Taoist Philosophy - Chapter 102

[Marblehead]

On The Decline Of Tao

 

On the decline of the great Tao,
The doctrines of “humanity” and “justice” arose.
When knowledge and cleverness appeared,
Great hypocrisy followed in its wake.
When the six relationships no longer lived at peace,
There was praise of “kind parents” and “filial sons”.
When the country fell into chaos and misrule,
There was praise of “loyal ministers”.


On The Decline Of The Great Tao When Humanity And Justice Arose

When the learned ones appeared, straining for humanity and limping with justice, doubt and confusion entered men’s minds. They said they must make merry by means of music and enforce distinctions by means of ceremony, and the empire became divided against itself.

Were the uncarved wood not cut up, who could make sacrificial vessels? Were white jade left uncut, who could make the regalia of courts? Were Tao and Character not destroyed, what use would there be for humanity and justice? Were men’s natural instincts not lost, what need would there be for music and ceremonies? Were the five colors not confused, who would need decorations? Were the five notes not confused, who would adopt the six pitch-pipes?

Destruction of the natural integrity of things for the production of articles of various kinds; this is the fault of the artisan. Destruction of Tao and Character in order to strive for humanity and justice; this is the fault of the learned ones.

Edited March 2, 2013 by Marblehead

[Easy]

Hey Marble,

 

What's humanity and justice? Please define the terms. Where is the cut-off point between them and the inborn sense of compassion and fairness? This stuff you posted has nothing but a dewy-eyed nostalgia for a primitive paradise and that kind of romanticism just doesn't cut it here in the 21st Cent.

[Marblehead]

Hey Marble,

 

What's humanity and justice? Please define the terms. Where is the cut-off point between them and the inborn sense of compassion and fairness? This stuff you posted has nothing but a dewy-eyed nostalgia for a primitive paradise and that kind of romanticism just doesn't cut it here in the 21st Cent.

 

Hi Easy. Fair and understandable comments.

 

"Humanity" and "Justice" are principles that are dictated by the Confucians. Lao Tzu suggests that by inforcing behavior upon the people the people lose their 'natural' goodness - and this is a decline of the Way (Tao).

 

One would need read Confucian literature in order to gain an understanding of what these two words mean to them. I will not expand on this further.

 

Between the two sets of concepts perhaps the only significant difference is in the fact that one set is 'natural' and the other is 'forced'.

 

Justice, of course, implies that laws of behavior have been created by man, generally the ruler of the social entity. It is said that the more laws a society has the more criminals there will be.

 

Ah!, yes, "dewy-eyed nostalgia". Recalling back upon better times. I do that often, you know. I remember the 1950s and early 1960s in the U.S. and oftentimes wish we could return to those days. They were good times for America and we weren't shoving our nose in other nations' business.

 

And personally, I have created my own reality here in my little world based upon those good time I knew back then. Now sure, when I leave my world I understand that most of the rest of the world is not living in a world similar to mine. I take this into consideration when I interact with others. But there is no valid reason I can think of to cause me to adapt to the way of people that I think are the ways of lost souls. I will not get caught up in the desires and greediness of many of the people of today.

 

So even though we might find ourself in a dog-eat-dog condition regarding our interaction with others, and I suggest that we must play by their rules when interacting with them, I see no reason why in our personal actions and thoughts where there is no competition, we cannot live a life that is consistent with the concepts of compassion and fairness.

 

On a personal level, I ask you to remember that I am retired and I have enough so there is no need for me to get involved in any form of competition so the chapter above is quite simple for me to live by. But I do remember very well the days when I had to compete and display myself.

[devoid]

[manitou]

[Marblehead]

...and towards the final days of the decline of the great Tao, TTB was created and it's members posted themselves to death in their endless pursuit of cleverness, never quite able to fully outsmart one another. Eventually the great Tao closed off the human experiment before deciding to start a new cycle and concluded the everlasting truth of the proverb "He who laughs last, laughs longest" - the great Tao thought to itself: "we'd better include that in the next version of TTC, during the next cycle"

 

Hehehe.

 

And so the Sage desires to not desire.

 

(Lao Tzu never told us to eliminate our desires, only to lessen them.)

[Marblehead]

Before the doctrines of humanity and justice arose, ...

 

Nice. Thanks.

[paulno]

Before the doctrines of humanity and justice arose, there was no need for the doctrines of humanity of justice. Humanity and justice were already built into the pure essence; it's when humanity and justice started separating from the Tao in its original state that they became named: Humanity and Justice. They are separate, they are no longer part of the original essence. We have to define them; and certainly Somebody has to define for us what humanity is, what justice is, and sure as anything, it has to be monitored.

 

The same with knowledge and cleverness, kind parents and filial sons. In its original pristine condition, there was no need to differentiate, it was all part of the One. The further removed from the One we get, the more these qualities take their form, and these qualities appear as separate, where they are not.

 

Manitou, your posts make my head go boom. Very deep yet easy to understand at the same time.

[manitou]

Manitou, your posts make my head go boom. Very deep yet easy to understand at the same time.

 

 

Any understanding I've gotten is as a result of inner work. Thank you for your kind words.

[3bob]

Imo the first sentence can give a false impression...

 

For the unchanging and or "great Tao" never rises or declines,

and thus never cycles -although containing all such cycles when

manifesting aspects known as The One, The Two, The Three, etc..

come into play.

[manitou]

Imo the first sentence can give a false impression...

 

For the unchanging and or "great Tao" never rises or declines,

and thus never cycles -although containing all such cycles when

manifesting aspects known as The One, The Two, The Three, etc..

come into play.

 

 

Maybe it's meant to be interpreted 'Awareness of the Great Tao' or something. I see what you're saying.

[Marblehead]

Imo the first sentence can give a false impression...

 

 

Hi Bob,

 

You are exactly correct and I agree with you. However, I am not at liberty to change that line or the concept to make it more to my liking.

 

Something like what Manitou said is closer to reality.

Edited February 19, 2011 by Marblehead