Egyptian Revolution

[joeblast]

"That is how it will always be until they claim their birthright by closing the Koran and opening their minds."

Change Bible instead of Koran: same problem, hundred of thousand of fanatics in all western countries...but they are "our fanatics"...

 

Without mentioning the long atrocious bloody history of Christianity (Inquisition, crusades, religious wars, native american cultural extermination,etc.etc.)

The underlying theme is the same; fundamentalism stops a mind from working. Every group has their extreme elements, but how prevalent are those elements? If you need to point to a thousand years ago to find a detrimental example, then you're grasping at straws.

 

 

As long as these peoples place value upon actual results garnered, they will make some progress. Until they get an idea of what actual results they want and what will be feasible, it will be naught but replacing the PLO with Hamas. If you are too driven by ideology then you will not achieve results because you have ignored empiricism in favor of ideology.

[Ulises]

The underlying theme is the same; fundamentalism stops a mind from working. Every group has their extreme elements, but how prevalent are those elements? If you need to point to a thousand years ago to find a detrimental example, then you're grasping at straws.

 

 

As long as these peoples place value upon actual results garnered, they will make some progress. Until they get an idea of what actual results they want and what will be feasible, it will be naught but replacing the PLO with Hamas. If you are too driven by ideology then you will not achieve results because you have ignored empiricism in favor of ideology.

 

 

I'm pointing to a thousand yeas ago to show the continuity of the terrifying history of Christianity to this day, including the continous abuse of indigenous people everywhere by christian "missionaries" TODAY:

the increasing, psychotic christian fundamentalism could be a serious threat in our western countries in the near future:

 

This is a sad resonant example of the spiritual/cultural genocide inflicted on us, European indigenous people (we enjoyed a spirituality very similar to the Native american), by the Imperial Church of Rome : native people infected with the mind virus of christian intolerance ("the one and only road to 'salvation' ")

http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2011/02/free-to-be-intolerant-christian-crees-tear-down-sweat-lodge/

 

As we know in psychology, the abused victims tend to become abusers...

We, westerners, did among us (European religious wars), first, and in the Americas (an American holocaust), later, what was done to us by the Roman Empire with its "spiritual" branch...and this continues today in more or less covert ways

Edited February 14, 2011 by Ulises

[zen-bear]

If it wasn't a military coup, who exactly played the role in the transferring of power? The people? The news?

 

Believe what you want but at the core mechanics of power transfer, it was the military that did it. The people may have been a loud voice but it was the military that was running the show. All your melodrama and quotes can't dent that fact.

 

 

 

The fact remains that the military did not instigate the popular revolt in the streets of Cairo. Every journalist on the scene there can confirm this fact. The instigating force of the Egyptian revolution--as it was in Tunisia and as it will be in Yemen when it revolts for change--is hundreds of thousands of citizens in the streets (including uniformed soldiers) for 3 weeks (and still continuing) who brought about the ouster of Mubarek.

 

What "show" was the Egyptian military running during the past 3 weeks?

Yes, the military is now in control of the country for the next 6 months and it says it will oversea the transfer of power. But it did not instigate the deposing of Mubarek.

 

As for what you call "my melodrama", your blaspheming the I Ching oracle with your know-it-all-pessimism combined with your vain worship of military conspiratorial oppression where it doesn't even exist will accelerate your karma to its natural fruition.

 

Have a great life.

 

Terence Dunn

Edited February 14, 2011 by zen-bear

[Ulises]

We are not free. Yes, in Europe and most of the Americas we have formal democracy, but we are slaves to corporations of any kind (political, religious and the like)

What if we remembered our ancestors...? Something similar to what happened in Egypt, but in a cultural spiritual level could happen to us...a colective soul retrieval. In fact I think it already is happening now...

 

http://www.futureprimitive.org/2008/09/remembering-ancestors-martin-prechtel/

http://www.futureprimitive.org/2011/02/eliot-cowan-the-song-of-the-world/

Edited February 14, 2011 by Ulises

[johndoe2012]

If you are too driven by ideology then you will not achieve results because you have ignored empiricism in favor of ideology.

 

yes, this was clearly shown by the US in the latest Iraqi war and disappearances done by the CIA to eg. Egypt and other dictatorships.

[Ulises]

"As the protestors took over Tahrir Square in Cairo, I felt I wanted to tune in to see what information might be available from inner colleagues. I was thinking I might communicate with a spiritual being attuned to the Egyptian people but instead I found myself in contact with a Presence that seemed like an 'Angel of Humanity.' This Presence said in effect, 'What is happening here is part of a process that goes beyond Egypt and its concerns. It is a human occurrence. It is one expression, conditioned by the circumstances of the Middle East, of an unfoldment that all humanity is experiencing, not just Egyptians or Arabs. This is the most important thing to know.' (...)

 

In December of 1963, the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. gave a talk at Western Michigan University on the theme of social justice and the emerging new age. In it he said:

 

"All I'm saying is simply this, that all life is interrelated, that somehow we're caught in an inescapable network of mutuality tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly affects all indirectly. For some strange reason, I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality."

 

This thought by Dr. King catches the sense of what this Angel was implying, but there was more to it even than this. It was, I think, an invitation to see ourselves as revolutionaries in the context of seeking to overthrow oppressive and limiting thought forms and ways of thinking.

 

We, of course, are focused on the physical realm; it is the environment most apparent and immediate to all of us. But our colleagues and helpers in the spiritual realms deal with the invisible environment of subtle energies, thoughts and feelings. This environment can be every bit as oppressive as a tyrant; it can be every bit as harmful as a department of secret police. Certainly it can’t cause us physical pain and suffering, at least not directly, but it’s this environment that in its polluted and negative states gives rise to and energizes such physical phenomena such as tyrants and secret police, torture and terrorism, murder and mayhem. It’s this environment that can hold beliefs and thought forms that limit our conceptions of ourselves, that blind us to the wholeness of the earth, that make us doubt the goodness of the earth and the presence of the Sacred.

 

It is the oppression of this inner tyranny of ancient and outworn thoughts, emotions, habits, and beliefs that all of us, all of humanity, is now struggling against, like a butterfly trying to break out of a cocoon. We are all being called to make our way to the Tahrir Square of our minds and hearts, there to stand together and demand the old ways step down so a new humanity may emerge.

 

The world and we revolve around this pivot point of history in search of a new and better tomorrow, demanding creative and holistic change. The Revolution is upon us! What inner tyrannies will you overthrow today?"

David Spangler

http://www.lorian.org/davidspage.html#gpm1_2

Edited February 14, 2011 by Ulises

[Lucky7Strikes]

[zen-bear]

To All:

 

Here is good summary about what forces in the Egyptian population drove Mubarek out of power.

 

 

http://www.fastcompany.com/1727844/gen-y-rising-why-china-should-fear-the-egyptian-revolution

 

Again, NOT the military, but primarily the Gen Y demographic--educated and middle class but without prospects because of dire economic circumstances and govt. corruption. A very interesting dynamic took place that could similarly drive other countries in the region to do the same.

 

This is current event news. Nothing esoteric and not rocket science. Easily accessible. for great news leads, follow someone like niubi.com on Twitter.

 

the Chinese have a saying that a frog at the bottom of the well looks up and sees only so much of the sky.

 

To some: Read about the world and get out of the well, and know your facts before spewing nonstop nonesense and neurotic venom.

[VCraigP]

excerpts from an essay I mostly but not completely agreed with,

 

would appreciate it if the source were attributed..

 

Craig

[VCraigP]

I like clarity. This is difficult to attain from TV news.

 

I think the following is accurate

1. Egypt was and is a Military dictatorship.

2. Mubarek was the target and symbol of the oppression of the Egyptian people by the military dictatorship. The mob which demanded change in their country focused on FIRST having him removed. This protest was "allowed" to happen by the Military which chose not to act against it's own people.

 

IMO the removal of Mubarek has not changed the power structure of the country at all. The military is still in charge. I believe they will do all they can to create the illusion of a democratic process. Whether the people will be able to achieve any further progress in that direction is certainly an open question.

 

There are some questions I believe American citizens should be asking themselves.

Do we support democracy? Do we agree with policy which grants billions to oppressive governments because it supports our goals in the region?

 

If one takes the view that America has the right through economic and military might to achieve whatever advantage we deem necessary then we must also understand that our support of oppression WILL have a negative impact on others which will result in resentment and hatred of American policies and perhaps of American people and our way of life.

 

It is historical fact that we have supported the overthrow of democratically elected governments which policies did not reflect our interest in a region. We have propped up dictatorships throughout the world. Did these actions advance American and Multinational corporate interests? Certainly.

 

As an American (and I know not all reading this will be Americans) you must view historical facts and global political reality with as much clarity as possible.

 

Are American actions justified? Can we be an example to the world of a successful democracy while still engaging the world in the ways described above? Are we truly a democracy? Can we promote freedom and liberty within our borders and work to deny it outside our borders?

 

The inconvenient truth is that without taking these actions American interests would not have been protected. The result of not engaging the world in this way would no doubt have led to a tremendously different America and world. However it is incumbent upon US Citizens to KNOW what is being done in our name. This is in my view the most dangerous aspect of America in the world. Our populace is largely IGNORANT of what we are doing outside our borders, and IMO are intentionally kept ignorant by those in power who mostly hold the opinion that citizens can never be told everything as they would not make the right decisions about international affairs and protecting their own interests.

 

I attempt to maintain my neutrality while making the above statements and just encourage all to view things as they are and minimize one's projections.

 

It would be simple to just agree that the popular uprising in Egypt is a good thing and that our support of a dictator for 30 years is a bad thing. I basically DO feel that way, but the world would be a far different place I feel if we had not used Egyptian cooperation to stabalize the region. Cooperation which would not have been forthcoming IMO had we not bought and paid for it with massive military support.

 

It is nice to contemplate what the world would look like if we ALWAYS insisted on supporting democracy and overthrowing tyrants, and if we insisted on extending our laws and constitutional principles in all dealings done outside our borders. Wouldn't that be nice. while we're at it, wouldn't it be nice if we had no standing army and no nuclear arms. Wouldn't it be nice if we had cradle to grave healthcare and free schooling up to graduate level too?

 

Sorry, just daydreaming now.

 

Wishing for clear vision to all.

 

Craig

[joeblast]

would appreciate it if the source were attributed..

 

Craig

Yeah, probably should have, but there were enough point of contention that I just took excerpts - I dont recall where it was from at the moment but if I come across it I will post it up.

 

imho, its an issue when a religion purports itself to be the highest law of the land even at the expressed foregoing of the already accepted laws of the land. It is simply a recipe for fundamentalism and zealotry, not to mention abuse of power by the theocracy.

 

As if everyone else's leaders didnt abuse the crap out of their power, too. (for the most part)

 

[Marblehead]

Well, the revolution in Egypt was no bloodless. According to the NYTimes the body count is now 365. But still, that's not too bad (well, except for those and the families of those who paid the ultimate price).