what's the purpose of life, or this body?

[Marblehead]

You guys are trying to discuss the purpose of life or this body trough words, which will never lead to enlightenment...

 

You must "know" without a single hesitation that your purpose is cookies.

 

Hehehe. You're not related to the cookie monster, are you?

 

No, Non doesn't need enlightenment right now. He needs to learn how to get his head out of the sand. (I was going to say get his head out of some other place but changed my mind.)

[Marblehead]

 

On a side note @ Marblehead. I have a friend here locally who told me that in 1976 that He read an article in Newsweek. It was about a Taoist in Taiwan who left his body standing in a temple. It still stands there with hair and fingernails still growing. I think my friend is "pulling my leg" . Does anyone know about this?

 

I know of that story. It is true but not as you described it above. He was not standing, he was seated. And he drank himself to death with alcohol and other ingredients. What he drank himself to death with actually mummified his body. But the monks will not allow any scientist to take any samples to find out exactly what all he put into that alcohol.

[Marblehead]

But I mean what if you've lost all hope and you are actually hopeless, you've got various ailments that don't seem to be getting better and will never be, everyone around you is displeased with you, no one seems to care, you are nothing but a parasite for this world, etc.

 

What then?

 

Ok, you have no purpose couldn't even create even if you wanted to. So.. acheiving enlightenment, etc. is out of the question because it's impossible, or even buddhist is impossible. You're in the muck of the worldly life, and it has you trapped...

 

Hi Non,

 

Surely there is something in life that causes you pleasure. I just cannot believe that all you ever experience negative emotions. That simply is not logical in my mind.

 

Seek out those things that give you pleasure (without causing harm to others). Once you identify those things, those experiences, that give you pleasure you will have found a purpose in life - to seek out more of those pleasures.

 

Once you have found your purpose (to enjoy those aspects of life) you will naturally seek out more life experiences. This is called living.

 

Sure, there are going to be hard times. I have had mine. We all have had ours. But there is always the flip side of the coin - the good times.

 

You are not trapped. Sure, the cage door is closed and it looks like you cannot get out. Have you tried the door yet? It's not locked. You can be free any time you wish it to be so.

[Marblehead]

[Marblehead]

i found this.

http://www.universal-tao.com/article/esoteric.html

look in the section Taoism and Taoist Adepts

 

Well, I agreed with the article until it got to the 'supernatural' BS.

 

There is no such thing as 'supernatural'. Everything under Tao (everything of the universe) is natural. Sure, there are those who can do things that others do not understand, but if everyone knew how to do these things then everyone could do them.

 

No, you (anyone) will not live very long if you stop breathing. Sure, you can stop eating for many days as long as you intake a little amount of liquid.

[manitou]

But I mean what if you've lost all hope and you are actually hopeless, you've got various ailments that don't seem to be getting better and will never be, everyone around you is displeased with you, no one seems to care, you are nothing but a parasite for this world, etc.

 

What then?

 

Ok, you have no purpose couldn't even create even if you wanted to. So.. acheiving enlightenment, etc. is out of the question because it's impossible, or even buddhist is impossible. You're in the muck of the worldly life, and it has you trapped...

 

 

Non, this would be the time to try and inject a little love into your life. Starting with you. As a recovering alcoholic, I've gotten into the pit that you're in many times. Please start with yourself and do something nice for yourself every day. Maybe take yourself out for a cup of coffee, or buy a new book you've been wanting. Do something nice for YOU daily.

 

But don't stop there. Do something nice for somebody else today, but DON'T LET THEM KNOW YOU'RE DOING IT. In fact, don't tell anybody you did it. This will change an internal dynamic inside yourself where you're not thinking about yourself all the time. It will turn you from an inner-directed person to an outer-directed person. As it stands right now, you seem pretty furled up.

 

Come on, friend. Just walk away from the negativity. Repeatedly trying to figure it out will only serve to keep you there. Look up at the sun.

[zerostao]

Non, this would be the time to try and inject a little love into your life. Starting with you. As a recovering alcoholic, I've gotten into the pit that you're in many times. Please start with yourself and do something nice for yourself every day. Maybe take yourself out for a cup of coffee, or buy a new book you've been wanting. Do something nice for YOU daily.

 

But don't stop there. Do something nice for somebody else today, but DON'T LET THEM KNOW YOU'RE DOING IT. In fact, don't tell anybody you did it. This will change an internal dynamic inside yourself where you're not thinking about yourself all the time. It will turn you from an inner-directed person to an outer-directed person. As it stands right now, you seem pretty furled up.

 

Come on, friend. Just walk away from the negativity. Repeatedly trying to figure it out will only serve to keep you there. Look up at the sun.

sister , this sounds like a wonderful idea.

[zerostao]

Well, I agreed with the article until it got to the 'supernatural' BS.

 

There is no such thing as 'supernatural'. Everything under Tao (everything of the universe) is natural. Sure, there are those who can do things that others do not understand, but if everyone knew how to do these things then everyone could do them.

 

No, you (anyone) will not live very long if you stop breathing. Sure, you can stop eating for many days as long as you intake a little amount of liquid.

MH, i wasnt going to willingly stop breathing. i have had enuff NDE happen in the natural flow of events .i am not gonna try and induce one.

 

i just tried to find sth about the taoist who left his body standing. the mantak chia article was the only thing close i could find.

 

i often encounter people who do things that i don't understand not so sure i would do some of them, even if i understood

[Marblehead]

MH, i wasnt going to willingly stop breathing. i have had enuff NDE happen in the natural flow of events .i am not gonna try and induce one.

 

i just tried to find sth about the taoist who left his body standing. the mantak chia article was the only thing close i could find.

 

i often encounter people who do things that i don't understand not so sure i would do some of them, even if i understood

 

Nice response. Hehehe. No, I never imagined you trying to permanently stop breathing.

 

Yeah, we often call these things we do not understand 'miracles'.

 

And I agree with you, there are many thing I just absolutely would not try doing even though I have seen or heard of other people doing that whatever. I do enjoy a thrill now and then but I'm not ready to die or go against my root principles.

[Astral_Anima]

Do we need this body to achieve anything? Buddhist are always trying to liberate themselves from this body because "life is suffering". Why can't they just kill themselves then and everything will be "alright"?

 

Whats the purpose of having this body? Is it used as a vehicle? Are the Buddhists trying to change the world by staying in the body,achieving enlightenment so they can come back to the world in their vehicle to transmit the message?

 

Life is only suffering huh. TO the buddhists we have no real purpose, the true state of the universe is nothing but Void.

 

Im not buddhist but I can't get past seeing the world without purpose. Even if we Do create our own purpose then what of the people who are stuck living life a certain way, can't create their own purpose?

 

Animals for example. What purpose do they have? All they do all day is scavenge for food... Well some may say it can be enjoyable. But their lives are really primitive. Do they ever stop to think "WTF?"

 

WTF? Why do we have to be here doing not what we want to do but what we "have" to do? This is OUR Universe why aren't we Creating our world the way we want to be? Is this our true home? Is this some purgatory?

 

There's no storyline, there's no plot. Live and die. Over and over.

 

Maybe I shd get more into Buddhism.

 

Nope. Life is "Dukka". Don't let these ignorant translators cloud the words of the buddha. Here, check this out:

 

http://buddhism.about.com/od/thefournobletruths/a/dukkhaexplain.htm

 

Honestly it's gonna be tough to get past the language barrier, it's gonna take alot of resources. You may want to find a reputable scholar and find works by him/her on these things to mae sure you're getting the most accurate translations.

 

As for animals having purpose, lol, forget purpose, they don't even have awareness or a sense of purpose. They act on the "instinct" level of consciousness. Most humans now act between instinct and intellect, our next step is intuition XD

 

And we may very well have a purpose. I've always said that we create our own destiny, that we create our own purpose because I (like Neo) don't like the idea of not being in control of my own life. I think we have to reach that stage of depression that there is no purpose before we can really have a purpose. In the words of Mr. Durden, "It's not until we've lost everything that we're free to do anything"

 

The body can live alot longer than what most people believe. The body can be made immortal, it can be used to make an immortal body, or it can be a temporary vessel for the spirit to express itself on this plane. It's YOUR CHOICE, what the body is here for. Once you know what it can do and you decide what you want it to do, THATS it's purpose. And purpose isn't permanent, it's "dukka", so it can change but once you've made up your mind how you want to use something then that is it's purpose.

 

PURPOSE= POTENTIAL + CHOICE

 

-Astral

[3L3VAT3]

But I mean what if you've lost all hope and you are actually hopeless, you've got various ailments that don't seem to be getting better and will never be, everyone around you is displeased with you, no one seems to care, you are nothing but a parasite for this world, etc.

 

What then?

 

Ok, you have no purpose couldn't even create even if you wanted to. So.. acheiving enlightenment, etc. is out of the question because it's impossible, or even buddhist is impossible. You're in the muck of the worldly life, and it has you trapped...

 

Dude! Your caught up in the depression/negative-thougth cycle...

 

Because you're in a depressed state your not thinking is negative... and because your thinking is negative you're having trouble thinking those happy thougts that would increase the seratonnin in your brain.

 

Please check out the book called "Feeling Good" that I recommended in another thread... I'll send you my copy if you pm me or buy one from amazon and have it shipped to you. Seriously!!!!

 

You remind me of me 10 years ago except that I turned to drugs (a form of suicide really)and I would be dead except that I was lucky to have some people point me in the right direction, which is what I'm trying to do with you.

 

Don't ponder all these big questions, what you need to do is ACTION!! Do something like go for a walk, run, play basketball, taichi, vigorous masterbation, ANYTHING... but DON'T sit around in your thoughts all day!!!!

Do some activity to get the serotonnin going and THEN you'll find your viewpoint will be mystically more positive!!!

 

Seriously man, don't give up on life... Let me know if you want that book...

okay?

[ben]

[Birch]

[2netis]

Like Chang-tzu, it would probably be a good idea to start with a joke.

 

The Taoist sage sat on a hill and said, "I know the way to overcome the Christian’s Heaven and Hell and I even how to overcome the Buddhist's cycle of rebirth and reincarnation."

 

A student pleaded, "Please master, tell us how you do these things."

 

The sage answered quickly, "By not dying."

 

I think an essential difference between Daoism and Buddhism is that Buddhism sees reality as something that has to be transcended, while Daoism believes that we, reality, and everything are all very much a part of The Dao. Daoism is very much a life religion, as all its ideals and rewards are ones that a person can really only attain while alive. In fact, the ultimate expression of Daoism is to become an immortal, rather than going to a heaven or a nirvana that can only be accessed after death.

 

Believe it or not, the point of it all is not to reach perfection, but to know that you are already perfect. Like the tree, you are already flowing with your nature and therefore are already do exactly what it is that you are supposed to be doing.

 

I sincerely appreciate your thoughts here. Only would like to say that your description of Buddhism is a bit more like the understanding of Thereavada Buddhism. With your permission (I hope), I would like to mention that Mahayana Buddhism - most Buddhism of today - is very much more like Taoism as it has been so deeply influenced by it. There is no authentic desire in Mahayana to escape daily life into a nirvana somewhere else - in fact it is just the opposite. Many Buddhist masters stress the deep appreciation and involvement of everyday life - everyday mind. The "Ten Ox Herding Pictures" of Taoist/Zen lore clearly depict the realized sage having finally returned to the streets and markets of everyday life. This realized sage has an open and generous hand for all he encounters - his mind is at ease and no longer finds any difference between nirvana and samsara or life and death. Life, as it is perceived, is exactly what he wants and he or she is most often indistinguishable from the next person in line at the supermarket. I sense that this is the same spirit of Taoism described as WuWei. (If not, I'd surely like to know!) Like the Taoist master, she knows well what IT is.

 

I don't know exactly what the Taoist master you quoted meant precisely, but It works well enough for me if I understand him to say: "By not having been born in the way you think you have been."

 

Yes, already perfect! There was one of those little trees with branches trained into all manner of distortion just down the street from me. The neighbors called it "FrankenTree".

 

Good luck!

Edited February 19, 2011 by 2netis

[Everything]

[Kali Yuga]

In short, if you are looking for purpose, then you are missing the point.

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you don't get it, then more talking will not solve your problem.

 

 

Language is the ultimate barrier to finding what you are looking for.

 

 

Ponder on that.

[Marblehead]

Language is the ultimate barrier to finding what you are looking for.

 

 

I like that.

[Lucky7Strikes]

There is no purpose. To play, drink, laugh, make love, make art, play, play, and on and on! YAYAYA!

[Birch]

I think you really want some structure there

Do I?

 

I guess if I had wanted it there I would have put some in.

You wouldn't be trying to square my circle, huh?

 

Besides, the argument about language is possibly best illustrated by the fact I'm rambling:-)

Now what having lots of cash and an awesome car means... Well I think that's very important.

In one sense I know it's pointless, but I still want it (albeit in a different form with a different name :-))

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

"in each beginning there was One".. and the One experienced and knew only its Oneness, no other with which to experience itself, for feed back, or see itself in the eyes of the other.. There was only Oneness, alone, singularly existent in the infinite and eternal playgound of potential with no other to share.. The One, is capable of only 'one' awareness/thought.. 'I AM'.. the change that created the Cosmos was curiosity, "What AM I"?.. We/us/Life are that, we are the change, we are the answer to that first primal self-awareness, "What AM I"? there is only 'one' purpose, to experience "What I AM".. 'I' is both One and Many, a simply matter of how we choose to focus awareness.. the physical vehicle, the body, is the the artist's brush, which paints the answer of Life upon the canvas of infinite and eternal potential.. this is the clarity and simplicity of 'purpose', it is to experience..

 

Be well..

[Marblehead]

Greetings..

 

"in each beginning there was One"...

 

Very nice although I would not personify Oneness.