Terribly Confused

[2netis]

 

Whatever Tao is can't be spoken. But Buddhism can be spoken and spoken and spoken . Havn't got a clue about the Hindu yet.

 

So after a week here I am wondering what I have stepped off into. If I stick with it for 100 days I get some type of reward. Then I may be ready for Chen Taiji (mack daddy) but Baguazhang is way too complicated because you have to walk in a circle.

 

I think I have finally found the place where I fit in. Besides my BF is now the ex BF.

3 hours single What a crazy week.

 

Thanks, nice, poetic.

 

 

If you are very very lucky, you will have stepped into the Mother Of All Chaos. Once truth loses the unknown of the moment, it is no longer the truth. That is why it must never be spoken. If you can live with chaos, you live with the truth. No points removed for grasping at beauty of the moment. None taken away for finding that you actually don't know anything at all. Hang out there, in the unknowing, in the chaos so that true nature - Buddhist or Taoist or Hindu - can now finally locate you. You will have to turn in your personalized ID card though, because you will not represent anything more concrete than nameless, formless "being".

 

If this is not the Mother Of All Chaos for you, then try to find it in the very moment of other places too - or even the very next moment of unknowing right here. That is where you are authentic, realized, independent and utterly invincible. Uncomfortable sometimes perhaps, if it is the truth, but authentic.

 

Good luck! Nice to see you. I'm new here too.

[manitou]

Wow. The mother of all Chaos. I love it.

 

And it occurs to me that it's only chaos if we fear it. Without fear it becomes serendipity.

[moonshadow]

Thanks, nice, poetic.

 

 

If you are very very lucky, you will have stepped into the Mother Of All Chaos. Once truth loses the unknown of the moment, it is no longer the truth. That is why it must never be spoken. If you can live with chaos, you live with the truth. No points removed for grasping at beauty of the moment. None taken away for finding that you actually don't know anything at all. Hang out there, in the unknowing, in the chaos so that true nature - Buddhist or Taoist or Hindu - can now finally locate you. You will have to turn in your personalized ID card though, because you will not represent anything more concrete than nameless, formless "being".

 

If this is not the Mother Of All Chaos for you, then try to find it in the very moment of other places too - or even the very next moment of unknowing right here. That is where you are authentic, realized, independent and utterly invincible. Uncomfortable sometimes perhaps, if it is the truth, but authentic.

 

Good luck! Nice to see you. I'm new here too.

Thankyou for the kind words Your post is truly poetic as opposed to my drunken stupor. I was going to get up early today and erase my post

I will let it remain as a reminder to myself . I am at a moment of unknowing but it seems fine.

Chaos wrapped in serendipity, AWESOME. Do i have to go somewhere to turn in my I.D.

or can i just toss or burn it? I think the nature retreat is coming sooner this year.

CowTao Thanks for the song too.

[The Way Is Virtue]

Edited February 19, 2011 by The Way Is Virtue

[manitou]

TWIV - thank you so much for posting that wonderful synopsis of the evolution of Taoism. Your deep understanding shines so apparently between your lines.

 

I have been curious for some time about whether there was a path of self cultivation within the Taoist evolution; I hadn't seen it mentioned in the threads I've been on - In ancient times, was it was reserved only for the masters? Or am I reading it incorrectly?

[The Way Is Virtue]

I have been curious for some time about whether there was a path of self cultivation within the Taoist evolution; I hadn't seen it mentioned in the threads I've been on - In ancient times, was it was reserved only for the masters? Or am I reading it incorrectly?

 

Hi Manitou. I am by no means an expert on Taoist history, but like others here I have read up on it some. I was also a little surprised to learn that there was a long standing tradition of inner or self cultivation in taoism that precedes the advent of formalized Taoism (which also precedes the arrival of Buddhism in China as well), of which the first formalized Taoist tradition on record is attributed as Tianshi Dao (which was a precursor to the still existing Zhengyi Dao Taoism branch), which was supposed to have been formed in the year 142 CE.

 

There certainly seems to be references to inner or self cultivation in the Tao Te Ching and Chuang Tzu, but there was another lesser known text called the Nei Ye 內業 (Innner Study), thought by scholars to have originated in the 4th century BCE, which focuses mainly on the proper principles of self cultivation and stillness meditation for the purpose of attaining the way. This text describes the importance of calming the emotions and stilling the mind and maintaining the correct body posture to cultivate oneself for the purpose of attaining the way. This text also contains a number of passages that are very similar in concept to passages found in the Tao Te Ching. Some scholars believe that the Tao Te Ching was actually a compilation of Taoist passages from older taoist texts or oral taoist teachings. The Nei Ye should be of interest to anyone who is interested in older taoist texts like the Tao Te Ching and Chuang Tzu, and may help shed some light on some of the passages found in those other texts. I don't know if these teachings were available to just anyone in the times of the Nei Ye, or if they were kept within specific groups of practitioners only.

 

Here is a link to an online translation of the Nei Ye, translated by Harold Roth:

Translation of the "Nei Ye" (Inner Study Classic)

 

P.S. There are translations of other taoist texts at this link:

Some Taoist Texts Translations

 

 

.

Edited February 20, 2011 by The Way Is Virtue

[Marblehead]

Hi TWIV,

 

Nice posts.

 

I just want to add that in the Chuang Tzu one can see that during his lifetime there already were various schools of Taoism taking form and some did include inner cultivation etc. Although Chuang Tzu did not speak to it, there already was Buddist influence in some schools of Taoism during his lifetime but he did speak to the Confucian influences.

[manitou]

Thanks again, TWIV - I got onto that site - incredible! I put it on my Favorites bar and I want to get back and read it all.

 

I have read Lin Yutang's translation of Lao Tsu in the past and I find it a little overwhelming - I think I'll try reading it again. For some reason the first analogy about the li bird irritates me - probably because I couldn't figure out what they were talking about. As we hopefully keep evolving, maybe the time is right for me to look at it again. I just looked over the li bird analogy and it jumps out at me this time that they are talking about comparative situations; the length of the li bird's flight with the short twittering flight of the sparrow. Surely this goes to soul awareness and depth of understanding; I'll have to go back and look at it with more knowledgeable eyes this time.

 

And wow. The Nei Yeh, or "inward attainment". I ran off a copy of it. This is pure Tao through and through. I'm delighted to see that the focus is on inner awareness, and in fact chapter three gets very specific as to what to look for:

 

All the forms of the mind

Are naturally infused and filled with it (the vital essence)

Are naturally generated and developed (because of) it.

It is lost

Inevitably because of sorrow, happiness, joy, anger, desire, and profit-seeking.[/b

If you are able to cast off sorrow, happiness, joy, anger, desire and profit-seeking,

Your mind will just revert to equanimity.

The true condition of the mind

Is that it finds calmness beneficial and, by it, attains repose..

And harmony will naturally develop.

 

I would like to start a new book study based on the Nei-yeh. It seems to be a real instruction manual for how to attain the Sage mindset.

[2netis]

...in case any is interested.

 

This is very helpful for me along with your later post and links. My current window into Tao as philosophy and history is limited mostly through the window of the Chan Buddhist masters who recognized the same sublime as Taoists find. Than you very much!

[The Way Is Virtue]

Marblehead: Interesting about the references to different taoist groups in Chuang Tzu's time and the presence of Buddhism in that time as well. Thanks for the info. I did some searching and apparently one Chinese scholar believes Buddhism was already present in China in the time of Emperor Qin Shi Huang, who was apparently emperor of the state of Qin from 246 BCE to 221 BCE. Emperor Qin Shi Huang is supposed to have banned Buddhism in China (as China existed in his time) during his reign. Here is a link to a brief news article that I found on the Chinese scholar (Han Wei) who is proposing this idea:

Buddhism known in Emperor Qin's time

 

Manitou: I haven't read the translations by Lin Yutang, but it sounds interesting. Yes, the Nei Ye is an interesting text for sure. This form of stillness meditation as an important form of self cultivation has continued on to this day in at least some of the Quanzhen Dao traditions. The Purity and Stillness Classic (Purity and Stillness Classic Translation) is thought to have been written around the 8th century CE, and is considered an important text in the Quanzhen Dao tradition, and seems very similar in theme to the Nei Ye.

 

P.S. Harold Roth's book on the Nei Ye and related,

"Original Tao: Inward Training (Nei-yeh) and the Foundations of Taoist Mysticism (Translations from the Asian Classics)" can be found here:

On Amazon

and a sample:

book sample

 

 

2netis: You are welcome.

 

Regarding how far back these traditions of inner cultivation go, some taoists say that these traditions go back as far as seven thousand years or so. One taoist story I have read, regarding the origin of these traditions, states that many thousands of years ago there were highly accomplished spiritual beings on this Earth who were more spiritual than physical. They were highly accomplished in spiritual arts. Over time the tao 'began to recede on Earth' and more mundane people began to take over. The remaining highly evolved spiritual beings passed on some of their knowledge to the people over time. One of descendants of these spiritual beings is supposed to be the Yellow Emperor, for example. This knowledge passed on was supposed to be the origin of the early taoism practices and also early TCM. This Taoist text seems to allude to this as well, and also has a story about the origin of Lao Tzu:

The stone tablet in the temple of Laozi

 

I may be offline for the near future. Best to everyone.

 

 

 

 

.

Edited February 20, 2011 by The Way Is Virtue