On Warriorship

[thaddeus]

Edited June 13, 2006 by thaddeus

[neimad]

On warriorship...a warrior is nothing without a war..what's the war?

 

the war is against the matrix or machine or system.... maya.... the collective illusion we hold so dear. it is our worthy opponent and it's trap provides the putrification that allows us to transform. just like the symbology of the yin and the yang we are in a constant struggle (or flow to use less violent language) for harmony..... i see the yin-yang as being multi-dimensional however, like a spiral.... ever upwards till eternity or nothingness.

 

there is a battle raging and there is no time, death is constantly at our shoulder.

 

 

 

thank you for your words freeform and cloud. the warrior is where i am at now because this is the discipline and determination i am using to fuel my journey. embracing this is embracing deficiencies in myself and letting go of the cowardly pathetic human being i was.

i am aware that the warrior is just another illusion.... and when the time is right i like to think i will have no second thoughts on letting him die also, but for now i will use this personality.... just in the manner you outlined, freeform. as a verb rather than a noun.

 

about parents. identifying with parents is just that, creating an identity. it's becoming a 'noun' to use freeforms metaphor again. "i am the son of margaret"..... but it's false. i am the son of nothing and everything. my father provided essence to fertilise the egg of my mother who transformed energy to nurture me. but i am built out of universal energy and to it i will return, and not to my parents.

eventually to truly find liberation and freedom one will have to remove all ties to the world, including ones parents. it does not mean, however, that one cannot "pretend to care" (exercising controlled folly).

 

last night i discussed this with my mother, and even from a buddhist perspective she could agree. she knows that eventually for her self if she wants to go where she wants to go she will have to give up attachment to me.... although it's something she is very reluctant to think about.

 

 

 

so for those of you who have been curious enough about my previous comments to get involved with my path, thats where i am at.... the utterly useless pursuit of escaping the matrix. i have nothing else to do with my life, i have nothing else to live for and i embrace the path eagerly, more so than ever before. i am determined to succeed and aware at the same time that it means nothing.

 

ahhh the paradox. i am so comforted by it.

[cloud recluse]

 

On warriorship...a warrior is nothing without a war..what's the war?

T

 

Ok,this DEFINETELY needs its own thread Lots of contrasting opinions (hopefully).Whose game ?

 

Regards,Cloud

[Lozen]

hey warrior,

what kinda weapons ya got?? just wondering.

yael

[neimad]

hey warrior,

what kinda weapons ya got?? just wondering.

yael

 

laughter.

detachment - controlled folly.

vigiliance.

determination.

discipline.

impeccability.

 

and the processes of:

stalking.

recapitulation.

gathering energy.

building physical health/strength.

refining non-thought (that is: removing thought with words).

embracing the present.

 

 

and so on....

[freeform]

Ok,this DEFINETELY needs its own thread Lots of contrasting opinions (hopefully).Whose game ?

 

Regards,Cloud

 

I think Sean's gotta split this thread into a new one.

 

SEAN!! <-- (shouting face)... could you seperate this post up for us please!!

[thaddeus]

laughter.

detachment - controlled folly.

vigiliance.

determination.

discipline.

impeccability.

 

and the processes of:

stalking.

recapitulation.

gathering energy.

building physical health/strength.

refining non-thought (that is: removing thought with words).

embracing the present.

and so on....

I think it's an interesting process you're going through..my humble input would be to find your own words...don't mouth other people's words...for example, the castaneda references. Do you really understand stalking and recapitulation? If so great, use your own words to describe your path so people can get you. Which incidentaly (suddenly i can't spell) is the feeling i got from reading the cohen website..what the f* is he really trying to say and is it authentic..sound bites suck...authentic words are inspiring..

Another point is you seem to be rationalizing using people as a form of ruthlessness. Again Castaneda spoke of cunning (and i'm not a castaneda guy by any means, i'm just familiar with his stuff). To be so brash and uncaring is to bring on an early demise. Those type of people have a way of getting wiped out by other people who feel slighted or just annoyed. You need to be able to survive as well. Not sure if that makes sense. We may rail against the matrix as you call it, but we do need to live in it for now.

T

[turbo]

Really man, the path out of the "matrix" may take determination and fire, as you are certianly showing, to get started, but in the long run all that talk wont get you all that far down the path. Once you begin to realize the depth of people's delusion (including your own) you begin to feel sorry for them and at this point you may realize that a path of service and love are the way to go. Sitting in a cave may not allow you to burn off all of your karma in one lifetime. Being selfish for the sake of selfishness will limit you. Meditation and other liberating practices may seem selfish from the outside and even at the outset along the path, however they are not. The attitude they induce, the happiness they create help not only the meditator, but those around him/her. Putting good vibes in circulation helps the entire world with its collective liberation. So dont fight for yourself, if you are truly going to be a warrior take a cause worth fighting for - the world's libeation. Then you may become a Sammasambuddha.

[neimad]

when did this turn into a therapy session for me?

 

 

i see a lot of people analysing my words and providing suggestions for what i should do.... as if they know all the answers already.

it's fine, i accept that this kind of response is inevitable when someone comes out with guns blazing as i have

 

 

for anyone offering me advice... have you found liberation? have you discovered the path to freedom? have you loosened up your life and are able to live spontaneously and freely without fear or worry?

 

if so then perhaps you should be talking about your own path for the rest of us still stuck in the struggle and offering insights into why your practice and your choices lead to freedom.

 

and if you haven't.... well what then gives you the right to decide how i should or shouldn't live my life? what makes you so sure in your conviction that your path is the correct one?

are my choices intimidating or somehow conflicting with your own personal truths? if so, why?

 

for myself every day i feel freer and freer, i feel more present and content, i have more ability to laugh with abandon whenever i want. very little bothers me and i care about less. the less i care, the better i feel.

 

it sounds so harsh but where everyone goes wrong in their interpretations is that the warriors path is really a path with heart. a warrior acts selfishly the way he/she does for the greater good of all. the warrior thinks only of liberation for the self as an act to liberate all. a warriors duty is not done until all are freed.

a warrior acts only from the heart.....

 

however the heart does not "feel sorry for others", in other words... pity. this is demeaning to both a warrior (who if he/she is feeling pity, is no warrior at all) and it is demeaning to the individual receiving pity. a warrior has no energy to expend for one individuals plight as a warrior is only concerned with the plight of all.

 

 

 

i have gleaned the warriors path as it has come to me in various formats, constant affirmations. the latest affirmation came on the weekend, and it hit so hard. i discovered that i was engaged in the warriors path all along, that intuitevly i was doing all the things a warrior does. it's not just castaneda, it's ever present everywhere..... in any path that leads to truth i see the same pattern.

my vigour and determination has been stregthened by this latest affirmation that i am heading in the right direction and more than ever now i realise that this path is the only one i can bear to live. everything else is a pale shade of grey compared to the colour of the path with heart.

i don't know if i could ever fall into mundanity and be satisfied..... and so i blaze forth with fire and gusto because there is no longer any other choice.

 

 

the castaneda references i used because they are all so appropriate and make sense to me now more than ever, and i realise that before the terms even made sense i was already engaged in the process.

 

stalking is about discovering your habits, your routines and your thought patterns (i.e. your matrix program) and obliterating them, thus moving into spontenaity and in any given situation making the only choice which is not a pre-prgrammed matrix decision. stalking is about discovering the "I's" or the personalities we have taken upon us to act out as if it's who we are and killing them off, one by one.

stalking then as the warrior begins to turn into a sorcerer, becomes using the matrix for specific purposes.... kind of like manifestation i am guessing.

 

recapitulation is about going back through your whole life and discovering the meaning in all your actions. can also be likened to the process of surrender..... that is giving up attachment to the past.

it's also about discovering how the past has shaped you now, and removing that shaping influence... once again creating more freedom.

 

i am actively engaged in both these processes and was before they even made sense to me within the whole context of the warriors path.

 

however thanks for the tip on cunning, T, i have taken it on board.

 

 

 

 

how about rather than picking holes in my idea of a warrior and offering suggestions as to myself.... people can discuss their own impression of a warrior, discuss whether they believe they are truly being a warrior or even discuss that the warriors path is a flawed one and not worth following at all.

 

how many people out there really feel that they are on the path and feel with all of their being that the only thing that motivates them is to seek liberation?

how does that feel?

 

to me it feels immense and at the same time comforting. i have a purpose, and whether it's real or imaginary.... whether i succeed or i fail, i have no choice but to seek that purpose. it's utterly useless and i expect nothing as a result of my pursuit but there is nothing else to do with my time in this existence.... THERE IS NOTHING ELSE!

i feel like for the first time ever i am truly embracing this purpose and it's incredible and at the same time overwhelmingly frightening.

[TwoTrees]

Hey, Neimad,

 

if you ever write a book, I am soooo going to read it !!

 

[hagar]

If you read Trungpa, he founded a secular, non-monastic tradition when moving to the west.

 

It's main message was that of spiritual warriorship.

 

Being a warrior in his view is a mindset. And the use of the term "warrior" is rhetorical.

 

Basically, warriorship is about constantly being able to die, to be new, fresh, imperfect.

 

Something like living in the realization that the sun is new every day, and it is the size of a man's foot.

 

h

[cloud recluse]

when did this turn into a therapy session for me?

i see a lot of people analysing my words and providing suggestions for what i should do.... as if they know all the answers already.

it's fine, i accept that this kind of response is inevitable when someone comes out with guns blazing as i have

for anyone offering me advice... have you found liberation? have you discovered the path to freedom? have you loosened up your life and are able to live spontaneously and freely without fear or worry?

 

if so then perhaps you should be talking about your own path for the rest of us still stuck in the struggle and offering insights into why your practice and your choices lead to freedom.

 

and if you haven't.... well what then gives you the right to decide how i should or shouldn't live my life? what makes you so sure in your conviction that your path is the correct one?

are my choices intimidating or somehow conflicting with your own personal truths?...

 

As one who might seem like one of your would-be "analysts" I want to make something really clear.I DO NOT claim to know where you are at or the validity of what your doing!!Please do not get that idea As Ive never met you ,that would be too presumptious even for me ( I mean ive taken the title of Recluse,THATS pretty presumptious allready ).

 

Its more a personal reaction to Castaneda-esque lingo,whatever a persons interpretation of it.And thats one of the things Id be intersted to see hammered out here on this thread,given Castanedas popularisation of the term.His language often seems reminiscent of a Catholic ascetic self-hate trip with a fear of the interpersonal.So,does Castanedas "Warrior" recreate self-hate ,and what alternative concepts of Warriorship take that into account ?

 

Regards,Cloud.

 

P.S.As well as Trungpa's Shamballah stuff,has anyone read Daniele Bolelli's ON THE WARRIORS PATH ,or Peter Hobart's KISHIDO:WAY OF THE WESTERN WARRIOR?

Edited June 14, 2006 by cloud recluse

[neimad]

two trees - i will be writing eventually. i learn so much from both writing and reading.... also by talking and listening (the listening part i have only just begun to get good at... and it requires A LOT of focus to truly listen to someone, if they don't have anything meaningful to say it gets really exhausting quickly).

as soon as i get the free time i am sitting down to write out all my spiritual views in the form of science fiction

 

stay tuned.

 

 

 

cloud - i took no offense at any of the analysing and suggestions going on, i just feel that it would be more worthwhile to make this a personal (in that we each talk about our own viewpoints without trying to alter anyone elses - because as you put it none of us can know where we each are) discussion, rather than a discussion aimed around me.

 

hagar summed it up pretty nicely, as he is quickly gaining a reputation in my opinion to do so.

 

hagar says that being a warrior is about being able to die and be born again.

this is very much it.....

 

to get more sci-fi, the 'matrix' has our whole pattern mapped out. in other words for any given situation there is a finite number of responses that an individual can go with (remember that scene in the matrix movies where neo visits the architect and for everything the architect tells him, he has a response on one of the numerous tv screens around the wall.... it's like that).

in that sense an individuals life is pretty much mapped out. oh there is the possibility for variation within the map, but it's all been planned and free-will is pretty much moot.

 

a warrior, by learning to die (death of the various personalities we have taken upon us since birth - the final big death being the death of the ego) and be reborn begins to free himself from this set pattern.... the more a warrior does this, the more irrational his acts will become as he is always taking the path where there was no choice... if you get me?

 

this is where one begins to free himself from the matrix.

 

of course, it's a lot more complex than this and i'm only getting my head around it myself.

 

a warrior is simply the first step. all a warrior is is an individual that realises there is more, it's an individual that begins to see that he or she is a slave in an unfriendly system. a warrior is just an individual that begins the process of untangling him/herself from the system.

 

this is why a warriors mentality is needed because it's hard hard work and all the odds are against the warrior and death is at his shoulder and time is running out.

 

but the warrior is just the first stage.... next comes the "sorcerer", one who begins to enter the dream world and is able to move to other dimensions freely.

 

following this is the "lucid" and here we are getting to the buddhas and the krishnas. those who have quite simply broken it all and are no longer contained by rules, save those they choose to use.

 

 

 

 

but the most important point i want to make is:

 

a warrior may appear to be ruthless and uncaring, but a warrior follows the path with a heart. a warriors only concern is freeing himself from the matrix in order to help others do the same, and a warrior will do anything to achieve this goal.

 

and a warrior is the only type of human individual (the sorcerers and lucids becoming more than simply human as they break free of the matrix) that truly has a choice.

a warrior chooses to have no choice.....

 

that is, once a warrior makes the choice to be a warrior and seek liberation... there is no longer any other choice. this is all that is left. this is where i feel i am at... i no longer have any choice in the matter. to give up my path is to die.

 

[freeform]

For me the warrior path (as neimad describes it) does not resonate... for several 'reasons' (these reasons are made-up illusion-stories... maybe interesting or entertaining, but they're just stories... if you know what I mean - my simple truth is that it doesn't feel right)

 

One reason is that a warrior has to battle... a battle pre-supposes struggle... for me the warrior path is a path of struggle with 'the matrix' or 'conditioned reality' or whatever. It involves mercilessly destroying things that stand in your way... and you can only be a warrior if you're in the matrix... because once you're out; you're both a warrior and a sorcerer and a lucid and a lover and whatever...

 

This is in stark contrast to what I see as the path for me... rather than a path filled with destroying, dying and being reborn, I see my path as being full of transformation - from a caterpillar to a butterfly, from a seed to a plant, from an orgasm to a life-form... yes a warrior would say that at each stage of these transformations one needs to die to the old identity - but that's because s/he is a warrior and s/he is seeing the beautiful cycle that I'm seeing through a different set of filters.

 

Again, a warrior's path is a path of struggle - it doesn't mean it's not a 'true path' or it wont get you 'there' (where?) but it is using the matrix to focus in on a specific journey... as is my path, but I choose my path to be a path of bliss and pleasure... I think the reason you're resonating with Hagar at the moment, Neimad is because from my point of view Hagar is on the warrior journey himself... I say this from his recent posts on that law of attraction film... and ofcourse the fact that he's named after a warrior

 

I dont see why the shedding of illusions has to be a struggle - yes it may involve a lot of hard work, yes it will leave you confused and yes it may involve no work at all... in fact the pleasure in this path is to learn to stop working all together - stopping all egoic effort... which is either 'hard' or 'interesting' or 'fun' or 'exciting' - depending on how you approach it.

 

I was thinking about the noun/verb thing and remembered that Bucky Fuller always thought of himself as a verb, not a noun - very Taoist I reckon. I thought it would be usefull to stop thinking of the matrix as the enemy out there and more like a process going on in here (points to body)... I am matrixing! I am transforming, I am freeforming

[freeform]

(the listening part i have only just begun to get good at... and it requires A LOT of focus to truly listen to someone, if they don't have anything meaningful to say it gets really exhausting quickly)

 

wow neimad, I know you're not appreciating feedback at the moment, but dude - if you think people don't have anything meaningful to say, I'd have to tell you that you're not getting good at listening at all! In fact if your new ways of filterning communication is making it seem that more and more people are becoming less and less meaningfull, I'd say you're getting far worse, and creating unnecessary blockages in yourself.

 

You'd be getting 'good at listening' only when you can be fascinated and intensely curious about a 5 minute conversation on the weather... or what style of handbags are 'in' at the moment. You can learn so much about a person from the most shallow of conversations... and i can promise you that once you stop seeing them as 'meaningless' conversations, and get truly interested in the whole person (not just the sounds that are coming out of their mouth) you will find that the conversations you attract will be much more interesting.

[thaddeus]

You'd be getting 'good at listening' only when you can be fascinated and intensely curious about a 5 minute conversation on the weather... or what style of handbags are 'in' at the moment. You can learn so much about a person from the most shallow of conversations... and i can promise you that once you stop seeing them as 'meaningless' conversations, and get truly interested in the whole person (not just the sounds that are coming out of their mouth) you will find that the conversations you attract will be much more interesting.

Don't want to veer too much off topic, but this is an interesting idea that I've been thinking about lately. I'm also learning to appreciate the spaces between things. For example, in relationships, it's certainly about each person you meet along the way, but another fascinating time to appreciate is the spaces between relationships. We do alot of growing during that too...same with conversations with people, not so much what is being said, but what happens between the sayings..anyway, what you said brought that out..

T

[thaddeus]

when did this turn into a therapy session for me?

Dude, this is one of those times Don Juan would laugh hysterically for 5 minutes because carlos was taking himself too seriously!

If I can speak for others, I don't think any of us are offering any advice. What you said is true, if you put something out there, you will draw comments..they are comments--not advice--just reactions. So (ok so maybe this is advice) just listen to the reactions and use it to hone your understanding.

I really like people who can give any comment on stuff I say cause it forces me to explain things better and to think deeper and also to consider other people's reactions.

 

for anyone offering me advice... have you found liberation? have you discovered the path to freedom? have you loosened up your life and are able to live spontaneously and freely without fear or worry?

 

This is also an interesting idea. For me, I'm not sure that's something I strive for or idealize. I still think I have to live with other people and other people get hurt--and that still concerns me. I think one reason I'm successfull at my job is that I fear and worry. I got alot of comfort in reading something krishnamurti said once about freedom..he said if you don't feel free, start to find times in your life you are free--like for me that was choosing a place to eat for lunch..i was free to do that..i'm free to take as much time as I want, I'm free to do anything i want after work, go to gym, go to aikido, go for drinks, so in essence I really am free. One could replace free with 'spontaneous' in that context.

Hope that makes sense..

Anyway Mr. Neimad, writing on the internet really sucks. I think you're an awesome guy, it's just hard to write out every nuance so it doesn't come off condescending or some other way. So I hope you understand me.

T

[neimad]

i'll just start with saying that i don't resent nor do i have any problems with suggestions or advice given to me..... i just think it would be more worthwhile for all if we were to discuss things about our own point of view rather than picking too much at someone elses. this way we can come to agreements about where we stand, rather than get lost in misunderstandings and silly semantics.

 

One reason is that a warrior has to battle... a battle pre-supposes struggle... for me the warrior path is a path of struggle with 'the matrix' or 'conditioned reality' or whatever. It involves mercilessly destroying things that stand in your way... and you can only be a warrior if you're in the matrix... because once you're out; you're both a warrior and a sorcerer and a lucid and a lover and whatever...

 

This is in stark contrast to what I see as the path for me... rather than a path filled with destroying, dying and being reborn, I see my path as being full of transformation - from a caterpillar to a butterfly, from a seed to a plant, from an orgasm to a life-form... yes a warrior would say that at each stage of these transformations one needs to die to the old identity - but that's because s/he is a warrior and s/he is seeing the beautiful cycle that I'm seeing through a different set of filters.

 

Again, a warrior's path is a path of struggle - it doesn't mean it's not a 'true path' or it wont get you 'there' (where?) but it is using the matrix to focus in on a specific journey... as is my path, but I choose my path to be a path of bliss and pleasure... I think the reason you're resonating with Hagar at the moment, Neimad is because from my point of view Hagar is on the warrior journey himself... I say this from his recent posts on that law of attraction film... and ofcourse the fact that he's named after a warrior

 

I dont see why the shedding of illusions has to be a struggle - yes it may involve a lot of hard work, yes it will leave you confused and yes it may involve no work at all... in fact the pleasure in this path is to learn to stop working all together - stopping all egoic effort... which is either 'hard' or 'interesting' or 'fun' or 'exciting' - depending on how you approach it.

 

freeform, i don't know if you are aware but you just outlined the warriors path but using 'nice' language rather than 'violent' language.

 

the analogy of the caterpillar to butterfly is a very important one for the warrior. a caterpillar has enough of it's existance of being a caterpillar... at this stage it builds a coccoon and within it rots, ferments and putrifies down into liquid. from the putrid liquid eventually emerges a butterfly....

 

this is where we are at. a warrior is a caterpillar that recognises the need to transform. by doing so realises it is within a coccoon (the matrix) and within it rots and putrifies (destroys all attachment to past and future) to eventually emerge as a butterfly (sorcerer).

 

a warrior struggles to be free of struggle (paradoxical to the end!). to this end a warrior must be determined, disciplined and ever vigiliant. anything worthwhile requires hard work, this does not mean it cannot be enjoyable, it does not mean one must suffer within it.... it just requires passion and an unbending intent.

anyone who believes that 'flow' or the 'tao' or effortlesness will just come to them like that without the need to commit to achieving it, is fooling themselves. this is where our practice comes in. this is why we meditate, why we discuss our spirituality (as much as possible), why we focus on our health. all of these are a means, they are our hard work.

oh despite the grubbiness and violence that comes attached with the word "warrior", the path is only that of bliss and joy. a warrior begins to recognise all the false trappings of the matrix and realises that none of them ever lead to true bliss or joy.... only by ridding oneself of all attachment to this illusion can one really begin to experience the infinite bliss that exists.

 

a warrior goes to battle with the matrix aware that it is his 'worthy opponent'. that is the matrix is both the warriors best friend and worst enemy. the matrix allows the oppurtunity for the warrior to evolve.... it is the testing ground, seperating the strong from the weak. the weak remain asleep.... trapped within the matrix. the strong struggle and evolve (transform if you will) and so become the next step. to that extent the matrix is necessary and there is no hatred or resentment towards it. the matrix is just a small process within the infinite spiral of conscioussness back up to union with god (end of the hyper-dimensional universe - end of existance).

 

to this extent a warrior understands that it's all useless, that this whole journey really leads nowhere. that eventually it ends as it began... as nothingness. yet there is nothing else, there IS NO OTHER PURPOSE.

 

i wonder if some of you guys out there are beginning to get it? that by being on this board.... by questioning your existance and taking some steps to discover truth.... YOU ARE A WARRIOR! that is all a warrior is, that who becomes aware there is more and takes action to discover what it is.

the problem is... there is no time. there is no time to be complacent. yet everything needs to occur in it's due order. there is no time yet one cannot make haste.

death stalks us constantly (using death as an advisor).

 

i feel i have embraced this fully and as a result i am intensley focused on my path. but still, i come back here to this job to this fake life and i can feel myself already falling alseep.... so on my walls i have reminders. so i come here and be reminded by the other participants. so i continue to practice and think of nothing else.

constant vigiliance because the second one lowers his guard... thats it, the matrix nabs you!

 

wow neimad, I know you're not appreciating feedback at the moment, but dude - if you think people don't have anything meaningful to say, I'd have to tell you that you're not getting good at listening at all! In fact if your new ways of filterning communication is making it seem that more and more people are becoming less and less meaningfull, I'd say you're getting far worse, and creating unnecessary blockages in yourself.

 

You'd be getting 'good at listening' only when you can be fascinated and intensely curious about a 5 minute conversation on the weather... or what style of handbags are 'in' at the moment. You can learn so much about a person from the most shallow of conversations... and i can promise you that once you stop seeing them as 'meaningless' conversations, and get truly interested in the whole person (not just the sounds that are coming out of their mouth) you will find that the conversations you attract will be much more interesting.

 

again a misunderstanding.

when someone is discussing spirituality (warriorship) then i can relax and concentrate on their words... i can use my ears (something that i'm used to using) and it's not very exhausting.

 

when someone is discussing the weather or handbags (matrix talk - and yes, it is meaningless and designed just to keep us asleep), their words are meaningless and of little value. so i have to exert myself by using my extra-sensory faculties and listen to their non-verbal communications, to find out what they are saying as a person.... as this is something newer to me and has not been exercised as much, i get exhausted a lot quicker. i use this as an exercise in observation.

 

once again though, thank you for instantly assuming the worst of me. if we are getting at each others patterns.... well it's one i have found coming frequently from you. that you feel you know exactly where someone is at and that you have the perfect solution to help them out, and no it hasn't just been aimed at me only.

 

 

start to find times in your life you are free--like for me that was choosing a place to eat for lunch..i was free to do that..i'm free to take as much time as I want, I'm free to do anything i want after work, go to gym, go to aikido, go for drinks, so in essence I really am free. One could replace free with 'spontaneous' in that context.

 

is that really freedom?

i'm sorry but don't you see the trap in your words.... that after work you are free to do anything you want...??? you are held by a job, i.e. a need to fulfill some security in your life (food, money, sex).

to me, thats not freedom.... not by a long shot.

and it's not even close to spontenaity.

 

Anyway Mr. Neimad, writing on the internet really sucks. I think you're an awesome guy, it's just hard to write out every nuance so it doesn't come off condescending or some other way. So I hope you understand me.

T

 

i'm just a kid... no "mr" for me

 

i think all of you are awesome and i do have nothing but respect for anyone who has the courage to embrace the path to liberation.

 

know that nothing any of you can write can offend me, so if anyone really feels drawn to attack me... go for it. but as i stated at the beginning, i just think it would be more productive for all of us if people kept it directed at themselves rather than projecting it out onto others.

[freeform]

freeform, i don't know if you are aware but you just outlined the warriors path but using 'nice' language rather than 'violent' language.

 

hehe... yes I do realise that... that's why I said:

 

yes a warrior would say that at each stage of these transformations one needs to die to the old identity - but that's because s/he is a warrior and s/he is seeing the beautiful cycle that I'm seeing through a different set of filters.

 

I think every archetypal energy leads to the same goal, but the approach, the journey, the process is framed differently... A joker/prankster will find the ellsuive obvious completely absurd and laugh hir head off, a wiseman will philosophise about it, a warrior will fight it, a lover will fuck it... but in the end the result is pretty much the same, it's just the process that brings you there is different. I am envious in a way because at this time I dont really associate strongly with any one of these archetypes, but I jump between them... seeing the same scene from different angles... I dont have the drive and devotion that you've found in the warrior archetype, but I do have a relaxed awareness of it, and I'm enjoying it!

 

Do you think that someone identified with the warrior archetype frames other people's behaviours as that of a warrior (or the opposite)? Do you think that a prankster does the same? For me that's facinating...

 

once again though, thank you for instantly assuming the worst of me.

 

dude - there's no value judgment in whatever feedback I give to people. And I'm suggesting that it's usefull not to place value judgements on what people say.

 

IMO there is no extra effort required to notice the non-verbal aspect of someone's conversation... you do it all the time anyway... to be honest even if someone's speaking about meaningfull 'stuff' I still track their non-verbal communication, because that's where all the interesting stuff is. In fact noticing this stuff, for me, means I have to relax and let it become apparent, rather than 'looking for it'.

 

I'm sure you already realise that I've got a great respect for you, Neimad...

 

I'm in no way trying to be confrontational... but posts like these involve (and in a way require) some kind of emotional tension... I think the dry information contained is secondary to the emotional energy exchanged... so you cant be surprised at people's reaction, and at your own reaction to people's posts...

[neimad]

i have respect for you too and i understand that you have no intent to be confrontational, as neither do i.

 

however as i have chosen to be a warrior, i feel obliged to speak my mind without fear of what another thinks, or shame or worry for hurting anothers feelings.... and so i have been, as likely you have also. and at the same time regardless of what you or anyone else says i will not take offense (indignation... popular sin, that one!). i merely pointed out how your typing comes across..... but please continue to write your mind openly and i will continue to react.... cos really, we are getting somewhere huh?

 

thats incredibly interesting about the archetypes though.... i hadn't honestly considered it like that.

 

for me i would frame anothers actions as the actions of a warrior.... that is if i can see they are on the same path (and regardless of their archetype, if they are on the path i will see it).

 

however i don't believe in distinguishing it like that..... to truly go all the way, all those archetypes must be encompassed and i've just chosen the word "warrior" to describe that (cos it sounds cool!).

 

this is why one of my favorite affirmations is "i am a warrior. a king (wise man?). a lover. a clown"

 

a warrior personality is needed to stalk the energy, to be vigilant and focused, determined and disciplined. to have an unwavering intent and the ability to be totally ruthless when necessary.

 

a king (wise man) personality is needed to discover what exactly the knowledge is that is sought and how to turn this into power (lead into gold).

 

a lover personality is needed to appreciate the beauty of it all. to conquer sexual desire and bend it to his will. to make sex an act of energy and hence power. to bring out the creativity (i see a lover as also being an artist) and use it in a beautiful, exploratory manner.

 

a clown personality is needed so that one does not lose himself in the seriousness of the matter at hand. to laugh at the world and be light and fleetfooted. laughter and a sense of humour is probably one of the most potent weapons in our arsenal.

 

 

i truly feel i am beginning to encompass more fully all of these personalities.

 

my drive and devotion come from the realisation that i truly have nothing else to live for. there is nothing else worthwhile.... no longer do i even think a relationship with a woman could satisfy this urge (splinter in my head, or as can also be called "the navigator") to find union (yoga).

 

in other words i've made the only choice that we ever really have. that is, i've made the choice to have no choice.

 

 

 

as per 'listening'. well the reason meaningless conversations expend more energy is that i have to hold myself to be interested whereas all i really want to do is just walk away and not bother myself with it. as such i treat it as an exercise (building my observation muscles). and i am new to the whole non-verbal communication stuff so it really is something that hasn't been used much to hear beyond the words.

yes, i do it with meaningful conversation too.... but it's easier because i am already interested.

 

and then there is the matrix trap of just patiently waiting your turn to talk (which is the way most people listen, i think).... which i am really beginning to steer clear of.

[neimad]

[Todd]

[hagar]

Interesting topic.

 

On fearlessness:

In my practice, I have struggled alot with the need to disengage, or keeping the world at an arms length. Or basically wanting to live a "contemplative" life disentangled with the hustle, noise, nitty-gritty details of a life in society. I basically wanted to find a way to become a monk. This is the opposite path of one based on warriorship. Warriorship is accepting that you are already in a state of choicelessness. And when I accepted that, I got quite scared. Very much the opposite of fearlessness, I thought. Instead of disengaging, freedom can come when you don't reject anything. And I guess I realized I rejected the world in a sense.

 

But maybe fearlessness I something else? Maybe it is intrinsic to engaging in the world, involving in life situations, other people, things, possessions, activities. Embracing the aspects of life that are filled with sameness. Then, perhaps it's possible to step beyond the world. Fearlessness is accepting that you are in a state of fear. There is so many things we are afraid of. I think not accepting that is living in delusion. Fearlessness is trusting the groundlessness of every situation. That there is really nothing there to hold on to.

But the flip side of that is that there is a reality. There are real people, with real lives. And that we live in this world with only our actions. And they are also very real.

 

There was this story in one Zen or Taois book I read (can't remember) of a monk who got chased by a tiger to the edge of a cliff. Trying to dodge the tiger, he slipped and fell over the edge, but as he fell, he grabbed a strawberry that was growing on the edge. The story ends by him falling towards the ground as he eats the strawberry, tastes it and thinks: "Ah, how delicious!"

 

Wow. I see I have become very serious. Must stop that. I handed in my thesis today, and really live in fear. And I guess I haven't slept in a week, so explains the seriousness... Everything will probably pick up when watching the Soccer Word Championships, with a beer in hand. =)

 

h

[neimad]

 

 

fearlessness is not disengaging.... rather it is engaging even more fully!

 

it is to learn to act with abondon.

 

however fear is useful as a motivator.... fear of one's death motivates one to accept head on that one will die, and that it's not some distant possibility... it WILL happen, and much sooner than we could possibly account for.

 

knowing this a warrior can let go of all other fears, namely the fear of what someone else thinks of you.... this is the most common fear, along with the fears of not having enough to eat, not having enough money, not being able to find a lover/connection (sex).

 

the problem with most people is that they are afraid of the wrong things.

[rex]

On warriorship...a warrior is nothing without a war..what's the war?

 

Just a bunch of rhetorical questions and ideas really, though comments welcome:

 

Isn't being a warrior about defending boundaries (at various levels) and also living by some value system designed to protect something greater than themselves? Values stop them throwing their weight around and abusing their power (hopefully). Is there a qualitative difference between a warrior, a soldier and a mercenary? Can someone be more than one of these at the same time?

 

There's also another sense of being a warrior where you don't have to be anything overtly martial or macho. It more about conduct and attitude in the face of challenge and adversity. In this respect I think of mothers in war zones who constantly rebuild the hearth fire after each bombing raid. Now that's courage and tenacity. As Hemmingway said 'Life, you loose. The only thing that counts is how you conduct yourself while you're being destroyed'.

Edited June 15, 2006 by rex