Video Gaming

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

An interesting article linked here argues that video games are actually a substitute for real life experiences, especially those that are difficult to come by or not available at all.

 

From the article:

 

Why are we increasingly turning to games? According to my research, it's because games do a better job than ordinary life of provoking our most powerful positive emotions -- like curiosity, optimism, pride, and a desire to join forces with others to achieve something extraordinary. Games also, increasingly, are a particularly effective way to bond with our friends and family -- strengthening our real-life and online social networks in ways that no other kind of social interaction can.

 

That's what I mean when I say -- in the title of my new book -- that Reality is Broken." The fact that so many people of all ages, all over the world, are choosing to spend so much time in game worlds is a sign of something important, a truth that we urgently need to recognize.

 

The truth is this: in today's society, computer and video games are fulfilling genuine human needs that the real world is currently unable to satisfy. Games are providing rewards that reality is not. They are teaching and inspiring and engaging us in ways that reality is not. They are bringing us together in ways that reality is not. And unless something dramatic happens to reverse the resulting exodus, we're fast on our way to becoming a society in which a substantial portion of our population devotes its greatest efforts to playing games, creates its best memories in game environments, and experiences its biggest successes in game worlds.

 

I've always thought of gaming as a huge waste of time, but perhaps it's not. Could there be aspects of gaming that could lead to greater spiritual development?

Edited February 27, 2011 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[Aetherous]

Yes, I think video games are good for the brain. But not if that's all you do. There has to be balance between playing and working. Between sitting and moving.

 

I think if we punish ourselves mentally for doing things that are enjoyable, it just creates problems. People enjoy playing games...that's good for them, and good for everyone if they are finding ways to be happy. Truly.

 

But at the same time, our happiness may come at the cost of bad things happening throughout the world. It's hard to smile and play when you know that your culture is spending money on useless things, and leaving starving people behind, for instance. All I can do besides taking personal responsibility, is hope and pray that there are people in charge who are making the best decisions throughout the entire world.

 

I don't think we need a wake up call, these days. No horrible things should happen to anyone, to make them see the "errors of their ways". I think we just need a gradual change into a well functioning whole. We need to forgive ourselves and move on.

 

The entertainment industry is too focused on making people good (their version of good). Their schemes create mind numbing false realities. Too many movies are coming out that are just completely heartless and dull. Too much fear is in the air, creating mass hysteria.

 

Maybe they want to get the entertainment industry to the point where it's just so senseless that no one really cares about it anymore? Seems to be working.

 

I envision people coming together and enjoying their time together, doing simple things. It doesn't matter what. No more desiring to drink until brain dead. No more laughing like lunatics. No more seeking temporary fixes for the things we desire deep within our hearts. More courage and peace. More enjoying the moment.

 

I have no idea how to implement these solutions that I dream of...I hope that by saying it here, it will help. I hope that by slowly beginning to live my life this way, that others will somehow benefit from it and follow suit.

 

-clueless.

[ralis]

I have played moderately when I have time. The games seem to help my hand eye coordination. My favorite is System Shock 2.

 

I am sitting in a restaurant outside Indianapolis waiting for food to arrive. Thought I would add a little of my experience.

[Mal]

I've recently returned to gaming, getting a PS3 around New Years. I was motivated after having a total blast playing guitar hero and mario cart with my friends over Christmas. They brought in WII's and Xbox's into work and we set them up on a projector tv. Great fun. The only downside is the amount of time gaming takes, but I recently stopped using THC everyday so I've got much more free time now.

 

As well as unusual games like flOw, Flower and Hard Rain I'm currently enjoying playing Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit online against people from all over the world, being a hero in inFamous but most importantly we are currently investing days of playtime in Borderlands split screen 2 player co-op with my partner. We use to play 2 player computer games a lot when we 1st met, ~20 years ago especially Diablo which we played together LOTS on the PS1. I'm certain returning to gaming has improved our relationship at least 200% (we also have a great time playing singstar mowtown and downloading new songs to sing together)

 

I also use my PSP to get 20min of "standing post" at work without people trying to talk to me during smoko I still think it cheating, despite people saying you can practice standing watching tv etc. But physically I feel better as getting out of a chair as standing up helps my back (that's also my excuse for playing guitar hero )

 

artmgs73 on PSN.

[surfingbudda]

When I was little my parents got me very fun computer games in which you had to figure out puzzles and solve problems to continue the storyline to complete the overall goal of the game. They were a lot of fun and I think they really helped develop the creative thinking skills I have today. Writing about this is making me nostalgic to play these great games again , I think when I have some free time I may just attempt to play them again

 

I think video games can be great as long as they are used with moderation, as with everything. I think games that are massive online universes like World of Warcraft can be dangerous because they're so gosh darn easy to become addicted to and sucked into that universe so to speak; I know from first hand experience, I've wasted way too many hours away on WOW back when I used to play, and I was a casual player, some of my friends played way more than I did. I think when video games are a fun social and learning outlet then thats great, but when video games become your life then thats not good and not much different I think than any other kind of addiction out there.

Edited February 27, 2011 by surfingbudda

[Otis]

From your quote:

The truth is this: in today's society, computer and video games are fulfilling genuine human needs that the real world is currently unable to satisfy. Games are providing rewards that reality is not.

I think a big part of what the computer games offer is a sense of agency, the feeling of being in control. In games, you get to kill people; in real life, you have to sit in traffic.

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[Stigweard]

I hear a lot of self-justification to support an addiction here. Pay attention to what happens to your energy after a period of prolonged gaming. Let that be your guide.

 

[Aetherous]

In games, you get to kill people; in real life, you have to sit in traffic.

 

Sitting in traffic is so enjoyable when we don't have to be anywhere else in that moment.

[Sloppy Zhang]

I've played video games a lot since I was a kid (severe drop off since I got into college), and I significantly credit that for the development of my creativity.

 

Just as a form of entertainment, it's a lot different than movies, television, books, plays, concerts, etc, because you are invested in the story. You control when, and, depending on the game, even HOW the story progresses. Your actions and investments through the character contribute to their character development, just as much as the plot, so a scene from a game can hit you just as hard, if not harder, than scene from a movie or other form of entertainment.

 

In terms of child development, I've seen some research (no links readily available, I did a research project on the subject way back in high school) which indicates that it provides a safe zone for children to experiment with, learn, and develop social cues and interactions. Similar to having an "imaginary friend", it lets them role play living life. If they screw up and make a mistake, no big deal. No judgment, no repercussions. On top of that, it encourages and develops unique problem solving skills, and can help with reading comprehension and spatial thinking. Then there's stuff like hand eye coordination, but that and other things can cover for all age groups.

 

As for the topic more directly related to the original post, I can see it (though to what extent, I suppose it depends on the situation). Most people are just never going to do something like, say, enlist in the military. But playing a first person shooter game is a very fun way to compete with friends. It builds just as much camaraderie as playing a game of pick up basketball, but isn't so fragile to sudden changes (like what if the courts are all washed out, covered in snow, too crowded, etc). Only thing you really gotta watch out for is power outages, and if playing long distance, internet connection. And that's the other appeal as well- you aren't constrained by distance. You can play with your friend one state over just as easily as you can play with a friend five states over.

 

Now as with all things, moderation is key, and appropriate amounts are going to be different depending on the person and situation. As with anything else, you can take it too far, or you can abstain completely, and miss out on some potentially very good experiences.

 

The increase in the amount of digitization of experience, however, is occurring on all fronts- look at internet social networks, internet being used to conduct and manage business, video games being used to entertain as well as to simulate. Some new concerns arise, some other concerns fall, some concerns just change shape. It's a new playing field, and sometimes that bothers people. It's not better or worse. Just different.

Edited February 27, 2011 by Sloppy Zhang

[Aetherous]

I like the points about creativity development...

 

The only problem I see in video games is that you're still constrained by laws...for instance you can only go so far on the map, you can't fully design your own character, you can't decide to for instance not kill people in a shooter game.

 

If kids are only doing video games, then they're going to unconsciously think "this is the way the world is, so it's the way I must behave".

 

They will function based on 1s and 0s, rather than from their human design.

 

I saw this in my good friend's kid last night. We were looking for a movie to watch, and the kid was playing a shooter game.

 

I asked him jokingly, "Wow man, why are you so mean, killing so many people?" And he just responded saying something like that's what he has to do. When he grows up, he will find out that he doesn't have to listen to the lies. He can live free and follow his wishes.

 

Our artwork is constrained by too many laws. We think that we have to use good paints and brushes. We think that our music has to be on guitars.

 

We think we have to listen to others, and to learn their ways...when our ways are different.

 

...I think kids of the future are going to be smarter and more responsible than everyone here.

 

But who knows.

[Sloppy Zhang]

The only problem I see in video games is that you're still constrained by laws...for instance you can only go so far on the map, you can't fully design your own character, you can't decide to for instance not kill people in a shooter game.

 

Perhaps you should take a look at The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind (especially the PC version, which includes the software to make modifications to the game). Great stuff. Even if you don't manually edit the content of the game, there is no boundary, wherever you can see, you can go. Design of the character, well that's pretty limited (can be changed, though). And you can choose to play the game how you want, and that can include non-killing

 

If kids are only doing video games, then they're going to unconsciously think "this is the way the world is, so it's the way I must behave".

 

Well first of all, if kids are only doing video games, that sort of a problem. Excesses of anything can be dangerous. So to say that video games can lead to deviant behavior if that's all kids play is kind of a moot point......

 

On top of that, the sort of argument you put forward here has been put forward for as long as parents have been around- "if they see it in movies, they'll think that's how real life is!" "If they read it in books, they'll think that's how real life is!" "If they see it on stage, they'll think that's how real life works!"

 

Learning to distinguish between reality and fantasy is important, and if you can't do that, you have a problem, which again makes the point against video games moot, as anything presented to someone who can't differentiate is going to be dangerous.

 

They will function based on 1s and 0s, rather than from their human design.

 

Well there are a lot of ways you can respond to that. You can get all esoteric- computers are 1s and 0s, kind of like how the universe is yin-yang. You can get a bit more mechanical, that even in the most beautiful music you can find mathematical quantities, and even in the most elegant words, you have the rules of the language. And you can get downright mechanical, computers are just tools that we use to manipulate the emotions and thoughts of others, same as words and music.

 

The mathematics behind the wavelengths of sound that give us music, and the light which gives us art, have in no way limited us from acting within our human design. No reason why games, which can integrate many of those components at once, would stop us.

 

I asked him jokingly, "Wow man, why are you so mean, killing so many people?" And he just responded saying something like that's what he has to do. When he grows up, he will find out that he doesn't have to listen to the lies. He can live free and follow his wishes.

 

Perhaps you're too quick to judge. I'll take a game like Halo, which is pretty popular and well known. In the context of the game, the enemy aliens have a religion, which has dictated that humanity is a blight on the universe and must be extinguished in order for them to on a journey to their religious salvation. So within the context of the story, you're a super soldier who is one of the only few who can stand toe to toe with the aliens, and you kill them because that's what you have to do.

 

Or it might be less poetic- he understands it is a game, there is no "diplomacy" option in the toolbar, so he just does what he has to do within the rules of the game.

 

Away from the game, why would he apply the same logic? It's not in the game, so why would game rules apply?

 

If a person can't even get that far, then it's not just video games that they shouldn't be handling.....

 

Our artwork is constrained by too many laws. We think that we have to use good paints and brushes. We think that our music has to be on guitars.

 

We think we have to listen to others, and to learn their ways...when our ways are different.

 

Yeah we should all just directly experience the unspeakable divine.

 

I think kids of the future are going to be smarter and more responsible than everyone here.

 

As do I.

 

After all, when they consider that they might have to live life like in Fallout 3 if there's ever a nuclear holocaust, they'll realize how much that sucks and how they want to avoid it!

 

But I suppose they could learn that lesson from watching the classic "Mad Max"? Which would be better, because then they couldn't get confused and think that they should behave that way in real life.....

Edited February 27, 2011 by Sloppy Zhang

[Aetherous]

Good points.

[leopoldson]

Hi Stigweard,

 

I agree with you, and would just add that generally speaking the same observation could be made after a period of prolonged computer using; let alone the digital distraction that results from all the electronic devices (mobiles etc).

 

 

 

 

I hear a lot of self-justification to support an addiction here. Pay attention to what happens to your energy after a period of prolonged gaming. Let that be your guide.

 

[Stigweard]

Hi Stigweard,

 

I agree with you, and would just add that generally speaking the same observation could be made after a period of prolonged computer using; let alone the digital distraction that results from all the electronic devices (mobiles etc).

 

 

 

It's not just the electronic radiation that is of concern. In the Taoist scripture, "Invocation to Obtain Divine Immortality Through Mystic Pregnancy" it says quite clearly:

 

"The true function of the mind

is that of intermediary between

the physical and spiritual realms.

Do not let your mind go beyond

its right position as the go-between

of your body and spirit.

If you follow the Heavenly order,

you will experience true well-being

and avoid the disorder and disharmony

caused to your true nature by transgressing

this universal principle. ...

The way to achieve immortality

is to first pacify your mind.

If you succeed in quieting the mind,

then everything will follow

the great order of universal nature.

The mystic intercourse

will be wonderfully undertaken.

The mystic conception

will be sure and safe.

The eternal seed

will have the opportunity to

miraculously grow and ripen.

This is what the precious oracle tells us."

 

Ni, Hua Ching. Workbook for Spiritual Development.

 

Computer gaming disturbs the calm heart/mind and stagnates your energy in your head. The whole body becomes yin ... just look at the common gamers posture.

 

 

Furthermore, John Bradshaw defines and addiction as:

 

Addiction exists in the individual who demonstrates a pathological relationship with any mood altering experience that results in ongoing, recurring life damaging negative consequences.

 

Do gamers exhibit a pathological relationship with playing computer games? YES

 

Is playing computer games a mood altering experience? YES

 

Does it result in ongoing, recurring life damaging negative consequences? YES

 

How many gamers have found their relationships suffering when they are in a cycle of their addiction?

 

How many gamers have found their health suffers?

 

How many gamers have found their profession suffers?

 

How many gamers have found their finances suffers?

 

And for this forum, how many gamers have found their mental clarity and spiritual connectedness suffers?

 

Computer gaming is an addiction with the same potential negative consequences as substance abuse and it should be treated the same.

[relaxer]

 

I hear a lot of self-justification to support an addiction here. Pay attention to what happens to your energy after a period of prolonged gaming. Let that be your guide.

 

 

Well said... I live with two roommates that games daily. I can't help but get the sense of large amounts of energy being dissipated. Where are the real questions, the real pursuit of the heart's curiosity? These games are by nature so repetitive, so simple and mundane compared to the intricacies and subtlety of walking in the park or the woods. BOOOOOOMMM, NEW WEAPONNNNN, HEAD SHOTTTT....again...again...again...soma....soma....soma... It all seems like such a tranquilizer. Here and there, fine... But too many are addicted to binary code. Pick up a piece of clay, a crayon, or stack some rocks. Relate to your body, to the dan tien, and not some imaginary world through the tips of your thumbs... BUT it's better than crack, i guess...

[Red Pheonix]

I've had to put them down altogether, but that might also be because of lack of self control. I write software and LOVE writing bots for games, were it not for that I would probably never game. I played WoW, worked on both the Glider bot as well as Pocket Gnome (I soley wrote the 1.5 revision of PG). I crack out on it though and it's bad for me lol. I would play with 5 toons at once and loved being able to solo instances or dominate PvP, having the smallest richest guild was fun too lol. No self control though, it was all or nothing... I decided to save my ass and close all my accounts. As for any positive aspect, I can most certainly say that my time would be better spent on other things. As for recreation, sure it was fun recreation and we all need some of that, but now I resort to things like masting contact staff... just as entertaining and I'm gaining levels IRL lol.

[manitou]

As a person who dabbles in shamanic healing, extraction, or imprint, I see firsthand the power of events in our lives to change our behavior forever.

 

My concern with the violent video games is that the soul doesn't really know if it's real or a game. Our brain does, but does our 'soul?' (I don't mean to get into semantics with the term 'soul', I'm just using it as a generality here for purposes of making this point).

 

If a young child is constantly cutting people's heads off with a machete, or mowing them down with an M16 in a video game - do we honestly think that will leave no imprint on that child's soul? Would he not become awfully desensitized to the wellbeing of his fellow man? It seems to follow that it would seriously affect this dynamic over a period of time.

 

Already we're seeing evidence of this on the news....kids going bananas, and then it comes out that he was a chronic gamer.

 

I just think parents should be real careful about what their kids are exposed to, hour after hour, day after day.

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[Everything]

Sure games and movies have great value in them, just like diamonds and golden coins do. But how blunt are these things when compared to the Tao?

 

When the electricity fails, suddenly all neighbours come out and feel connected. Less seperated and more unified. Their need for individual identity fails and their suspicioun of outsiders vaporises along with it.

 

No one ever cares to look at the Television when it is turned off, yet you can see the inevitable truth of your own reflection withing the black screen. The tv is a part of you, just like everything else.

 

You can watch movies and play games all you want. In the end you are simply witnissing one of the great ilusions in our daily life. When we fall for this simple illusion of TV and games, how will we look trough the illusions of our own limited consciousness?

 

Games may not be a waste of time, but the negatives are too great.

Edited February 27, 2011 by Everything

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[Sloppy Zhang]

Furthermore, John Bradshaw defines and addiction as:

 

Addiction exists in the individual who demonstrates a pathological relationship with any mood altering experience that results in ongoing, recurring life damaging negative consequences.

 

Do gamers exhibit a pathological relationship with playing computer games? YES

 

Is playing computer games a mood altering experience? YES

 

Does it result in ongoing, recurring life damaging negative consequences? YES (Sloppy note): HELL NO!

 

How many gamers have found their relationships suffering when they are in a cycle of their addiction?

 

How many gamers have found their health suffers?

 

How many gamers have found their profession suffers?

 

How many gamers have found their finances suffers?

 

You can't take the habits of a few people and generalize them to many others.

 

People can become addicted to everything. While some substances are truly addictive, other things become addictive because of reinforced habits and thought processes of the people going through the process. People can become addicted to alcohol, pornography, sex, eating, not eating, exercising, sleeping, adrenaline, and I'm sure someone can think of a lot more.

 

Somewhere in that list was a few good things- eating and exercise are things that can dramatically HELP the body, but if abused, can lead to great harm.

 

We shouldn't be looking at the target of the addiction (in all cases), rather, we should look at the lifestyle choices which turn something from a hobby or life necessity to a danger.

 

And for this forum, how many gamers have found their mental clarity and spiritual connectedness suffers?

 

You find what you want to find. If you think that you lose a bunch of energy after ejaculation, then I bet you're going to feel pretty damn out of it when you try to workout 15 minutes later, and swear up and down about how it's the fault of you ejaculating.

 

If you expect to feel frazzled after playing 15 minutes of video games, I bet you'll swear up and down that all the violence and sedentariness is the cause of your scattered chi fields.

 

Computer gaming is an addiction with the same potential negative consequences as substance abuse and it should be treated the same.

 

This is just ridiculous. Once more I will repeat: it would be much more helpful to investigate and remedy the PROCESS by which people become addicted to ANYTHING. Otherwise we're gonna start having 12 steps for video games, eating, and risk taking.

 

It fundamentally goes against the goal of, at least what I've seen, many types of healing methodologies (which includes the Taoist kind), and that is examine the CAUSE, not the SYMPTOMS. Video games are not the CAUSE of addiction- something else is, and some people manifest addiction to video games, and sometimes to other things.

 

My concern with the violent video games is that the soul doesn't really know if it's real or a game. Our brain does, but does our 'soul?' (I don't mean to get into semantics with the term 'soul', I'm just using it as a generality here for purposes of making this point).

 

If you can't distinguish between reality and fantasy, you've got bigger issues. Video games cannot be faulted for human failures any more than knives can be blamed for murder.

 

If a young child is constantly cutting people's heads off with a machete, or mowing them down with an M16 in a video game - do we honestly think that will leave no imprint on that child's soul? Would he not become awfully desensitized to the wellbeing of his fellow man? It seems to follow that it would seriously affect this dynamic over a period of time.

 

So maybe children shouldn't be playing violent video games. Seriously, my parents were pretty strict when it came to enforcing what me and my siblings were playing, and even when I was old enough to play the more violent video games, I wasn't allowed to even bring them in the house because of my younger siblings. Once we got to the point where we could all distinguish between reality and fantasy, then it was no big deal.

 

Once again, it's the same type of argument that has been put forward with violent movies, controversial books, music videos, and the like, "oh, think of the children, what will the children think when they see naked women and people getting decapitated?" Oh, I dunno, why the hell are you letting children watch that stuff in the first place???? Not all of it is meant for children!!!

 

Video games can't be blamed for bad parenting, or the emotional and mental immaturity of whoever plays it (and this can stretch on to adulthood). It's not the video games fault that you decided to play for 6 more hours instead of going to work- that's YOUR fault for making poor decisions!

 

Already we're seeing evidence of this on the news....kids going bananas, and then it comes out that he was a chronic gamer.

 

We can also turn on the news and see Muslims killing people. I guess we should do something about that Islam, it's really a problem for the children. Oh and let's not forget the Westboro Baptist church, those damn Christians and their fag-hating ways, what are we going to do about them?

 

Oh, that's right, I saw another black person try to shoot somebody, I guess we should get rid of all those people, they're just a problem. But the real problem is the Mexicans. Half of 'em aren't even registered, and each time I see the news it's another Mexican.

 

And don't even get me started about that guy in Arizona during that shooting. That boy was into something called lucid dreaming- apparently he had delusions of grandeur, and thought he could do whatever he wanted to people in real life because life was nothing more than one big dream! People who practice things like that are not safe, and we should do something about it. I hear those buddhists think that nobody even exists at all, so what's to stop them from going on a rapin' killin' spree???? Something should be done about this!

[/sarcasm]

 

You can't pick out the traits of a couple of bad apples, which can be applied to THOUSANDS of people equally, and single them out as the cause for deviant behavior. Instead, once more, you must look at the process which take traits which would otherwise be harmless, and twists them to something harmful.

 

 

So just curious: how many people think rock music is harmful to "the children"? don't you just wish you could go back to the good ol' days when it was the Beatles who were poisoning our youth?

Edited February 27, 2011 by Sloppy Zhang

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

The deep psyche absorbs things on the pattern level, so on some deep level, that killer game you're playing has consequences. What about a VR game, where according to your senses, you are 'there', 'experiencing' what is happening in the game as your 'reality'?

 

And they do have 12-Step meetings for gamers, eating and risk taking. Really.

 

Can the hard-core gamers walk away from their machines and relax and read a book? Many can't. Saw some 'Dateline-esque' program about Japanese or Korean gamers who were as hard-core addicted to their machine experiences as any smoker or drug user is to their substance.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Can the hard-core gamers walk away from their machines and relax and read a book? Many can't. Saw some 'Dateline-esque' program about Japanese or Korean gamers who were as hard-core addicted to their machine experiences as any smoker or drug user is to their substance.

 

But that's not inherently the fault of video games.

 

That's the result of obsessive behavior and addictive tendencies. Video games just happen to be what they latched on to.

 

It'd be much more fruitful to figure out how those people got into that position, rather than sit here and say, "some dude play starcraft so long that he died, video games must be bad!"

Edited February 27, 2011 by Sloppy Zhang

[Enishi]

I grew up as a JW in a small town. Had it not been for Final Fantasy, Chrono Trigger and Xenogears I would likely have gone insane.

 

Other video game stories like Silent Hill and Fallout have served as thought provoking excursions for me as well.

 

I do agree that many games are ludicrously addicting though.

Edited February 27, 2011 by Enishi