So, what if we are not good people?

[Aaron]

Well, if you have to ask if you've found and are following your true nature...then you haven't.

 

This is similar to the New Agey advice to just "follow your heart." Sounds great...but how do you actually do that??

 

The catch to these is unblocking your connection to these aspects first...which is a whole task in itself. So, you can't just simply follow these tenets off the bat.

 

 

Hello Vortex,

 

Very good point, but I think the problem is also that when you say "follow your heart" you're applying a moral value to it, since heart is meant to be the "goodness within" and that's not what original nature is at all.* If you follow your heart what you're actually doing is following what you've been taught is the altruistic self that exists within. Is this a bad thing, absolutely not, at least not morally speaking, but is it following original nature? Not at all.

 

Original nature is about needs verses wants, understanding one's place within the world on an intrinsic level, and acting in accord with Tao, rather than in one's best interests. The last part is the only altruistic aspect that one can garner from it, the only problem being that society might not view it as such.

 

With all that said, there's a reason enlightened people don't go on rampages, become dictators, or encourage violence, because there is a general understanding that as human beings we are meant to work together.

 

This comes back to wu-wei, the idea of non-action, or noninterference. If we are working in accordance with our original nature then we do not feel the need to interfere when there's no need to. We understand that what's actually important is our own actions in regards to the world and not others actions. Hence the Sage doesn't start rebellions or inspire the masses to prepare for the apocalypse, rather they take the moment that they are living in at that time and pay attention to it. From this moment all other moments come. Understand where you are now and you will understand the past and future without knowing either.

 

Aaron

 

*- Also it's very easy to misinterpret original nature as original sin. This actually may be a closer comparison, since much of religion and morality is about denying the impulses one has that are deemed unacceptable by society. Religions were formed in order to ensure that nomadic societies that were evolving into agrarian societies would be able to work together and live together without excessive violence.

Edited February 13, 2011 by Twinner

[gendao]

^ Well, I didn't say Tao = heart.

 

I was just making a similar comparison for comparison's sake.

 

 

Although, the "heartspace" is not really about morality (a mental conceptual framework), anyways...

[manitou]

 

In my own mind non-action isn't about not taking action, but rather not interfering, not forcing our will upon others. So to explain it in it's most simple terms, it's about learning to live in harmony with others. There is a time for action and non-action, the trick it to learn when to do either.

 

 

What a nice way to express this. Not interfering is a great way to say it.

 

When I am in wu-wei mode on something in particular (maybe it's a relationship with someone that's gotten bumpy), I find there are a couple things that are pre-cursors for the wu-wei effect of magically seeing that things happen on their own:

 

- First, decide to do nothing to interfere with a dynamic already in motion.

 

- Respond to each and every stimulus in this situation with a loving attitude, or at least the closest you can come to this. Everything from this point on must be done with kindness. Try no judgment of any kind.

 

- Eliminate all negative expectations of another's behavior, and expect the very best result to come around in its own time. then just watch and wait. It will come around of its own volition.

 

The problem with the wu-wei process is that it requires a certain impeccability with one's own character for it to work. It's really hard to explain - Don Juan Mateus demonstrated it best to Carlos Casteneda when he had him recapitulate his life, looking for the pivotal moments in his life where he either owed someone a thanks or an apology. This took Carlos years, but it cleared him out sufficiently (although some would argue that he got strange later) for the wu-wei process. The internal vision must be clear for this process to happen.

 

The Sage of the Tao has certainly mastered the impeccability of spirit, by the description of the Sage's behavior you can see that. What the Tao doesn't seem to tell us is how the Sage got to that point. apparently we're on our own to find this spiritual cleansing device.

 

The comments on following your heart are interesting. This meant one thing to me as a young woman, another thing to me as an old woman. As a young woman it merely meant to fall in 'love' every time I turned around. Now it means that if I have a burning desire in my heart to do something, because I am confident enough that I am somewhat aligned with the Tao at any given moment, I do it. I figure if it's burning that bad it must need to be expressed for some reason. This does combine with wu-wei or not-doing; my belief is that a burning desire is an indication to act, but Only if our own house is in order, in an emotional way.

[三江源]

It seems we are on the same note here. What I immediately feel is that the issue of intent is a tricky one, atleast for me. The ego uses all these subtle and cunning strategies to gain back control from what comes from a different source. Most times I have a hard time with it as I "try" as you say. How do we set up an intent, so that something deeper is able to express itself?

 

Letting go of control is scary. Mostly because it leaves us out there. And it often times runs counter to our familiar preferences, desires, dreams and plans. Letting go, atleast for me started a sort of grieving process, seeing alot of things I identified with go; old identities, habits, self conceptions, even things I really love to do. As a consequence, it made me backtrack abit =)

 

What you say about letting the Shen up I can connect to, but what did you mean by heating temperature?

 

h

 

 

Great question - "How do we set up an intent, so that something deeper is able to express itself?" and in conjunction with the 'scary' and the 'temperature' thing you picked up on , my sense is that 'trying' and all the associate repercussions are on the 'hot' side of the scale.. there is a rising energy in there, a yang 'doingness' which signals to the ego to get involved.

The intent is cool energy. It comes from a more neutral space, both the neutrality and the space both being key. You know how if you sit further back in your seat instead of forward, you have a different set of responses. The hotseat literally being 'on the edge of my seat'.

You know the qigong injunction 'sink' also in a stance when you 'sit'.. the different quality of energy that comes from those adjustments.

There is less self at the front, less self rising.Self is let off, doesnt have to be alert and running the show.

 

I think we have talked about the grief before. I know what you are talking about. The thing is, the other side of the less attachment is more space. It's personal Feng Shui. It's like moving into a new house. How long do you miss the old house for.. you could potentially miss it for ever,nostalgia, or you could radically shift so that you realise fully, "I lived there then, I dont live there now, I couldnt, me now is not me then." I use this analogy because of the house of our body, the house of our pysche, the house of our being, but also because I went to see my old flat recently, the building, and always in the past I would get nostalgia, and it was like a tongue feeling for a missing tooth.. it'd gone. No nostalgia. A full and complete moving on. As a very deep attacher, that's quite something for me to experience. and I didnt feel grief for the missing nostalgia, which also surprised me. It was gone, gone, gone, and instead there was space. And to my surprise there was no loss or panic at the opening up of a really quite sizeable space, it was, instead, calm. A relief. And again, a release from some 'hot' energy in my being, now released to be cooler.

 

The cool space that opens up isnt 'cold'. it's the space for the cascading when it needs to, and otherwise just space, in which occurances can take place, or not, according to circumstanced. This makes responses more current and clear.

Such is my understanding, in this moment.

[Non]

hey, at least by being bad you get women.

Edited February 13, 2011 by Non

[KCHooligan]

- Eliminate all negative expectations of another's behavior, and expect the very best result to come around in its own time. then just watch and wait. It will come around of its own volition.

 

 

Wouldn't any expectations, good or bad, be setting yourself up for struggles? The good obviously doesn't always come out in the end. Or do you just mean control your actions to reflect a positive expectation, without holding on to this expectation. Sort of detached from it, but using it as a guide to actions?

[manitou]

Wouldn't any expectations, good or bad, be setting yourself up for struggles? The good obviously doesn't always come out in the end. Or do you just mean control your actions to reflect a positive expectation, without holding on to this expectation. Sort of detached from it, but using it as a guide to actions?

 

Yes - it does have to be done without expectations. The highest result will arrive, we don't know what it will be. that much can be trusted.

When an action is required to be taken by you in the dynamic, always do it from the highest place you can, the highest action. That way you will know you are not interfering with the action of the Tao. Sort of an agape love or compassion look on everything, but without attachment.

 

Your understanding is very deep.