Stress is good?

[Thomsun]

With Tao Te Ching, we can learn to get an careless attitude towards things that normally effects our emotions negatively, reducing stress/anxiety/anger. But it is exactly these emotions that motivate us to achieve "good" and "better" things. This careless/acceptance attitude does bring alot of peace and contentment in your life, making the world your home. But how to get motivated then?

 

When stress has been your main motivation for a lifetime, how become motivated while in peace? Without motivation I feel like I cannot achieve anything. Infact, trying to achieve and trying to care again the stress creeps back in again.

 

This is very paradoxical to me and I don't think I can solve this problem on my own. Hope to get some feedback here.

[devoid]

Hi Thomsun,

 

Good question.

 

Out of wu wei, a spark of yang bears the yin and the taiji. The one becomes two and the two becomes three out of which all things can be. This is part of the tao.

 

In other words, some almost magical impulse (e.g. inspiration) stirs in the great void and suddenly many things abound (e.g. motivation).

 

I wish you happy pondering

[Astral_Anima]

With Tao Te Ching, we can learn to get an careless attitude towards things that normally effects our emotions negatively, reducing stress/anxiety/anger. But it is exactly these emotions that motivate us to achieve "good" and "better" things. This careless/acceptance attitude does bring alot of peace and contentment in your life, making the world your home. But how to get motivated then?

 

When stress has been your main motivation for a lifetime, how become motivated while in peace? Without motivation I feel like I cannot achieve anything. Infact, trying to achieve and trying to care again the stress creeps back in again.

 

This is very paradoxical to me and I don't think I can solve this problem on my own. Hope to get some feedback here.

 

Stress, anger, discontentment...these things lead to change, they are tools for change. They come about when things need to change. They should be indicators that something needs change. But I believe most of us seek the state of static bliss and enjoyment. Therefore we "fight for peace".

 

What you're describing is a form of "running away". The point isn't to become apathetic, thats one of the 8 harmful emotions or 7 deadly sins. Apathy leads to stagnation and laziness. one should not run away from negative emotions or pretend they don't care about them, they should embrace them wholeheartedly and use them as motivators to understand and not repeat what caused them.

 

This state of carelessness is what's being pushed by the "New Age"rs and authoritarians. Obviously careless people are much easier to push around and control then those who care about themselves and others. Watching careless as you family is killed in front of you isn't exactly the imagery that comes to mind when thinking of an "enlightened sage". Even Christ and Buddha shed tears. But so many only wish to follow, they want someone else to tell them how to live, to tell them what they want, what to think/believe, what's possible. We all want the easy way out...

 

-Astral

 

Edit: Do you think sadness is negativity? wrath hurts others, greed hurts others, gluttony hurts others...but what of sadness? I know that I will never be free of sadness as long as people suffer so, and I don't want to even not feel sad because then I wouldn't have motivation to change it. I won't be free from anger as long as such injustice exists. My anger motivates me to change it. These negative emotions are responses we have to these situations. I believe it tells us that they are inharmonious. Should emotions be sought to be dimmed if they are indicators? tools of discernment?

Edited February 6, 2011 by Astral_Anima

[Thomsun]

Hi Thomsun,

 

Good question.

 

Out of wu wei, a spark of yang bears the yin and the taiji. The one becomes two and the two becomes three out of which all things can be. This is part of the tao.

 

In other words, some almost magical impulse (e.g. inspiration) stirs in the great void and suddenly many things abound (e.g. motivation).

 

I wish you happy pondering

Hi to you aswell.

 

Magical words you got there. What does it mean?

 

I must find the void of certain actions to be inspired for it and then motivated for it and the rest will follow? How do I do that?

Lets say I have a study, and my logical mind fights my conflicting emotions, trying to complete the studies, while my emotions feel repulsion from doing these things. I need a motivation that does not cause stress/anxiety/sadness/anger.

 

thanks.

Edited February 6, 2011 by Thomsun

[Thomsun]

Stress, anger, discontentment...these things lead to change, they are tools for change. They come about when things need to change. They should be indicators that something needs change. But I believe most of us seek the state of static bliss and enjoyment. Therefore we "fight for peace".

 

What you're describing is a form of "running away". The point isn't to become apathetic, thats one of the 8 harmful emotions or 7 deadly sins. Apathy leads to stagnation and laziness. one should not run away from negative emotions or pretend they don't care about them, they should embrace them wholeheartedly and use them as motivators to understand and not repeat what caused them.

 

This state of carelessness is what's being pushed by the "New Age"rs and authoritarians. Obviously careless people are much easier to push around and control then those who care about themselves and others. Watching careless as you family is killed in front of you isn't exactly the imagery that comes to mind when thinking of an "enlightened sage". Even Christ and Buddha shed tears. But so many only wish to follow, they want someone else to tell them how to live, to tell them what they want, what to think/believe, what's possible. We all want the easy way out...

 

-Astral

 

Edit: Do you think sadness is negativity? wrath hurts others, greed hurts others, gluttony hurts others...but what of sadness? I know that I will never be free of sadness as long as people suffer so, and I don't want to even not feel sad because then I wouldn't have motivation to change it. I won't be free from anger as long as such injustice exists. My anger motivates me to change it. These negative emotions are responses we have to these situations. I believe it tells us that they are inharmonious. Should emotions be sought to be dimmed if they are indicators? tools of discernment?

Yeah, but what if these stresses and negative emotions like sadness/anger/anxiety is coming from within? For example a fear "schedules." It is completely irrational to the mind but somehow this emotion keeps winning over your willpower. Willpower is useless in these kind of situations. Without the emotional mechanics backing you up, how can you fight the hard way? How can we experience every irrational negative emotion to its fullest when it drains us, how can we use the negative emotions as motivation for change?

 

How do you cope with irrational fears, like fear of airplanes. I would either run away from my fear, or stay aware and completely accept my fear untill it is gone and I no longer care about it. Then I feel less motivated to run away from the airplane, the only thing left is outside impulses sending me inside the aircraft for me to fly to the destination. But I don't get a "desire" to fly when I get rid of the "fear" of flight. Thats the main problem. I require the desire aswell to change my life. This is just an example, but I hope you know how it translates into other stuff.

 

You saying we go against the emotions but still feel it? I don't get it.

Edited February 6, 2011 by Thomsun

[Astral_Anima]

Yeah, but what if these stresses and negative emotions like sadness/anger/anxiety is coming from within? For example a fear "schedules." It is completely irrational to the mind but somehow this emotion keeps winning over your willpower. Willpower is useless in these kind of situations. Without the emotional mechanics backing you up, how can you fight the hard way? How can we experience every irrational negative emotion to its fullest when it drains us, how can we use the negative emotions as motivation for change?

 

How do you cope with irrational fears, like fear of airplanes. I would either run away from my fear, or stay aware and completely accept my fear untill it is gone and I no longer care about it. Then I feel less motivated to run away from the airplane, the only thing left is outside impulses sending me inside the aircraft for me to fly to the destination. But I don't get a "desire" to fly when I get rid of the "fear" of flight. Thats the main problem. I require the desire aswell to change my life. This is just an example, but I hope you know how it translates into other stuff.

 

You saying we go against the emotions but still feel it? I don't get it.

 

The point, from my perspective is to feel it fully in order to understand it, bring awareness to it. Feel emotion, don't be run my it, it's just a feedback system.

 

Bring awareness and seek to understand the nature of your fear, then prove it wrong and reprogram it. For you airplane example...something would have obviously caused you to fear airplanes. Now if you block out that fear then you won't be able to understand where it comes from. Experience it while questioning and observing. Ask yourself why you're scared, what you fear will happen. Once you find that out you prove your fear wrong by riding the plane and proving that nothing went wrong.

 

I used to be scared of Pennywise the clown from Steven King's "IT" when I was younger. No matter how much everyone convinced me it was real I was still scared. Eventually I began to get angry at my fear and I began to ridicule it and question it. I would ponder, "Well if "IT" existed, then wouldn't it have killed me by now or at least appeared?" "What's taking ti so long?" which eventually led to "Well even if it DID exist and attack...what could i do? If it wants to kill me then it's going to kill me so there's no point worrying about it since I have no control of it". When I posed that theorem to my brain, that if IT had existed then it would've attacked by now, that idea gained power every morning I woke up perfectly fine until eventually I began to believe myself and the fear went away.

 

I had an experience with a girl I liked and she was telling me about her sexual experiences with her new fuck-buddy and I got REALLY jealous and while I was jealous I would investigate this feeling and ask "why". I finally got to the answer it's because I wanted her all to myself, and I would explain to myself the fallacy in my emotional logic. I would first thank my unconscious for doing it's job and trying to "get back" what I originally found valuable, however I explained to my unconscious that there were more important things and began to shift my focus to my spiritual development and discussed all of the emotionally charged reasons I practice.

 

I suggest you go to thunderwizard.com go to the podcasts and listen to the one on "The Lay of Allwise", it's INCREDIBLY insightful on the unconscious mind and how it works. Basically you can't tell it it's doing things "Wrong" because actually it's doing things right, it's trying to protect you based on how you've programmed it. But like a computer, your brain does what you TELL it to do not what you WANT it to do. So for my jealousy example, if I had said "this feeling is stupid, i shouldn't feel this, yada yada yada", it won't work. What you have to do is replace it with something of higher value and let it fall out of the limelight of you thoughts. Then it'll become the 'nothing' it is. You have to realize what's going on, acknowledge your unconscious and thank it for doing its job but give it new orders and explain how/why these new orders will bring more satisfaction and enjoyment.

 

So yes we feel the emotion in order to understand it, then we correct our understanding of it which is how we go against it. This is what works for me and as always the above is all my opinions based on my observations and experiences.

 

Best of Luck,

-Astral

[Everything]

Bring awareness and seek to understand the nature of your fear, then prove it wrong and reprogram it.

Awesome

Edited February 6, 2011 by Everything

[Thomsun]

The point, from my perspective is to feel it fully in order to understand it, bring awareness to it. Feel emotion, don't be run my it, it's just a feedback system.

 

Bring awareness and seek to understand the nature of your fear, then prove it wrong and reprogram it. For you airplane example...something would have obviously caused you to fear airplanes. Now if you block out that fear then you won't be able to understand where it comes from. Experience it while questioning and observing. Ask yourself why you're scared, what you fear will happen. Once you find that out you prove your fear wrong by riding the plane and proving that nothing went wrong.

 

I used to be scared of Pennywise the clown from Steven King's "IT" when I was younger. No matter how much everyone convinced me it was real I was still scared. Eventually I began to get angry at my fear and I began to ridicule it and question it. I would ponder, "Well if "IT" existed, then wouldn't it have killed me by now or at least appeared?" "What's taking ti so long?" which eventually led to "Well even if it DID exist and attack...what could i do? If it wants to kill me then it's going to kill me so there's no point worrying about it since I have no control of it". When I posed that theorem to my brain, that if IT had existed then it would've attacked by now, that idea gained power every morning I woke up perfectly fine until eventually I began to believe myself and the fear went away.

 

I had an experience with a girl I liked and she was telling me about her sexual experiences with her new fuck-buddy and I got REALLY jealous and while I was jealous I would investigate this feeling and ask "why". I finally got to the answer it's because I wanted her all to myself, and I would explain to myself the fallacy in my emotional logic. I would first thank my unconscious for doing it's job and trying to "get back" what I originally found valuable, however I explained to my unconscious that there were more important things and began to shift my focus to my spiritual development and discussed all of the emotionally charged reasons I practice.

 

I suggest you go to thunderwizard.com go to the podcasts and listen to the one on "The Lay of Allwise", it's INCREDIBLY insightful on the unconscious mind and how it works. Basically you can't tell it it's doing things "Wrong" because actually it's doing things right, it's trying to protect you based on how you've programmed it. But like a computer, your brain does what you TELL it to do not what you WANT it to do. So for my jealousy example, if I had said "this feeling is stupid, i shouldn't feel this, yada yada yada", it won't work. What you have to do is replace it with something of higher value and let it fall out of the limelight of you thoughts. Then it'll become the 'nothing' it is. You have to realize what's going on, acknowledge your unconscious and thank it for doing its job but give it new orders and explain how/why these new orders will bring more satisfaction and enjoyment.

 

So yes we feel the emotion in order to understand it, then we correct our understanding of it which is how we go against it. This is what works for me and as always the above is all my opinions based on my observations and experiences.

 

Best of Luck,

-Astral

That sounds so obvious, perhaps thats why I overlooked it for so long. Alot of stuff on the internet give us wrong information about how the unconscious mind works to try and sell you material. Your perspective realy helped me to open my eyes regarding my own behaviour when it comes to changing the unconscious

 

Thanks, Astral. Thanks...

[devoid]

Hi to you aswell.

 

Magical words you got there. What does it mean?

 

I must find the void of certain actions to be inspired for it and then motivated for it and the rest will follow? How do I do that?

Lets say I have a study, and my logical mind fights my conflicting emotions, trying to complete the studies, while my emotions feel repulsion from doing these things. I need a motivation that does not cause stress/anxiety/sadness/anger.

 

thanks.

 

Hi Thomsun,

 

The magical words mean that once you have stilled your mind, new thoughts and inspiration will suddenly appear and begin to flourish.

 

How to still the mind? Keep trying, and trying, and trying, and trying, and trying, and then trying again. Give it a rest in between - don't overdo it in one go, but try to make a practice out of it.

 

Once you are able to sit and stare into thin air without a thought appearing that you cannot tame or let go, you have started finding out how to do this.

 

Once you have stilled your mind, put a content smile on your face and let it fill you with you a warm fussy feeling. This is where you will suddenly one day be able to see motivation without any form of stress (it will take time).

 

I know it probably sounds a bit crazy from where you're looking at it right now, but if you try this sincerely for 10-15 minutes per day, I'll bet you that by end of spring you'll know what I am talking about.

 

If this speaks to you and you decide to give it a go, feel free to PM me questions along the way if you feel you need any assistance.

[Sloppy Zhang]

I look at people who are really good at something, like artists.

 

The artists I've known, the ones who were REALLY good, pretty much geniuses, did art ALL. THE. TIME.

 

You give them two minutes of free time to kill? Boom, they just sketched themselves sitting there sketching themselves.

 

Though it's considered a very hard profession to get into, I've known people who were able to take off right away, getting lots of high quality art out to a lot of people and making a relatively good living.

 

To an outside observer, they are living a high stress life in which they must do art all the time to meet the needs of clients and the deadline. While this is true to a certain extent, from the perspective of the artist, they are just doing what they are doing.

 

What would be inhuman effort to someone else is, for them, quite natural.

 

So when you've found that thing that you do, when you have found YOU, and are YOU 24/7, then, well, it's not "stress" to you, but it may be to someone else. Now for some people finding "you" is easy, for others, well, that's quite the ordeal!

[Otis]

I think you're getting stellar feedback, Thomsun.

 

Just a little addition. You wrote:

With Tao Te Ching, we can learn to get an careless attitude towards things that normally effects our emotions negatively, reducing stress/anxiety/anger. But it is exactly these emotions that motivate us to achieve "good" and "better" things. This careless/acceptance attitude does bring alot of peace and contentment in your life, making the world your home. But how to get motivated then?

I think it's worthwhile drawing a bright line about one of your words: careless.

 

Learning to accept emotions is not the same as being careless about them. It is not "f*** it".

 

Instead, emotions are easier to accept as I care MORE. Not "care" as in "get bothered over". But care as in: caring for a new baby.

 

Care is the acknowledgment that: this life is worthwhile slowing down for, paying attention to, being patient with. Care with my behavior is using no more force than necessary, listening to the feedback of reality, being willing to put process over product, and learning over being right. Care is treating other human beings, nature and myself with kindness and gentleness.

 

I have found that my inspiration has grown immensely, as I care more about my life. In particular, since growth and change is what excites me so much, I've found that learning and trying new things are more fun than they've ever been. These leads me in a variety of new directions, none of which are either wrong or right. They're just more of this potential we call the world.

Edited February 9, 2011 by Otis

[Red Pheonix]

With Tao Te Ching, we can learn to get an careless attitude towards things that normally effects our emotions negatively, reducing stress/anxiety/anger. But it is exactly these emotions that motivate us to achieve "good" and "better" things. This careless/acceptance attitude does bring alot of peace and contentment in your life, making the world your home. But how to get motivated then?

 

When stress has been your main motivation for a lifetime, how become motivated while in peace? Without motivation I feel like I cannot achieve anything. Infact, trying to achieve and trying to care again the stress creeps back in again.

 

This is very paradoxical to me and I don't think I can solve this problem on my own. Hope to get some feedback here.

 

I think a distinction should be made between stress and pressure. Stress is a bad reaction to pressure. Perspective is what determines our reaction. Humans are reactionary creatures and while we cannot change that, we can change how we see a thing and hence our reaction to it.

 

A practical example is training mustangs (wild horses). I use the smallest amount of pressure required to get the horse to do what I need. If I use too much pressure I will stress the horse out and it will no longer be able to get the results I need because the horse is not able to process my input in the same way.

 

Pressure is good for motivation, but stress is a bad reaction to that pressure. It IS good to get to a place where things do not stress you. If you are connected to the Tao and have no concern for even your own physical life, you can handle all of the pressures without being stressed.

[cicida]

Thank you Otis, I love the above way that you put it. It is nice to try new things and having new adventures. It takes courage to make the change too. Reminds me that if one gets lost...one meets a new route. 'New directions' like what you said.

 

Cheers

 

cicida

Edited February 10, 2011 by cicida

[Thomsun]

Hi Thomsun,

 

The magical words mean that once you have stilled your mind, new thoughts and inspiration will suddenly appear and begin to flourish.

 

How to still the mind? Keep trying, and trying, and trying, and trying, and trying, and then trying again. Give it a rest in between - don't overdo it in one go, but try to make a practice out of it.

 

Once you are able to sit and stare into thin air without a thought appearing that you cannot tame or let go, you have started finding out how to do this.

 

Once you have stilled your mind, put a content smile on your face and let it fill you with you a warm fussy feeling. This is where you will suddenly one day be able to see motivation without any form of stress (it will take time).

 

I know it probably sounds a bit crazy from where you're looking at it right now, but if you try this sincerely for 10-15 minutes per day, I'll bet you that by end of spring you'll know what I am talking about.

 

If this speaks to you and you decide to give it a go, feel free to PM me questions along the way if you feel you need any assistance.

Some deep posts, thanks.

 

@Devoid, I find this to be true for inspiration. When I require succes. But this I've been practicing since I was a little kid. I always won art contests and have had great successes in my studies. But this entire part of my life that I wish to continue are based on stressed and motivated by those emotions.

 

My main problem now is finding motivation for this life without relying on stress. Without feeling stress when pressure is applied. I require to find motivation.

 

Astral anima gave me a link to a podcast of some norse mythology or something. The lay of the allwise. My inner dwarf, my subconscious, does not see the benefit of focusing on science and studying. I find it hard to wake up at morning when I have to run a couple of miles, because I'm not motivated to do so. I don't feel the benefits, I just see them as a destiny I have. Things are always easier said then done in my life. I become lazy because of this excessive intellect and no body and soul connection.

 

How do I find motivation to do the things I do, without seeking stress. How do I convince my inner dwarfs to work for me and not against me? I tried convincing them that studying is good, fun, amazing, but it doesn't work. When I had stress, saving my self out of tight situation was the only reward and motvation for my dwarfs. Survival based living. Seeking boundaries, finding alot of pressure and stressing alot, leaving all the work till the last moment. Working 24/7. I loved what I did everything easily because my dwarfs were backing me up. Now that I've had an reality check, I cannot feel the same stress to those pressures anymore and I lost motivation for everything.

 

I can't just affirm believes so that my subconscious mind changes, clearing my mind doesn't motivate me either. Even with a clear mind, complete focus on my work, I eventually feel drained everytime I do something. As if my inner dwarfs are sabotaging me. Perhaps I'll PM Astral Anima to see if knows more about that link he gave me. It just explains how the subconscious is your dwarf, not how to change its directions.

 

Its like you're here to safe the entire world and you're like "meh... I'm gonna take a nap now." Thats why stress seems good if you want to get to a certain destiny and not care about the path.

Edited February 10, 2011 by Thomsun

[Sloppy Zhang]

Some deep posts, thanks.

 

@Devoid, I find this to be true for inspiration. When I require succes. But this I've been practicing since I was a little kid. I always won art contests and have had great successes in my studies. But this entire part of my life that I wish to continue are based on stressed and motivated by those emotions.

 

My main problem now is finding motivation for this life without relying on stress. Without feeling stress when pressure is applied. I require to find motivation.

 

Astral anima gave me a link to a podcast of some norse mythology or something. The lay of the allwise. My inner dwarf, my subconscious, does not see the benefit of focusing on science and studying. I find it hard to wake up at morning when I have to run a couple of miles, because I'm not motivated to do so. I don't feel the benefits, I just see them as a destiny I have. Things are always easier said then done in my life. I become lazy because of this excessive intellect and no body and soul connection.

 

How do I find motivation to do the things I do, without seeking stress. How do I convince my inner dwarfs to work for me and not against me? I tried convincing them that studying is good, fun, amazing, but it doesn't work. When I had stress, saving my self out of tight situation was the only reward and motvation for my dwarfs. Survival based living. Seeking boundaries, finding alot of pressure and stressing alot, leaving all the work till the last moment. Working 24/7. I loved what I did everything easily because my dwarfs were backing me up. Now that I've had an reality check, I cannot feel the same stress to those pressures anymore and I lost motivation for everything.

 

I can't just affirm believes so that my subconscious mind changes, clearing my mind doesn't motivate me either. Even with a clear mind, complete focus on my work, I eventually feel drained everytime I do something. As if my inner dwarfs are sabotaging me. Perhaps I'll PM Astral Anima to see if knows more about that link he gave me. It just explains how the subconscious is your dwarf, not how to change its directions.

 

Its like you're here to safe the entire world and you're like "meh... I'm gonna take a nap now." Thats why stress seems good if you want to get to a certain destiny and not care about the path.

 

Well don't take this the wrong way, or use this as an excuse to wreck your life, but maybe the reason you can't find any internal motivation, why you can't get the dwarves to do what you want them to do, is because what you want them to do isn't what you really want to do/should be doing, and what "you want to do" is really what you think you "should" do based on what you've been told by society, parents, friends, superiors, and even yourself.

 

Look back up on my post, the people I've seen that I consider to be true "geniuses" didn't have to convince their internal dwarves to do anything- the internal dwarves were always at work, were always rearing to go. The geniuses that I've known have more problems STOPPING than they do starting.

 

They have the kind of mindset where they're hard and work and go, "okay, lunch time." then don't stop what they're doing for two and a half hours. Then they finally stop, make themselves a sandwich, and it sits there uneaten for another two hours as they do more work.

 

Maybe you aren't where you want to be and you aren't doing what you want to do. It's a competitive job market, so working/studying is important, but there still manage to be successful college dropouts in relatively recent years. They didn't stop going to school because they couldn't hack it, they stopped going because rather than helping them, their academic career was getting in the way of their busy internal dwarves- so they cut the crap and did what they wanted to full time, and became quite successful.

 

Of course, this kind of passion is natural. It's something that arises on its own. Sufficed to say, if you have to question it, then it probably isn't the type of passion that I'd recommend dropping out of college (or any type of education or place of current employment) for.

[Everything]

oops, how do I delete a post?

 

Well... Uhm... Now that you're reading anyways, I shall refer to: [What Sloppy Zhang said]... xD Awesome

Edited February 11, 2011 by Everything

[Everything]

[Delete post]

 

Small accident with the mouse

Edited February 11, 2011 by Everything

[Otis]

How do I convince my inner dwarfs to work for me and not against me? I tried convincing them that studying is good, fun, amazing, but it doesn't work.

Just wanted to back up what Sloppy Zhang wrote.

 

In my case, I've decided that the dwarves are actually wiser than I am, so my practice is in letting them run the show. I've found out that they're interested in things I never considered. And the motivation to do those comes very easily. It's a more fun life, when I'm not trying to tell the dwarves how to do their job.

[Thomsun]

Just wanted to back up what Sloppy Zhang wrote.

 

In my case, I've decided that the dwarves are actually wiser than I am, so my practice is in letting them run the show. I've found out that they're interested in things I never considered. And the motivation to do those comes very easily. It's a more fun life, when I'm not trying to tell the dwarves how to do their job.

Well, sloppy zhang put some wise words in there. Stress is not a good motivator, passion is... Unfortunately it will not allow me to change these "dwarfs" or innerbelieves whatever it is that is standing in my way. I do not know how to change these passions for the better. You both advise to let the dwarfs run the show, not to change them. Should we let them run the show even for worse? Like becoming a "bum" ?

 

Do you think it is impossible to change my inner believes/subconscious/dwarfs to point them into the right direction and then have them run the show? If it is possible then why should we not try and change it for better? Or how should we change it if you think we should.

 

I'm going way out there with the following example, don't take it serious. Let us say that some psycho murderer is out there enjoying the killing of children in cruel ways, he wants to not like it but he simply does and he cannot resist the urge to do so. Because he is so passionate when he kills children. Then you say to him, "meh, just follow your inner dwarfs. This is something they enjoy, let them run the show." Now things would get ineresting right? Because the inner dwarfs are strongly in conflict with the conscious and rational mind. The emotional mechanics that come into play here are motivators for such cruel behaviour, and these are subconscious. Surely you can learn to consciously deal with it, but where does that leave you? Still passionate about the same thing, it does not change the passion from a cruel thing to a constructive thing. It does not redirect the dwarfs.

 

The other thing is when someone actually feels passionate about something good and then he looses that passion to be replaced by something bad, then he wishes to feel passionate about the good thing again and cannot succeed to find the passion/motivation. Loosing one genius.

 

These things totally make me curious, so I'm looking forward to reading the replies

Edited February 11, 2011 by Thomsun

[Sloppy Zhang]

Well, sloppy zhang put some wise words in there. Stress is not a good motivator, passion is... Unfortunately it will not allow me to change these "dwarfs" or innerbelieves whatever it is that is standing in my way. I do not know how to change these passions for the better. You both advise to let the dwarfs run the show, not to change them. Should we let them run the show even for worse? Like becoming a "bum" ?

 

Do you think it is impossible to change my inner believes/subconscious/dwarfs to point them into the right direction and then have them run the show? If it is possible then why should we not try and change it for better? Or how should we change it if you think we should.

 

I'm a college student in a liberal arts school. As part of my "liberal arts" education, I have to take a bunch of classes and jump through a bunch of hoops by taking classes and programs that I have no interest in, and which are frankly quite stupid, just so I can graduate with the degree and get into programs which I AM interested in, so this issue is at the forefront of my life, and I have come to understand many of the motivations that people like Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg must have had when they "dropped out" (perhaps instead of saying "dropping out" of college, we should say "stepping up" into a world changing career).

 

I've been at this school thing for a while- just to get into a good college these days you have to jump through so many hoops, and then to go from college to good internship, more hoops, from internship to job, more hoops- so I've lost motivation. At one point I thought, "I really am a bum".

 

But that's looking at it from the perspective of people who want you to act a certain way. Just because you do not have motivation for something that doesn't get you going doesn't make you a bum. But if you're in a college atmosphere and you don't have the motivation for college, other people will think you're a bum. I know plenty of people here to study medicine, business, chemistry, etc. They have equated working hard in class with being successful. Someone who doesn't work hard in class to get the grades, someone who doesn't go to all the right clubs and do all the right internships is a bum.

 

But that doesn't necessarily mean that you should change your inner passions/dwarves/motivations/whatever into doing stuff you don't want to do! Not only will you most likely fail, you'll do it much more poorly than someone who's actually there because they WANT to be there, you won't succeed, you'll probably revert back, and not only will you be in the same place, you'll be depressed and sad that you've failed and are back to square one- all the while having no idea for the reason why you failed!

 

Which is why I think that introspection and really finding who you are is REALLY important- not just to being all happy and healthy (which are important), but tangibly in getting money and having a successful career. Someone who becomes a musician just because they want to have an excuse to get high and bang some groupies is never going to be as successful as someone who is in it for the music, to really share their passion for music, and in the process get a lot of weed and groupies. Perhaps the reason so many people fail in careers which sound successful, or succeed in ones that don't sound successful, is because some people have a passion and drive that makes them accomplish things effortlessly and naturally (wu wei?) while others struggle against the grain just to get to the starting point!

 

So, again: Don't try and change your passion/dwarves/whatever! I don't see good things happening.

 

Instead, find out what the source of your passion is, where it comes from, and what it's going towards. This will involve some detachment and non-judgment. Because if you start thinking, "well that will just lead me to be a bum" or "I won't get a career in that" or "I won't have many friends if I do that" then you're already getting off track.

 

I'm going way out there with the following example, don't take it serious. Let us say that some psycho murderer is out there enjoying the killing of children in cruel ways, he wants to not like it but he simply does and he cannot resist the urge to do so. Because he is so passionate when he kills children. Then you say to him, "meh, just follow your inner dwarfs. This is something they enjoy, let them run the show." Now things would get ineresting right? Because the inner dwarfs are strongly in conflict with the conscious and rational mind. The emotional mechanics that come into play here are motivators for such cruel behaviour, and these are subconscious. Surely you can learn to consciously deal with it, but where does that leave you? Still passionate about the same thing, it does not change the passion from a cruel thing to a constructive thing. It does not redirect the dwarfs.

 

Well that's a bit of extreme example. It's really a conversation onto itself (and I'm sure one that's probably been had on this forum, I don't recall because I generally don't participate in these things). Basically, we live in a society in which just killing people is not okay. Now maybe killing people is inherently unnatural or maybe we're all just naturally psychopaths, I don't know, but rather than looking at the surface (in this example, "killing children"), you should go deeper and find the motivating factor, where does this passion come from? What about it do you like?

 

Don't look at the thing, look at the things behind the thing. Find other things you can do which share the same motivating forces behind the thing.

 

The other thing is when someone actually feels passionate about something good and then he looses that passion to be replaced by something bad, then he wishes to feel passionate about the good thing again and cannot succeed to find the passion/motivation. Loosing one genius.

 

That's why it's important to find the motivating factor behind the thing, and not just look at the thing itself. If you don't, then you just jump from one thing to another to another and though you say you're "following your passions" you are really just sabotaging yourself at each step.

[Thomsun]

That's why it's important to find the motivating factor behind the thing, and not just look at the thing itself. If you don't, then you just jump from one thing to another to another and though you say you're "following your passions" you are really just sabotaging yourself at each step.

Man, I love this topic. Another big post

 

So, you're saying that the core of passions/innerbelieves/dwarfs/subconscious/whatever always stay the same and that the expressions of your passion can be changed? That is a very innovative idea. But I don't think that we have a core passion that is unchangable.

 

The only passions that we will always find motivation for and is unchangable is survival&love/sex. The will to survive and to reproduce and that we all express this core purpose in diffrent ways

 

But lets say that every one of us does have a soul purpose in this life that is beyond reproduction/survival. How on earth would we find what our core purpose is? It would make life so much easier to sum it up all in one sentence. Perhaps we should have faith in a temporary purpose and have it change over time? Someone once told me that looking at a picture or movie of yourself when you are a baby is enlightening for finding this core purpose.

Edited February 11, 2011 by Thomsun

[Sloppy Zhang]

So, you're saying that the core of passions/innerbelieves/dwarfs/subconscious/whatever always stay the same and that the expressions of your passion can be changed? That is a very innovative idea. But I don't think that we have a core passion that is unchangable.

 

Well, I think there are a lot of different levels and manifestations of it. You can get all metaphysical and say, "well it's all inherently empty, you have to discard everything that you identify with because it's not really you" and whatever, and I guess that's all well and good.

 

But if you're living in the modern world, then you've got experiences (like school), you have responsibilities (like work), you have connections (friends and families). Though you may be think/believe that these things aren't really you, you interact with them in some capacity on a daily basis (unless you're already enlightened, perhaps).

 

So in that sense, it makes more sense to work WITH the forces going on in your life, rather than against. If you feel you must change something, adjust it slowly, I would say (unless you've just got that mega willpower gung ho attitude and have the willpower necessary to follow through).

 

The only passions that we will always find motivation for and is unchangable is survival&love/sex. The will to survive and to reproduce and that we all express this core purpose in diffrent ways

 

So then find something that embodies those desires, and you won't have any problems finding passion in doing something. Your little internal dwarves will be hard at work already.

 

But lets say that every one of us does have a soul purpose in this life that is beyond reproduction/survival. How on earth would we find what our core purpose is?

 

Serious introspection. Being able to look at yourself honestly.

 

Perhaps we should have faith in a temporary purpose and have it change over time?

 

All right, sounds good in theory, but that is no guarantee it will solve the problem you've put forward in this thread: how do you find motivation for something you don't like? If the little dwarves aren't working for something, even if you want to put faith in a temporary purpose, it aint gonna happen.

 

Someone once told me that looking at a picture or movie of yourself when you are a baby is enlightening for finding this core purpose.

 

If you think it might work, give it a shot.

Edited February 11, 2011 by Sloppy Zhang

[Everything]

Sounds fair... Here are my thoughts on this.

 

I believe that your subconscious mind CAN be changed, because I've done it my self personally. It does "seem" to require extreme effort, it does "seem" to be a slow process aswell. The quickest path is also the most difficult. A great focus and awareness of the desired reality and a determined intention/desire of getting there is required... Simply believing with your entire being in something will make it a reality, eventually, if you can believe with great focus.

 

Easier said then done, yes. I lasted for 2 months with a complete 100% faith in a better reality. Great times, to be remembered as one of the best moments of my life. Thats the quick way to make your self believe something and have it become reality very quickly. Unfortunately, such quick/big changes can only last in Las Vegas, lol. You simply cannot believe in something that is not true without having alot of conflict with the outer world + alot of pressure on your dwarfs to work a 110%(interesting link from astral anima). You will find that your believes are challenged every day, alot, if they are so far from reality or past experiences. These conflicts will motivate for great changes in your life but it is exhausting if done too hastily. So taking it slow, by making small changes, improving your believes that way will have your dwarfs working in regular pase, which is more then powerful enough.

 

To believe in something you must first have a clear picture in your head of that reality. For example, lets take an alcoholic. He will try to change his passions of alcohol to: "I hate alcohol." It will never work, because he has never experienced such a notion with his entire body and mind. It will never become a reality. His subconscious mind will have nothing to latch on to and the believe will dissolve like any other thought or idea into the nothingness it came from. While if the alcoholic would go and believe "I am a healthy person" it would feel conflicting to drink alcohol, not wake up early to go jogging and taking cold showers, not to eat a healthy meal. Suddenly, the believe becomes a reality, because the idea of "a healthy person" is more familiar to the subconscious mind. Perhaps thats where the struggle lies for people who are not certain what to believe in order to change their life for the better.

In those regards, yes, we must take small steps towards changing and take it slow. Sure it requires great awareness to focus on the new believe baking it into your brain 100% of the time while it is still raw. Eventually the destined change will arrive, like the example of the alcoholic. The more subtle believe of "I am a healthy person" will lead to "I hate alcohol."

 

The same struggles can be found in lucid dreamers who are trying to control the realities within their dream. It's called dream control.

They take huge steps, like the following example: A dreamer is falling from a tall building and feels like he is about die and fall down, there is nothing he can do. He knows it is a dream, so the fear is lost. The time to practice dream control has come. The dreamer tries to believe that he can fly(huge step). He tries with all his might, flapping his arms but nothing happens. His subconscious mind has never experienced this kind of flight and thus cannot create such a reality for the dreamer.

So he learns to be more subtle and flexible in changing his reality or more specific his perception of the reality. He remembers that he has experienced a parachute on one of his vacations in the past. This is certainly fimiliar to him. He believes that if he pulls an imaginary cord a parachute will open and slow his body down, and so it does. Suddenly there is a parachute, but he cannot steer that well. The parachute is flying him towards the building he dropped from...

One scenario follows: he panics and in haste tries to believe that he can go trough the window of the building(huge step), not a familiar experience, he smashes against the window and falls down, wakes up... The other scenario, you can stay calm and find a more subtle and felxible change in believe like "the window is open" a more familiar experience, and you go right trough it just to find yourself in your own appartment with your girlfriend in the house. Mission accomplished... The parachute pulls you back outside again. Lol

Lucid dream practice is great. If you can find the lucidity that is...

Edited February 12, 2011 by Everything

[devoid]

[...]

How do I find motivation to do the things I do, without seeking stress. How do I convince my inner dwarfs to work for me and not against me? I tried convincing them that studying is good, fun, amazing, but it doesn't work. When I had stress, saving my self out of tight situation was the only reward and motvation for my dwarfs. Survival based living. Seeking boundaries, finding alot of pressure and stressing alot, leaving all the work till the last moment. Working 24/7. I loved what I did everything easily because my dwarfs were backing me up. Now that I've had an reality check, I cannot feel the same stress to those pressures anymore and I lost motivation for everything.

[...]

 

ahhh - I believe what you describe here has nothing to do with inner dwarfs and higher self, rather it is the inner demon that shouts louder than the ones who cry: pull yourself together and get on with it!

 

In other words, I don't think you actually need help with identifying the source of motivation for doing what is right. All you need to do is close your eyes and ask yourself what is the right thing to do right now. Pretend you are your own best friend for a while: What would you tell yourself? (I think you already know).

 

Sorry about being so straight forward on this. I have no intention to be rude. I only want you to consider that the Tao and the Tao Te Ching is really an incredibly poor excuse for not getting your act together.

[Thomsun]

No problem man, I get it now. Little flexibility in perceptions and little faith. The demons are deprived when you have faith, their existance will no longer matter. So its not really about demons, but faith, which brings inspiration, which brings passion, which brings motivation.

 

But we can do something about that. When I aim for a goal I can not logically go straigth toward it. I must be flexible in my faith, to bend and become straigth. Telling my self I am something that I cannot even comprehend will be useless, if my sub-conscious has no concept of the idea. It is a matter of finding the right believe at the right moment. If you can believe in the Tao or god, then you can believe in anything. And keep believing is an ongoing practice. Having faith as if your life depends on it. Well, better said: A faith that not even death can touch.

 

Thanks for the posts