Dependent Origination

[Marblehead]

... you will reach the state of Nirvana. Peace at last. Now that state is impossible to describe, but what I felt is that you'll dissolve yourself into nothingness and then...no idea what happens next...man it is extremely difficult to reach that last, ultimate jump. I wish it was easier!

 

I am in no hurry whatever to get there. I still have too much life in me.

[Marblehead]

 

Without sadness, I would not be able to distinguish the flavor of happiness!

 

Hehehe. Ah!, dualities! Ain't they wonderous things?

[Marblehead]

Who said I am an unhappy or happy being.

 

Trascend the both is the wisdom of a Buddha.

 

Take care.

 

Oh no! Not yet! I still want to experience the 'happy'. Therefore I must, freely and without prejudice, accept the occasional 'unhappy'. There will be plenty of time for the non-being later on.

[Edward M]

Don't forget when Gautama Buddha talked of jealous God's, he was speaking from a hindu perspective, not from a monotheistic one.

 

Yahweh when translated correctly means "All that was, is and ever will be".

 

As far as i understand from reading a book by the Dalai Lama, the idea of no cause came from not just dependent origination, but also the belief that there are limitless universes out there, which was said by some buddhist scholar/monk not by the buddha himself.

 

peace

 

Ed

[Vajrahridaya]

Well there is the way buddhism teaches, that is to work on the channels and bindus in the body.

 

Dalai Lama says the degree of enlightenment is directly correlated to the configuration of channels etc. in the body.

 

And Namdrol says the sooner that everyone realizes that it is all about working on the channels etc. in body, the better.

 

That's what I did in meditation. Indeed.

[manitou]

It seems to me that we're almost talking about apples and oranges.

 

My guess is that the meditative journey that takes one to separate realities, such as the scenario Veejay refers to, is more a phenomenon of seeking. That dynamic is from the inside to the outside. Yes, there are separate realities; they can also be accessed through shamanic techniques. I'm not sure Buddha had the only handle on it, I think the indigenous were well aware of the separate realities as well.

 

The other journey is the journey from the outside to the inside. This is where the Personality gets edited, and this is the path that ends up at the One. It's the journey of self-awareness, the series of internal gulps of 'Aha!' that ties together that which we have learned on the outside with what we are on the inside. If done over a long period of time and with great impeccability, it brings us to the source; hence the term 'sorcery'?. It's entirely different than the inside to the outside; rather, this is the clearing process that brings us to the One (or, if the Buddhists prefer, the space between the matter).

 

It seems to me that the Middle Way is the perfect blend of the two. The Middle Way brings us into balance so we don't get too far out in either direction.

Edited February 6, 2011 by manitou

[manitou]

//

Edited February 6, 2011 by manitou

[ben]

[Ya Mu]

[三江源]

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Edited April 13, 2015 by 三江源

[ralis]

[Lucky7Strikes]

Interesting post.

While I am going to mostly stay away from this thread, I did read over it, attempting to make practical sense of it all. Your post puts it back into real-time, as in exactly what does one achieve from this practice and belief system of dependent origination. That is what I would like to read, actual experiences of health, happiness, spiritual calmness, help to humanity, etc from those experienced in this belief.

Understanding of Dependent Origination unbinds one from obsessive thoughts or attachment to states and forms, thereby ending all mental and physical suffering. :lol: :lol:

 

The Channels of the body open up naturally with just the breath and everything feels peaceful and harmonious without any effort made, but just conscious knowledge of the way things are.

[Lucky7Strikes]

Most Buddhists I know are lost when it comes to functioning in the world. Health difficulties and complacent attitudes are not uncommon. I don't see any interest or motivation to improve people's live in a practical way. I am referring to problems in the environment, lack of food in certain areas, fresh water, energy etc. This stems from the "everything is ok " attitude.

The natural state is a compassionate state. It is natural in that there is no effort to be compassionate. You are just a nice person. Only people can improve their own lives, spiritual practitioners often fall into egoic traps of being "guides" or "helpers."

[Lucky7Strikes]

Most Buddhists I know are lost when it comes to functioning in the world. Health difficulties and complacent attitudes are not uncommon. I don't see any interest or motivation to improve people's live in a practical way. I am referring to problems in the environment, lack of food in certain areas, fresh water, energy etc. This stems from the "everything is ok " attitude.

Why are you so twisted man? Hehehehehe.

Edited February 6, 2011 by Lucky7Strikes

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Understanding of Dependent Origination unbinds one from obsessive thoughts or attachment to states and forms, thereby ending all mental and physical suffering. :lol: :lol:

 

The Channels of the body open up naturally with just the breath and everything feels peaceful and harmonious without any effort made, but just conscious knowledge of the way things are.

 

 

Theoretically perhaps, but I don't note it actually occurring in the real world.

[ralis]

Why are you so twisted man? Hehehehehe.

 

I make a statement and you attack me for what reason?

[Ya Mu]

...

The Channels of the body open up naturally with just the breath and everything feels peaceful and harmonious without any effort made, but just conscious knowledge of the way things are.

A start, but the breath, channels opening, etc. has nothing to do with the dependent origination belief. It is common in many systems. What exactly has the belief done - it has most definitely not, for humanity, done this, "Understanding of Dependent Origination... thereby ending all mental and physical suffering" Unbinding from obsessive thoughts is also common in many systems and not dependent on dependent origination belief.

[ralis]

A start, but the breath, channels opening, etc. has nothing to do with the dependent origination belief. It is common in many systems. What exactly has the belief done - it has most definitely not, for humanity, done this, "Understanding of Dependent Origination... thereby ending all mental and physical suffering" Unbinding from obsessive thoughts is also common in many systems and not dependent on dependent origination belief.

 

I believe D.O. is more on the theoretical as opposed to practical. The theoretical is in the domain of the monastic and in most systems it is heresy to use such processes as practical applications to solve real world problems.

[RongzomFan]

channels opening, etc. has nothing to do with the dependent origination belief.

 

 

Dalai Lama says the degree of enlightenment is directly correlated to the configuration of channels etc. in the body.

 

Like I said the sooner that everyone realizes that it is all about working on the channels etc. in body, the better.

 

If you think that has nothing to do with dependent origination, then you don't get dependent origination.

[manitou]

Certainly Buddhism teaches more than just getting out of suffering? This is a pretty one-way mindset. There must be more.

 

It just feels to me like we're always going up the same hill on different sides. Both disciplines go so very deeply into self; the Sage can't be a Sage unless he's become self realized. And I see that the non-attachment disciplines of Buddhism would do the same, would find the I Am within. The thing which differentiates us who care about such things is, how self-honest are we each capable of being?

 

There's can't be two separate truths standing alone. There is one truth. Maybe we're still evolving in this respect. Maybe our challenge is to find the connections between these two so they can merge. I just know that if we put the yang in front of the yin, or reversed the black and white on the tao symbol, or something....that the joinder would be made clear.

 

The ego involvement only gets in the way of this.

[ralis]

Why are you so twisted man? Hehehehehe.

 

I guess that is the attitude of heartfelt compassion!

[Ya Mu]

Dalai Lama says the degree of enlightenment is directly correlated to the configuration of channels etc. in the body.

 

Like I said the sooner that everyone realizes that it is all about working on the channels etc. in body, the better.

 

If you think that has nothing to do with dependent origination, then you don't get dependent origination.

Well, of course I don't "get" dependent origination. Otherwise I would have given the same over and over theoretical argument that has been used here that of course is dependent on the belief that this is so. Which is why I asked for practical examples.

AND, the channels opening have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the belief in dependent origination as they open quite well with other practices that have nothing to do with this belief.

[Jetsun]

A start, but the breath, channels opening, etc. has nothing to do with the dependent origination belief. It is common in many systems. What exactly has the belief done - it has most definitely not, for humanity, done this, "Understanding of Dependent Origination... thereby ending all mental and physical suffering" Unbinding from obsessive thoughts is also common in many systems and not dependent on dependent origination belief.

 

My understanding is that a mental grasp of dependent origination isn't enough rather you need a deep permanent realisation of it which then will dissolve your sense of a separate self which is supposedly the root cause of suffering. Many other systems deal with opening the channels and removing tensions but the Buddhist aim is to go for the root tension or corner stone which holds the foundations of all the tensions and blockages in the channels together which is the belief in a separate self, deal with that and the whole structure of blockages which are preventing you from seeing clearly comes crashing down. Even temporary realisations of this are supposedly life changing and deeply healing.

 

That is the theory from my understanding and those people who I have met who are trying to realise this and apply these ideas are the most compassionate people I have ever met which suggests to me that they are on to something.

[Ya Mu]

My understanding is that a mental grasp of dependent origination isn't enough rather you need a deep permanent realisation of it which then will dissolve your sense of a separate self which is supposedly the root cause of suffering. Many other systems deal with opening the channels and removing tensions but the Buddhist aim is to go for the root tension or corner stone which holds the foundations of all the tensions and blockages in the channels together which is the belief in a separate self, deal with that and the whole structure of blockages which are preventing you from seeing clearly comes crashing down. Even temporary realisations of this are supposedly life changing and deeply healing.

 

That is the theory from my understanding and those people who I have met who are trying to realise this and apply these ideas are the most compassionate people I have ever met which suggests to me that they are on to something.

OK

BUT "Many other systems deal with opening the channels and removing tensions but the Buddhist aim is to go for the root tension or corner stone which holds the foundations of all the tensions and blockages in the channels together which is the belief in a separate self...

Many other systems strive for and accomplish the same thing so no, this accomplishment is not dependent on the belief in dependent origination.

 

In addition, many other people besides Buddhists are some of the nicest most compassionate people I have ever met, so this compassion and ability to be nice is not dependent on the belief in dependent origination.

[Jetsun]

OK

BUT "Many other systems deal with opening the channels and removing tensions but the Buddhist aim is to go for the root tension or corner stone which holds the foundations of all the tensions and blockages in the channels together which is the belief in a separate self...

Many other systems strive for and accomplish the same thing so no, this accomplishment is not dependent on the belief in dependent origination.

 

When investigating the nature of the self the truth must be that it is either independent or it is reliant on causes on conditions ie it is dependently originated, surely only one of these can be the ultimate truth of the self, beliefs aren't important. I have not personally realised any of this but I don't see how you can realise that the sense of a separate self is an illusion without also seeing that it is dependently originated, unless I am missing something they seem to go hand in hand.