Standing, Zhan Zhuang, Its BENEFITS, limitations

[relaxer]

Standing for the sake of standing means standing for the required 40 minutes just to say you did it. A lot of people don't like our school (my Sigung's school that is) because it takes a long time to get "the goods." We don't start learning the Yiquan in our system (which we just call Hsing-Yi) until someone can stand comfortably for at least 40 minutes.

 

I have the Lam Kam Chuen books, and his postures are a little different from ours. Our Hsing Yi comes from Han Xingyuen. I think Lam Kam Chuen gives great advice, and I was actually making great progress with his methods!

 

I will probably go back to lots of Wu Ji standing. I have always carried tension in my shoulders. Over the summer when I was doing a lot of Wu Ji in the mornings before Taiji practice, I actually felt my shoulder joint fall into place. (I injured it playing basketball 10 years ago)

 

Anyway, like my Sifu says, this is a marathon and not a sprint. Enjoy the ride. If you're interested in martial arts, the first time you feel peng will blow your mind. I admit that I'm not there yet, so I'm going to go read a book in my reading room (the bathroom haha) and do a little standing before bed. Every little bit adds up.

 

 

Rock on, man. My teacher said that standing is like writing a book. If you miss a day at the beginning, it's like starting over. It may be imperceptible at first, but pretty soon, as the daily practice adds up, bit by bit, day by day, the pages become thick and the practice takes on a strength and energy of its own. Every little bit adds up...

 

By the way, I saw that you have kettlebells down as an interested. I just started taking a class every Tuesday about a month and a half ago and I'm pretty blown away. I just purchased my first one. Do you work out with them often? How have you enjoyed them?

 

ben

[Maddie]

Hi dmattwads

 

First, change a little your location when you practice (1 or 2 yards/meters away from the spot you practice)- It may be that you stand in a place where there is geopathic stress. Also,ime practicing outdoors really makes a difference

 

Second,I don't know how much time you spent practicing the first position ( what Lam Kam Chuen names Wuji position with arms hanging on sides) but, if I were you, I would just begin anew with this posture until you reach 20 mn a day without doing any energy manipulation- just gently focusing on lower dan tian on each inspiration/expiration without involving sole breathing. LKC insists in his books that this posture is really important whatever level of practice you may reach there after.

 

When you have practiced wuji posture 20 mn a day for two or three weeks, you may do the third posture in Lam Kam Chuen's Way of energy with hands in front of lower dan tien and built until you progressively, and gently reach 20 mn a day- again without any energy circulation exercise- just gently placing your attention on lower dan tian.

 

And then you may go for the second posture( holding the ball in front of solar plexus)

 

I don't advise selecting a different posture on different days before having worked consistently with each of them nor adding some concentrations or energy circulation exercise unless you are explicitly following a method that recommend that. If you are following such a method (I mean different from LKC ), you may just follow the directions in the way it is presented without adding or changing anything.Particularly, I wouldn't mix zz with chakras concerns etc...Otherwise you may disturb your energetic system and face some troubles.

 

I am advising you all this this because:

- this is what I have done myself without any trouble.

- this is what I advised one person who had some trouble (feeling tired etc..) after the practice. When she began anew in a very progressive way, she stopped experiencing this troubles and found the practice beneficial.

 

 

If you choose to do that, let us know how it goes!

Thanks

Leo

 

I don't think location is it, because when I've done the version of ZZ that I do, no matter where I've done it, and I've done it in several places that were very far from eachother, Alaska, Washington, Texas, I get the same sensations, but I must include that when I ususally begin many new types of qigong that I often feel a little odd at first.

I've also noticed from doing my curent ZZ practice that when I finish I feel like I have cotton in my ears, and they ring a little. ???

[JustARandomPanda]

With that out of the way, my teacher also says not to stand for the sake of standing. I had a post on Zhan Zhuang back in 2008. One of the members of this board who practices Yiquan challenged me to stand for 5 minutes in 8 postures. I don't think that person posts here regularly, but my Sifu has some not so nice words for this individual. Standing too long when you're not ready does not help you. If you carry tension, you will carry even more tension. Relaxed standing for 2 minutes it better than standing for 20 minutes with tension.

 

Will trying to stand relaxed for 1-2 minutes even if it's not true Zhan Zhuang help open up chi flows?

[doc benway]

Will trying to stand relaxed for 1-2 minutes even if it's not true Zhan Zhuang help open up chi flows?

Yes - nothing better than standing to "open up"

Start easy and build up to 30 minutes.

The results will astound you.

[Lucky7Strikes]

Great thread. Standing practices go much deeper than it seems.

[Mokona]

Awesome posts on standing meditations! Thanks for sharing gals and guys (See what I did there?)

 

I practiced at Tidewater Tai Chi in Virginia for a little over a month, a few days a week, and sometimes missed classes. But I started getting the super relaxed body during and after an hours practice, if the same principles can be related to ZZ or WUJI standing - you may just want to find subtle ways to remind yourself to relax, it's more of a letting of yourself relax.

 

When standing or moving through postures allow your conciousness to move through your body and settle on tensions and move on through it. Or just experiment. I had lots of fun, even being 20 in a class of extreme elders!

 

There was a time an older man was leaving Tai Chi Sword practice and I stepped out of the way to let him pass, he said: "Now there is a youngester that understands! When an old man with a sword comes walking down the hall you step out of the way." LOL

 

These helped me: http://www.tidewatertaichi.com/principle.html

Edited February 16, 2012 by Mokona

[Spirit of the Tiger]

Wujishi Breathing Exercise is a good little book on the benefits of standing meditation.

[Mark Foote]

True true, it's shameless...

 

Thanks, Red Pheonix, I enjoyed the video!

 

Also, thanks, Prince..., for the description of your experience and your school. I always wanted to practice pushing hands, maybe someday.

 

I did a little Tai-Ch'i in the park with a local instructor in Chen Man-Ch'ing's lineage, and some Hsing-Yi exercises I learned out of a book. Mostly I just sit the lotus in the mornings for 40 minutes or so.

 

This morning I was reflecting on this:

 

 

That's the Egyptian god Hapi on both sides, one foot on each side of what appears to be a representation of the sacrum, four reeds running from the feet through the center of the column and upward, two gripped like ropes by the gods, two supporting the platform on which are symbols that I believe belong to the king, or alternatively:

 

 

This is why all their procedures and even the passages of the Pyramid

texts themselves are called se-akhs – or akhifiers – they were designed to allow a person

to achieve a new form of spiritualized existence called the akh.

The word 'akh' as a verb means 'to be effective' and the 'akh' as an entity was seen as a

shining being who could come and go as it pleased. This means that the akh was not

impelled by the forces of the universe to follow a set path but had achieved a state of

freedom and ability to act in any situation. The goal of becoming an akh may not seem

very spiritual when compared to more modern traditions but the Egyptians (certainly in the

Old Kingdom) did not concern themselves with sentiment or niceness, their goal was

freedom and that was that."

 

 

(from the Pyramid Text commentary of Apech on Tao Bums)

 

My study concerns the ilio-lumbar ligaments, which are in two sets, the first from either side of the pelvis to the fourth lumbar vertebrae running vertically, and the second from either side of the pelvis to the fifth lumbar vertebrae running horizontally. I find the ligaments to the fourth vertebrae tend to engage in inhalation, and the ligaments to the fifth lumbar vertebrae tend to engage in exhalation.

 

Now, when the movement of breath engages the ilio-lumbar ligaments, there's a feeling like the action on a swing in a playground connecting the leverage of the spine with the feeling for the legs and the seat of the pants. In sitting, the feeling in the legs is returned through the ilio-lumbar ligaments to the lower spine, and activity generated by stretches in the legs is balanced by activity generated by the stretches of the ligaments that connect the pelvis to the rib cage, through the abdomen. In particular, there's a point where the fascia and ligaments associated with the internal, external, and transversus abdominals meet in equal measure at the rectus, and that's just below the belly-button. The stretch in the fascia and ligaments of the abdominals can be felt in the shoulders and arms, and on exhalation I believe the weight and leverage of the arms helps the stretch of the ilio-lumbar ligaments to the fifth lumbar vertebrae- hence the gods holding the reed on either side of the Djed.

 

This morning I was feeling the role of the fascia and ligaments that connect the neck muscles to the skull, looking for a counter-rotation of the sacrum to the rotation of the pelvis, and I had a sense of height at the tan-tien over the sit-bones and of activity in the piriformis muscles under the pelvis. I looked for my sense of place like waking and sleeping, and was struck by a connection between the freedom of mind and the entire fascial envelope supporting the movement of breath.

 

With this method of circulating the ch'i, it overflows into the sinews, reaches the bone marrow, fills the diaphragm, and manifests in the skin and hair.

 

("Master Cheng's Thirteen Chapters on T'ai-Chi Ch'uan", by Cheng Man-ching, translated by Douglas Wile, pg 17)

 

When you arrive at last at towering up like a mile-high wall, you will finally know that there aren't so many things.

 

("Zen Letters: Teachings of Yuanwu", translated by J.C. Cleary and Thomas Cleary, pg 83)

Edited February 17, 2012 by Mark Foote

[Baguakid]

I have found the perfect complement to wuji zhan zhuang is swimming dragon. One hour wuji, 20 min SD.

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

I have found the perfect complement to wuji zhan zhuang is swimming dragon. One hour wuji, 20 min SD.

 

 

What is your source for learning the Swimming Dragon?

[Baguakid]

What is your source for learning the Swimming Dragon?

 

Actually I learned it from Qinway Qigong. It's similar to what I've seen on the web (youtube) but with larger circles.

[Prince...]

Rock on, man. My teacher said that standing is like writing a book. If you miss a day at the beginning, it's like starting over. It may be imperceptible at first, but pretty soon, as the daily practice adds up, bit by bit, day by day, the pages become thick and the practice takes on a strength and energy of its own. Every little bit adds up...

 

By the way, I saw that you have kettlebells down as an interested. I just started taking a class every Tuesday about a month and a half ago and I'm pretty blown away. I just purchased my first one. Do you work out with them often? How have you enjoyed them?

 

ben

 

It's been just over a year before I remembered to get back to your question, hope you're still around! I'm curious about what style of kettlebell lifting are you doing? I learned Hardstyle from a Master RKC in my city 4 years ago. I'm a certified Hardstyle Kettlebell instructor. I've spoken with a few martial artist who loved doing hardstyle, but it made things difficult when it came to practicing their art.

 

As it pertains specifically to Zhan Zhuang, it has been more difficult for me to not carry tension in my joints after really intense kettlebell workouts. I am recently experimenting with soft style and competition style lifting. The soft style swing isn't as explosive as the hardstyle swing where the hips and knees lockout at the top of the swing. I'm hoping to attend a seminar on softstyle and competition kettlebell lifting to get my mechanics down, but I will most likely focus more on softstyle lifts--although hardstyle has it's uses too as far as burning up calories fast and really elevating the heart rate.

 

Having said all that, I guess it's apparent that I enjoy training with kettlebells. I'm an NSCA certified personal trainer, and I hope to eventually train all my clients using only calisthenics and kettlebells-- unless I'm working with athletes, then I might require a few additional pieces of equipment.