Vajrahridaya Posted February 5, 2011 Once the I Am consciousness is achieved, then it is just practiced. That's the mental part. The physical part is the total relaxation and opening up of energy channels to allow the kundalini energy to flow; with practice, we can project this on to others for purposes of healing. I get this, but the I AM has to also be seen through and emptied of self reference, for liberation from all that you spoke above to occur, and true Buddhahood to dawn on one. Even while you project kundalini and offer healing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aaron Posted February 6, 2011 (edited) Hello Vaj, I think you may be missing my point. In the end the idea of something being stupid is subjective and if you have reached enlightenment, then you understand that subjectivity is merely an illusion as well. I was talking about this elsewhere, so perhaps it can be used to illustrate this point as well. As human beings we tend to view things in absolutes, good and bad, or as Alan Watts puts it, good vs bad, the Black and White game. The problem is that absolutes are merely opposite ends of the same thing. Birth is better than death, yet both are required for life to exist. Charity requires greed, yet charity is seen as more important than greed, yet greed is required for charity to be appreciated. If one realizes that their own values cannot exist without someone else having different values, then they begin to appreciate those differences and see them as a necessity for their own enlightenment. Those ideas you see as stupid are necessary, because if they didn't exist you would see your own views as being intelligent. Of course the trick is to understand that your views are stupid, especially to the person who views their own ideas as intelligent. If you really want to transcend this world, then first accept all things as they are, understand nothing has more value than anything else, then these other things will fall into place. This doesn't mean that it's acceptable to do bad things, only that bad things exist for a reason, and that by understanding this, you can truly have insight into what is necessary and what isn't. Aaron Edited February 6, 2011 by Twinner 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cat Pillar Posted February 6, 2011 If you really want to transcend this world, then first accept all things as they are, understand nothing has more value than anything else, then these other things will fall into place. This doesn't mean that it's acceptable to do bad things, only that bad things exist for a reason, and that by understanding this, you can truly have insight into what is necessary and what isn't. Curious about something... Isn't "acceptability" a subjective assessment of an action/event? From an enlightened point of view, is there any such thing as "unacceptable?" (I ask because I wouldn't know...my posts should point pretty clearly to that, hehe ) If "evil" is necessary for good to exist, than how can any evil act be considered unacceptable? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aaron Posted February 6, 2011 (edited) Curious about something... Isn't "acceptability" a subjective assessment of an action/event? From an enlightened point of view, is there any such thing as "unacceptable?" (I ask because I wouldn't know...my posts should point pretty clearly to that, hehe ) If "evil" is necessary for good to exist, than how can any evil act be considered unacceptable? Hello Cat Pillar, Because we live in a society that defines right and wrong. Acceptable behavior is behavior that is acceptable and visa versa. As I stated earlier, Watts' stated that we tend to see things in black and white, or black vs white. This doesn't mean that seeing things as black and white is wrong, or doesn't serve a need, only that if one is truly enlightened they will see it for what it is. Try to discuss morality or even subjectivity without being subjective, it can't be done. You can't even be objective without being subjective. The fact is it's one of the ways we understand the world around us, but in the same way it's one of the greatest hindrances for seeing through the ego illusion. Aaron Edited February 6, 2011 by Twinner Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cat Pillar Posted February 6, 2011 Hello Cat Pillar, Because we live in a society that defines right and wrong. Acceptable behavior is behavior that is acceptable and visa versa. As I stated earlier, Watts' stated that we tend to see things in black and white, or black vs white. This doesn't mean that seeing things as black and white is wrong, or doesn't serve a need, only that if one is truly enlightened they will see it for what it is. Try to discuss morality or even subjectivity without being subjective, it can't be done. You can't even be objective without being subjective. The fact is it's one of the ways we understand the world around us, but in the same way it's one of the greatest hindrances for seeing through the ego illusion. Aaron Essentially, it's all in the context? (Or maybe, because there's a context in the first place?) I see what you mean about discussing morality and subjectivity. Thanks for the answer! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vajrahridaya Posted February 6, 2011 (edited) Hello Vaj, I think you may be missing my point. Hi Twinner, You are missing my point as well. One can manifest a discernment without applying substantialized clinging. "Since everything is but an apparition, having nothing to do with good or bad, acceptance or rejection, one may well burst out in laughter" -Longchenpa Edited February 6, 2011 by Vajrahridaya Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manitou Posted February 6, 2011 I personally practiced Taoism for 19 years and never really understood more than just a basic assumption of enlightenment, Tao, and ego, it wasn't until I was exposed to Vendanta Hinduism via Alan Watts' "The Book" that I suddenly became aware of what this all means on an experiential level. I would consider myself enlightened now, at least in regards to understanding the nature of the ego, the truth about reality, and also what Tao is, but trying to explain this is pointless, because it doesn't make sense unless one already has sufficient practice and understanding to grasp the concepts. I couldn't agree more, Aaron. I worked the 12 steps for my alcoholism many years ago, never suspecting that they would lead to the road to enlightenment. I just thought I was clearing out my personality defects so I wouldn't drink any more. Surprise, Surprise. The wonderful little junkets Life takes us on so it can get the results it wants. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aaron Posted February 6, 2011 Hi Twinner, You are missing my point as well. One can manifest a discernment without applying substantialized clinging. "Since everything is but an apparition, having nothing to do with good or bad, acceptance or rejection, one may well burst out in laughter" -Longchenpa Hello Vaj, Yes, but by making this discernment you are clinging. As you stated everything is but an apparition, so why must you feel the need to tell someone their beliefs are stupid? How does that show compassion, tolerance, or love for another? That's my point. Will there ever be a time when I need to tell someone that their ideas are stupid? Yes, but I hope when it comes that I can do it in a way that does not engender anger or bias. My point in the end is that I seem to intuitively feel something wrong with that statement. Aaron Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dwai Posted February 6, 2011 Beautifully said. It becomes a one day at a time exercise in fielding the stimulus that comes in to us, actually 'wearing' the enlightened mindset so that the love or compassion requires. Once the I Am consciousness is achieved, then it is just practiced. That's the mental part. The physical part is the total relaxation and opening up of energy channels to allow the kundalini energy to flow; with practice, we can project this on to others for purposes of healing. The two go together, no? The physical and the mental i mean...why separate that which is one? Mind and body are not two but one Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dwai Posted February 6, 2011 Hello Vaj, Yes, but by making this discernment you are clinging. As you stated everything is but an apparition, so why must you feel the need to tell someone their beliefs are stupid? How does that show compassion, tolerance, or love for another? That's my point. Will there ever be a time when I need to tell someone that their ideas are stupid? Yes, but I hope when it comes that I can do it in a way that does not engender anger or bias. My point in the end is that I seem to intuitively feel something wrong with that statement. Aaron It is seeded in deep insecurity and a need to stand out in a crowd usually...those who know do not tell those tell do not know (old saying) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aaron Posted February 6, 2011 I couldn't agree more, Aaron. I worked the 12 steps for my alcoholism many years ago, never suspecting that they would lead to the road to enlightenment. I just thought I was clearing out my personality defects so I wouldn't drink any more. Surprise, Surprise. The wonderful little junkets Life takes us on so it can get the results it wants. Hello Manitou, You touch on a very important point. You are enlightened by definition, but others might say this view isn't enlightened but only self aware. For me I think self-awareness is key to enlightenment, for it is only when one is self-aware that they understand on an intuitive level that they are not the center of the universe. It is only when one realizes that they are the universe that they can truly understand why they are not only the center of the universe, but everything within the universe. Aaron Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aaron Posted February 6, 2011 (edited) It is seeded in deep insecurity and a need to stand out in a crowd usually...those who know do not tell those tell do not know (old saying) Hello Dwai, When they say, "those who know don't speak and those who do don't know." What they are talking about is the mysterious Tao, that aspect that can't be explained but only experienced. There's no harm in giving an answer, so long as you know the answer and do it with compassion and understanding. Aaron Edited February 6, 2011 by Twinner Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XieJia Posted February 6, 2011 enlightment is a dried out wood log by the other shore Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sifusufi Posted February 6, 2011 enlightment is a dried out wood log by the other shore "A ham hock in your cornflakes" -George Clinton Thanks for triggering this... 01:32 It is what it is Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vajrahridaya Posted February 6, 2011 (edited) Hello Vaj, Yes, but by making this discernment you are clinging. As you stated everything is but an apparition, so why must you feel the need to tell someone their beliefs are stupid? How does that show compassion, tolerance, or love for another? That's my point. Will there ever be a time when I need to tell someone that their ideas are stupid? Yes, but I hope when it comes that I can do it in a way that does not engender anger or bias. My point in the end is that I seem to intuitively feel something wrong with that statement. Aaron I was referring to the volatile and violent actions leading to both self and other harm that happens daily throughout planet Earth that is reflective of a stupid lack of self investigation of which all humans have the capacity for, leading to compassionate action instead of violent activity. You seem to have a very dualistic idea of virtue and compassion. You seem to have a block in your intuition, or you see an arising in yourself that is reflective of this dualistic idea which you mistake as intuitive insight. Because people act stupid when they don't have to, or they only feel that they have to act in ways that are in the end stupid, I have compassion. There is no real substance being demarcated as stupid in my statements. You seem to be projecting only from your own lack of insightful assessment. Edited February 6, 2011 by Vajrahridaya 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheSongsofDistantEarth Posted February 7, 2011 (edited) I was referring to the volatile and violent actions leading to both self and other harm that happens daily throughout planet Earth that is reflective of a stupid lack of self investigation of which all humans have the capacity for, leading to compassionate action instead of violent activity. You seem to have a very dualistic idea of virtue and compassion. You seem to have a block in your intuition, or you see an arising in yourself that is reflective of this dualistic idea which you mistake as intuitive insight. Because people act stupid when they don't have to, or they only feel that they have to act in ways that are in the end stupid, I have compassion. There is no real substance being demarcated as stupid in my statements. You seem to be projecting only from your own lack of insightful assessment. Is this an example of your ttb community service work? Lecturing others on how they are? Yikes, harsh dharma! Where's the equanimity? Your behavior reveals clinging to your ego defenses, over and over again. I see no trace of equanimity in your behavior here, since you arrived here with the preaching and defending, brother Vj. Edited February 7, 2011 by TheSongsofDistantEarth Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vajrahridaya Posted February 7, 2011 right... right. stupid is as stupid sees... Talk about offensive? Taking a statement coming from a place of compassion as some sort of grand revelation of something other than it is!! Yes... yes!! I've had a long weekend dealing with such scourge of the Earth, drunk asshole minded thugs, seeing people getting beat up, smashed over the head, knocked into a coma on the railroad tracks with thick oozing blood coming from mouth and nose, so many, many occurrences of stupid animal behavior manifested through the human capacity all week and weekend long... So many remarks of hate and violence coming from cars, speakers, and mouths in this, "dirty south" area that I work in at night... I'm just saturated and over with peoples projections, misunderstandings and ignorant vision of both me and the world. Yes... It's rubbed off on me. Sometimes the way I make my money is over testing!!! IM NOT A BUDDHA!!! But, I know Twinner is wrong about my intention in my remark. I am psychically aware, very aurically sensitive, sometimes a bit naked, many times the object of ridicule while on a pedicab or otherwise... blah, blah, blah... Sometimes I get sick of stupid people who do no more than ruin the planet both inside and around them... Ah... patience, more patience, more compassion... pleeeeeeease!!! More of the 4 brahmaviharas (immeasurables)... please!!! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vajrahridaya Posted February 7, 2011 I have to go deal with it again tonight!! The after Super Bowl crowd at that!!! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vajrahridaya Posted February 7, 2011 (edited) Whoa Mr. Vaj...one round of tonglen for you coming up! Aw.... you just made me cry... Seriously... thanks so much sweetness!! Whew..... whew.... whew.... Om Ah Hum. p.s. not kidding about the cry part... Edited February 7, 2011 by Vajrahridaya 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zerostao Posted February 7, 2011 I have to go deal with it again tonight!! The after Super Bowl crowd at that!!! i hear you brother its 4th quarter btw so brace or embrace whichever. christina aguilera even is taking criticism for her performance of the star spangled banner....everyone is a critic i am 101% taoist but i do find value in many of your posts here. some i but maybe my level of understanding is not reached where it would make more sense. last week i did some sleep/sensory depravation practice and a couple of posts i made when i went back and looked at them , they didnt even make sense to me hang in there and do not let the world beat you down. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky7Strikes Posted February 7, 2011 (edited) I have to go deal with it again tonight!! The after Super Bowl crowd at that!!! . I send you best wishes man. I realize that the more you open up to the world, the pain of others literally hits you over the head. Edited February 7, 2011 by Lucky7Strikes Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vajrahridaya Posted February 7, 2011 Thanks so much Zerostao and LS7!! Thanks... so much. So does peoples compassion hit me over the head with more umph! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aaron Posted February 7, 2011 I was referring to the volatile and violent actions leading to both self and other harm that happens daily throughout planet Earth that is reflective of a stupid lack of self investigation of which all humans have the capacity for, leading to compassionate action instead of violent activity. You seem to have a very dualistic idea of virtue and compassion. You seem to have a block in your intuition, or you see an arising in yourself that is reflective of this dualistic idea which you mistake as intuitive insight. Because people act stupid when they don't have to, or they only feel that they have to act in ways that are in the end stupid, I have compassion. There is no real substance being demarcated as stupid in my statements. You seem to be projecting only from your own lack of insightful assessment. Hello Vaj, It's pointless to debate it, you either see it or don't. If you can't understand the nature of the animosity that has been shown to you by others or the root cause, even after it's been clearly explained to you, then there's nothing more I can do. Peace be with you. Aaron 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vajrahridaya Posted February 7, 2011 Hello Vaj, It's pointless to debate it, you either see it or don't. If you can't understand the nature of the animosity that has been shown to you by others or the root cause, even after it's been clearly explained to you, then there's nothing more I can do. Peace be with you. Aaron Wow Aaron... There is no animosity calling stupidity by it's name, and stupid means lack of intelligent thought, period! Feel yourself some more. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aaron Posted February 7, 2011 Wow Aaron... There is no animosity calling stupidity by it's name, and stupid means lack of intelligent thought, period! Feel yourself some more. Hello Vaj, You have an excellent grasp of the principles of enlightenment, but you need further practice. I hope you find what you are looking for. Peace be with you. Aaron Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
