Has anyone investigated the relation between Serotonin and Jing?

[Pietro]

They seem closely coupled :-)

[Maddie]

They seem closely coupled :-)

 

Yea they sort of do.

[Taomeow]

They seem closely coupled :-)

 

Serotonin is an internal painkiller. All internal painkillers are consciousness blockers. They make one believe that a painful experience is not really taking place, shielding the consciousness from the knowledge of the pain while not changing the actual traumatic experience, of course. In moderation, it is protective and allows us to function despite traumatic experiences we are having or have had and have repressed. If it is overproduced in order to cope with pain that is too great (the response is universal and does not differentiate between physical and emotional pain -- serotonin is released in response to both), the system gets overworked and eventually depleted. The current intervention of choice -- SSRIs -- is crazy-making, most receptors for serotonin are distributed throughout the body (with only 2% located in the brain), so SSRIs attempt to "target" an organ that is responsible for 2% of the target substance processing while no one looks at what the remaining 98% are doing to the system as a whole. There's quite a few serotonin receptors in the reproductive organs, e.g., so with SSRIs sexual dysfunction is guaranteed. Jing? Think "dead jing."

 

In a cruel (like all of them) but educational animal experiment, rats were jacked up with serotonin, then put on a hot plate that was being heated up gradually, vs. controls who were also put on a hot plate but weren't on serotonin. The controls jumped off within seconds, unharmed, as soon as they started feeling the heat. The serotonin-boosted rats stayed on the hot plate for eleven minutes (sic) before they felt enough to jump off; their paws were scorched by then. I think this is the best illustration of what serotonin actually does to consciousness.

[Taomeow]

Good info & thanks for your post, Taomeow.

 

Leaving out the SSRIs, what about natural regulation/production of serotonin? And the importance of l-tryptophan?

 

L-tryptophan is a metabolic precursor. When there's enough l-tryptophan in the diet, the balanced body will convert as much of it into serotonin as needed (if the system is off, or metabolic co-factors are absent, or light-darkness stimuli are all wrong, or some such, it may convert too much or not enough). In the absence of stored pain (a mere theoretical scenario for a civilized human), it will convert only as much into serotonin as is needed for the next metabolic step -- melatonin, of which serotonin is a precursor. Again, when we are dealing with a healthy balanced body in a healthy balanced environment, it will produce exactly as much melatonin as needed. Light-darkness and, according to recent findings that make sense, electromagnetic stimuli are factored in when this metabolic step is undertaken. Any part of the chain being off will result in too much or not enough of any one or all of the players.

 

Theoretically, it's a better idea to get to one's target substance via precursors rather than dose the body with straight-up surplus which it may not be metabolically equipped to dispose of properly. Empirically, I have discovered that extra l-tryptophan (as a free form amino acid) taken as a supplement with the goal of boosting serotonin and melatonin causes a cascade of adverse effects for me personally (known to dabblers in orthomolecular medicine of which I used to be one as "serotonemia," excess serotonin in the system), and that my serotonin is best left well alone. The body decides on its internal painkillers of choice on a case by case basis -- serotonin is not what mine wants if it wants to blunt the edge off a feeling, it wants dopamine... I won't elaborate because this will take us into the uncharted territory of "self-medication" masquerading as "addiction," but keep in mind that anyone addicted to anything other than sugar is merely attempting to handle some kind of pain that can't be mediated by serotonin, for complex metabolic reasons...

[Mark Foote]

The body decides on its internal painkillers of choice on a case by case basis -- serotonin is not what mine wants if it wants to blunt the edge off a feeling, it wants dopamine...

I've been helping a friend who has Parkinson's as she switched from a dopamine agonist to levadopa. Without the meds she is stiff and in pain, I suspect her transition was made more difficult because her body must have adjusted to the agonist (ropinirole), and without it she was in dopamine deficit. My notion.

 

I'll presume you are talking about some way to produce dopamine naturally, Taomeow, as the pill form leads eventually to dyskinesis!

[Taomeow]

I'll presume you are talking about some way to produce dopamine naturally, Taomeow, as the pill form leads eventually to dyskinesis!

 

Produce it, no such luck... the dopaminergic system is hardwired to maximum capacity in the last 3 days of gestation (and being born prematurely, e.g., means it's faulty/deficient/immature from the get go and will always be) -- thence it's only downhill. The pill form, god forbid... Dietary sources? -- very few, and not all of them edible, and most of them illegal. Dopamine deficient is just another word for between a rock and a hard place. The only way to reliably increase one's dopamine is to increase it relatively by decreasing one's routine ongoing need for it, i.e. stored, unprocessed, unconscious, unfelt, unexpressed, repressed trauma and pain.

[sifusufi]

Produce it, no such luck... the dopaminergic system is hardwired to maximum capacity in the last 3 days of gestation (and being born prematurely, e.g., means it's faulty/deficient/immature from the get go and will always be) -- thence it's only downhill.

 

Wow!

 

And I was in an incubator, low birth weight, jaundice, blood transfusion, breech, 52 hr labor.

 

You just taught me a lot!

 

May I ask your discipline?

[Pietro]

Serotonin is an internal painkiller. All internal painkillers are consciousness blockers. They make one believe that a painful experience is not really taking place, shielding the consciousness from the knowledge of the pain while not changing the actual traumatic experience, of course. In moderation, it is protective and allows us to function despite traumatic experiences we are having or have had and have repressed. If it is overproduced in order to cope with pain that is too great (the response is universal and does not differentiate between physical and emotional pain -- serotonin is released in response to both), the system gets overworked and eventually depleted. The current intervention of choice -- SSRIs -- is crazy-making, most receptors for serotonin are distributed throughout the body (with only 2% located in the brain), so SSRIs attempt to "target" an organ that is responsible for 2% of the target substance processing while no one looks at what the remaining 98% are doing to the system as a whole. There's quite a few serotonin receptors in the reproductive organs, e.g., so with SSRIs sexual dysfunction is guaranteed. Jing? Think "dead jing."

 

In a cruel (like all of them) but educational animal experiment, rats were jacked up with serotonin, then put on a hot plate that was being heated up gradually, vs. controls who were also put on a hot plate but weren't on serotonin. The controls jumped off within seconds, unharmed, as soon as they started feeling the heat. The serotonin-boosted rats stayed on the hot plate for eleven minutes (sic) before they felt enough to jump off; their paws were scorched by then. I think this is the best illustration of what serotonin actually does to consciousness.

 

Hi Taomeow,

I am not convinced by your conclusions. But before I make my point I would like to explore them further.

Can you please give me some references. You know, the usual :-).

 

Pietro

[bbsoft0]

Serotonin is an internal painkiller. All internal painkillers are consciousness blockers. They make one believe that a painful experience is not really taking place, shielding the consciousness from the knowledge of the pain while not changing the actual traumatic experience, of course. In moderation, it is protective and allows us to function despite traumatic experiences we are having or have had and have repressed. If it is overproduced in order to cope with pain that is too great (the response is universal and does not differentiate between physical and emotional pain -- serotonin is released in response to both), the system gets overworked and eventually depleted. The current intervention of choice -- SSRIs -- is crazy-making, most receptors for serotonin are distributed throughout the body (with only 2% located in the brain), so SSRIs attempt to "target" an organ that is responsible for 2% of the target substance processing while no one looks at what the remaining 98% are doing to the system as a whole. There's quite a few serotonin receptors in the reproductive organs, e.g., so with SSRIs sexual dysfunction is guaranteed. Jing? Think "dead jing."

 

In a cruel (like all of them) but educational animal experiment, rats were jacked up with serotonin, then put on a hot plate that was being heated up gradually, vs. controls who were also put on a hot plate but weren't on serotonin. The controls jumped off within seconds, unharmed, as soon as they started feeling the heat. The serotonin-boosted rats stayed on the hot plate for eleven minutes (sic) before they felt enough to jump off; their paws were scorched by then. I think this is the best illustration of what serotonin actually does to consciousness.

 

Very interesting. Indeed serotonin does have an inhibitory effect on pain receptors, like an antidepressant.

But to say that this is all it does, I think it to be an understatement.

 

Just look at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin

 

I'm interested in 2 functions:

1)Effects on growth and reproduction

Human serotonin can also act as a growth factor directly. Liver damage increases cellular expression of 5-HT2A and 5-HT2B receptors.[34] Serotonin present in the blood then stimulates cellular growth to repair liver damage.[35] 5HT2B receptors also activate osteoblasts, which build up bone[36] However, serotonin also activates osteoclasts, which degrade bone.[37]

2)Dark Room Enlightenment

Tryptofan

Seratonin

Melatonin

5MeoTrypt

DMT

To reach the 5th stage (DMT) many days in total darkness are needed. Otherwise, the seratonin molecule is

decomposed into inactive by-products (5-hydroxyindole acetaldehyde) by the enzyme MAO (monoamine

oxidase)

Melatonin (N-acetylseratonin), the neurohormone implicated in sleep, is synthesized directly from

seratonin, by deactivating MAO and inhibiting the destruction of the seratonin molecule MAO

(monoamine oxidase) is deactivated (inhibited) by the beta-carbolene enzymes secreted in the pineal gland:

harmine, harmaline, and pinoline.

 

I studied the natural food sources of tryptofan and found that the highest concentration of it to be in egg whites.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tryptophan

 

Another quote from Dark Room Enlightenment:

"Melatonin is the essential substance required to maintain the hibernation state where spiritual consciousness sustains a peaceful,healthy, loving, and long life. The spiritual vitality producing the biological Jing will be preserved. The person then retains a child-like biological condition where no matured melatonin is wasted in biological continuation."

[Pietro]

Very interesting. Indeed serotonin does have an inhibitory effect on pain receptors, like an antidepressant.

But to say that this is all it does, I think it to be an understatement.

 

Just look at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin

 

I'm interested in 2 functions:

1)Effects on growth and reproduction

Human serotonin can also act as a growth factor directly. Liver damage increases cellular expression of 5-HT2A and 5-HT2B receptors.[34] Serotonin present in the blood then stimulates cellular growth to repair liver damage.[35] 5HT2B receptors also activate osteoblasts, which build up bone[36] However, serotonin also activates osteoclasts, which degrade bone.[37]

2)Dark Room Enlightenment

Tryptofan

Seratonin

Melatonin

5MeoTrypt

DMT

To reach the 5th stage (DMT) many days in total darkness are needed. Otherwise, the seratonin molecule is

decomposed into inactive by-products (5-hydroxyindole acetaldehyde) by the enzyme MAO (monoamine

oxidase)

Melatonin (N-acetylseratonin), the neurohormone implicated in sleep, is synthesized directly from

seratonin, by deactivating MAO and inhibiting the destruction of the seratonin molecule MAO

(monoamine oxidase) is deactivated (inhibited) by the beta-carbolene enzymes secreted in the pineal gland:

harmine, harmaline, and pinoline.

 

I studied the natural food sources of tryptofan and found that the highest concentration of it to be in egg whites.

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Tryptophan

 

Another quote from Dark Room Enlightenment:

"Melatonin is the essential substance required to maintain the hibernation state where spiritual consciousness sustains a peaceful,healthy, loving, and long life. The spiritual vitality producing the biological Jing will be preserved. The person then retains a child-like biological condition where no matured melatonin is wasted in biological continuation."

 

 

Very interesting.

I have of course read the wikipedia page, but I was not aware that Mantak Chia had given a neurobiological explanation to all this new stuff he does.

 

Is there a single document where he relates all this? Something like taoist neurophysiology, or similar? :-)

[bbsoft0]

Very interesting.

I have of course read the wikipedia page, but I was not aware that Mantak Chia had given a neurobiological explanation to all this new stuff he does.

 

Is there a single document where he relates all this? Something like taoist neurophysiology, or similar? :-)

 

All the info I've got comes from the Internet.

http://www.4shared.com/document/zHsKQxz6/Mantak_Chia_-_Dark_Room_Enligh.htm

http://planetupgrade.blogspot.com/2009/04/dark-room-enlightenment-pineal-gland.html

 

I was hoping someone would give us more information in here (especially practical)...

[Pietro]

All the info I've got comes from the Internet.

http://www.4shared.c...Room_Enligh.htm

http://planetupgrade...neal-gland.html

 

I was hoping someone would give us more information in here (especially practical)...

 

Thanks, I didn't even know that serotonin is a precursor of melatonin.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2843929/?tool=pubmed

[taowanderer]

Produce it, no such luck... the dopaminergic system is hardwired to maximum capacity in the last 3 days of gestation (and being born prematurely, e.g., means it's faulty/deficient/immature from the get go and will always be) -- thence it's only downhill. The pill form, god forbid... Dietary sources? -- very few, and not all of them edible, and most of them illegal. Dopamine deficient is just another word for between a rock and a hard place. The only way to reliably increase one's dopamine is to increase it relatively by decreasing one's routine ongoing need for it, i.e. stored, unprocessed, unconscious, unfelt, unexpressed, repressed trauma and pain.

 

Mucuna Pruriens is a natural source of l-dopa. Along with all the other plant compounds it seems to avoid some of the downfalls of synthetic/isolated l-dopa. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15548480

[Andrei]

http://en.wikipedia....es#Electrocytes

 

 

Electrocytes, electroplaques or electroplaxes are cells used by rays, electric eels and other electric fish for electrogenesis and electroreception. They are flat disk-like cells that are positively charged on one side and negatively charged on the other. Electric eels have several thousand of these cells stacked, each producing 0.15V. The cells function by pumping positive sodium and potassium ions out of the cell via transport proteins powered by ATP. Postsynaptically, electrocytes work much like muscle cells. They have nicotinic acetylcholine receptors. These cells are used in research because of their resemblance to nerve-muscle junctions.

 

The stack of electrocytes has long been compared to a voltaic pile, and may even have inspired the invention of the battery, since the analogy was already noted by Alessandro Volta.^[3] While the electric organ is structurally similar to a battery, its cycle of operation is more like a Marx generator, in that the individual elements are slowly charged in parallel, then suddenly and nearly simultaneously discharged in series to produce a high voltage pulse.

 

 

 

To discharge the electrocytes at the correct time, the electric eel uses its pacemaker nucleus, a nucleus of pacemaker neurons. When an electric eel spots its prey, the pacemaker neurons fire and acetylcholine is subsequently released from electromotor neurons to the electrocytes, resulting in an electric organ discharge.

 

 

http://www.greenbang...itch_11915.html

 

 

 

The electric impulse can likely be produced so quickly because a reservoir of sodium channels is sitting in storage in the electric cells. When serotonin is released in the fish brain, it initiates the release of adrenocorticotropic hormone from the pituitary gland. This sets off the mechanism that puts more sodium channels in the membrane.

 

"It's kind of like stepping on the gas in a car sitting there with its engine already running," Zakon said.

 

When the fish are inactive, they remove the sodium channels from the cell membranes to reduce the intensity of the electric impulse.

 

 

Also, please visit the Enlightment link in my signature

Edited February 24, 2011 by steam

[Mark Foote]

Mucuna Pruriens is a natural source of l-dopa. Along with all the other plant compounds it seems to avoid some of the downfalls of synthetic/isolated l-dopa. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15548480

 

Wow, thanks a lot. I know it will be hard to interest my friend in this, and the pharmacological giants will not be funding that larger study anytime soon, but it's amazing nonetheless. As my friend has found out, just when you most want to trust that you will be taken care of, that's the time that you have to be the most vigilent with regard to your own care.

[Pietro]

The reason why I asked this question in the first place, is because I have noticed an interesting relation.

 

According to

http://www.amazon.com/Alchemy-Love-Lust-Theresa-Crenshaw/dp/0671004441

on serotonin:

 

people with low serotonin tend be more casual over who they have sex with, people with high serotonin tend to be more discerning.

people with low serotonin tend to be more impulsive.

Very high serotonin leads to spontaneous orgasms.

 

 

Serotonin (with endorphine) is also correlated with happiness or contentment.

 

Look at it in order:

low serotonin:

impulsivity

sex with anyone (and I mean anyone, they can cross the interspecies barrier or do any form of sex which have no reproductory sense).

 

Middle serotonin

people become more monogamous, are more discerning over who they have sex with.

 

High serotonin

spontaneous orgasms.

 

can you see a trend?

 

Then there was a paper describing how people who would masturbate after a period of celibacy would do it out of some sort of desire which is different. But then later on (often the same day) they would masturbate again, now out of compulsion.

 

 

So it looks to me that as a person is celibate he is building up serotonin. Which considering the serotonin is a precursor of melatonin, which is a precursor of all the steroids, makes sense. As you need to build less steroid the organism has more serotonin. As serotonin grow you slowly become more discerning. And generally more stable. But everything that reaches a limit will go toward the opposite. Eventually you have so much serotonine that you start having spontaneous orgasms. This is ok, but if at this point you have a real sexual orgasm then you deplete your steroids, the serotonin goes down, and with it all its effects in terms of contentment, sexual discernment and so on.

 

Also it should be noted that as you start having orgasms, they might release so much dopamine (Another neurotransmitter, related with energy, and will), that it start to close the dopamine receivers. Now you have high serotonine, and (you perceive) low dopamine. As a result your spontaneous orgasms grow higher and higher trying to have again the same dopamine, and the whole thing is unstable until you cum.

 

As you cum, after some time serotonin goes down, perceived dopamin is at its historical low, and you feel really bad. Then you keep on masturbating out of compulsion. (as the paper before describes).

 

Then the cycle starts again.

 

And regarding the fact that animal with low serotonin jump away from a heated plate faster than animals with high serotonin, well there are multiple reasons for that without having to recover the unmeasurable ghost of consciousness. But I would like just to notice that on a similar test where they asked people with different level of meditation to move away from a heating plate, the people who did meditation for longer would also remain longer. The really high meditators did not move away and eventually the researcher had to stop because is somehow unethical to burn your cases. But the researcher admitted that he was curious to continue. Also if we consider the claim from taoist master B Frantzis that pain are sensation we are unable to experience fully (or something similar), it looks like the fact that someone does not move away might be due to the fact that it feels the full sensation, and not because it is numbed to that.

 

EDIT: link to book

Edited February 28, 2011 by Pietro

[bbsoft0]

 

Look at it in order:

low serotonin:

impulsivity

sex with anyone (and I mean anyone, they can cross the interspecies barrier or do any form of sex which have no reproductory sense).

 

Middle serotonin

people become more monogamous, are more discerning over who they have sex with.

 

High serotonin

spontaneous orgasms.

 

can you see a trend?

 

 

Well I certainly see a trend.

I also have a feeling that something is unfinished here...

 

Remember the old Taoist saying.

"When the Jing is full there is no more sexual desire"

 

Look at the article bellow. The mystery of Jing is contained within it

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17656564

 

 

PPAR Gamma is a human receptor involved in fatty acid storage and glucose metabolism.

When we are little, we tend to have little adipocyte (fat cells) and strong bones filled with marrow (where the Jing is). As we age, a switch is activated in stem cell activity. They no longer add to bone strength, but to fat...

So, we understand what the old taoist have said, that when one is fat, is harder to keep the pure energy inside bones.

 

I feel that fasting has many benefits in here. Not only do we keep serotonin and transform it into something more subtle, but our bones will be more healty and more efficient.

The "spontaneous orgasms" will occur only in the beginning (as wet dreams) but as the three worms are being weakened that will happen more and more rarely.

 

Seratonin is an amine-derived hormone, different from steroid hormones.

The later are not really implicated in spiritual development, only physical. We as humans cannot have it both ways, so we have to choose. Strengthening one will weaken the other.

 

Of course, in the world nobody will tell the whole truth about all this. Just look how many advertise Androgens, Estrogens, Progestins, Vitamin D and the other. The deceiver has many webs and the one who runs contrary to the Way of the World will be attacked, in order to cover his defeat.

 

 

I'm still waiting for someone who has walked this path to share his experiences.

 

Harmony and love

[Pietro]

Well I certainly see a trend.

I also have a feeling that something is unfinished here...

 

Remember the old Taoist saying.

"When the Jing is full there is no more sexual desire"

 

Look at the article bellow. The mystery of Jing is contained within it

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17656564

 

 

PPAR Gamma is a human receptor involved in fatty acid storage and glucose metabolism.

When we are little, we tend to have little adipocyte (fat cells) and strong bones filled with marrow (where the Jing is). As we age, a switch is activated in stem cell activity. They no longer add to bone strength, but to fat...

So, we understand what the old taoist have said, that when one is fat, is harder to keep the pure energy inside bones.

 

I feel that fasting has many benefits in here. Not only do we keep serotonin and transform it into something more subtle, but our bones will be more healty and more efficient.

The "spontaneous orgasms" will occur only in the beginning (as wet dreams) but as the three worms are being weakened that will happen more and more rarely.

 

Seratonin is an amine-derived hormone, different from steroid hormones.

The later are not really implicated in spiritual development, only physical. We as humans cannot have it both ways, so we have to choose. Strengthening one will weaken the other.

 

Of course, in the world nobody will tell the whole truth about all this. Just look how many advertise Androgens, Estrogens, Progestins, Vitamin D and the other. The deceiver has many webs and the one who runs contrary to the Way of the World will be attacked, in order to cover his defeat.

 

 

I'm still waiting for someone who has walked this path to share his experiences.

 

Harmony and love

 

Hello, thanks for the interesting paper, and thanks for your explanation of it. For us non doctors those kind of explanations are important.

 

 

 

A few things:

1) when they say "spontaneous orgasms" I don't think they are referring to night pollution, but to actually experiencing orgasms, like state of bliss. Something so common among celibate meditators, and so rare in other people. Are you sure they speak about "night pollutions"? Maybe we can ask the author?

 

2) you say we need to chose between steroids and amino based hormones. Of course you must mean that we need to chose between two different balances, one that have more steroids and another that have less of them. But no human being can survive without steroids or without amino based hormones. Beside Cholesterol, which I understand being a steroid and the precursor to pretty much all the steroids (except Prolactine??), is being regulated by the human growth hormone, which is not a steroid. So I cannot see how can you get one without the other. It seem to me that you need to play between various steroids, not between all the steroids and all the other hormones.

 

BTW, I went back into my notes. When I said that Serotonin was connected with Monogamy, I was wrong. Vasopressin is correlated with Monogamy. And Monogamy is then connected with discriminate partner choice (duh), Serotonin is just correlated with discriminate partner choice.