manitou Posted February 20, 2011 On one of the threads, mention was made of this ancient work, the Nei-yeh (inner cultivation or inward training). This looks like wonderful fodder for those of us who concentrate on the inner journey. It is translated by Harold Roth. I'd be willing to post a chapter every few days for continuous discussion, if there's any interest - Chapter One The vital essence of all things: It is this that brings them to life. It generates the five grains below And becomes the constellated stars above. When flowing amid the heavens and the earth We call it ghostly and numinous. When stored within the chests of human beings, We call them sages. This is so very similar to the TTC. I'm guessing there are plenty of people here who would know exactly what the five grains below are, I do not - does this refer to chakras, or organs?. When this essence is achieved and stored within us and available for the asking, this is the world the sage operates in. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cheya Posted February 20, 2011 I'd be willing to post a chapter every few days for continuous discussion, if there's any interest - Hi Manitou,I'm interested! I'm interested! Please do post the chapters! I don't know if I'll be able to offer any constructive comments, but I will certainly be following the conversation.cheya Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manitou Posted February 20, 2011 Please do offer comments - it may just be you and me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mystic red pheonix Posted February 20, 2011 Hi Manitou I'm on board to, keep posting Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeiChuan Posted February 20, 2011 In on awesome thread. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. T Posted February 20, 2011 i'll second or third the opinions to keep posting. thanks for this resource...i'm with the others in that i'll probably just be reading! thanks! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VCraigP Posted February 20, 2011 Once upon a time someone posted a link to the whole Nei-yeh. I think I have it on some back up harddrive somewhere. Craig 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manitou Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) As I look at these short chapters (26 in all), it would make sense to maybe do a couple at a time. Verse One and Two seem to go together, so here they are together - Chapter One The vital essence of all things: It is this that brings them to life. It generates the five grains below And becomes the constellated stars above. When flowing amid the heavens and the earth We call it ghostly and numinous. When stored within the chests of human beings, We call them sages. Chapter Two Therefore this vital energy is: Bright! - as if ascending from the heavens; Dark! - as if entering an abyss; Vast! - as if dwelling in an ocean; Lofty! - as if dwelling on a mountain peak. Therefore this vital energy Cannot be halted by force, Yet can be secured by inner power (Te). Cannot be summoned by speech, Yet can be welcomed by awareness. Reverently hold onto it and do not lose it: This is called 'developing inner power." When inner power develops and wisdom emerges, The myriad things will, to the last one, be grasped. Does somebody want to kick it off? Edited February 21, 2011 by manitou Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Procurator Posted February 21, 2011 I'm guessing there are plenty of people here who would know exactly what the five grains below are, I do not - does this refer to chakras, or organs?. its the edible grains - barley, wheat, rice etc. the point made here is that the most precious life sustaining substance in material world is food, represented by the five grains. which in turn are spiritual in origin. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manitou Posted February 21, 2011 Therefore this vital energy Cannot be halted by force, Yet can be secured by inner power (Te). Cannot be summoned by speech, Yet can be welcomed by awareness I guess, to stop the vital energy, one would have to be 'outside' the vital energy, which we cannot be. To develop Te (virtue) is to develop the inner power. As we've discussed a lot on these threads, 'te' isn't being good or bad; te is what is developed if we're impeccable in our self-discovery. The vital energy, the Tao, seems to be a latency. It is the blueprint of the oak tree that is in the acorn. We can skirt around it with words, but it manifests inside us as awareness. I guess awareness is the oak tree growing within us. Or not. Any other ideas? These first two verses are awfully close to the beginning of the TTC, so there's not a lot of new chewable stuff yet. But it does get interesting. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aaron Posted February 22, 2011 (edited) I think this is a fine topic for the Tao Teh Ching section, especially since it's considered to be one of the classical Taoist texts on Qi. Since Tao Bums has a large Qi Crazy populace, the only recommendation I'd make is to let them know you're posting it over here, since many of them might enjoy reading it as well. Aaron edit- I decided to go ahead and post a message over there, so no worries Manitou. Edited February 22, 2011 by Twinner Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Friend Posted February 22, 2011 (edited) Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Way Is Virtue Posted February 22, 2011 (edited) Changed my mind. Don't think I will have anything much useful to add. The more I look at the translated text the more I see too many unknowns for me... Thought this text might be somewhat less obscure than the Tao Te Ching but it would seem not... Edited February 22, 2011 by The Way Is Virtue Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Way Is Virtue Posted February 22, 2011 (edited) . Edited February 22, 2011 by The Way Is Virtue Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Friend Posted February 23, 2011 (edited) Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manitou Posted February 23, 2011 Friend, your analysis was eye-opening! Thank you so much! Taking your thoughts one step further (as to storing wisdom in the chest); lo and behold, this is where the heart is! That certainly ties in with your 'love without loving' comment; the Sage IS love; he doesn't have to decide to use it here or there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dawei Posted February 24, 2011 (edited) its the edible grains - barley, wheat, rice etc. the point made her is that the most precious life sustaining substance in material world is food, represented by the five grains. which in turn are spritual in origin. agreed. Jing is associated to the body and life. The five grains associate as well. Of course "five" is very popular: Five elements, five organs, five tastes, five winds, five spirits, five emotions... Jing as the original substance (ie: most Yin too) is developed in the embryo during months 4-8 (ie: those five months give rise to five elemental essences). Jing is associated with the the lower dan tian (of the three) and the kidneys; although this organ is sometimes synonymous with the reproductive cycles in energetic terms. Old Chinese saying in Medical Qigong: When people are born, Heaven gives them Jing (Essence) and Shen (Spirit) – which align to form the mind -- and Earth gives them bones and shape, which unite to form the body. Joined together, these sources of energy cause human beings to develop. The seven Po’s (魄) are linked to Jing and originate in the lungs. This may be a subtle reference to the “chest” but the heart seems equally viable due to proximity and it’s link to the kidneys (jing). Yet, both the lungs and heart make up the same central energetic area of the seat of the emotions and sits over top of the “yellow court” area, which is considered where the unprocessed emotions are. So “chest” should probably be understood in the energetic (and spiritual) sense, not the way we often think of just "chest". The lungs command integrity and the heart commands peace and order. BTW: Anyone have a link to the original chinese? It would be good to see it instead of translations. Edited February 24, 2011 by dawei 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Procurator Posted February 24, 2011 BTW: Anyone have a link to the original chinese? It would be good to see it instead of translations. http://chinese.dsturgeon.net/text.pl?node=48603&if=en&remap=gb )) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dawei Posted February 27, 2011 (edited) Here is my personal source book. I feel lucky to have found something online I can just paste in: Month 1) LV Channel Menses Stop, energies combine at conception>> Month 2) GB Channel Embryo infused with Jing, Qi converts to amniotic fluid>> Month 3) PC Channel Mother's Qi and JinYe cleanse the fetal Shen>> Month 4) SJ Channel Yin organs develop, Water Jing accepted into fetus's body>> Month 5) SP Channel Wu Jing Shen enter the orbs, Fire Jing accepted >> Month 6) ST Channel The six tones established, Metal Jing accepted>> Month 7) LU Channel the 7 Essential Stars open the orifices to the light of>> Heaven and Earth, Wood Jing accepted >> Month 8) LI Channel HT is harmonized with breath, Earth Jing is accepted>> Month 9) KD Channel KD channel controls the energetic intake from the umbilicus>> Energetic boundaries completed>> Month10) UB Channel spatial cavities around major organs completed, >> Heaven and earth settle into baby's Lower Dan Tian,>> Birth begins Link: energetic embryological structure of the 10 lunar months of pregnancy From book: Chinese Medical QiGong Therapy: A Comprehensive Text, Dr. Jerry Alan Johnson Edited February 27, 2011 by dawei 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manitou Posted February 27, 2011 Dawei - thank you for posting that. So if I'm reading this correction the qi (chi) becomes the amniotic fluid? In essence, the fetus' universe? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dawei Posted February 27, 2011 Dawei - thank you for posting that. So if I'm reading this correction the qi (chi) becomes the amniotic fluid? In essence, the fetus' universe? I'll have to pose the question to my teachers since I know where you are going but I don't know if that is how it is viewed. My gut says that the fluid is more like a "Wei Qi" field which one creates with Qi; except in this case it was created more solid (or should I say more fluid-like). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manitou Posted February 27, 2011 I don't know what Wei is - I know absolutely nothing of the Chinese language. If you do have further thoughts after discussing with your teacher I'd be interested to hear your thoughts...It's kind of interesting from my perspective ~ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dawei Posted February 27, 2011 I don't know what Wei is - I know absolutely nothing of the Chinese language. If you do have further thoughts after discussing with your teacher I'd be interested to hear your thoughts...It's kind of interesting from my perspective ~ Wei means external. So there are three Wei Qi fields we can develop to surround us which protect the body. See the first picture on the right. When you mentioned the fluid, I immediately had this image in my mind, of the three Wei Qi fields. I am not sure that this is technically a correct comparison to the role of the fluid but that was my first reaction. http://www.ichikung.com/html/dantians.php Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dagon Posted March 20, 2011 I think this is metta "When stored within the chests of human beings" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
