what's the purpose of life, or this body?

[Non]

Do we need this body to achieve anything? Buddhist are always trying to liberate themselves from this body because "life is suffering". Why can't they just kill themselves then and everything will be "alright"?

 

Whats the purpose of having this body? Is it used as a vehicle? Are the Buddhists trying to change the world by staying in the body,achieving enlightenment so they can come back to the world in their vehicle to transmit the message?

 

Life is only suffering huh. TO the buddhists we have no real purpose, the true state of the universe is nothing but Void.

 

Im not buddhist but I can't get past seeing the world without purpose. Even if we Do create our own purpose then what of the people who are stuck living life a certain way, can't create their own purpose?

 

Animals for example. What purpose do they have? All they do all day is scavenge for food... Well some may say it can be enjoyable. But their lives are really primitive. Do they ever stop to think "WTF?"

 

WTF? Why do we have to be here doing not what we want to do but what we "have" to do? This is OUR Universe why aren't we Creating our world the way we want to be? Is this our true home? Is this some purgatory?

 

There's no storyline, there's no plot. Live and die. Over and over.

 

Maybe I shd get more into Buddhism.

[Gerard]

High level Daoists think the same as the Buddhists you refer to. When you reach a high level there are no really distinctions between spiritual practices.

 

The purpose of live is to work on your karma and purify your mind. The body is the vehicle that carries both and needs to be very nourished because vitality = spirit. Once you merge with the Dao life and death mean nothing.

 

This is the continuum called life and death, which is nothing more than a journey:

 

 

 

 

Each life you learn and grow, but one single life cannot be extended forever due to the impermanent nature of reality, yin and yang also change, all the time and create the 5 elements and myriads of things.

 

IMO the most important thing is working on karma while maintaining a balance with the fluctuations of yin and yang or the normal flow of Qi will be disrupted and sickness will appear.

 

I think it's quite a lot for a life, isn't it?

 

I wish life was simpler and sometimes I think it would be so nice to become a deva and make everything happen at will without any interferences. Life would be much easier I guess.

 

Btw, I think you are experiencing the so-called dark night of the soul. Here's Jhanananda's succint description of this painful stage:

 

http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/commitment.htm

 

 

Blessings and good luck,

 

[XieJia]

Do we need this body to achieve anything? Buddhist are always trying to liberate themselves from this body because "life is suffering". Why can't they just kill themselves then and everything will be "alright"?

 

Whats the purpose of having this body? Is it used as a vehicle? Are the Buddhists trying to change the world by staying in the body,achieving enlightenment so they can come back to the world in their vehicle to transmit the message?

 

Life is only suffering huh. TO the buddhists we have no real purpose, the true state of the universe is nothing but Void.

 

Im not buddhist but I can't get past seeing the world without purpose. Even if we Do create our own purpose then what of the people who are stuck living life a certain way, can't create their own purpose?

 

Animals for example. What purpose do they have? All they do all day is scavenge for food... Well some may say it can be enjoyable. But their lives are really primitive. Do they ever stop to think "WTF?"

 

WTF? Why do we have to be here doing not what we want to do but what we "have" to do? This is OUR Universe why aren't we Creating our world the way we want to be? Is this our true home? Is this some purgatory?

 

There's no storyline, there's no plot. Live and die. Over and over.

 

Maybe I shd get more into Buddhism.

 

 

Non, I think there may be some misunderstandings from the Buddhism concepts here. I am not saying that you are wrong; but I just want to point some out.

 

There's a reason in which all Buddhas are human. (As I was told)

It's hard to be born Human amongst the transformation (And to throw it away is being ungrateful)

 

One need to see the 'true suffering' that arise from impermanence that all Stream Enterer sees (I don't claim I am there either)

 

(Many Buddhist can disagree here) I don't think the true state is a void; there's the transformation (Earth, Water, Wind, Fire), one could say that it is all transformation of awareness/consciousness.

 

Not there is no purpose but the fact that we are not aware of our own true path, and making up false purpose and are astray.

We are still need to ride with the wave (Dao, Law of karma, Dependent Origination) to enlightenment.

 

To fellow Buddhist; please correct me if you feel that my understanding is wrong in anyway. I will be happy to listen.

 

P.S. The animals are living their purpose.

 

 

Edited: Was posting in between of Gerard's Post; Wanna thanks Gerard for his post as well.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 17, 2011 by XieJia

[Marblehead]

Do we need this body to achieve anything?

 

I don't know. Try leaving your body and allow it to die and let us know how you are doing.

 

(Yes, I am particially kidding but I am serious as well. Without a body I suggest that you will no longer exist in any form whatever.)

[windblown]

Having left my body numerous times in astral travel experiences...I can tell you personally that there is life beyond our wildest imaginations on many planes of existence... brilliant, wonderful and incredibly beautiful. But me telling you that is bunk until you have have had it happen to you. Anyone can learn to leave their body and float into the astral where thoughts manifest immediately wherever we wish to do or go.

 

I have never 'tried' to do this astral travelling thing-it has always happened to me spontaneously. Sometimes I can go a year before it happens again. And it happens when I am the most twisted up in thoughts of WTF are we here for anyway!!! Then I am given a solace, a beautiful waking dream, a clue to the multiplicity of existence and the enormity of experience.

 

But who freakin' cares about my dreams...right? O.K. so for me, I get exactly like you... repeatedly. It's a pattern in spiritually minded people to get very connected to source, only then to fade a bit, then to doubt everything and everybody,(which I feel is very healthy but causes me extreme anxiety,) then to get angry about the whole dang thing cuz nobody seems to know and the ones that pretend to are just plain annoying know-it-alls...dang them too! I feel lost, confused and emotional. I wonder why the heck isn't the whole world wondering why Were Are Here instead of going about their mundane lives! I am angry at whoever created this game we are playing and why can't whoever this creator is come into my living room and give me some freakin' answers if their so powerful.

 

Then I say something like this, "Whoever or whatever you are...give me the willingness to be willing to understand Something!!!" Then some synchronistic thing happens very subtly I tell you. Like the morning I screamed the willingness thing to the universe...went to work as usual and for some reason tuned into the song playing in the store by The Red Hots, "The more I learn, the less I know, the more I got to let it go..He Oh...Whoa...

 

That rocketed me into Tao...into letting go. Why the body, why life, why animals? Who knows? I don't. I don't need to. Trying to understand makes me crazy. It is fathomless. If you ask people the meaning of life...you will get a million dfferent answers, some will be quite clever and profound but in all honesty no one really knows. If it makes me crazy...why chase it? Let it go...then I have the chance of learning something. Which to me means stop trying so hard. Allow it to happen.

 

Just enjoy it. Be true to your inner nature. Don't get too tangled up in other people's created spiritual paths...follow what seems true to you.

 

I personally don't care for Buddhism because I don't like the word...'Dharma' and chanting things in some foreign tongue and reading boring scriptures and thinking life is suffering. I commend the followers of Buhddism, (always had trouble spelling that word) because I feel it is a very beautiful way to live but I don't have or want that type of structure and discipline in my life. I also don't want to chase enlightenment. Been there, done that. Talk about ego problems. Sure maybe that's shallow but so what? I'd rather have fun with life. and practice wu-wei and be surprised and delighted with the beautiful things and the subtleties. I don't have to be all good and compassionate but by following the way I'm in harmony with myself, the world and others.

[Marblehead]

Hi Windblown,

 

Nice to see I have another member I might be able to get into some spirited discussions with. Hehehe. But here is not the place as attention should be given to Non's questions and comments.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Do we need this body to achieve anything? Buddhist are always trying to liberate themselves from this body because "life is suffering". Why can't they just kill themselves then and everything will be "alright"?

 

Because, in the opinion of this as yet unenlightened forum poster, if you have not realized enlightenment, if you have not actually liberated yourself, if you have not cultivated the ever present awareness of things, and you kill yourself, all you're doing is just waiting to be reincarnated.

 

Kill yourself and you're back in the same place, and, most likely, it'll take you at least another lifetime to even get back to where you were at in terms of even knowing about a path.

 

So quit thinking about offing yourself. It's not a shortcut to enlightenment, success, or liberation from suffering.

Edited February 17, 2011 by Sloppy Zhang

[2netis]

Hi Non,

As I see it, at the root of "things" there is no purpose, there is only being. You could say that the Tao just sort of bubbles up as deep wisdom and satisfaction with the way things are - that is until we start looking for purpose. Another metaphor is the stream that flows effortlessly, not resisting boulders and waterfalls but instead just enjoying its "beingness" on the way out to the ocean. To be awakened is to accept and appreciate what is at any given moment - any moment at all. To stop short of this realization is to fall into nihilism which you are describing quite well..."Why can't they just kill themselves then and everything will be "alright"?" To find out how this comes to be is to be able to live with the questions and to love it, rather than needing final solutions and answers. Every sage you care to check into, including Buddha, is saying this. It is said in so many ways but it is the same truth. Wisely negotiating the things that cause suffering, which are always the things we think we know the best, is like a dance and it is one that results in great compassion far beyond any personal reason for living. The Dalai Lama calls it the Art of Life on some older DVD recordings.

 

We cannot know or do any of this except as human. Incredible opportunity here! Just pause....mindfully....at the very first next thing you think you do not like. Only humans can do this. In this very way, consciousness has the opportunity to recognise itself. If there is any purpose to life, this is it.

 

Best wishes.

[manitou]

What a subject.

 

After mentally masturbating this very question for years and years, I have come to only one conclusion.

 

We are here for 'whatever it is' to Experience. That's all. Not to judge, not to try and do good works, just to experience. It apparently wants to feel It's own natural creation.

 

This idea that is Mankind is apparently just an idea that has come, or is coming, into fruition. It seems to just want to experience every emotion. It apparently has not finished evolving; it seems to me that the kundalini phenomenon that affects many of us is the proof that the evolution continues.

 

Being in a Witness frame of mind goes along with this quite nicely; hence, the Sage.

[Marblehead]

What a subject.

 

After mentally masturbating this very question for years and years, I have come to only one conclusion.

 

We are here for 'whatever it is' to Experience. That's all. Not to judge, not to try and do good works, just to experience. It apparently wants to feel It's own natural creation.

 

This idea that is Mankind is apparently just an idea that has come, or is coming, into fruition. It seems to just want to experience every emotion. It apparently has not finished evolving; it seems to me that the kundalini phenomenon that affects many of us is the proof that the evolution continues.

 

Being in a Witness frame of mind goes along with this quite nicely; hence, the Sage.

 

It is thoughts such as these that every now and then cause me to want to become a more spiritual person but then when I start to think about it I realize that I am creating illusions and delusions for myself and I trash the thoughts.

 

But what you said is very Taoist, in my opinion.

[gendao]

I believe we each have a unique defining struggle in our lives to resolve. They usually always have to do with some form of low self-esteem. Experiencing and releasing this underlying sense of inadequacy is our personal life purpose. We were purposefully placed in situations perfectly-arranged by "karmic," astrological, biological, etc forces to force us to confront such issues. And we will only find true peace and happiness if we manage to resolve them.

 

Our lives are guided by our "superconcious" and our personal actions driven by our "subconscious." But the part we are most aware of, define as "us" and pretend is in control with "free will" - our conscious selves - are ironically the most illusory and least influential in our lives. All it really does is attempt to rationalize what is really controlled by the other 2...lol...

 

The root of your suffering is the root of your ignorance. Find and pull that and you will relieve both. You actually have great questions here - if you keep following them back deeper and deeper down to their root. This is the time-honored method of self-inquiry. Just keep asking...and the deeper down the rabbit hole you will go!

 

You are here to work out certain issues. If you were clear of them, you wouldn't have incarnated here to begin with. And you will keep coming back until you can resolve them. Suicide is not an escape - but merely a replay button.

 

Buddhism is a way to help you to TRULY resolve your ignorance and thus really stop having to keep coming back for remedial classes.

 

Do not accept life nor reject life. For either act is clinging to a temporal condition that will only lead to more suffering...

Edited February 17, 2011 by vortex

[windblown]

Marblehead said, "

 

Hi Windblown,

 

Nice to see I have another member I might be able to get into some spirited discussions with. Hehehe. But here is not the place as attention should be given to Non's questions and comments. "

 

 

 

I say, "But I WAS placing my attention on Non's questions and comments. My post comes from my heart and my experiences. It touches on what Non wrote. It is true for me and I'm sharing it with Non. I'm trying to help in my own way. "

[lazy cloud]

Dang! When 3 Buddhists show up in a thread They certainly give alot to chew on.

Beautiful image Gerard.

On a side note @ Marblehead. I have a friend here locally who told me that in 1976 that He read an article in Newsweek. It was about a Taoist in Taiwan who left his body standing in a temple. It still stands there with hair and fingernails still growing. I think my friend is "pulling my leg" . Does anyone know about this?

[suninmyeyes]

Nice topic.

The trick for me is not about finding out "why do I have this body ",but "who does this body belong to"?There is a big difference.Who is this me person ?

The purpose of life?My feeling is that it is just to respond to whatever needs to be done and wants to be expressed without hurting myself or others/enviroment(this is not extremist ahimsa or anything similar).

P.S I think Gerdard is right you must be going through "dark night of the soul"

[Marblehead]

 

I say, "But I WAS placing my attention on Non's questions and comments. My post comes from my heart and my experiences. It touches on what Non wrote. It is true for me and I'm sharing it with Non. I'm trying to help in my own way. "

 

Oh Dear, I messed up again by not expressing myself properly. Yes, what you said was directed to Non, and it is a very sincere post and hopefully of value to Non.

 

That is why I didn't want to discuss what you said. In absolutely no way was I being negative or trying to discredit your post. Sorry if what I said bothered you.

 

 

Now Non! What are you doing to help yourself?!?!?!?

 

Are you looking for the beautiful aspects of life and not only the negative aspects? And why would you feel that they are negative in the first place? Are they not meeting your expectations?

[Enishi]

Living in a physical body in an environment of outer (although false) duality is a means to gain greater experience and wisdom, far more so than one would be able to get by remaining in a formless bliss state for eons.

Edited February 17, 2011 by Enishi

[Gerard]

...Are you looking for the beautiful aspects of life and not only the negative aspects? And why would you feel that they are negative in the first place? Are they not meeting your expectations?

 

Maybe he is a very old soul himself and is tired of self-indulgence and how beautiful life is from an egotistic point of view. I came across people like this and they all try to ignore the fact that existence is impermanent, constantly subjected to the dynamics of motion and change. Maybe that explains why some decide to leave eveything behind and become hermits...they are too sensitive to handle society's madness and unquenchable cravings for more, hanging onto them like blood-thirsty vampires.

 

But what if Non, decides to eventually become a renunciate and dedicate his life to fully follow the spiritual path and help, guide and/or heal others. Wouldn't be this more fulfilling that sitting down on a couch while enjoying a glass of vodka with lime and watching the latest blockbuster movie and at the same time repeating to himself the following mantra:

 

I am enlightened and life is beautiful

I am enlightened and life is beautiful

I am enlightened and life is beautiful

 

Ohmmmmmmm!

 

 

I don't think that's the case, not when you enter the dark night of the soul stage. There is no going back once you enter it. I can assure you that.

 

Blessings,

 

[Everything]

You guys are trying to discuss the purpose of life or this body trough words, which will never lead to enlightenment...

 

You must "know" without a single hesitation that your purpose is cookies. Chocolate cookies... You create them with your hand and mind, with love and idealistic perfection, inspired by mother nature. Your purpose to gather orranges and make cookies, or gather the best cookies on earth and share them with everyone. You will share cookies with the selfish, with the masochistic, with good and bad. You will witness every reaction as one of your own. You will learn from the experience and you will contemplate on the kind of reactions people get when receiving chocolate cookies with orranges. Your wisdom grows, you begin writing poetic lines and print them in milions of cards to go along with your cookies. People are willing to pay for your cookies, the entire world will care for you, because you are a cookie and the cookie is you. Nature will show you this when your mind has accepted that the cookie is the purpose of your life and body.

 

The cookie is not a lie... Those who hesitated, even to the slightest, found themselves locked up in a room for eternity, scratching paranoid sentences on the walls of fire. Rather accept that the cookie is your purpose, and die trying to supply the entire world with cookies and orranges or live to tell the story.

[manitou]

I have a friend here locally who told me that in 1976 that He read an article in Newsweek. It was about a Taoist in Taiwan who left his body standing in a temple. It still stands there with hair and fingernails still growing. I think my friend is "pulling my leg" . Does anyone know about this?

 

 

I don't know anything about this, but there's sure a joke in there somewhere, lol. It'll probably come to me in the middle of the night.

[manitou]

The trick for me is not about finding out "why do I have this body ",but "who does this body belong to"?

 

That's some serious essence.

[Non]

That's some serious essence.

 

But I mean what if you've lost all hope and you are actually hopeless, you've got various ailments that don't seem to be getting better and will never be, everyone around you is displeased with you, no one seems to care, you are nothing but a parasite for this world, etc.

 

What then?

 

Ok, you have no purpose couldn't even create even if you wanted to. So.. acheiving enlightenment, etc. is out of the question because it's impossible, or even buddhist is impossible. You're in the muck of the worldly life, and it has you trapped...

Edited February 18, 2011 by Non

[whynaut]

[zerostao]

Dang! When 3 Buddhists show up in a thread They certainly give alot to chew on.

Beautiful image Gerard.

On a side note @ Marblehead. I have a friend here locally who told me that in 1976 that He read an article in Newsweek. It was about a Taoist in Taiwan who left his body standing in a temple. It still stands there with hair and fingernails still growing. I think my friend is "pulling my leg" . Does anyone know about this?

i found this.

http://www.universal-tao.com/article/esoteric.html

look in the section Taoism and Taoist Adepts

[Otis]

[Marblehead]

Maybe he is a very old soul himself ...

 

Blessings,

 

 

Hi Gerard,

 

Nice post. No, he is a young dude feeling sorry for himself because life is not meeting his expectations. Self-pity! What a curse!!!

 

Yeah, life sucks sometimes. But it doesn't always suck, sometimes it blows.