shaktipat

[Vajrahridaya]

Let me disambiguate here; I meant Fire/Water in a more general sense vs a 5E sense. In this perspective Fire would represent your lower energy centers while water would represent your upper energy centers. In a martial context I'm going to use my lower dan tien, or I'll channel energy from the earth through my lower dan tien. In a healing capacity I use the upper energy centers; your golden flower isn't going to open if you're using your lower dan tien to work on someone. This concept represents the duality in Taoist vs Yoga arts. You can activate your lower energy centers without enlightenment, however the upper energy centers require enlightenment.

 

Kundalini Tantra goes into the upper chakras if one cultivates. Kundalini is not just fire, because when awakened, generally through fire, Kundalini awakening merely means "uncoiling" in reference to the entire being. Not all people who experience it's awakening experience it from the bottom up. I experienced it from the top down in fact, so I was activating my upper chakra experiences first, and having physical purification later.

 

Kundalini Tantra utilizes all the elements if done right, and opens all the chakras if cultivated past merely the lower chakras.

 

I see a lot of mis-assumptions here. The energy transforms as it raises through the chakras from lower and dense to higher and more refined as the chakras spin and the energy starts flowing upward from downward, then balancing and harmonizing in the heart chakra the higher and lower frequencies.

 

That's why it's easy to turn on your serpent fire, but harder to cultivate your golden flower. When my golden flower opens I know that the healing is meant to be, again it is the beauty of water... it is that perfection in construct the universe so readily illustrates.

 

We are mostly water. Kundalini does raise into water... it's not merely fire, it just starts as fire... generally speaking for most people. For me, it didn't happen that way though.

 

As for depleting yourself, I've only had this happen once, then I changed my behavior. I was at a fair and saw 2 elephants, one of which was having a very traumatic time. I felt bad and wanted to connect to him and help him. At this point my lower dan tien was very developed and my upper energy centers were starting to develop. I opened my palm to the elephant and connected, in this state I have a sort of 'vision' through my palm. The elephant stopped his rocking back and forth, he then looked at me and we became entranced. I transfered my calmness to him and his stress faded away... I was very happy to have been able to show him love. For the next 3 days I was so sad and cried often. I asked my master about this and he said I was using the wrong part of myself to help the elephant; it was then that he explained the difference between using fire and water.

 

Ah ok... yes, I've experienced this. He's right of course.

 

Take care!!

Edited February 9, 2011 by Vajrahridaya

[phore]

hey everyone, I updated the energy healing page and the front page

http://thundershaman.com/Energy Healing.html

http://thundershaman.com/index.html

 

I use universal energies instead of the ones in my own body to avoid transferring personality traits and tastes in food.

 

A skilled traveler leaves no tracks

Edited February 9, 2011 by phore

[fiveelementtao]

I've never heard of this idea and I've never experienced this myself. How is it fire uses your energy and not water? How is fire your personal energy and not water? Why can one not connect to the fire of all sorts of masters and utilize that as well?

 

And now we get to the difference between Kundalini and Qi energies.

 

(I know that a few will vehemently disagree with me here but... This is a result of a difference in definition of the word kundalini. Anyone who believes that kundalini is an energy like Qi has a different definition of kundalini than I do.)

 

By my understanding from my yogic teachers, Kundalini is not a palpable energy. It is the spiritual personality that has been formed by a person's karma and is the spiritual ego that gives life to their human self. Once it has been burned away, the person is liberated. So, you don't want MORE kundalini, you want less. By the way, many yogis both in the West and in India still do not understand what Kundalini really is which is why this misunderstanding is continually promoted...)

 

Kundalini does not liberate you it CONFINES you to your earthly ego... You want less kundalini not more...

 

As I was taught, Kundalini is not the bubbly, tingly energy that people feel when they do qigong or some yoga practices. Kundalini is Fire because it is the spiritual ego purifying itself, releasing karma of past lives to free the soul from rebirth. Kundalini Ma is the mother of the personality who resides within the spinal column. Kundalini is Fire. In yoga, the feminine is pure earthly fire. This fire is the Fire of the spiritual personality in the person. The Chakras are not like dan tiens. They are not energy centers that can be opened for energy cultivation. when people meditate on the chakras, all they are doing is concentrating on certain meridians and concentrating prana or qi in that area. You cannot open the chakras by meditating on them. This is a complete misunderstanding of what chakras are. Chakras can only be opened by maturing on a psychological level. The chakras open when a person has learned life lessons that change their perception. No amount of concentration on a bodily area can do this. Only acts of consciousness that release karma can do this. The Chakras are gateways to psychological realms. When the granthis (knots) are released and the chakras opened, the individual matures on a psychological level. Any energy manifestations or siddhis that manifest from this are purely karmic in nature. They are releasing latent karmic talents and also karmic challenges. What many people call Kundalini syndrome is not a direct result of kundalini. Many times it is not kundalinin at all. It is from Qi or prana stuck or overloaded in the nervous system and tissues. Many who suffer from kundalini syndrome could actually benefit from medical qigong treatments.

 

For anyone to claim that their kundalini is fully awakened does not understand what kundalini is or they would never make such claims. For anyone to have their kundalini fully awakened would mean that they have burned through ALL of their karma and no longer need to be reborn. The real state of this is that they cease to exist on the physical level. Even the avatars, like buddha, rama, krishna etc... brought some karma with them or they would not have been able to incarnate in the first place...

 

No one can transfer their kundalini to someone else. This is like saying you are transferring your karma to someone else... If energy is being transferred through shaktipat, it is not kundalini. And if it were kundalini, you sure as hell don't want it, because now you would have taken on someone else's karma. So, obviously the Universe does not work this way. So, whatever is being transferred through shaktipat is not kundalini. It is something else. It may help an individual with their karma, but karma cannot be given or taken away. It can only be burned through by each individual. The universe does not give anyone a free pass. You MUST work through your own karma.

 

So, the whole new age idea that Kundalini can be cultivated like Qi is a complete misunderstanding of what kundalini is. every one has only the kundalini that they bring with them. All that can be done with kundalini is to awaken what you have through the actions you take in life and then burned away. When Kundalini reaches her mate Shiva, she is absorbed into him and they become pure spirit. This is the goal in kundalini yoga: to awaken her only to free her by satisfying her desire to be reunited with her husband of pure consciousness which is Shiva.

 

One other thing I will say which will no doubt piss some people off. If you are worshipping kundalini, you are worshiping your own ego. This is one way to appease it so it can be released, but if you worship it as a god that exists outside of you, you are making your own ego GOD and strenghening it. any energy or power you get is a result of your ego getting more powerful...

 

Just another reminder that personal experiences of any nature can be an illusion. Tao is about powerlessness. Kundalini is about power.... If you know this going into it, and you understand that you are releasing your ego by satisfying it, THAT is true kundalini yoga. But, if you are getting a rush from the power of kundalini, you are strengthening your own ego and tying yourself down with fire of ego and adding to your karma.

 

To prove what I am saying, just compare how western kundalini junkies brag about their kundalini experiences as opposed to some other masters who downplay their energy experiences and focus on harmonious living...

 

This is not to say that kundalini is not a path of liberation for some people, but if so, it is because their challenge is to work through ego and release it.

 

I tried this path and for me, it was a disaster. My ego is way out of control and I need water because I cannot resist the temptation of ego power. For those strong souls who choose the fire path, my hat is off to them...

 

So, before people start frothing from the mouth with anger, remember that what I am really doing here is challenging peoples' definition of the word Kundalini. I am NOT challenging peoples' energy experiences. I have no wish to deny anyone their spiritual experiences. I am however expressing a difference of opinion on WHAT kind of energy they are experiencing. I wouldn't call it kundalini. You however can call it whatever you want...

 

But, watch how uncomfortable some will get if I say their energy experience is not kundalini and we will see how important it is for some to call it kundalini and attach all the new age definitions of enlightenment that people give to this word... instead of just simply qi or prana experiences...

 

OK.. let the maelstrom of angry dissent begin!

[Red Pheonix]

Kundalini Tantra goes into the upper chakras if one cultivates. Kundalini is not just fire, because when awakened, generally through fire, Kundalini awakening merely means "uncoiling" in reference to the entire being. Not all people who experience it's awakening experience it from the bottom up. I experienced it from the top down in fact, so I was activating my upper chakra experiences first, and having physical purification later.

 

Kundalini Tantra utilizes all the elements if done right, and opens all the chakras if cultivated past merely the lower chakras.

 

I see a lot of mis-assumptions here. The energy transforms as it raises through the chakras from lower and dense to higher and more refined as the chakras spin and the energy starts flowing upward from downward, then balancing and harmonizing in the heart chakra the higher and lower frequencies.

 

Take care!!

 

Thanks for the clarifications Vajrahridaya, I've only studied Taoist styles so I know very little about Yoga arts. Chakras are something that I've never worked with as they're not a Taoist concept; I do undertand them from a technical perspective, but it's not like they're ever used in Taoist Kung Fu. My information was given to me by masters who live in China on the Tibet border (Mt Qingcheng), some things get lost in translation although I'm sure there must be some merit to their advice.

 

Thanks again for the information, I appreciate your correction!

[ShaktiMama]

I respectly remove myself from any discussion on the difference.

*giggling*

 

s

 

 

And now we get to the difference between Kundalini and Qi energies.

 

(I know that a few will vehemently disagree with me here but... This is a result of a difference in definition of the word kundalini. Anyone who believes that kundalini is an energy like Qi has a different definition of kundalini than I do.)

 

By my understanding from my yogic teachers, Kundalini is not a palpable energy. It is the spiritual personality that has been formed by a person's karma and is the spiritual ego that gives life to their human self. Once it has been burned away, the person is liberated. So, you don't want MORE kundalini, you want less. By the way, many yogis both in the West and in India still do not understand what Kundalini really is which is why this misunderstanding is continually promoted...)

 

Kundalini does not liberate you it CONFINES you to your earthly ego... You want less kundalini not more...

 

As I was taught, Kundalini is not the bubbly, tingly energy that people feel when they do qigong or some yoga practices. Kundalini is Fire because it is the spiritual ego purifying itself, releasing karma of past lives to free the soul from rebirth. Kundalini Ma is the mother of the personality who resides within the spinal column. Kundalini is Fire. In yoga, the feminine is pure earthly fire. This fire is the Fire of the spiritual personality in the person. The Chakras are not like dan tiens. They are not energy centers that can be opened for energy cultivation. when people meditate on the chakras, all they are doing is concentrating on certain meridians and concentrating prana or qi in that area. You cannot open the chakras by meditating on them. This is a complete misunderstanding of what chakras are. Chakras can only be opened by maturing on a psychological level. The chakras open when a person has learned life lessons that change their perception. No amount of concentration on a bodily area can do this. Only acts of consciousness that release karma can do this. The Chakras are gateways to psychological realms. When the granthis (knots) are released and the chakras opened, the individual matures on a psychological level. Any energy manifestations or siddhis that manifest from this are purely karmic in nature. They are releasing latent karmic talents and also karmic challenges. What many people call Kundalini syndrome is not a direct result of kundalini. Many times it is not kundalinin at all. It is from Qi or prana stuck or overloaded in the nervous system and tissues. Many who suffer from kundalini syndrome could actually benefit from medical qigong treatments.

 

For anyone to claim that their kundalini is fully awakened does not understand what kundalini is or they would never make such claims. For anyone to have their kundalini fully awakened would mean that they have burned through ALL of their karma and no longer need to be reborn. The real state of this is that they cease to exist on the physical level. Even the avatars, like buddha, rama, krishna etc... brought some karma with them or they would not have been able to incarnate in the first place...

 

No one can transfer their kundalini to someone else. This is like saying you are transferring your karma to someone else... If energy is being transferred through shaktipat, it is not kundalini. And if it were kundalini, you sure as hell don't want it, because now you would have taken on someone else's karma. So, obviously the Universe does not work this way. So, whatever is being transferred through shaktipat is not kundalini. It is something else. It may help an individual with their karma, but karma cannot be given or taken away. It can only be burned through by each individual. The universe does not give anyone a free pass. You MUST work through your own karma.

 

So, the whole new age idea that Kundalini can be cultivated like Qi is a complete misunderstanding of what kundalini is. every one has only the kundalini that they bring with them. All that can be done with kundalini is to awaken what you have through the actions you take in life and then burned away. When Kundalini reaches her mate Shiva, she is absorbed into him and they become pure spirit. This is the goal in kundalini yoga: to awaken her only to free her by satisfying her desire to be reunited with her husband of pure consciousness which is Shiva.

 

One other thing I will say which will no doubt piss some people off. If you are worshipping kundalini, you are worshiping your own ego. This is one way to appease it so it can be released, but if you worship it as a god that exists outside of you, you are making your own ego GOD and strenghening it. any energy or power you get is a result of your ego getting more powerful...

 

Just another reminder that personal experiences of any nature can be an illusion. Tao is about powerlessness. Kundalini is about power.... If you know this going into it, and you understand that you are releasing your ego by satisfying it, THAT is true kundalini yoga. But, if you are getting a rush from the power of kundalini, you are strengthening your own ego and tying yourself down with fire of ego and adding to your karma.

 

To prove what I am saying, just compare how western kundalini junkies brag about their kundalini experiences as opposed to some other masters who downplay their energy experiences and focus on harmonious living...

 

This is not to say that kundalini is not a path of liberation for some people, but if so, it is because their challenge is to work through ego and release it.

 

I tried this path and for me, it was a disaster. My ego is way out of control and I need water because I cannot resist the temptation of ego power. For those strong souls who choose the fire path, my hat is off to them...

 

So, before people start frothing from the mouth with anger, remember that what I am really doing here is challenging peoples' definition of the word Kundalini. I am NOT challenging peoples' energy experiences. I have no wish to deny anyone their spiritual experiences. I am however expressing a difference of opinion on WHAT kind of energy they are experiencing. I wouldn't call it kundalini. You however can call it whatever you want...

 

But, watch how uncomfortable some will get if I say their energy experience is not kundalini and we will see how important it is for some to call it kundalini and attach all the new age definitions of enlightenment that people give to this word... instead of just simply qi or prana experiences...

 

OK.. let the maelstrom of angry dissent begin!

[ShaktiMama]

Shakti Mama,I had drempt you the some nights ago ,you were in a group off three and transferred tangible force into me.I havent been around Tao Bums for a few weeks now,neither am I your student or thinking of you.

It felt healing.

Maybe Tao Bums is getting under my skin or something else.

Sorry for being out of topic

 

It happens.

Blessings,

s

[ShaktiMama]

hey everyone, I updated the energy healing page and the front page

http://thundershaman.com/Energy Healing.html

http://thundershaman.com/index.html

 

I use universal energies instead of the ones in my own body to avoid transferring personality traits and tastes in food.

 

A skilled traveler leaves no tracks

 

Nice.

Bless you,

s

[ShaktiMama]

Yup my dear... part of the path.

 

I think you get ungrounded to get re-grounded from a different space of depth and the ungrounding process of the "old" filled with limitations me... can be discombobulating at times, and one can loose common social understanding as one is coming from a more free and less inhibited by false morals and conformed virtues state of mind.

 

ya dig?

 

Blue kisses right back at cha!! All the tantric paths reveal that the Siddha Masters travel along the infinite space communications line, so lapis blue is the deal with that...

 

totally diggin' it....groovy....

Edited February 9, 2011 by ShaktiMama

[surfingbudda]

And now we get to the difference between Kundalini and Qi energies.

 

(I know that a few will vehemently disagree with me here but... This is a result of a difference in definition of the word kundalini. Anyone who believes that kundalini is an energy like Qi has a different definition of kundalini than I do.)

 

By my understanding from my yogic teachers, Kundalini is not a palpable energy. It is the spiritual personality that has been formed by a person's karma and is the spiritual ego that gives life to their human self. Once it has been burned away, the person is liberated. So, you don't want MORE kundalini, you want less. By the way, many yogis both in the West and in India still do not understand what Kundalini really is which is why this misunderstanding is continually promoted...)

 

Kundalini does not liberate you it CONFINES you to your earthly ego... You want less kundalini not more...

 

As I was taught, Kundalini is not the bubbly, tingly energy that people feel when they do qigong or some yoga practices. Kundalini is Fire because it is the spiritual ego purifying itself, releasing karma of past lives to free the soul from rebirth. Kundalini Ma is the mother of the personality who resides within the spinal column. Kundalini is Fire. In yoga, the feminine is pure earthly fire. This fire is the Fire of the spiritual personality in the person. The Chakras are not like dan tiens. They are not energy centers that can be opened for energy cultivation. when people meditate on the chakras, all they are doing is concentrating on certain meridians and concentrating prana or qi in that area. You cannot open the chakras by meditating on them. This is a complete misunderstanding of what chakras are. Chakras can only be opened by maturing on a psychological level. The chakras open when a person has learned life lessons that change their perception. No amount of concentration on a bodily area can do this. Only acts of consciousness that release karma can do this. The Chakras are gateways to psychological realms. When the granthis (knots) are released and the chakras opened, the individual matures on a psychological level. Any energy manifestations or siddhis that manifest from this are purely karmic in nature. They are releasing latent karmic talents and also karmic challenges. What many people call Kundalini syndrome is not a direct result of kundalini. Many times it is not kundalinin at all. It is from Qi or prana stuck or overloaded in the nervous system and tissues. Many who suffer from kundalini syndrome could actually benefit from medical qigong treatments.

 

For anyone to claim that their kundalini is fully awakened does not understand what kundalini is or they would never make such claims. For anyone to have their kundalini fully awakened would mean that they have burned through ALL of their karma and no longer need to be reborn. The real state of this is that they cease to exist on the physical level. Even the avatars, like buddha, rama, krishna etc... brought some karma with them or they would not have been able to incarnate in the first place...

 

No one can transfer their kundalini to someone else. This is like saying you are transferring your karma to someone else... If energy is being transferred through shaktipat, it is not kundalini. And if it were kundalini, you sure as hell don't want it, because now you would have taken on someone else's karma. So, obviously the Universe does not work this way. So, whatever is being transferred through shaktipat is not kundalini. It is something else. It may help an individual with their karma, but karma cannot be given or taken away. It can only be burned through by each individual. The universe does not give anyone a free pass. You MUST work through your own karma.

 

So, the whole new age idea that Kundalini can be cultivated like Qi is a complete misunderstanding of what kundalini is. every one has only the kundalini that they bring with them. All that can be done with kundalini is to awaken what you have through the actions you take in life and then burned away. When Kundalini reaches her mate Shiva, she is absorbed into him and they become pure spirit. This is the goal in kundalini yoga: to awaken her only to free her by satisfying her desire to be reunited with her husband of pure consciousness which is Shiva.

 

One other thing I will say which will no doubt piss some people off. If you are worshipping kundalini, you are worshiping your own ego. This is one way to appease it so it can be released, but if you worship it as a god that exists outside of you, you are making your own ego GOD and strenghening it. any energy or power you get is a result of your ego getting more powerful...

 

Just another reminder that personal experiences of any nature can be an illusion. Tao is about powerlessness. Kundalini is about power.... If you know this going into it, and you understand that you are releasing your ego by satisfying it, THAT is true kundalini yoga. But, if you are getting a rush from the power of kundalini, you are strengthening your own ego and tying yourself down with fire of ego and adding to your karma.

 

To prove what I am saying, just compare how western kundalini junkies brag about their kundalini experiences as opposed to some other masters who downplay their energy experiences and focus on harmonious living...

 

This is not to say that kundalini is not a path of liberation for some people, but if so, it is because their challenge is to work through ego and release it.

 

I tried this path and for me, it was a disaster. My ego is way out of control and I need water because I cannot resist the temptation of ego power. For those strong souls who choose the fire path, my hat is off to them...

 

So, before people start frothing from the mouth with anger, remember that what I am really doing here is challenging peoples' definition of the word Kundalini. I am NOT challenging peoples' energy experiences. I have no wish to deny anyone their spiritual experiences. I am however expressing a difference of opinion on WHAT kind of energy they are experiencing. I wouldn't call it kundalini. You however can call it whatever you want...

 

But, watch how uncomfortable some will get if I say their energy experience is not kundalini and we will see how important it is for some to call it kundalini and attach all the new age definitions of enlightenment that people give to this word... instead of just simply qi or prana experiences...

 

OK.. let the maelstrom of angry dissent begin!

 

 

Thank you very much Fiveelementao for this great post. I have always never understood what exactly kundalini is and how it is different than qi and now I feel I have a much better understanding as your post really resonated with me. What is the best way an individual can as you say remove kundalini? Since kundalini is a personal thing and everyone has unique karma to work out, perhaps it is really up to each individual to figure out their best way to remove their kundalini. I would think being in the wu wei and following where it takes you so that your actions are aligned with the source may be the best way to deal with our personal karmic debt.

[Vajrahridaya]

And now we get to the difference between Kundalini and Qi energies.

 

(I know that a few will vehemently disagree with me here but... This is a result of a difference in definition of the word kundalini. Anyone who believes that kundalini is an energy like Qi has a different definition of kundalini than I do.)

 

By my understanding from my yogic teachers, Kundalini is not a palpable energy. It is the spiritual personality that has been formed by a person's karma and is the spiritual ego that gives life to their human self. Once it has been burned away, the person is liberated. So, you don't want MORE kundalini, you want less. By the way, many yogis both in the West and in India still do not understand what Kundalini really is which is why this misunderstanding is continually promoted...)

 

Kundalini does not liberate you it CONFINES you to your earthly ego... You want less kundalini not more...

 

As I was taught, Kundalini is not the bubbly, tingly energy that people feel when they do qigong or some yoga practices. Kundalini is Fire because it is the spiritual ego purifying itself, releasing karma of past lives to free the soul from rebirth. Kundalini Ma is the mother of the personality who resides within the spinal column. Kundalini is Fire. In yoga, the feminine is pure earthly fire. This fire is the Fire of the spiritual personality in the person. The Chakras are not like dan tiens. They are not energy centers that can be opened for energy cultivation. when people meditate on the chakras, all they are doing is concentrating on certain meridians and concentrating prana or qi in that area. You cannot open the chakras by meditating on them. This is a complete misunderstanding of what chakras are. Chakras can only be opened by maturing on a psychological level. The chakras open when a person has learned life lessons that change their perception. No amount of concentration on a bodily area can do this. Only acts of consciousness that release karma can do this. The Chakras are gateways to psychological realms. When the granthis (knots) are released and the chakras opened, the individual matures on a psychological level. Any energy manifestations or siddhis that manifest from this are purely karmic in nature. They are releasing latent karmic talents and also karmic challenges. What many people call Kundalini syndrome is not a direct result of kundalini. Many times it is not kundalinin at all. It is from Qi or prana stuck or overloaded in the nervous system and tissues. Many who suffer from kundalini syndrome could actually benefit from medical qigong treatments.

 

For anyone to claim that their kundalini is fully awakened does not understand what kundalini is or they would never make such claims. For anyone to have their kundalini fully awakened would mean that they have burned through ALL of their karma and no longer need to be reborn. The real state of this is that they cease to exist on the physical level. Even the avatars, like buddha, rama, krishna etc... brought some karma with them or they would not have been able to incarnate in the first place...

 

No one can transfer their kundalini to someone else. This is like saying you are transferring your karma to someone else... If energy is being transferred through shaktipat, it is not kundalini. And if it were kundalini, you sure as hell don't want it, because now you would have taken on someone else's karma. So, obviously the Universe does not work this way. So, whatever is being transferred through shaktipat is not kundalini. It is something else. It may help an individual with their karma, but karma cannot be given or taken away. It can only be burned through by each individual. The universe does not give anyone a free pass. You MUST work through your own karma.

 

So, the whole new age idea that Kundalini can be cultivated like Qi is a complete misunderstanding of what kundalini is. every one has only the kundalini that they bring with them. All that can be done with kundalini is to awaken what you have through the actions you take in life and then burned away. When Kundalini reaches her mate Shiva, she is absorbed into him and they become pure spirit. This is the goal in kundalini yoga: to awaken her only to free her by satisfying her desire to be reunited with her husband of pure consciousness which is Shiva.

 

One other thing I will say which will no doubt piss some people off. If you are worshipping kundalini, you are worshiping your own ego. This is one way to appease it so it can be released, but if you worship it as a god that exists outside of you, you are making your own ego GOD and strenghening it. any energy or power you get is a result of your ego getting more powerful...

 

Just another reminder that personal experiences of any nature can be an illusion. Tao is about powerlessness. Kundalini is about power.... If you know this going into it, and you understand that you are releasing your ego by satisfying it, THAT is true kundalini yoga. But, if you are getting a rush from the power of kundalini, you are strengthening your own ego and tying yourself down with fire of ego and adding to your karma.

 

To prove what I am saying, just compare how western kundalini junkies brag about their kundalini experiences as opposed to some other masters who downplay their energy experiences and focus on harmonious living...

 

This is not to say that kundalini is not a path of liberation for some people, but if so, it is because their challenge is to work through ego and release it.

 

I tried this path and for me, it was a disaster. My ego is way out of control and I need water because I cannot resist the temptation of ego power. For those strong souls who choose the fire path, my hat is off to them...

 

So, before people start frothing from the mouth with anger, remember that what I am really doing here is challenging peoples' definition of the word Kundalini. I am NOT challenging peoples' energy experiences. I have no wish to deny anyone their spiritual experiences. I am however expressing a difference of opinion on WHAT kind of energy they are experiencing. I wouldn't call it kundalini. You however can call it whatever you want...

 

But, watch how uncomfortable some will get if I say their energy experience is not kundalini and we will see how important it is for some to call it kundalini and attach all the new age definitions of enlightenment that people give to this word... instead of just simply qi or prana experiences...

 

OK.. let the maelstrom of angry dissent begin!

 

In a sense, I can see what you're getting at, as kundalini means coiled one, so once one is uncoiled, what's the word... ankundalini? Kind of like atman vs. anatman. In enlightenment anatman is realization and the atman is seen through.

 

I think a better word would be "prajna" or the energy of wisdom. From the energy or fire of purification to the energy of wisdom.

 

I give your perspective credence... it's one of the reasons why I went to Buddhism and Dzogchen specifically.

 

So... yes. I'll agree.

Edited February 9, 2011 by Vajrahridaya

[Vajrahridaya]

Thanks for the clarifications Vajrahridaya, I've only studied Taoist styles so I know very little about Yoga arts. Chakras are something that I've never worked with as they're not a Taoist concept; I do undertand them from a technical perspective, but it's not like they're ever used in Taoist Kung Fu. My information was given to me by masters who live in China on the Tibet border (Mt Qingcheng), some things get lost in translation although I'm sure there must be some merit to their advice.

 

Thanks again for the information, I appreciate your correction!

 

Oh wonderful!

 

Thanks.

 

I like 5E's post though, it's a perspective I can give credence to. I think kundalini goes through a transformation if one goes into real awakening and stops being kundalini in the lower sense of a person being coiled in ego, and starts to be "prajna" or the energy of wisdom instead... which is calm, open, free, not so much into altered states of mind, not so caught up in "self" or "SELF" even in a universal sense, but just sees how things connect spontaneously, with peace, even though this realm is full of friction, the inner state of peace and release into every moment is prominent.

[Ya Mu]

And now we get to the difference between Kundalini and Qi energies.

 

(I know that a few will vehemently disagree with me here but... This is a result of a difference in definition of the word kundalini. Anyone who believes that kundalini is an energy like Qi has a different definition of kundalini than I do.)

 

By my understanding from my yogic teachers, Kundalini is not a palpable energy. It is the spiritual personality that has been formed by a person's karma and is the spiritual ego that gives life to their human self. Once it has been burned away, the person is liberated. So, you don't want MORE kundalini, you want less. By the way, many yogis both in the West and in India still do not understand what Kundalini really is which is why this misunderstanding is continually promoted...)

 

Kundalini does not liberate you it CONFINES you to your earthly ego... You want less kundalini not more...

 

As I was taught, Kundalini is not the bubbly, tingly energy that people feel when they do qigong or some yoga practices. Kundalini is Fire because it is the spiritual ego purifying itself, releasing karma of past lives to free the soul from rebirth. Kundalini Ma is the mother of the personality who resides within the spinal column. Kundalini is Fire. In yoga, the feminine is pure earthly fire. This fire is the Fire of the spiritual personality in the person. The Chakras are not like dan tiens. They are not energy centers that can be opened for energy cultivation. when people meditate on the chakras, all they are doing is concentrating on certain meridians and concentrating prana or qi in that area. You cannot open the chakras by meditating on them. This is a complete misunderstanding of what chakras are. Chakras can only be opened by maturing on a psychological level. The chakras open when a person has learned life lessons that change their perception. No amount of concentration on a bodily area can do this. Only acts of consciousness that release karma can do this. The Chakras are gateways to psychological realms. When the granthis (knots) are released and the chakras opened, the individual matures on a psychological level. Any energy manifestations or siddhis that manifest from this are purely karmic in nature. They are releasing latent karmic talents and also karmic challenges. What many people call Kundalini syndrome is not a direct result of kundalini. Many times it is not kundalinin at all. It is from Qi or prana stuck or overloaded in the nervous system and tissues. Many who suffer from kundalini syndrome could actually benefit from medical qigong treatments.

 

For anyone to claim that their kundalini is fully awakened does not understand what kundalini is or they would never make such claims. For anyone to have their kundalini fully awakened would mean that they have burned through ALL of their karma and no longer need to be reborn. The real state of this is that they cease to exist on the physical level. Even the avatars, like buddha, rama, krishna etc... brought some karma with them or they would not have been able to incarnate in the first place...

 

No one can transfer their kundalini to someone else. This is like saying you are transferring your karma to someone else... If energy is being transferred through shaktipat, it is not kundalini. And if it were kundalini, you sure as hell don't want it, because now you would have taken on someone else's karma. So, obviously the Universe does not work this way. So, whatever is being transferred through shaktipat is not kundalini. It is something else. It may help an individual with their karma, but karma cannot be given or taken away. It can only be burned through by each individual. The universe does not give anyone a free pass. You MUST work through your own karma.

 

So, the whole new age idea that Kundalini can be cultivated like Qi is a complete misunderstanding of what kundalini is. every one has only the kundalini that they bring with them. All that can be done with kundalini is to awaken what you have through the actions you take in life and then burned away. When Kundalini reaches her mate Shiva, she is absorbed into him and they become pure spirit. This is the goal in kundalini yoga: to awaken her only to free her by satisfying her desire to be reunited with her husband of pure consciousness which is Shiva.

 

One other thing I will say which will no doubt piss some people off. If you are worshipping kundalini, you are worshiping your own ego. This is one way to appease it so it can be released, but if you worship it as a god that exists outside of you, you are making your own ego GOD and strenghening it. any energy or power you get is a result of your ego getting more powerful...

 

Just another reminder that personal experiences of any nature can be an illusion. Tao is about powerlessness. Kundalini is about power.... If you know this going into it, and you understand that you are releasing your ego by satisfying it, THAT is true kundalini yoga. But, if you are getting a rush from the power of kundalini, you are strengthening your own ego and tying yourself down with fire of ego and adding to your karma.

 

To prove what I am saying, just compare how western kundalini junkies brag about their kundalini experiences as opposed to some other masters who downplay their energy experiences and focus on harmonious living...

 

This is not to say that kundalini is not a path of liberation for some people, but if so, it is because their challenge is to work through ego and release it.

 

I tried this path and for me, it was a disaster. My ego is way out of control and I need water because I cannot resist the temptation of ego power. For those strong souls who choose the fire path, my hat is off to them...

 

So, before people start frothing from the mouth with anger, remember that what I am really doing here is challenging peoples' definition of the word Kundalini. I am NOT challenging peoples' energy experiences. I have no wish to deny anyone their spiritual experiences. I am however expressing a difference of opinion on WHAT kind of energy they are experiencing. I wouldn't call it kundalini. You however can call it whatever you want...

 

But, watch how uncomfortable some will get if I say their energy experience is not kundalini and we will see how important it is for some to call it kundalini and attach all the new age definitions of enlightenment that people give to this word... instead of just simply qi or prana experiences...

 

OK.. let the maelstrom of angry dissent begin!

I find your post very disillusioning. Why? Not because of anything you defined.

What got me was this: "The universe does not give anyone a free pass. You MUST work through your own karma."

Dang, I can't buy a stairway to Heaven? :lol:

[Vajrahridaya]

I want to elaborate. I think a mistake many make on kundalini or theistic paths is that the Masters feel they are merged with "god" the one and only... which is merely an ideation or expansion of self. This leads to beings like Adi Da the Free John, where they feel that their will is gods will. Even though there is great power, love, bliss, etc. There is still merely a deeper reification of identification on a larger, deeper and more powerful scale, which is why I went to Buddhism after many kundalini experiences and experiencing and the philosophy of dependent origination and anatman instead of the kundalini path of independent origination/consciousness. I think the ramifications of difference are deep and subtle, reaching into the non-conceptual.

 

This is why the Buddha said that theistic paths merely lead to formless bliss realms and the realms of the highly powerful "gods" or devalokas.

 

Peace.

[ShaktiMama]

I want to elaborate. I think a mistake many make on kundalini or theistic paths is that the Masters feel they are merged with "god" the one and only... which is merely an ideation or expansion of self. This leads to beings like Adi Da the Free John, where they feel that their will is gods will. Even though there is great power, love, bliss, etc. There is still merely a deeper reification of identification on a larger, deeper and more powerful scale, which is why I went to Buddhism after many kundalini experiences and experiencing and the philosophy of dependent origination and anatman instead of the kundalini path of independent origination/consciousness. I think the ramifications of difference are deep and subtle, reaching into the non-conceptual.

 

This is why the Buddha said that theistic paths merely lead to formless bliss realms and the realms of the highly powerful "gods" or devalokas.

 

Peace.

 

 

Words just aren't adequate after a certain point. Definitions are limitations. I stay with what makes people comfortable and then we move on.

 

s

[Vajrahridaya]

Words just aren't adequate after a certain point. Definitions are limitations. I stay with what makes people comfortable and then we move on.

 

s

 

Yes, I said many make. I wasn't saying that everyone would make the same mistake.

 

But, dependent origination empties all residue and layers of identity from clinging. This is a fundamental fact.

[ShaktiMama]

Yes, I said many make. I wasn't saying that everyone would make the same mistake.

 

But, dependent origination empties all residue and layers of identity from clinging. This is a fundamental fact.

 

I don't know what that is And I have decided to stay away from reading that thread without even reading the first post. I wasn't challenging you. It is just what is.

 

I can't explain anything about That anymore. It is beyond my level of understanding so I just wait watch and help people make their own discoveries.

 

That just is...and may I be so bold as to say it is non theistic? But again, I start with where people are at in their conceptual comfort zone.

s

[Vajrahridaya]

I didn't even think you were challenging me Shaktimama.

 

I should have used some emoticons to lighten up my post. I was in a hurry... typed that in between a movie bathroom break for my wifey... LOL!!

[Ya Mu]

And now we get to the difference between Kundalini and Qi energies.

 

(I know that a few will vehemently disagree with me here but... This is a result of a difference in definition of the word kundalini. Anyone who believes that kundalini is an energy like Qi has a different definition of kundalini than I do.)

 

By my understanding from my yogic teachers, Kundalini is not a palpable energy. It is the spiritual personality that has been formed by a person's karma and is the spiritual ego that gives life to their human self. Once it has been burned away, the person is liberated. So, you don't want MORE kundalini, you want less. By the way, many yogis both in the West and in India still do not understand what Kundalini really is which is why this misunderstanding is continually promoted...)

 

Kundalini does not liberate you it CONFINES you to your earthly ego... You want less kundalini not more...

 

As I was taught, Kundalini is not the bubbly, tingly energy that people feel when they do qigong or some yoga practices. Kundalini is Fire because it is the spiritual ego purifying itself, releasing karma of past lives to free the soul from rebirth. Kundalini Ma is the mother of the personality who resides within the spinal column. Kundalini is Fire. In yoga, the feminine is pure earthly fire. This fire is the Fire of the spiritual personality in the person. The Chakras are not like dan tiens. They are not energy centers that can be opened for energy cultivation. when people meditate on the chakras, all they are doing is concentrating on certain meridians and concentrating prana or qi in that area. You cannot open the chakras by meditating on them. This is a complete misunderstanding of what chakras are. Chakras can only be opened by maturing on a psychological level. The chakras open when a person has learned life lessons that change their perception. No amount of concentration on a bodily area can do this. Only acts of consciousness that release karma can do this. The Chakras are gateways to psychological realms. When the granthis (knots) are released and the chakras opened, the individual matures on a psychological level. Any energy manifestations or siddhis that manifest from this are purely karmic in nature. They are releasing latent karmic talents and also karmic challenges. What many people call Kundalini syndrome is not a direct result of kundalini. Many times it is not kundalinin at all. It is from Qi or prana stuck or overloaded in the nervous system and tissues. Many who suffer from kundalini syndrome could actually benefit from medical qigong treatments.

 

For anyone to claim that their kundalini is fully awakened does not understand what kundalini is or they would never make such claims. For anyone to have their kundalini fully awakened would mean that they have burned through ALL of their karma and no longer need to be reborn. The real state of this is that they cease to exist on the physical level. Even the avatars, like buddha, rama, krishna etc... brought some karma with them or they would not have been able to incarnate in the first place...

 

No one can transfer their kundalini to someone else. This is like saying you are transferring your karma to someone else... If energy is being transferred through shaktipat, it is not kundalini. And if it were kundalini, you sure as hell don't want it, because now you would have taken on someone else's karma. So, obviously the Universe does not work this way. So, whatever is being transferred through shaktipat is not kundalini. It is something else. It may help an individual with their karma, but karma cannot be given or taken away. It can only be burned through by each individual. The universe does not give anyone a free pass. You MUST work through your own karma.

 

So, the whole new age idea that Kundalini can be cultivated like Qi is a complete misunderstanding of what kundalini is. every one has only the kundalini that they bring with them. All that can be done with kundalini is to awaken what you have through the actions you take in life and then burned away. When Kundalini reaches her mate Shiva, she is absorbed into him and they become pure spirit. This is the goal in kundalini yoga: to awaken her only to free her by satisfying her desire to be reunited with her husband of pure consciousness which is Shiva.

 

One other thing I will say which will no doubt piss some people off. If you are worshipping kundalini, you are worshiping your own ego. This is one way to appease it so it can be released, but if you worship it as a god that exists outside of you, you are making your own ego GOD and strenghening it. any energy or power you get is a result of your ego getting more powerful...

 

Just another reminder that personal experiences of any nature can be an illusion. Tao is about powerlessness. Kundalini is about power.... If you know this going into it, and you understand that you are releasing your ego by satisfying it, THAT is true kundalini yoga. But, if you are getting a rush from the power of kundalini, you are strengthening your own ego and tying yourself down with fire of ego and adding to your karma.

 

To prove what I am saying, just compare how western kundalini junkies brag about their kundalini experiences as opposed to some other masters who downplay their energy experiences and focus on harmonious living...

 

This is not to say that kundalini is not a path of liberation for some people, but if so, it is because their challenge is to work through ego and release it.

 

I tried this path and for me, it was a disaster. My ego is way out of control and I need water because I cannot resist the temptation of ego power. For those strong souls who choose the fire path, my hat is off to them...

 

So, before people start frothing from the mouth with anger, remember that what I am really doing here is challenging peoples' definition of the word Kundalini. I am NOT challenging peoples' energy experiences. I have no wish to deny anyone their spiritual experiences. I am however expressing a difference of opinion on WHAT kind of energy they are experiencing. I wouldn't call it kundalini. You however can call it whatever you want...

 

But, watch how uncomfortable some will get if I say their energy experience is not kundalini and we will see how important it is for some to call it kundalini and attach all the new age definitions of enlightenment that people give to this word... instead of just simply qi or prana experiences...

 

OK.. let the maelstrom of angry dissent begin!

You know, I have said for a very long time that chakra's and the energy centers were not the same; one has dimensionality and the other has a physical location. I have found only a few who seem to understand this.

[phore]

I notice that chakras correspond to areas in the central nervous system (the spine and the brain). The dantiens seem to correspond to areas in the body that contain a high density of nerve fibers, the guts, heart and brain. Then the other points seem to be along the nerve fibers throughout the body.

I usually call it higher energy, shen, spiritual energy, or shakti.

[Birch]

My personal experience (which is all I know) is that "my" kundalini fully rising will result in "my" destruction. It's dropped off a couple of times. Got it back.

 

Because I neither fear (nor dishonor) myself, I have decided to stall my own "K" progess. If it "needs" to happen faster, who am I to get in it's way? Besides, all I really want (and have ever wanted) is a neat life experience with love, laughter, prosperity, friendship, good health and some kind of role in being a force for beneficial (as opposed to evil) stuff If I'm all disappeared in the void, not much I can do :-) Unless

 

Unless folks can operate from da void, but then there wouldn't be any ff-ing point in being incarnate in the first place...idiots

[Vajrahridaya]

My personal experience (which is all I know) is that "my" kundalini fully rising will result in "my" destruction. It's dropped off a couple of times. Got it back.

 

Because I neither fear (nor dishonor) myself, I have decided to stall my own "K" progess. If it "needs" to happen faster, who am I to get in it's way? Besides, all I really want (and have ever wanted) is a neat life experience with love, laughter, prosperity, friendship, good health and some kind of role in being a force for beneficial (as opposed to evil) stuff If I'm all disappeared in the void, not much I can do :-) Unless

 

Unless folks can operate from da void, but then there wouldn't be any ff-ing point in being incarnate in the first place...idiots

 

You take the idea of self transcendence too darn literally... seriously. This is your main problem with "emptiness," a misunderstanding.

 

There is no disappearing into the void, there is just freedom from your own personal "BS."

 

EVERYTHING operates from the void already... we as humans just have the power to realize that. :lol:

[Vajrahridaya]

I notice that chakras correspond to areas in the central nervous system (the spine and the brain). The dantiens seem to correspond to areas in the body that contain a high density of nerve fibers, the guts, heart and brain. Then the other points seem to be along the nerve fibers throughout the body.

I usually call it higher energy, shen, spiritual energy, or shakti.

 

I agree...

 

We call it "prajna" in Vajrayana. The energy of wisdom.

[Birch]

You take the idea of self transcendence too darn literally... seriously. This is your main problem with "emptiness," a misunderstanding.

 

There is no disappearing into the void, there is just freedom from your own personal "BS."

 

EVERYTHING operates from the void already... we as humans just have the power to realize that. :lol:

 

 

GTH Mr V. I'm very serious. You ever had your entire self disappear? Was it fun?

Personally, it was fun once. And give up on me with your Buddha BS BS. Thank you

 

Respect my path mate, and I'll respect yours.

[Vajrahridaya]

GTH Mr V. I'm very serious. You ever had your entire self disappear? Was it fun?

Personally, it was fun once. And give up on me with your Buddha BS BS. Thank you

 

Respect my path mate, and I'll respect yours.

 

Disappear? It's a psychological thing, not physiological. Even in the Body of Light or Rainbow Body/Jalus... you only disappear to other people into another dimension of existence, so you don't really disappear, not to yourself.

 

p.s. Go To Hell? Wow... :lol: Only to get people out of it...

Edited February 10, 2011 by Vajrahridaya

[Birch]

Whatevs dude. Thing is I LIKE where I am, and I LIKE the people and I LIKE my life and I LIKE oh so many things that I couldn't begin to explain. There's a time and a place to be dead, this is not one of them.

 

Hey, I could be the first non-buddhist to reach a deal with "enlightenment". Yup, seems like a good idea. Now be off with you and your silly ways

 

And if my 5E has it down, you shall do so despite your sputtering and stammering "BS".

 

With thanks