Cat Pillar Posted February 16, 2011 I've been very curious about entheogens for awhile. I'd like to know everyone's opinions on them as far as their value for spiritual development, and which ones are most useful for that kind of work. I have my reservations about using them, but it is an avenue I'd like to explore in case it might offer some benefit to my journey. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazy cloud Posted February 16, 2011 I've been very curious about entheogens for awhile. I'd like to know everyone's opinions on them as far as their value for spiritual development, and which ones are most useful for that kind of work. I have my reservations about using them, but it is an avenue I'd like to explore in case it might offer some benefit to my journey. Cool avatar!! IMO there are many false shamans lurking about. It is a very interesting subject. Tread carefully. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheSongsofDistantEarth Posted February 16, 2011 Worth experiencing, but wary of getting stuck there. Some energy healers report tears in the aura and suchlike with overuse of entheogens, even if they are natural. But doing them in nature, a safe secluded space, can often times show you the way or eliminate blockages. I would love to know what Ya Mu thinks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unmike Posted February 16, 2011 Learn as much as you can about whatever substance(s) you decide to put into your body, and if you do go far enough to try them, start slowly! The powers of the mind and those chemicals which alter its function are profound. Caution is advised for all fellow psychonauts, because the only guidebook to your innerself is your outer one. Keep in mind that the various psychoactive compounds in common use today have wildly different effects, and one must pick the poison they are most suited to. Positive experiences are possible with all of them from LSD and psylocibin to ketamine to MDMA to accidental endogenous DMT flushes to salvia divinorum. Each of those does different things, brings forth characteristic emotional and physical responses, and carries with it a host of qualities the others do not. Salvia especially is tricky for its tremendous amounts of fear and rapid onset, coupled with an enormous intensity despite its brief duration. Some are entirely synthetic, like LSD (not necessarily worse for such, simply a quality it possesses). Some are completely natural. DMT, for example, is able to be smoked, injected, or imbibed via ayuhuasca, or triggered through high level Microcosmic Orbit practices (accidentally, as in my case). With all of them, care and cautious sensitivity to yourself are necessary, though its impossible to relate to someone what tripping is like before they've had a chance to experience it themselves. This means a positive environment and trustworthy companion(s) are of utmost importance. Beyond that, small dosages are best, because the multifarious effects of said substances are often difficult to deal with, and experience at lower intensities can help ease one into the skills necessary for dealing with a total world meltdown. All of this said, these substances are only that. The results, whether positive or negative, lie entirely within your responses to their actions. They can be a great trap for many, and the lure of a quick, easy enlightening is large. Ultimately, though, their capacity for good is equally huge. Happy travels and good luck! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manitou Posted February 16, 2011 I've even seen the components for ayahuasca sold online, I think it was Bouncing Bear Botanicals. LOL, I don't know if I'm a false shaman or not, but either way - I've had really nice success with cannabis as far as mind expansion and instantaneous connection with the second attention for ceremony. Beyond that I guess I'm a bit of a chicken. Did try the salvia once and turned into a tarantula and walked out the front door on my back. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ulises Posted February 16, 2011 The sinologist and historian Joseph Needham concluded "the hallucinogenic properties of hemp were common knowledge in Chinese medical and Taoist circles for two millennia or more", and other scholars associated Chinese wu "shamans" with the entheogenic use of cannabis in Central Asian shamanism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_and_spiritual_use_of_cannabis THE CANNABIS PAPERS The Sacramental Use Of Cannabis Sativa http://www.kamakala.com/cannabis.htm 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zerostao Posted February 16, 2011 with respect. i do not think this is a "one size fits all" situation. certainly, do your homework and listen to your own intuition over what others may suggest. personally, i feel entheogens can be a very useful tool for some. i also feel they could be quite detrimental to others. IF one chooses to go this route>> have a trusted friend with you. be in a safe place where you feel comfortable. use a small dose. http://www.erowid.org/ it has been suggested to me by friends that i have some of my ability due to use of entheogens. i have also been at a party in florida where a 25 year old mother of 3 died using mdma. i am not a shaman or any type of expert. ketamine and mdma i consider to be risky. perhaps i could almost think of shrooms as safer BUT not knowing the individual or anything of their personality i would not recommend anything. with lsd how does one make sure of the quality controls used in the manufacturing? i have also imo had success with sasafras tea that i made from root bark i foraged . still there is a Lethal dose and health concerns. reishi is another consideration. please trip responsibly. sacred plants should be treated sacredly and with respect. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ulises Posted February 16, 2011 (edited) [quote please trip responsibly. sacred plants should be treated sacredly and with respect. I don't think that could be another way. This cup of tea (pun intended) is not for everybody. But I think that in these times of massive disinformation is fair for the people interested to have good clean info. We have this knowledge for millenia and its a crying shame that, because of bunch of pharmacratic ayatollahs, some people are being harmed... "All substances are poisons; there is none which is not a poison. The right dose differentiates a poison…." Paracelsus (1493-1541) I've been witness to people - in the company of skillful psychotherapists - overcoming lifetime psychological problems in a few sessions and reconecting with their heart at a exquisite soul level, with the help of MDMDA... "Preliminary studies have shown that MDMA in conjunction with psychotherapy can help people overcome PTSD. MDMA has empathogenic effects, and it is also known as the popular drug Ecstasy (although "Ecstasy" does not always contain pure MDMA). In laboratory studies, MDMA has been proven sufficiently safe for human consumption when taken a limited number of times in moderate doses." http://www.maps.org/research/mdma/ Edited February 16, 2011 by Ulises 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazy cloud Posted February 16, 2011 (edited) Edited February 17, 2011 by lazy cloud Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eviander Posted February 17, 2011 Entheogens have taken me quite far intellectually, have shown me things on the trip that have brought me to tears, changed my outlook on life, and have brought visions that the greatest artist could not remake. Many have relied only on entheogens for success, but for others it has shown them their path as simply a step. Ram Dass is one of the most famous examples of what entheogens can do, he went from a Harvard Pyschology Professor to a Hindu holy man. I doubt anyone could have access to the wide array of chemicals a Harvard professor had when all of it was legal and distributed copiously in prestigious universities, but Terrence Mckenna is another famous example as well, who I would highly suggest if you are interested in the view of entheogens as being "the way" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zerostao Posted February 17, 2011 ponders eating 5 grams of shrooms (depends on the variety) i did post a video dedicated to this thread in the basement/taoist tv Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ulises Posted February 17, 2011 Good guide. Recommended http://www.futureprimitive.org/2010/12/julieta-casimiro/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheSongsofDistantEarth Posted February 17, 2011 After thoroughly exploring the entheogen scene in my 30's, and having known, met and hung out with many of the 'stars' in the field for e.g., Jonathan Ott, Terrence McKenna, Andrew Weil, Paul Stamets, and others, I can tell you that doing lots of whatever does nothing for spiritual presence or development, and leads you in a different, albeit interesting, direction. I have grown immensely spiritually since leaving them behind. I think Ram Dass is one who left entheogens behind and became who he was supposed to be. I mean, does anyone here really want to be like Timothy Leary? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jetsun Posted February 17, 2011 In the Castaneda books Don Juan started him off on entheogens in order to move his view of reality or assemblage point to a different place to loosen him of from his perspective, but he describes how this took a toll on his health and it took him a long time to properly recover. In my view they can be useful for people who are too fixed to give them a first breakthrough but I expect most people on this site are aware of different perspectives of reality anyway through more regular methods. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ulises Posted February 17, 2011 (edited) In the Castaneda books Don Juan started him off on entheogens in order to move his view of reality or assemblage point to a different place to loosen him of from his perspective, but he describes how this took a toll on his health and it took him a long time to properly recover. In my view they can be useful for people who are too fixed to give them a first breakthrough but I expect most people on this site are aware of different perspectives of reality anyway through more regular methods. more regular methods...? you mean that the huichol/wixarika, the pygmies (and many other tribes in Gabon and Africa), the Diné (navajo),the old school Taoists, the Nagas of India, and so forth and so on along the planet...are marginal and perhaps somewhat wrong..? Castaneda was a megalomaniac without any relationship with a real, living shamanic lineage. Tim Leary embodied precisely the unbalanced narcissism of our culture, so dissociated from the Earth: at least he was the first one spreading the word that one way of co-evolving with Gaia is through these allies... Dr. Albert Hofmann once asked why there are in Nature so many plants (entheogens) filled with tryptamines...exactly like the release of our endogenous DMT in the pineal gland (like a key in the lock): is it a coincidence...? I don't think so. Again, this cup of tea is not everyone. Again, the relationship with the plants is not recreational: there are protocols, rhythms...is a relationship,not abuse. We (the people interested) can learn from the ancestral lineages how to enter in that relationship.... Edited February 17, 2011 by Ulises Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ulises Posted February 17, 2011 (edited) A fabulous contribution to the field of transpersonal studies ( more that twenty years of serious, systematic work - Stan Grof way - with entheogens & Vajrayana) "It is not hard to imagine that there may indeed be some form of great suffering ahead. I don't think that there necessarily *has to be* great collective suffering in order for the human species to be transformed (and it seems Bache doesn't either), although if we do experience great suffering this may very well trigger an enormous transformation especially if western society collapses in the process. A more hopeful view is that the transformation can be made slowly and gently. In practical terms, perhaps in the form of a psychedelic renaissance or archaic revival where modern man is integrated into the ancient shamanic worldview. It may be a race againt time. Will our society fuse with the archaic world of shamanism in time before we face total social, economic and ecological collapse followed by some sort of post-apocalyptic scenario where we kill one another for resources on a mass scale? That seems to be one of the most important questions explored in the book. If we do come to face this doomsday scenario then this book attempts to explore the causes and what might happen to us as a result. Transpersonal states of consciousness as a means of healing humanity has been mentioned by Terence McKenna among others. Bache takes this one step further in a deeper exploration into the dynamics of individual/collective death-rebirth. The result of his probing contributes to an understanding of how psychedelic states can heal us as a species in a way that goes beyond simply "one person at a time" http://www.amazon.com/Dark-Night-Early-Dawn-Transpersonal/dp/0791446069 The revolution in psychology after Freud and Jung: “Dr. Grof's studies of the mystical experience in LSD therapy represent an extremely valuable scientific approach to consciousness research from which many people can benefit.” (Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche, Tibetan lama and author of Born in Tibet, Spiritual Materialism, and Meditation in Action ) http://www.amazon.com/LSD-Numinous-Groundbreaking-Psychedelic-Unconscious/dp/1594772827/ref=pd_sim_b_1 Edited February 17, 2011 by Ulises Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ulises Posted February 17, 2011 (edited) I just meant things like meditation, breath work and soul retrieval sorts of things which you find in most big cities these days as more regular ways to give you a changed perspective on reality, I didn't say anything about wrong but I know from my own experiences entheogens are a more dangerous dramatic method to do this. OK, sorry. It hasn't to be that way, respecting the protocols of relationship. And if you research in internet - forums,etc. - the use of entheogens is becoming a widespread practice for the youngest urbanite generations...do we close our eyes...or do we share useful info to avoid innnecesay harm and harvesting the psichospiritual benefits... somebody as serious as writer Aldous Huxley wrote 50 years ago that entheogens - one of the oldest ways of spirituality - could be a hope against the quick race of auto-destruction of humankind. again, entheogens are means(integrated in a spiritul practice),not ends in themselves..medicines, not food: sacraments,if you like Edited February 17, 2011 by Ulises 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ulises Posted February 17, 2011 (edited) more interesting books: Zig Zag Zen: Buddhism and Psychedelics http://www.amazon.com/Zig-Zag-Zen-Buddhism-Psychedelics/dp/0811832864 Plants of the Gods: Their Sacred, Healing, and Hallucinogenic Powers http://www.amazon.com/Plants-Gods-Sacred-Healing-Hallucinogenic/dp/0892819790/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1297960071&sr=1-2 Cleansing the Doors of Perception: The Religious Significance of Entheogenic Plants and Chemical Huston Smith http://www.amazon.com/Cleansing-Doors-Perception-Significance-Entheogenic/dp/1591810086 Inner Paths to Outer Space: Journeys to Alien Worlds through Psychedelics and Other Spiritual Technologies Rick Strassman, Slawek Wojtowicz, Luis Eduardo Luna, Ede Frecska http://www.amazon.com/Inner-Paths-Outer-Space-Psychedelics/dp/159477224X Edited February 17, 2011 by Ulises Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gj551 Posted February 17, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-d6AwD5ROdA Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ulises Posted February 17, 2011 (edited) Everybody mentions Leary and Ram Dass/Alpert, but Ralph Metzner is doing a great work since some decades ago... http://www.greenearthfound.org/ralph_metzner.html Edited February 17, 2011 by Ulises Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ulises Posted February 18, 2011 (edited) . Edited February 18, 2011 by Ulises Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazy cloud Posted February 18, 2011 Everybody mentions Leary and Ram Dass/Alpert, but Ralph Metzner is doing a great work since some decades ago... http://www.greenearthfound.org/ralph_metzner.html Shulgin- PiHKAL Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
