What is your Enlightenment paradigm?

[Vajrahridaya]

Hello Vaj,

 

You have an excellent grasp of the principles of enlightenment, but you need further practice. I hope you find what you are looking for.

 

Peace be with you.

 

Aaron

 

Twinner, stop acting like some Buddha. You don't have the proper insight to judge anything of me.

 

Yes, of course I need more practice... wow... so do you. Mr. high horse Aaron. Leave me be. You are in no position to guru anyone, and neither am I. All I try to talk here is philosophy as I'm in no position to be a guru of methods even though I know tons. I will sometimes offer some basic practices that I had done for years which worked for me.

 

Do the same and stop thinking you understanding my intentions with any real validity.

[Vajrahridaya]

i hear you brother its 4th quarter btw so brace or embrace whichever.

 

Actually was totally dead downtown and on the beach. I went out for an hour, got one 55 dollar tour and came home.

 

Very easy night!

[forestofclarity]

For a paradigm, I prefer Indian Vedanta for metaphysics, Buddhist for practice, and Taoist for inspiration.

 

Let me explain, and in the process, offend at least half the board.

 

In my opinion, Indian thought is not so different from Western thought. You can find a lot of in depth, detailed analysis, no unlike Western science, but it is applied internally. Vedantans are able to speak clearly and precisely. It is fairly simple to pick up a book written by an ancient Indian sage and understand it.

 

When it comes to practice, for a householder, I prefer Buddhism. Buddhism has the same analytical Indian roots, but more focused on practical psychology. There are also many great Buddhist teachers in this country, and it is typically easy to find a group to practice with, unlike Vedanta.

 

Yet when it comes to pointing to the mystery, the subtlety, the undefinable quality of the Tao, no one can beat the Taoists.

[Aaron]

Twinner, stop acting like some Buddha. You don't have the proper insight to judge anything of me.

 

Yes, of course I need more practice... wow... so do you. Mr. high horse Aaron. Leave me be. You are in no position to guru anyone, and neither am I. All I try to talk here is philosophy as I'm in no position to be a guru of methods even though I know tons. I will sometimes offer some basic practices that I had done for years which worked for me.

 

Do the same and stop thinking you understanding my intentions with any real validity.

 

 

Hello Vaj,

 

Intentions mean nothing, it's the result of the action that matters. Intending to do good, but ending up killing someone in the process, still results in that person's death, regardless of your intention. In the end whether or not you are trying or not trying to do something doesn't matter so much as what you're actually doing. That is why I recommend that you try to respect people's opinions and action as much as you can and that you also restrain from making moral and value judgments when you can. Remember your moral and value system does not preclude you from offending others.

 

Also I "guru" people on a daily basis. The only real necessity is to understand the nature of the problem and advise a solution to that problem. Of course you must also have people willing to listen.

 

Peace be with you.

 

Aaron

[Vajrahridaya]

Hello Vaj,

 

Intentions mean nothing, it's the result of the action that matters. Intending to do good, but ending up killing someone in the process, still results in that person's death, regardless of your intention. In the end whether or not you are trying or not trying to do something doesn't matter so much as what you're actually doing. That is why I recommend that you try to respect people's opinions and action as much as you can and that you also restrain from making moral and value judgments when you can. Remember your moral and value system does not preclude you from offending others.

 

Also I "guru" people on a daily basis. The only real necessity is to understand the nature of the problem and advise a solution to that problem. Of course you must also have people willing to listen.

 

Peace be with you.

 

Aaron

 

Yes, but you're talking to someone else right now. As in, not me.

[thelerner]

Great insights on these posts. Tightening up the subject to the mind. Some people objected to my view of 2 different enlightenments, some have mind, body, or both. But I call it how I see it out my window.

 

Starting with the mind, there is a split in traditions between self inquiry and just quieting the damn thing. I think both end in the same place. Are both required? And what is the next step after the mind is quiet?

 

 

Michael

[XieJia]

When the surface of the water is calm, it reflects.

 

When there's no water, no reflection

 

[dwai]

For a paradigm, I prefer Indian Vedanta for metaphysics, Buddhist for practice, and Taoist for inspiration.

 

Let me explain, and in the process, offend at least half the board.

 

In my opinion, Indian thought is not so different from Western thought. You can find a lot of in depth, detailed analysis, no unlike Western science, but it is applied internally. Vedantans are able to speak clearly and precisely. It is fairly simple to pick up a book written by an ancient Indian sage and understand it.

 

When it comes to practice, for a householder, I prefer Buddhism. Buddhism has the same analytical Indian roots, but more focused on practical psychology. There are also many great Buddhist teachers in this country, and it is typically easy to find a group to practice with, unlike Vedanta.

 

Yet when it comes to pointing to the mystery, the subtlety, the undefinable quality of the Tao, no one can beat the Taoists.

 

 

beautifully said my friend!

 

 

[Otis]

I'm looking for people to put in not just what Enlightenment means to them, but what tradition it comes from and what role models they have. Typical practice would be nice too.

My own path began as a result of a bad back. My whole life, I've lived within severe limits, proscribed by muscles with intense and volatile tendencies toward spasm. All parts of my body were affected, but the area around my sacrum has always had the craziest triggers.

 

At the age of 32, after an episode which incapacitated me for a few months, I took a movement therapy class, which was a combination of Continuum and Body/Mind Centering. In both practices, the idea is to teach the person how to really listen to deep sensation, and allow that sensation to lead the body into its own healing.

 

When I first heard my internal conversation with clarity, it was an amazing epiphany. I had no idea how much pain and tension I had, and had been tuning out from, over the years.

 

As I practiced listening to sensation, I realized that my listening would give rise to deep delicious stretches, that my body would seek out, without my intention or interference. Soon, I realized that if I brought that same awareness to dance, that my body would go deep into new territory, without the slightest intent or will on my part.

 

It was at that point that I realized that "I" am superfluous, and that my body has a lot more intelligence than "I" have. It became clear that the more I practiced surrendering this "I", the more freedom and joy my body experienced. Also, the more physical practice I had, the more I saw my emotional landscape slowing down, becoming simpler, less volatile.

 

It wasn't long after this, that I started discovering Zen for the first time, and re-discovering Taoism. I recognized a lot of the talk of "emptiness" and "surrender" and "wu wei" or "non-self", as being related to what I was experiencing, when I got out of my body's way. Soon, I began to think of the body as the Buddha, because it is the whole self, whereas the "I" is just one small part, one function.

 

Because I began to pay attention to the traditions after finding what I consider to be "my path", I have been very slow to take on technique from those traditions. After all, all the techniques seemed to be there to help us find our paths. Once the path was found and the relationship became intimate, I saw no reason to put a bunch of concepts or a hierarchy between me and it.

 

My view on the traditions, dharmas, TTC, etc. is that they are all holographic images of reality (not reality itself). If I shine them through any situation, they help illuminate things about the situation that I might miss on my own. The more laser beams (traditions) that shine from the more directions, the more 3-D the model of reality becomes, so it helps to illuminate and give context to my path. The traditions themselves are not the path for me, because that path is always one unique and specific to me. Nor will my realization/awakening look like anyone else's because I have different things to wake up from.

 

Practices: stretch, dance, break-dance, parkour, spontaneous qi gung / tai chi / IMA / tantra, stunts, whirling, staff/prop play, mindfulness, standing meditation, barefoot hiking, playing, improv comedy, acting, etc.

[KCHooligan]

The picture of Enlightenment I've been building in my mind is the capacity to achieve Te within every minute of one's life, like the Sage's written of in the Tao Te Ching. The most appealling part to me (and the reason that caused me to seek out Taoism in the first place) is a personal battle I have with addiction. What many people seem to think of as enlightenment is not the same concept for the term as I've developed.

 

For instance, I've read numerous views that place enlightenment as the experience itself that accompanies daily meditation and the successful application of emptying one's mind in this process. To me, the act of meditation is just one of many tools that I hope will translate to true Enlightenment (healthy living another essential from what I gather); that is to say enlightenment will not transpire during the meditative state, but manifest itself in my daily life throughout the day. Enlightenment to me would be being so okay with life, that I am able to not abuse substances to feel okay with life (I would also like to explain "okay" means acceptance, not happiness).

 

Way simpler than most people on here approach the subject I know. But one has to start somewhere.

[solxyz]

All experience is the burning sweet nectar of reality. On account of the sweetness, we want it. On account of the burning, we don't. In an attempt to manage this tension, we have created the great Rube Goldberg of the soul: a demanding jurisdiction of valves, turnstiles, permission slips, color schemes, hypno-codes, blind alleys, by-passes, vantage stations, conundrum clauses, and secret societies. For the purpose of managing, this sometimes works and sometimes doesnt. But it never feels quite right; something seems to lacking, and we start to think that we might be alienated. When we give up on this project and learn to swim in the sea of fire, then we become free people, citizens of the realm of truth.

 

I suppose this is pretty clearly in the "mental" model.

[zerostao]

enlightenment i dont know about. my goal now is to increase wisdom, awareness, and compassion.

use some skilful knowledge.

[solxyz]

 

Starting with the mind, there is a split in traditions between self inquiry and just quieting the damn thing. I think both end in the same place. Are both required? And what is the next step after the mind is quiet?

 

 

Seems to me that quieting the mind can be a useful preparation, but at some point it must be abandoned. I could argue this philosophically, saying that this goal of quieting becomes a point of reference or clinging and that full enlightenment should make room even for waves of mental noise, but actually I approach this more practically. In meditation it is clear to me that at sometimes I need to increase focus and precision, and at other times I need to let go and ride the wave of whatever arises.

 

Sometimes I ask myself whether, outside of formal practice, my mind is quieter these days than it was in the past. Im not really sure. I do seem clearer about who I am, and whats important, and more able to focus on tasks at hand, but I dont think there is any less mental chatter while I walk down the street.

[Eviander]

Mine is a conglomerate that circumscribes the cosmos. I believe enlightenment can be likened to permanently harmonizing with the rhythm of the universe.

[moonshadow]

Oh my!

 

Definitely non-dualism. Recognition of one's limited perspective at any given moment. The sense of the world and the universe flowing through you rather than being "out there". The continuous discovery of what you are made of. The repeated banging "down to earth" again when you forget or you hit an edge of yourself or someone else.

 

Practices

 

- KAP

- Shaking

- Mindfulness

- Emptiness meditation (hanging out in the space between thoughts)

- Being in the world

- Random experiments upon self

- Good food

- Reading and research to gain useful "working knowledge" of whatever works

I can relate to most of this I will look into what KAP is about? The rest of it sounds right on.

[moonshadow]

enlightment is a dried out wood log by the other shore

Yes and one that was gathered up and used to kindle a campfire?!

[lazy cloud]

I have had a few brief moments in my life when I felt I had caught a glimpse of enlightenment. It was very fleeting. There were moments when everything seemed to come together in simplicity and clarity. These moments usually arrive when I am out enjoying nature.

 

I often wonder how it is that I cannot hold onto the feeling. They just fade away.

[adept]

I often wonder how it is that I cannot hold onto the feeling.

 

Because your trying to grasp the un-graspable.

For want of another word, craving. The cause of all human suffering and stress.

Better to just relax and enjoy the moment, without expectation.

[2netis]

[Jetsun]

Very interesting thoughts 2netis, that's pretty amazing you got to study with Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj, there is clearly a great deal of wisdom in Vedanta and I like it's simplification in approach, yet it always appeared strange to me that a lot of the main masters seemed to die of cancer; could that be from not working with the body enough you think? I am no expert on the causes of cancer but it always surprises me when I hear a master has been affected by it as I would assume that with all the channels being open and there being no blockages it would be difficult for it to take root

Edited February 19, 2011 by Jetsun

[2netis]

strange to me that a lot of the main masters seemed to die of cancer, could that be from now working with the body enough you think? I am no expert on the causes of cancer but it always surprises me when I hear a master has been affected by it as I would assume that with all the channels being open and there being no blockages it would be difficult for it to take root

 

Hi Jetsun,

 

.....and thanks for the comments. True that Maharaj and Ramana both died of cancer and you may well have a point about the kind of lifestyle. Would not be the first time either. On the other hand, they were advanced age and were going to die of something - a cold perhaps? Bombay, where Maharaj lived is not exactly the most environmentally conscious place and the Ganges river is (or has been) polluted beyond all imagination. Maybe all that adds up. I love what Maharaj liked to say when he was diagnosed with cancer. He barked: "They accuse me of having a disease!" His comment is both about the unrealized state of allopathic doctors in general and of his own recognition that what is alive is not the body nor does that aliveness - that beingness - constitute what gets 'sick and dies'. He is talking about the illusion of life and death. Or would we accuse the tree in the front yard of having dropped it's leaves too soon?

 

Master LInji stresses this over and over in talking about the true man of no rank going in and out of that lump of red flesh. The Kalahari Shaman Bushmen would hilariously call the doctor's ignorance: "Insulting the meat!" They certainly know where the sapience lies.

 

Best to you.

[paulno]

Role model wise I have several Jesus, Buddha, Lao Tzu etc. In the modern day people like Thich Nhat Han, Tony Campolo, Shane Claiborne, Gandhi (okay he's not modern but you know what I mean ), MLK Jr. , etc. I could go on and on.

 

Usually, men of peace who show unconditional love even in times of immense hatred. In my eyes that's a real sign of enlightenment. As you can see its sort of a Gumbo of regions and cultures.

 

Practice wise its hard to say. I'm sort of scatter brained and reeling it in. A seeker in a sense. Lately, I've been doing the Star Exercise I learned from this forum very recently and I'm liking it.

[zerostao]

i am not seeking enlightenment. i have other goals to work on .

i do wish physical,mental,& spiritual good health. i try to do my part and leave it up to the stars if they will continue to shine on, around, over, or thru me.

the happiness,freedom, and peace of mind that i have was attained by giving them to someone else.

[The Observer]

In addition to my earlier post, I will say this...enlightenment is simply raising your conciousness. This happens to various degrees as seen in various saints, healers, prophets and awakened people. When one reaches certain frequencies you have concious control of your destiny instead of ceaselessly wandering (samsara) from one incarnation to the next as a slave to your deeply ingrained instincts, attachment and habits. When you die you constantly crave stimulation, so when you're in the bardo/in between your essence will get sucked into an existence/incarnation where it can be stimulated according to past habits and desires. This is why it's so important for us not so much to repress, but master our bad habits/lower emotions; this is the real gem that must be held close to the heart of the follower of any path.

 

 

 

This is what I have pieced together thus far as the essence of all religious teachings, don't take it for gospel.

Edited February 20, 2011 by The Observer

[wearydreamer]

For at least an year I haven't been thinking much about "Enlightenment" with this ego busy pampering itself with quite worldly life.

 

But stumbling upon this thread invoked a sudden desire in me resume pondering about it again and start some form of practicing.

 

So I had been pretty much of rational kinds; trying to beat everything by logic. I kept questioning everything and destructing the underlying assumption. So I was just minimizing assumption I needed for defining my consciousness. But logical theory always needs an axiom to start with, which is just assumed (e.g., postulates of special relativity). So if you destroy all the assumptions you are not left with any theory.

 

So in the end axiom destruction went like : Should I assume what I see to be real? => ok then what is real? may be something that is in time and space => Ok then what is time and space? may be just the Mind or pretty much like five senses. I defined senses as a "context" for information, say like something is sweet in context of "Taste". Also it can be observed that taste, color etc are not defined in time and space. They are pretty much like time and space, a context => So real is nothing more than what Mind can define in terms of five senses and time and space => ok then what is Mind?

 

WTF? Now Mind needs to define the Mind (without limiting it in terms of real). Now that is infinite recursion. Unsolvable. Or you can also think like defining the definition? Unsolvable recursion.

 

Interestingly all the metaphysical analogies for this Universe (say like the popular big organism model of which all is one big organism and we being just like a finger with an ego) start appearing to me as futile attempts to solve the unsolvable.

 

That used to give quite a blank kind of feeling. As if all of sudden the thought makes everything meaningless and there is nothing.

 

But staying there is not an option. I need come back to my normal everyday life where I still have to apply everyday ethics of what is right and what is wrong. It cant be done without resuming my discarded assumptions. And I remain stuck in the world of all assumed meanings.

 

Further, we are pre-programmed with natural tendencies like carnelian pleasures. And when those everyday decision keep rewarding me with a nice tasty meal with beautiful girl at the end of the day, I stop making any effort to come out of that world. Till it stops rewarding me. Rewards reduced a bit recently. So I guess good time to spend more time in meaninglessness. May I will learn some trick live everyday life along with meaninglessness.

 

I dont know what opinion should I ask or what practice? All questions need assumed meaning.