? anything at all?

 

 

EDIT:

 

let me add this. to this date i have yet to meet a student whose intellect rivaled my own, but i'm always looking. as far as natural talent, i've had 3 so far whose natural potential exceeded mine. two of them were women, and they both dropped out. both lacked consistency and were too averse to discomfort. but the other guy is a BEAST!

 

i can't keep another person down without staying down with them, and i don't roll like that. anyone who finds this as their true calling gets the greatest joy from witnessing the epiphanies and the overall development of those they teach.

Edited February 2, 2011 by Hundun

[markern]

In my college Fraternity (CoEd Service Fraternity APO) we had a person whose job it was to vote no on everything and on occasion be willing to argue, even ridiculously against any vote that was overwhelmingly a majority.

 

The point wasn't to break peoples heart, it was to slow'em down a little make them think.

 

 

Michael

 

 

I would looooooove that job

[de_paradise]

Happy New Year.

 

The question is why dont the Buddhas, who are immensely higher than whatever attained forum member here, dont just wag their little fingers at our foreheads and enlighten us all, and we could stop this neverending nonsense about wars, oil crises, prisons, etc.Its not selfishness on the part of these higher beings, for they have no ego. The answer so they say, is must allow a person to work for their own enlightenment. This seems all too pat, all to convenient of an answer you'd expect from a religion.

 

Ive pleaded with an array of higher beings to bestow a quickie enlightenment, and using special techniques where I have maximum chance of getting heard, and it hasnt worked. I didnt think of snivelling and trying to shame them though, just a simple, how about me?

 

If you know that higher levels are possible, and some knowlege of how its acheived, then you are already in the millionaire's club. Out of all my friends and family, including K awakened individuals, not one will actually give two shakes of piss to acheive a higher spiritual level, much less meditate, do energy work, improve their behavior, diet, or to check their ego and self-cherishing mind.

 

An interesting practise is metta, that loving-kindness practise, which is basically putting yourself into a synthesized loving emotional state. The synthesized state while in meditations, it turns out is as good as the real thing, and waters the right karmic seeds, sets the right direction.

[Pero]

The question is why dont the Buddhas, who are immensely higher than whatever attained forum member here, dont just wag their little fingers at our foreheads and enlighten us all, and we could stop this neverending nonsense about wars, oil crises, prisons, etc.Its not selfishness on the part of these higher beings, for they have no ego. The answer so they say, is must allow a person to work for their own enlightenment. This seems all too pat, all to convenient of an answer you'd expect from a religion.

 

"Must allow"? Hardly. If Buddhas could enlighten everyone they would've done so, but they're not omnipotent. So it's not about allowing or not allowing, it's about can or can't.

[Marblehead]

Hi Hundun,

 

Just wanted to mention that I am enjoying your posts. Thanks.

[bodyoflight]

You know what's really funny?

 

There's so much politics going on in spirituality and among the highest levels of spiritual masters in this world too.

 

In fact, the level of "politics" in spirituality is much higher than the mundane level of politics found in the world's alphabet agencies, the world's governments and biggest MNCs in the world.

 

Cos the "politics" of spirituality involve the aims of opening up the minds/souls of the masses. They involve energy work and working agreements with parties other than humans born on this earth.

 

It is fcuking hysterical, it really is.

[三江源]

bodyoflight:

Hundun, i have a question.. do you have a problem with students whose might have greater potential and higher intelligence than you?

 

 

 

... to this date i have yet to meet a student whose intellect rivaled my own, but i'm always looking. as far as natural talent, i've had 3 so far whose natural potential exceeded mine. two of them were women, and they both dropped out. both lacked consistency and were too averse to discomfort. but the other guy is a BEAST!

 

 

I think it is true to say that students seek the very teachers that outreach their current position,and inspire them, and when they exceed them they know they have shifted and will move on,to find a teacher that has outstripped them and encourage them onward and upward again.

 

I wouldnt give two shakes of piss ( new phrase for me, de_paradise, thanks...) for a teacher who I didnt feel had a subtlety of grasp that exceeded mine,and I reckon this is the usual position.

 

Finding a teacher that fits is an education in itself.

[XieJia]

"Is it heavy my friends? Perhaps you should put it down... Or you are welcomed to keep on carrying that thing, might be a good exercise; I am just pointing it out that's all"

[bodyoflight]

"Is it heavy my friends? Perhaps you should put it down... Or you are welcomed to keep on carrying that thing, might be a good exercise; I am just pointing it out that's all"

 

you might carry it for me if you want.. i am sick of it..

[bodyoflight]

if you're a master heretic, then what are you complaining about?

 

just do what you do. the world is your teacher, and no one can hold you back but YOU.

 

i think you maybe got a little over-defensive here. i wasn't intending to insult you. but it happens.

 

my best teacher recognized the extent of my natural talent. he also recognized what i did not, which was where my limitations and weaknesses were. he was so harsh and unrelenting at times that, to this day, he's the only man who has ever mad me cry. i had to submit to his authority. he knew more than i did. he also believed that i would eventually exceed him, but he didn't let ME know that, because the last thing he wanted to do was feed my hubris. so he spent a lot of time tearing me down, making me do things that i either felt was beneath me, or irrelevant. but i trusted him anyway.

 

and now, i'm free to tear apart any damn thing i want, because he knows that i get it, and i've been tested. i've paid my dues, even with my natural talents. and i needed it, even though i didn't know i needed it at first. he honored me with the title of master in late 2007. and now he's my brother, whereas before, he was more like my father.

 

the last time i counted, i owned over 120 videos (and an equally ridiculous number of books) on qigong, meditation, and the internal arts of various cultures. i'm beholden to no one as i examine the operating principles of the techniques. i'm free to do as i wish with that material. and i take my responsibility very seriously when i teach others heretical approaches that go against the prevailing orthodoxy.

 

what you don't seem to get is that if you were such a student, i would almost be willing to pay you to come study with me. BUT, if you are unable to respect my authority as the primary knowledge-holder in our relationship (until i have decided you have sufficiently developed), and if you can't appreciate my sense of karmic responsibility for your development as your teacher, and if you don't have the patience or the humility to possibly have to perform tasks that you might feel are beneath you, then you wouldn't be very teachable.

 

 

did you get anything else out of what i wrote above? anything at all?

 

 

EDIT:

 

let me add this. to this date i have yet to meet a student whose intellect rivaled my own, but i'm always looking. as far as natural talent, i've had 3 so far whose natural potential exceeded mine. two of them were women, and they both dropped out. both lacked consistency and were too averse to discomfort. but the other guy is a BEAST!

 

i can't keep another person down without staying down with them, and i don't roll like that. anyone who finds this as their true calling gets the greatest joy from witnessing the epiphanies and the overall development of those they teach.

 

the true purpose of being a teacher is to share your knowledge and wisdom with others so that they may evolve that much quicker..

 

but others have the right to accept your teachings, modify them or reject them..

 

refusing to share knowledge/wisdom with others cos they disagree with you is just your ego brandishing its pride..

 

the concepts of teacher and student are egoistical concepts.. we are all teachers who have something to offer others.. we are all students who can learn from others..

[Spectrum]

Sounds like an scared bunny running to the next hole hiding from the owl.

[Spectrum]

The moment you called yourself a master you became bait. Maybe you can inform us of how gravity has changed on your way down to the watering hole.

[johndoe2012]

the concepts of teacher and student are egoistical concepts.. we are all teachers who have something to offer others.. we are all students who can learn from others..

 

what I quoted here, I totally agree.

 

The distinction between teacher and student is artificial, but some times useful for who need it. Not everybody does.

[johndoe2012]

An interesting practise is metta, that loving-kindness practise, which is basically putting yourself into a synthesized loving emotional state. The synthesized state while in meditations, it turns out is as good as the real thing, and waters the right karmic seeds, sets the right direction.

 

yes, I think if one goes astray, it is because of too little doing metta of one way or the other.

 

My wishing the best for all beings each morning is the best part of my practise and sets the mood for the day.

[Jetsun]

The problem with student master relationship is that it can just be a re-enactment of child parent relationship which is just a repeating the patterns you are trying to break free from. I was recently reading about the psychologist Steven Wolinsky who had studied under a few traditional master relationships where he would do anything the Guru says, but when he met Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj and tried to treat him with the same dynamic Maharaj immediately replied saying something like "I don't play those sorts of childhood games" and Wolinsky immediately knew he had found a master who genuinely wanted to set him free