Terribly Confused

[buck]

Let me begin by apologizing for my ignorance.

 

I am new here and know next to nothing about Taoism aside from what I have read on the Internet and a couple of books (The Complete Idiot's Guide to Taoism and The Truth of Tao by Alex Anatole, the latter of which left me completely baffled). Since I registered here I have been reading through a lot of the posts and I have seen topics ranging from Tarot to Qabalah to Ritual Magic(k) to Martial Arts and so on. My confusion probably stems from a childhood of very fundamentalist Christian teachings, then as an adult to Jodo Shinshu Buddhism. Both have very firm "boundaries", for lack of a better term, basically meaning "you have to believe this---you cannot do that". But I do not like that sort of thing since it makes me feel fenced in.

 

I guess my main question would be along the line of "Is following Taoism akin to following your own tao (or Way)"? Or is there some set of guidelines that you "have to believe this--don't do that" sort of thing.

 

I ask because I honestly want to learn, and when I am honest with myself I found that I don't like the "fenced in" feeling of so many religions/belief systems (at least the ones I am familiar with). I find myself at a month away from being 45 yrs old not really knowing where to turn. I have a wonderful wife and 3 sons, I am a lucky man... but I feel something is missing spiritually if that makes any sense.

[Maddie]

Yea it makes a lot of sense to me. I also did my time in the fundamentalist Xtian thing also and that was all about being "fenced in". But yea Taoism is pretty much one of the philosophies with the least amounts of do's and don'ts, and yes it is about about finding your Tao, or your way. I also read that book by master Anatole and found it very interesting, and yes I had to read it several times and still feel like that I would benefit reading it more, its rather deep, unfortunately I lost my copy of it.

In regards to that feeling of missing something spiriutally I believe its yourself telling yourself that you need to find your tao ;-)

[buck]

Yea it makes a lot of sense to me. I also did my time in the fundamentalist Xtian thing also and that was all about being "fenced in". But yea Taoism is pretty much one of the philosophies with the least amounts of do's and don'ts, and yes it is about about finding your Tao, or your way. I also read that book by master Anatole and found it very interesting, and yes I had to read it several times and still feel like that I would benefit reading it more, its rather deep, unfortunately I lost my copy of it.

In regards to that feeling of missing something spiriutally I believe its yourself telling yourself that you need to find your tao ;-)

 

Thank you! I agree I need to find my tao or way. Now I just have to figure out how to do that.

[Red Pheonix]

Let me begin by apologizing for my ignorance.

 

I am new here and know next to nothing about Taoism aside from what I have read on the Internet and a couple of books (The Complete Idiot's Guide to Taoism and The Truth of Tao by Alex Anatole, the latter of which left me completely baffled). Since I registered here I have been reading through a lot of the posts and I have seen topics ranging from Tarot to Qabalah to Ritual Magic(k) to Martial Arts and so on. My confusion probably stems from a childhood of very fundamentalist Christian teachings, then as an adult to Jodo Shinshu Buddhism. Both have very firm "boundaries", for lack of a better term, basically meaning "you have to believe this---you cannot do that". But I do not like that sort of thing since it makes me feel fenced in.

 

I guess my main question would be along the line of "Is following Taoism akin to following your own tao (or Way)"? Or is there some set of guidelines that you "have to believe this--don't do that" sort of thing.

 

I ask because I honestly want to learn, and when I am honest with myself I found that I don't like the "fenced in" feeling of so many religions/belief systems (at least the ones I am familiar with). I find myself at a month away from being 45 yrs old not really knowing where to turn. I have a wonderful wife and 3 sons, I am a lucky man... but I feel something is missing spiritually if that makes any sense.

 

You'll end up with a few different responses to this sort of question which is a good thing; everyone experiences their path in their own way. 2 people can walk the exact same path and have 2 different experiences that may even seem to conflict with each other... that's our world though; experienced through a multitude of observers. I'll share some of my experience with you though.

 

With respect to the Tao; my path was through Internal Kung Fu. Most Kung Fu can be segregated into Buddhist or Taoist Kung Fu, many of the techniques are the same, however the philosophy is not. My experience in the Tao came mostly from shutting up and doing, that's how a lot of it happens. For me, it's a combination of mind, body and spiritual growth that's found by practicing both the external (kung fu) and the internal (meditation). I always thought of mind/body/spirit as something that was separate before, but now feel as if I am a more whole entity through their unification. I think that Tai Chi and meditation is an excellent place to start, it's a long journey. I can't really see a person understanding the Tao without practicing Kung Fu (to include meditation, qi gong and nei gong), but that is only my perspective.

 

With respect to spirituality; learn to meditate if you want to be closer to God; if you want to hear him speak then realize that you do not know and leave room inside of yourself so that you can receive. For myself, God is a living entity that is quite available if you are. God's energy is felt in everything, all I have to do is go outside, close my eyes and I'll instantly be sedated with the majesty that surrounds me. Through internal practices you can cultivate new spiritual gifts which are quite beautiful. For instance, I cultivated the Golden Flower through internal Taoist practices; it never turned on when I was practicing to cultivate it, but it turns on sometimes when I'm praying for someone. To me, this is a grand illustration of the divine law found in our universe. How beautiful and perfectly natural is it for this to activate when I am helping my brother/sister... a spinning light opens in the spirit world and I am consumed by the Tao. In my efforts to cultivate such things I've learned so much about myself, meditation is a tool that will help you to look inside and let go of those things which have bound you.

 

This place can be a little extra confusing because you'll ask a question then get a bunch of answers from people who follow Hindu or Buddhist religions. The people here are kind and accepting to large degrees and it's good to have such an open format, but in my opinion you cannot be mixing yoga and Taoist cultivation; in some cases it's dangerous to do so (energetically speaking). In each thread you'll constantly have to distinguish between the Taoists, Buddhists and Yogis, but in the end this is the place to get a lot of great information

[buck]

You'll end up with a few different responses to this sort of question which is a good thing; everyone experiences their path in their own way. 2 people can walk the exact same path and have 2 different experiences that may even seem to conflict with each other... that's our world though; experienced through a multitude of observers. I'll share some of my experience with you though.

 

With respect to the Tao; my path was through Internal Kung Fu. Most Kung Fu can be segregated into Buddhist or Taoist Kung Fu, many of the techniques are the same, however the philosophy is not. My experience in the Tao came mostly from shutting up and doing, that's how a lot of it happens. For me, it's a combination of mind, body and spiritual growth that's found by practicing both the external (kung fu) and the internal (meditation). I always thought of mind/body/spirit as something that was separate before, but now feel as if I am a more whole entity through their unification. I think that Tai Chi and meditation is an excellent place to start, it's a long journey. I can't really see a person understanding the Tao without practicing Kung Fu (to include meditation, qi gong and nei gong), but that is only my perspective.

 

With respect to spirituality; learn to meditate if you want to be closer to God; if you want to hear him speak then realize that you do not know and leave room inside of yourself so that you can receive. For myself, God is a living entity that is quite available if you are. God's energy is felt in everything, all I have to do is go outside, close my eyes and I'll instantly be sedated with the majesty that surrounds me. Through internal practices you can cultivate new spiritual gifts which are quite beautiful. For instance, I cultivated the Golden Flower through internal Taoist practices; it never turned on when I was practicing to cultivate it, but it turns on sometimes when I'm praying for someone. To me, this is a grand illustration of the divine law found in our universe. How beautiful and perfectly natural is it for this to activate when I am helping my brother/sister... a spinning light opens in the spirit world and I am consumed by the Tao. In my efforts to cultivate such things I've learned so much about myself, meditation is a tool that will help you to look inside and let go of those things which have bound you.

 

This place can be a little extra confusing because you'll ask a question then get a bunch of answers from people who follow Hindu or Buddhist religions. The people here are kind and accepting to large degrees and it's good to have such an open format, but in my opinion you cannot be mixing yoga and Taoist cultivation; in some cases it's dangerous to do so (energetically speaking). In each thread you'll constantly have to distinguish between the Taoists, Buddhists and Yogis, but in the end this is the place to get a lot of great information

 

Thanks for the advice! The "shut up and do" you mentioned is probably what I need to do, though it's a bit difficult with so many questions swirling in my mind. I do meditate, it's a very important part of my life. I also practice Tai Chi, but I have to admit not anywhere near the level or "devotion" I do with Hapkido. I know practically nothing about nei gong, but I have heard that it is similar to the breathing/moving exercises we do in hapkido. I don't know if that's true or not, only what I have heard. Perhaps they are nothing alike.

 

The only energy work I am really familiar with is what is trained in hapkido, so I don't mix things like yoga into it (nothing against yoga, I just never could get into it). In my meditations I sometimes have insights that help me, but not often. I seem to be experiencing a particularly tumultuous period in my life where I am being forced to re-evaluate many things. It's an uncomfortable experience, but I realize (or at least tell myself) that progress/growth can be uncomfortable. Once again, thanks for the advice!

[Gerard]

Try to practice more instead of spending time reading books.

 

Daoism was born amongst the trees and high-mountain rocks while sipping tea, watching the movement of the celestial bodies and allowing that movement happening within. Taiji Quan and Baguazhang are examples of merging with those rhythmic cycles.

 

Do you have access to somone who teaches any of these two arts in your local area?

 

You can start by practicing standing meditation. Here's a free guide:

 

http://www.durkhrodchogori.com/2009/10/standing-meditation.html

 

Good luck in your new journey.

 

[buck]

Try to practice more instead of spending time reading books.

 

Daoism was born amongst the trees and high-mountain rocks while sipping tea, watching the movement of the celestial bodies and allowing that movement happening within. Taiji Quan and Baguazhang are examples of merging with those rhythmic cycles.

 

Do you have access to somone who teaches any of these two arts in your local area?

 

You can start by practicing standing meditation. Here's a free guide:

 

http://www.durkhrodchogori.com/2009/10/standing-meditation.html

 

Good luck in your new journey.

 

 

Good advice, thanks! No, unfortunately there is no longer anyone who teaches either of those arts nearby. There was a Taiji Quan teacher in a town about 40 minutes away that I used to go to quite a bit but he has moved away. Thanks for the link!

[Red Pheonix]

Good advice, thanks! No, unfortunately there is no longer anyone who teaches either of those arts nearby. There was a Taiji Quan teacher in a town about 40 minutes away that I used to go to quite a bit but he has moved away. Thanks for the link!

 

Hey Buck! I think it's a lot more about how you do a thing than what you are doing. You can do Tai Chi forms and get little benefit from them because your mind isn't in the right place. On the other end of the spectrum you can forgo Qigong and gain the same benefit from a martial practice like Bagua because of 'how' you are doing it. It's all in how we choose to observe a thing.

 

I think Gerard makes an excellent point with the standing meditation; this is a fundamental of many Kung Fu lineages. Even something as simple as Wudangs shingle palm stance brings great benefit; it also forces your mind to over ride your body which may not be able to 'endure'. When you get to the spot to where you mind doesn't care about your body's pain then you are free to experience things in a new way. Personally I enjoy the Maoshan 5 elements, I do each element for 10 minutes a piece for a total of 50 minutes of standing meditation. I also choose this because it is a solid incorporation of 5 elements which you will also find in most all Taoist Kung fu. When I post I use the timer on my iphone, I set it and place it where I cannot see it; the last thing I want is to be 'counting' the time. In the end, the energy is so intense that I love it, to be sustained in an immense magnetic force is just incredible!

 

My workout starts with stretching and Daoyin, that let's me switch from a highly active 'alpha' state of mind to a more meditative state. Even in my stretching I consider the energy and take my time, I make sure I have good posture and also a smile within. I find that my days are also better when I take some time in the mornings to stretch; it kinda sets the pace for my day and gives me a moment to remind myself of who I am before the busy day takes over. And last but not least, each day is brighter when I remember to thank God for the day and for the love that's shown to me, for showing me that love which can teach me to love even myself! That love which lifts all things and reveals our true hearts when we are willing to forgo that pride which destroys us (my experience anyhow). How beautiful, how intense, how perfect is that law, that wisdom which is love

[Marblehead]

Hi Buck,

 

Nice responses to your questions so far.

 

I really don't have anything to add at the moment except to speak to this:

 

"Is following Taoism akin to following your own tao (or Way)"?

 

The easy answer is "Yes". The hard part of the answer is finding out what your own Tao (way) truely is without including any of your illusions or delusions.

 

Happy Trails!

[manitou]

I guess my main question would be along the line of "Is following Taoism akin to following your own tao (or Way)"? Or is there some set of guidelines that you "have to believe this--don't do that" sort of thing.

 

 

 

You've got it, friend.

 

It's a process of going in to self, combined with correlating all the stuff you've read about. They merge together at some point and you'll probably find that you've adopted a little of this, a little of that. It seems like we're all a hodge podge here.

 

This is a good thing. To get out of the construct of a particular thought-bubble is essential to awareness. All the paths you've researched will add a bit of color to your painting.

 

Please join us in the Tao te Ching book studies, we're currently on chapter 23. The beauty of studying what the Sage does is it enables us to apply it to our everyday lives. This is a very valuable work.

 

Many people, when they find the Tao, are exhausted from all the various spiritual constructs s they have had to eliminate from their mindset. If that's the case, this is the time to delve into yourself in a different direction.

 

I think the easiest way to start the self-realization process is to list every negative trait you can think of (selfishness, jealousy, etc) and write down to what degree you have it. You have some of all of them, probably, if you're like the rest of us. That small action, the WILLINGNESS to admit we're not perfect, seems to start a process that continues of its own volition. It sets up a series of internal Aha!'s that will keep tunneling down for years. Ultimately it will get you to the source, where this all magically merges. the Aha's are the connect-up between your brain knowledge (research and reading) and your heart knowledge (actual experience). Be relentless on yourself and don't make excuses. It will pay off.

 

Your voice is most welcome here! Thanks for posting...

[joeblast]

The hard part of the answer is finding out what your own Tao (way) truely is without including any of your illusions or delusions.

 

 

Transform instead of discard! Recognize the illusions for what they are instead of attempting to discard them altogether...delusion is included in the tao, right?

[Encephalon]

I know practically nothing about nei gong, but I have heard that it is similar to the breathing/moving exercises we do in hapkido. I don't know if that's true or not, only what I have heard. Perhaps they are nothing alike.

 

www.neikungla.com is where I was introduced to Nei Kung and the website can be read in its entirety in ten minutes.

If you've given "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Taoism" a thorough read, you'll have a more comprehensive grasp of Taoism than most (I've got a copy and would not part with it). The fact that you already possess a martial discipline suggests that you are well on your way to becoming the Taoist ideal of the scholar/warrior.

 

I just turned 50 and started Nei Kung about the same age as you are now, and I can vouch for the benefits. Your entire nervous system, including your subconscious, will take your natural talents to a totally different level. Good luck.

[Marblehead]

Transform instead of discard! Recognize the illusions for what they are instead of attempting to discard them altogether...delusion is included in the tao, right?

 

Hehehe. Yeah, but I was speaking idealistically. And yes, I still have my illusions and delusions but I don't share them with anyone. They are all mine. Hehehe.

[2netis]

You make perfect sense to me as well. I grew up in the middle of the "Bible Belt" of the US - a fundamentalist and concrete thinking womb of all that is birthed literal and therefore stilborn. At about age 7, I mentioned that I thought I was just like Jesus to my grandmother. I was quite proud of the notion and I instantly got my mouth washed out with soap for my trouble.

 

Fundamentalism is one way of spirituality. At it's best, it starts out from the notion that thinking is the key to finding the inborn spiritual urge. It works in it's way for some people and their description of heaven will be in intellectual terms. When we are lucky , such people are tolerant of other ways of Knowing as Being. When not, they look like those I won't name here as the bots pick up the terms and, well....you know. When a church or a culture is fundamentalist, it is usually threatened by outsiders, by the antichrist or anything else that could upset the cannons of belief. (By the way, when given insufficient justification for telling a lie, for inventing literal truth out of intellect and for repeating one not proved to be true, for believing in the face of evidence to the contrary, the natural tendency is to convince ourselves it must be true. This artificial reinforcement of belief results in serious and painful cognitive dissonance - good that you see through it!)

 

You, me and all others look for liberation from one painful thing or another, and then something else after that, and the mistake is to look around in the personality or in the world of the 6 senses for a better situation. It is thought that by improving something with religious practices that something will bring relief if it can just be improved or brought under control, re-arranged, re-cognised or otherwise willfully manipulated. Feeling crappy about the apparent uselessness of any spiritual manipulation is universal. Eventually nothing at all works. Or if it does, we are asleep, deluded, dead.

 

Jodo Shinshu is very much a faith based religion and it unfortunately becomes a belief base religion depending on who runs the local show and mostly upon whether there is a consciously liberating basis for faith. Faith turned over to belief can enslave for sure. Shin has this tendency because it never forthrightly de-constructs itself into Shunyata - except in terms that are difficult for Westerners - and specifically for Western fundamentalists. Shunyata or emptiness is present in Shin, but is concealed by cultural differences. Disappointed Christians tend to love Shin because it seems so similar and the differences are attractive. With the faith thing, It's kind of a Chicken/egg proposition. There needs to be understanding of experience before authentic faith is realized, otherwise it is only belief. So then in Shin, it requires faith in order to come to understanding of experience - exactly the same understanding that is critical for faith. Hmmmmmmm Too often, but not always, some kind of feel-good belief is substituted for real wisdom, as is typical of most people in any religion.

 

It is almost a cliche now but it is still true that the Tao that can be spoken is not the true Tao. This is not the intellect working here but it is an intuitive mind that has reached the end of thinking. It is now mind that is Knowing as Being. It has no objects of knowledge. The Tao is what recognizes itself as the Tao. It is thought to be emptiness that is conscious or aware of itself and which appears in form as everyday life. (Mention that to your old pastor and then cool-ly watch his reaction ;-)) There is nothing at all to believe here. It is only to be known in re-cognizing itself. Taoist meditation is one path to this - just please don't get stuck in the quiet, cool, still emptiness as it is also just another dead end. Bring it back to the "world" as the phenomenal evidence of this evidence, knowing itself, is as the you experiencing it! You get to be "God" but certainly not the Abrahamic one. Actually you have no choice - right now this very moment. Buddhist paths are good too.

 

About belief, Chan master Linji said: "Those who leave attachments (mental formations such as religious belief) must then master real, true perception to distinguish the enlightened (states of mind) from the obsessed, the genuine from the artificial, the unregenerate priest from the sage. If you can make these disbarments you can be said to have really left dependency. Professional clergy...cannot be really said to be independent. If you love the sacred and despise the ordinary, you are still bobbing in the ocean of delusion."

 

It is the ordinary that is true mind as itself. There is nothing else somewhere outside just this. It is you looking yourself in the face, so to speak. The fencing-in that you feel is universal. Buddha calls it suffering but it is also just dis-ease or ill ease or even deep dissatisfaction. To come to recognize that in everyday perception is the evidence of what we are as Knowing-Being. it can be shocking too. Blood on the butcher shop floor - Knowing-Being. War in Iraq - Knowing-Being. Efforts to stop the war in Iraq - Knowing-Being. Daosit and Buddhist meditation are authentic paths to discover this for yourself but they should not be used to escape all that knowing being has in everyday life. To do that, to try to escape is just one more religion with rules and abuses of the Tao. Don't stop until you get to the end - the end of you as personality. Don't settle for a philosophy or belief, practice or even faith that will not happily de-construct itself.

 

Very best wishes.

 

edited: Linji I mentioned and all other Buddhist Chan masters were deeply influenced by Daoist consciousness. It is not something diluted when the source is found by finding itself. Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, Christianity - all are the same Knowing as Being at the incomprehensible awakened root of it.

Edited February 15, 2011 by 2netis

[manitou]

2netis, what an enlightened post that was. I'd give it a plus 100 if I could, but I think I'll just hit the button once. I'd like to ask you -

 

"It is almost a cliche now but it is still true that the Tao that can be spoken is not the true Tao. This is not the intellect working here but it is an intuitive mind that has reached the end of thinking"

 

Did you mean to say that the intuitive mind picks up where the intellect ends?

 

 

You get to be "God" but certainly not the Abrahamic one.

 

What a statement. I love it. The only difference is that the Abrahamic one was the one with the rampant ego. If and when we are able to get down to the god pool it can only be done by leaving ego hanging in the closet. I don't think that old fellow got the message, what with him being so jealous and all....

 

If you love the sacred and despise the ordinary, you are still bobbing in the ocean of delusion."

 

This is wonderful. There can be no differentiation. I love Rainbow Vein's new avatar because it's so....well....ordinary and pedestrian, yet there is profound wisdom that can be gleaned from it.

To embrace the ugly with the beautiful, even death with life. Not much to be afraid of if we can manage to incorporate that into the equation.

[buck]

These are some really great responses! I am amazed at the help, thank you all so much! I have to sign off for a bit right now but there were some things that really hit home with me in the responses... I'd like to mention those too and an extra thanks!

[2netis]

2netis, what an enlightened post that was. I'd give it a plus 100 if I could, but I think I'll just hit the button once. I'd like to ask you -

 

"It is almost a cliche now but it is still true that the Tao that can be spoken is not the true Tao. This is not the intellect working here but it is an intuitive mind that has reached the end of thinking"

 

Did you mean to say that the intuitive mind picks up where the intellect ends?

 

 

You get to be "God" but certainly not the Abrahamic one.

 

What a statement. I love it. The only difference is that the Abrahamic one was the one with the rampant ego. If and when we are able to get down to the god pool it can only be done by leaving ego hanging in the closet. I don't think that old fellow got the message, what with him being so jealous and all....

 

 

If you love the sacred and despise the ordinary, you are still bobbing in the ocean of delusion."

 

This is wonderful. There can be no differentiation. I love Rainbow Vein's new avatar because it's so....well....ordinary and pedestrian, yet there is profound wisdom that can be gleaned from it.

To embrace the ugly with the beautiful, even death with life. Not much to be afraid of if we can manage to incorporate that into the equation.

 

 

Hi, you are too kind, I think and yeah, been lurking a bit. :-) I mean to say that intellect or the never ending thinking mind is like the incessant busy waves on top of the deep still ocean. Ocean is Being without all the discrimination. In this metaphor, the Tao is the deep implacable oceanic source without bounds and as yet without an object of it's 'attention' - "pure potential" some say but I say less than even that. This intuitive - the Tao - is always underneath the intellect. One instant way to find this Tao is to ask yourself a question such as "What is the sound of one hand clapping?" You don't know, cannot know, but there is wonderful non-dual undivided intelligence and intuition intensely present in inexhaustible supply. This is what is actually alive and we miss it again and again.

 

Yeah, that jealous god is such a clear window into delusional invention of self satisfying mythology. Yes?

Best wishes!

[The Way Is Virtue]

I guess my main question would be along the line of "Is following Taoism akin to following your own tao (or Way)"? Or is there some set of guidelines that you "have to believe this--don't do that" sort of thing.

 

If you have read some about Taoism then you are probably aware that there are various formalized Taoist traditions that are considered to be part of the overall Taoist tradition as a whole, and which do have many beliefs and rules of conduct, etc. that go hand in hand with the particular traditions, and there are also various lossely based cultivation traditions that may not strictly belong to any formalized Taoist group, that consider themselves to be taoist as well. I am not aware of any traditional Taoist ever saying that taoism is about following your owne personal tao or anything much resembling that however. That is more of a western new age kind of pop taoism concept from what I have seen anyway. Whether one belongs to a formal taoist group or organization or whether one practices taoism on one's own, tha main idea seems to be about aligning oneself and cultivating oneself with the natural laws and ways of this world and the cosmos, etc., so as to bring oneself more in alignment with 'tao'. One does not do this by doing whatever they feel like but by cultivating and controlling and refining themselves so as to open themselves more and more to these natural ways over time. Cultivating oneself and following certain moral and conduct guidelines certainly seems to be part of many traditional Taoist tradition as far as I can gather.

 

In China and in some other Asian countries, Taoism is considered to be a religion, although some traditions in Taoism were not at all what we would consider to be a formalized religion, but more of a spiritual cultivation tradition. Since there are various traditions that are considered to be Taoist traditions, you may see a lot of variation in the actual practices for any given tradition, but the general idea still seems to be about spiritual or mentaland spiritual cultivation in such a way as to align oneself more and more with tao, the true natural way. Taoism is not just a philosophy as some in the west seem to believe, or want to make it. From what I have seen, in the true Taoist traditions it is much more about self cultivation or spiritual cultivation and serving others than it is about one just doing one's own thing or whatever. This is just my personal understanding though based on my own limited experience so take this for what it is worth to you.

Best to you in your journey.

[buck]

Sorry for the delayed response. I had intended to reply to each and everyone, but I think maybe it would be better if I just do like this:

 

First, thank you all so much for your responses! They are very appreciated and I have learned from them. Unfortunately in my area there is no one teaching Chinese martial arts anymore. So I can't learn any of those styles. However, I will continue training in hapkido. I enjoy it very much and I can't imagine stopping even if I could also learn a Chinese style. So I have decided to just keeping practicing hapkido, get out more (even though I live out in the woods, much of my time is spent indoors since I work as a network security consultant, constantly monitoring networks) and meditate more as I should. Also I'm going to keep reading the posts and topics here and ask questions where I don't understand something.

 

Thanks again for all your help!

 

Buck

[moonshadow]

In regards to this Taoist,Buddhist,Hindu,Yoga,Qigong,Zhang Zhan, Zen , Dogzen, etc. "Te is not quite Qi" "Hungry Ghosts " are after my Yang.

Excuse me for borrowing from other threads. It is totally confusing.

I get the part about trees and sipping tea up on the mountain.

I thought I understood about martial arts Now I need to know if I have a Buddhist or Taoist intent? Are you serious? Tulko is the only one who can whip MMA adepts.

 

Whatever Tao is can't be spoken. But Buddhism can be spoken and spoken and spoken . Havn't got a clue about the Hindu yet.

There is a choice of doing exerises(where it looks like you are standing still)

for years and hope to make some small gain. This makes sense.

OR you can just email someone and they can send you fabulous results if they know what hour you will be expecting it to arrive. I want this option.

 

70% of the people here are enlightened but never agree with each other on what that really means. Pee Wee,Rodney Dangerfield, and Van Halen are Taoist?

 

Guys have no desires for Gals. Trust me, I do not want your Jing. Do I have my own Jing? It's slang for money, right? "time,money, and energy are all the same thing"

 

Max Christensen and Dependant Origination create alot of Drama or Dharma and after another 12,000 views it still won't be sorted out. Or will it? Some of these threads keep me hanging on edge like a friday afternoon soap opera.

 

There is a surplus of shamans. That is good to know. Some people here have their own Dragons? They come in diferent colors and styles. They are calm and powerful.

 

So after a week here I am wondering what I have stepped off into. If I stick with it for 100 days I get some type of reward. Then I may be ready for Chen Taiji (mack daddy) but Baguazhang is way too complicated because you have to walk in a circle.

 

I think I have finally found the place where I fit in. Besides my BF is now the ex BF.

3 hours single What a crazy week.

[C T]

In regards to this Taoist,Buddhist,Hindu,Yoga,Qigong,Zhang Zhan, Zen , Dogzen, etc. "Te is not quite Qi" "Hungry Ghosts " are after my Yang.

Excuse me for borrowing from other threads. It is totally confusing.

I get the part about trees and sipping tea up on the mountain.

I thought I understood about martial arts Now I need to know if I have a Buddhist or Taoist intent? Are you serious? Tulko is the only one who can whip MMA adepts.

 

Whatever Tao is can't be spoken. But Buddhism can be spoken and spoken and spoken . Havn't got a clue about the Hindu yet.

There is a choice of doing exerises(where it looks like you are standing still)

for years and hope to make some small gain. This makes sense.

OR you can just email someone and they can send you fabulous results if they know what hour you will be expecting it to arrive. I want this option.

 

70% of the people here are enlightened but never agree with each other on what that really means. Pee Wee,Rodney Dangerfield, and Van Halen are Taoist?

 

Guys have no desires for Gals. Trust me, I do not want your Jing. Do I have my own Jing? It's slang for money, right? "time,money, and energy are all the same thing"

 

Max Christensen and Dependant Origination create alot of Drama or Dharma and after another 12,000 views it still won't be sorted out. Or will it? Some of these threads keep me hanging on edge like a friday afternoon soap opera.

 

There is a surplus of shamans. That is good to know. Some people here have their own Dragons? They come in diferent colors and styles. They are calm and powerful.

 

So after a week here I am wondering what I have stepped off into. If I stick with it for 100 days I get some type of reward. Then I may be ready for Chen Taiji (mack daddy) but Baguazhang is way too complicated because you have to walk in a circle.

 

I think I have finally found the place where I fit in. Besides my BF is now the ex BF.

3 hours single What a crazy week.

 

ooops! Must be the full moon?

 

sorry to hear of your roller coaster-like week, moonshadow.

 

Here... something that could hopefully cheer you up -

[manitou]

Yeah, that jealous god is such a clear window into delusional invention of self satisfying mythology. Yes?

 

Yes.

[The Way Is Virtue]

Sorry for the delayed response. I had intended to reply to each and everyone, but I think maybe it would be better if I just do like this:

First, thank you all so much for your responses! They are very appreciated and I have learned from them. Unfortunately in my area there is no one teaching Chinese martial arts anymore. So I can't learn any of those styles. However, I will continue training in hapkido. I enjoy it very much and I can't imagine stopping even if I could also learn a Chinese style. So I have decided to just keeping practicing hapkido, get out more (even though I live out in the woods, much of my time is spent indoors since I work as a network security consultant, constantly monitoring networks) and meditate more as I should. Also I'm going to keep reading the posts and topics here and ask questions where I don't understand something.

Thanks again for all your help!

Buck

 

Hi Buck. Sounds good. Not sure if you are still checking this thread, but just thought I'd try to clarify what I said previously a little further. I think taoism or any other 'ism' is not so much about which particular practices one does, or even so much about what one believes or thinks, etc., as all springs from the same source (or source that is not a source ). Although there are many different outward practices and methods, the inner experience is what matters, and is what is common, IMO. However, many people these days are deep inside their heads, but being such is all within the domain of the ego and thus, in my understanding, is not really the cultivation of tao, or self cultivation, or spiritual cultivation, or whatever one wants to call it. It is for this reason that 'traditional' cultivation paths (I'm struggling for words here ) do have certain specific approaches and practices and, yes, guidelines and rules, to help carefully guide one from the domain of the ego to the domain that is not a domain, or realm that is beyond realms, or the truth that is not speakable, so to speak. There are no definites, but it might help to think of various paths as sets of stepping stones that lead one not along a path, but incrementally allow one to release the tight hold of the ego and to begin to directly experience that which is beyond the realms of ordinary thought and perception, and which is beyond duality. So if this is the case, one could analyze and think and ponder and imagine till the cows come home, but one would still be fully inside their head. It seems the sages of old didn't sit around pondering and thinking and analyzing so much as they focused on ways or practices to release the powerful grip of the ego and its associated tight control and restriction over our 'thought' and perception and our experience, etc. Also, this would also seem to imply that one wouldn't necessarily have to follow any particular path to cultivate tao, and Buddha apparently also found his own way, but it would seem most people need at least some assistance and guidance in this endeavor, if not a whole lot of assistance and guidance. It seems the ego has an endless supply of tricks up its sleeves.

This all again, is just my own personal view though, and no doubt many would see it differently.

 

In my view, all that each and everyone of us can do is proceed however we think is best and in whichever way seems to resonate with us personally. Some might say that just living our life is a meditation in itself, so from that perspective one is perhaps already on a path of a sort, although I personally don't know one way or another. Are we lost in a sea of endless ignorance, or are we on a purposeful journey? Is the question even answerable? Perhaps not with the mind, but possibly through other means. Some people are inclined to address this with faith, some prefer to ignore the question altogether, and some prefer to try to seek an answer. For that reason some choose to align themself with a specifc tradition with its associated specifc practices and views and rules and guidelines, in hopes of answering some of the nagging questions or perhaps in hopes of at least somewhat bettering their understanding or their situation, or maybe in hopes of bringing more of a sense of purpose and meaning to their life.

 

One other point on Taoism for anyone who may be wondering or confused about all the various different practices in taoism, and why some approaches and practices may seem to be very different. The actual taoist practices have evolved over many centuries as well as branched off in various directions. Some branches or offshoots of taoism might be considered by some to not be taoism at all, or to be inferior practices, although there may be those who refer to some of these particular offshoots or set of practices as Taoism or Taoist. I believe the same exists for Buddhism as well and likely for many other traditions. These sorts of things certainly add to the total confusion about what is taoism in the West, and probably also in the East as well.

Edited February 19, 2011 by The Way Is Virtue

[Otis]

I guess my main question would be along the line of "Is following Taoism akin to following your own tao (or Way)"? Or is there some set of guidelines that you "have to believe this--don't do that" sort of thing.

Hi Buck. You've gotten lots of good responses on this thread.

 

One thing I think is worth pointing out: every religion has its credo, but every follower actually follows their own way, anyway. In other words, we all do our own parsing, our own interpreting, our own choice in the matter, whether the religion says we should, or not. (For example, some Xtians see their religion as a reason to love gays, and others, as a reason to hate them).

 

Taoism is (to my knowledge) the only philosophy that actually recognizes that we are all following our own path anyway, and sees that as a path of liberation.

 

Of course your path is different than mine. We have different things to surrender. If I were phobic of spiders, then dealing with that fear has to be part of my path. If you are already at peace with that fear, then you have no need to surrender it. And so on.

 

Our paths reflect our genetics, our conditioning, our beliefs, and our habits. No two people have the exact same qualities, so no two will have the same process of unfolding and awakening.

Edited February 19, 2011 by Otis

[Otis]

Oh yes, and if you're wondering how to distinguish between an authentic practice and a bunch of hoo-ha, I recommend Occam's razor as the best gauge. If a system sounds unnecessarily esoteric, baroque and supernatural, it's probably because it is. Simplicity is the enemy of the ego, but it is the sure friend of someone seeking liberation.