Dependent Origination

[Ya Mu]

Yes, I've practiced for years. Please do you, don't try to do me. We are here to read posts.

...

I think maybe a lot of you, due to the fact that your only exposure to Buddhism is through much of the philosophical points argued here, that you think this is all Buddhism is about?

"Yes, I've practiced for years. Please do you, don't try to do me...."

This is not what you said. You said you had read for years - not practiced, and I only was repeating what you said.

And it is very ignorant of you to think that my only exposure to Buddhism is through the philosophical points posted here. I was posting relative to the points here.

 

And what you are saying about the healing methods THAT is what I was asking you to post instead of all the intellectual rambling. SPECIFIC information.

[Ya Mu]

He has no substantive evidence to present. ...

I have not yet seen this practical evidence. I guess the thing is one could substitute the word "Jesus" in all the places where DO is used and to me, it would be saying the same thing.

I like to see practical evidence and I also don't understand any system where the emphasis is on the mental, as to me it makes no sense. But hey, that is just me and to each his own. I only posted because I felt "Ben"'s post was a good question and would be ignored while more mental "indulgent challenges" were tossed about. I also can't personally embrace any system that denies who one really is instead of assuming responsibility for who they really are. But there are many beliefs on this world.

[Vajrahridaya]

"Yes, I've practiced for years. Please do you, don't try to do me...."

This is not what you said. You said you had read for years - not practiced, and I only was repeating what you said.

And it is very ignorant of you to think that my only exposure to Buddhism is through the philosophical points posted here. I was posting relative to the points here.

 

I didn't specifically say anybody concerning exposure to Buddhism... I said, "MAYBE" a lot of you, so no need to react.

 

Also... I've mentioned many times and in many places throughout the years here on TTB that I had committed to 4 to 6 hours of sitting practice for years, sometimes more per day in previous years, including fasting and days of a vow of silence amongst crowds with a pen and paper to write messages for people so that I could stay silent, lived in ashrams at different times for a total of about 4 or a little more years... etc. etc.

 

And what you are saying about the healing methods THAT is what I was asking you to post instead of all the intellectual rambling. SPECIFIC information.

 

So I did. The rest is not rambling to me, so won't be interpreted as rambling as I write it, by me.

[Ya Mu]

...

Also... I've mentioned many times and in many places throughout the years here on TTB that I had committed to 4 to 6 hours of sitting practice for years, sometimes more per day in previous years, including fasting and days of a vow of silence amongst crowds with a pen and paper to write messages for people so that I could stay silent, lived in ashrams at different times for a total of about 4 or a little more years... etc. etc....

Buddhist passive sitting or a Taoist neigong practice? Two totally different things.

But, thanks for posting a tidbit about the healing practices even though I STILL have heard no specific info.

[Sunya]

And yea, I do think that ralis is somehow focused on criticizing you above all else. When other people demonstrate poor writing style or say idiotic things ralis doesn't necessarily respond. But when you do it, he'll be sure to respond. It's almost like he's adopted you as his child.

 

 

But Vaj keeps responding to him and keeps fueling the fire... I said it before, you guys have weird karma, like you were married in a past life or something.

[Vajrahridaya]

I have not yet seen this practical evidence. I guess the thing is one could substitute the word "Jesus" in all the places where DO is used and to me, it would be saying the same thing.

I like to see practical evidence and I also don't understand any system where the emphasis is on the mental, as to me it makes no sense. But hey, that is just me and to each his own. I only posted because I felt "Ben"'s post was a good question and would be ignored while more mental "indulgent challenges" were tossed about. I also can't personally embrace any system that denies who one really is instead of assuming responsibility for who they really are. But there are many beliefs on this world.

 

Ya Mu... you are increasingly exposing yourself as one of the people who are not here to learn anything.

 

I have posted links to reading material, to sites on Kunye massage and the 84 mahasiddhas and a bit of their life stories written about on a site that has plenty of their poetry. I can post sites on various Yoga forms in Buddhism like this one... Yantra Yoga. But you people don't click on these links... ?? Why do you ask if you're not honestly interested in learning??

 

Concrete examples? Do you want me to pay for a flight for you to go to a charity ran by Buddhists somewhere where you can see Buddhists feeding flocks of poor and hungry people? Oh yes... sorry... I'm one of those poor people, so I can't afford to do so.

 

The emphasis is on the mental because it's the basis for the body, the body arises from the mental as it's cause on subtler planes. The energy of the body can be manipulated by the state of mind. The physical yogic techniques are all there as well to support the transformation of mind. Also, the mind is what goes as "you" after the body dies, so the state of mind at death is paramount!

 

I don't understand systems that emphasis the body! That makes absolutely no sense when the path is a spiritual path! The body is secondary to mind, not primary... the body will die, the mind will not. The mind wears bodies like clothes, lifetime after lifetime.

 

So bens question revolves around his very little understanding of the mind and is more a revelation of his attachment to body consciousness as a form of spirituality?

 

I really don't think you even read any of the rebuttals with any sense of openness... :lol:

 

WOW!! Yes, there are all sorts of beliefs and the people that follow them and continue to project and learn nothing.

[Vajrahridaya]

Buddhist passive sitting or a Taoist neigong practice? Two totally different things.

But, thanks for posting a tidbit about the healing practices even though I STILL have heard no specific info.

 

I also did years of hatha yoga, then yantra yoga every single day Ya Mu on top of the hours of sitting practice, that was not all passive, much is included, including chanting of mantra which transforms mind and body energy, mudra which transforms mind and body energy and calm internalizing of awareness through the layers of subtle bodies that are behind the physical body.

 

Yes, there is a difference... many of the Taoist practices seem to be centered merely around the physical body and physical energy only.

 

I'm not saying all do... but many seem to be quite epidermic and lack depth. These epidermic or topical practices are important on one level, but do not and will not lead to true insight into the nature of things by themselves and are to be seen merely as a support for deeper mind practice as mind should be the emphasis when it comes to a truly honest spiritual tradition.

 

You have received no specific info. because you didn't read my posted links...

Edited February 7, 2011 by Vajrahridaya

[Ya Mu]

...

Yes, there is a difference... many of the Taoist practices seem to be centered merely around the physical body and physical energy only.

 

I'm not saying all do... but many seem to be quite epidermic and lack depth. These epidermic or topical practices are important on one level, but do not and will not lead to true insight into the nature of things by themselves and are to be seen merely as a support for deeper mind practice as mind should be the emphasis when it comes to a truly honest spiritual tradition.

 

You have received no specific info. because you didn't read my posted links...

For once we agree on something!

I also say the same thing about just physical practices!

 

But still, hatha yoga and all you have mentioned is not at all the same as Taoist neigong. In some ways we say the same thing, but the teachings do deviate.

[Vajrahridaya]

[Vajrahridaya]

For once we agree on something!

I also say the same thing about just physical practices!

 

But still, hatha yoga and all you have mentioned is not at all the same as Taoist neigong. In some ways we say the same thing, but the teachings do deviate.

 

hatha yoga is in my opinion not as deep as buddhist yantra yoga. Of which you'd have to read a book about as it's technique is deeply reaching within.

 

You're right... there are deviations and I find Buddhism to be deeper. This opinion you might suggest is subjective, though I think it's an objective opinion.

 

Just as you would think the opposite. I think you would have to study what I have studied though before you made such an opinion. I am familiar with neigong and I think it's very deep, but not as deep as yantrayoga and vajrayana and it's philosophy and methods in general.

 

Take care!! I do wish you well... as neigong is amazing anyway... I think that's an objective opinion if none of my other ones are.

Edited February 7, 2011 by Vajrahridaya

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

I didn't specifically say anybody concerning exposure to Buddhism... I said, "MAYBE" a lot of you, so no need to react.

 

Also... I've mentioned many times and in many places throughout the years here on TTB that I had committed to 4 to 6 hours of sitting practice for years, sometimes more per day in previous years, including fasting and days of a vow of silence amongst crowds with a pen and paper to write messages for people so that I could stay silent, lived in ashrams at different times for a total of about 4 or a little more years... etc. etc.

 

 

 

So I did. The rest is not rambling to me, so won't be interpreted as rambling as I write it, by me.

 

C'mon, you may have done this in the past, but you have not been doing this since you joined this forum. And even if you did this instead of sleeping, sniping with people on the forum undoes a lot of it.

Edited February 7, 2011 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[Ya Mu]

Ya Mu... you are increasingly exposing yourself as one of the people who are not here to learn anything.

 

I have posted links to reading material, to sites on Kunye massage and the 84 mahasiddhas and a bit of their life stories written about on a site that has plenty of their poetry. I can post sites on various Yoga forms in Buddhism like this one... Yantra Yoga. But you people don't click on these links... ?? Why do you ask if you're not honestly interested in learning??

 

Concrete examples? Do you want me to pay for a flight for you to go to a charity ran by Buddhists somewhere where you can see Buddhists feeding flocks of poor and hungry people? Oh yes... sorry... I'm one of those poor people, so I can't afford to do so.

 

The emphasis is on the mental because it's the basis for the body, the body arises from the mental as it's cause on subtler planes. The energy of the body can be manipulated by the state of mind. The physical yogic techniques are all there as well to support the transformation of mind. Also, the mind is what goes as "you" after the body dies, so the state of mind at death is paramount!

 

I don't understand systems that emphasis the body! That makes absolutely no sense when the path is a spiritual path! The body is secondary to mind, not primary... the body will die, the mind will not. The mind wears bodies like clothes, lifetime after lifetime.

 

So bens question revolves around his very little understanding of the mind and is more a revelation of his attachment to body consciousness as a form of spirituality?

 

I really don't think you even read any of the rebuttals with any sense of openness... :lol:

 

WOW!! Yes, there are all sorts of beliefs and the people that follow them and continue to project and learn nothing.

 

REALLY!

Of COURSE I am not here to learn anything from you! Whatever gave you the idea I was? I had asked you and everyone else hung on the mental concept of DO to give practical explanations and examples because a poster above me had asked the same thing. And then I get all this grief BUT STILL no practical examples.

I have seen most of the yoga forms - they are physical in nature and have nothing whatsoever to do with Taoist neigong, which you seem to be dancing around and not admitting you have never practiced.

"YOU people.." How condescending.

 

Would you like me to pay for a flight for you to go see Christian missionaries who feed the hungry? Well, I certainly am not volunteering it. But they do exist. So what the heck does that have to do with anything? You seem to be a Master of attempting to throw people from what they are talking about with unrelated info.

And no, the mind goes nowhere when we "die", it is a computer which has nothing whatsoever to do with who we really are. You are stuck at the 2nd level. All I have heard is MORE mental masterbation with the exception of "I don't understand systems that emphasis the body! That makes absolutely no sense when the path is a spiritual path!", which I wholly agree with!

[Vajrahridaya]

Buddhist passive sitting or a Taoist neigong practice? Two totally different things.

 

I think you mentally compare your taoist practice with chan/zen practice... maybe?

 

Vajrayana Buddhism or Tantric Buddhism sitting practice is far from passive, though there are passive forms, there are many, many active forms... as mentioned above.

[Vajrahridaya]

REALLY!

Of COURSE I am not here to learn anything from you! Whatever gave you the idea I was? I had asked you and everyone else hung on the mental concept of DO to give practical explanations and examples because a poster above me had asked the same thing. And then I get all this grief BUT STILL no practical examples.

I have seen most of the yoga forms - they are physical in nature and have nothing whatsoever to do with Taoist neigong, which you seem to be dancing around and not admitting you have never practiced.

"YOU people.." How condescending.

 

I did point to practical examples, including readings on various Buddhist Tantric Masters.

 

I doubt that you've been exposed to Vajrayana Buddhist forms of Yoga.

 

Yantra Yoga and Trul Khor is not merely physical in nature... neither is ku nye yoga and massage, as these are also energy forms. So again, yes, you haven't read any of my posts. I'm wasting my time.

 

Would you like me to pay for a flight for you to go see Christian missionaries who feed the hungry? Well, I certainly am not volunteering it. But they do exist. So what the heck does that have to do with anything? You seem to be a Master of attempting to throw people from what they are talking about with unrelated info.

 

I know these exist... the goal of Buddhism is not any of this though... these are all paths that are good, but do not lead to ultimate liberation from samsara. Buddhisms goal is not to feed the hungry, this is just a side effect of good people with food to give in any tradition. I don't know what you are asking. If you want examples of enlightenment in Buddhism... I've dropped links. You are not reading them. So yes, I'm being condescending because you keep asking questions that have been answered.

 

And no, the mind goes nowhere when we "die", it is a computer which has nothing whatsoever to do with who we really are. You are stuck at the 2nd level. All I have heard is MORE mental masterbation with the exception of "I don't understand systems that emphasis the body! That makes absolutely no sense when the path is a spiritual path!", which I wholly agree with!

 

Actually, the word mind means much more in Buddhism than I think you are aware. The mind is not merely thoughts... there are many levels, including the alaya vijnana or storehouse consciousness, there are many mental sheaths or bodies.

 

The same word has different meanings according to different contexts.

 

If you are not interested in learning from someone who knows about this material... then don't bother asking. Please just move on and continue with your practice...

 

I wish you well.

Edited February 7, 2011 by Vajrahridaya

[Vajrahridaya]

C'mon, you may have done this in the past, but you have not been doing this since you joined this forum. And even if you did this instead of sleeping, sniping with people on the forum undoes a lot of it.

 

No it doesn't... you are all a part of my practice. Thanks for testing me, and pushing my buttons, thanks for showing me the depth of compassion that is needed to deal with people of varying capacities and traditions on a mental basis.

 

Thanks so much for all your years of sarcasm and judgement ralis and songs. Thank you!

 

 

Also... I have a tendency for lucid dreaming and practice during my sleep. I also mostly do mantra practice these days, all day into the night, and time to time specific dzogchen practices during different phases of the moon.

[3bob]

Not checking for train wrecks as much because they just keep rewinding and recrashing! (but admitting some residual curiousity at the sight of such)

 

Om

Edited February 7, 2011 by 3bob

[Ya Mu]

I did point to practical examples, including readings on various Buddhist Tantric Masters.

 

I doubt that you've been exposed to Vajrayana Buddhist forms of Yoga.

 

Yantra Yoga and Trul Khor is not merely physical in nature... neither is ku nye yoga and massage, as these are also energy forms. So again, yes, you haven't read any of my posts. I'm wasting my time.

 

 

 

I know these exist... the goal of Buddhism is not any of this though... these are all paths that are good, but do not lead to ultimate liberation from samsara. Buddhisms goal is not to feed the hungry, this is just a side effect of good people with food to give in any tradition. I don't know what you are asking. If you want examples of enlightenment in Buddhism... I've dropped links. You are not reading them. So yes, I'm being condescending because you keep asking questions that have been answered.

 

Actually, the word mind means much more in Buddhism than I think you are aware. The mind is not merely thoughts... there are many levels, including the alaya vijnana or storehouse consciousness, there are many mental sheaths or bodies.

 

The same word has different meanings according to different contexts.

 

If you are not interested in learning from someone who knows about this material... then don't bother asking. Please just move on and continue with your practice...

 

I wish you well.

"Actually, the word mind means much more in Buddhism than I think you are aware...."

And it seems to me that your concepts are purely from the mental realm. And I think you are not aware of the higher ones. At least nothing from your posts suggests this - all is centered on the mental.

 

"So yes, I'm being condescending because you keep asking questions that have been answered."

Nope. I asked in relationship to DO and you started spouting everything but. BTW I know the massage method you refer to and it isn't energy based. Do you know it?

 

VAJ I am not going to keep sparring with you, if that is what this has come to. Your method of presentation is somewhat interesting but I don't have any affinity for it. I think you yourself are probably a good guy.

Good luck to you.

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Then you are the perfect example of my comment above and I knew from the very beginning of your intention.

 

You are not even close to interested in learning... your question was just a fishing ploy. You never really read a single post made here by the Buddhists with honest openness, you haven't learned more than that which solidified your current understanding.

 

Typical sarcastic Songs...

 

So sad.

 

Don't worry... I won't suffer you. I send you blissful compassion though... maybe you'll come around someday.

 

Take care.

 

Where are you reading sarcasm? And enough already with the "sad" putdown...it's your knee-jerk response for anyone you argue with, bub. Don't need your "blissful compassion". You seem to be far from blissful to me.

 

You seem to tangle with everybody here, ralis and I just won't let you push your buddhist bus too far into the crowd, as it is laden with crap. You claim you sit in meditation 4-6 hours a day but it really means you're taking credit for "practice" in your sleep??? OK, I think I've learned what I need from this thread. It was pretty good until you came home from work today and started posting like the energizer bunny. (Can't believe I got sucked in to another Vajra trainwreck)...

Edited February 7, 2011 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[Stigweard]

LOL ... good to see things haven't changed much in my brief absence

[ralis]

The problem with all the esoteric practices that Vajraji promotes is that they are only available to a few. Unless the preliminaries are completed, no one receives the real teachings. Even then it is doubtful.

 

What I question is the sudden availability of thousands of texts. When Tibet fell, only a few texts survived the passage to India. The rest were lost when the Chinese destroyed most monasteries.

[goldisheavy]

The problem with all the esoteric practices that Vajraji promotes is that they are only available to a few. Unless the preliminaries are completed, no one receives the real teachings. Even then it is doubtful.

 

This is indeed a serious problem. I agree.

 

What I question is the sudden availability of thousands of texts. When Tibet fell, only a few texts survived the passage to India. The rest were lost when the Chinese destroyed most monasteries.

 

That's an interesting statement to consider. There may be some truth to it too. I don't think the texts are all that hard to move, especially if each person takes one or two books with them, and even if just 1000 people do this, then you have roughly 1500 texts that have moved over. So it's hard for one person to move an entire library of texts, but if people collaborate and everyone moves a few, then it's not so hard. Second, I think Tibetans still likely rely on memory as much as they rely on the written materials. Even I, who doesn't memorize any text verbatim, I can tell you in a way that's going to be helpful the real meaning and intent of those texts that I've read in the past, since I carry the meaning in my heart and don't really need the text itself.

 

What I'm trying to say here is that authenticity of the text has no value to me. What matters is how the text impacts me, how does it change my thinking and beliefs? Maybe the text is made up. So what? Maybe the authentic texts are junk and the made up ones are the real deal. To me texts like "Illusions: The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah" by Richard Bach are as influential as any "authentic" Tibetan/Indian text.

 

When Tibetans were expelled from Tibet, they had to offer something to the world to survive. Since they have no technical skills, all they have is their culture. So that's what they offer for sale. Of course Tibetans could enter colleges, get degrees, and (try to) get jobs like everyone else in the world, but that's hard work. It's much easier to sit on a fake throne with a pretty hat and collect little envelopes and scarves from people.

Edited February 7, 2011 by goldisheavy

[goldisheavy]

"Actually, the word mind means much more in Buddhism than I think you are aware...."

And it seems to me that your concepts are purely from the mental realm. And I think you are not aware of the higher ones. At least nothing from your posts suggests this - all is centered on the mental.

 

Which realm is higher than the mental realm?

[Gerard]

LOL ... good to see things haven't changed much in my brief absence

 

Sure...the same as me trying to BAN everyone bickering over and over again the same old discussions and unable to do so. When is this karma going to be extinguished?

[Cat Pillar]

To me texts like "Illusions: The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah" by Richard Bach are as influential as any "authentic" Tibetan/Indian text.

 

That book changed my life.

[Vajrahridaya]

"Actually, the word mind means much more in Buddhism than I think you are aware...."

And it seems to me that your concepts are purely from the mental realm. And I think you are not aware of the higher ones. At least nothing from your posts suggests this - all is centered on the mental.

 

Have you been to some of the various heaven realms in meditation? Have you been into formless Samadhis beyond the body? Can you still your mind at will and then hear the chatter in other peoples minds?

 

You have hardly read many of my posts Ya Mu.

 

"So yes, I'm being condescending because you keep asking questions that have been answered."

Nope. I asked in relationship to DO and you started spouting everything but. BTW I know the massage method you refer to and it isn't energy based. Do you know it?

 

Ok, so you claim to know it, but you don't by your statement. There are a few forms of Ku Nye but it's definition is (Wylie: sku mnye), which literally means "massage of the subtle body". Part of the training in Ku Nye requires knowledge of the meridians or lung (winds/prana) channels.

 

Yes, it is energy based through the body. I know practitioners of it and one master of it, ChNNR's (Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoches) sister.

Edited February 7, 2011 by Vajrahridaya