getting older

[sirius]

i don`t know anything about the average age of the average tao bum. what i know is that i`m almost 54 years old. and during the last weeks of winter i thought a lot about getting older. i felt very much the need for more yang energy - so i did more yang exercises. how do you cope with getting older? how does it influence your daily practice? - my main practice is zanh zhuang chi kung and longevity breathing. i`m very curious about your experiences.

[Marblehead]

Ah! Getting older.

 

Just read this morning that the last veteran from WWI (the war to end all wars, yeah, right) pasted on yesterday. He was 108 years old.

 

I am a little bit older than you. Sure, I know I am getting old. More pains and the things I can still do I do a lot slower than I did when I was younger.

 

I don't really have any established practices. I work out with the weights whenever I feel myself getting whimpy. Build myself back up to my desired strength and then stop for a while. I mess around with two-sword Tai Chi while I am doing the weights in order to increase my flexibility and coordination.

 

I do a lot of gardening in my front yard and the back yard is fish ponds and there is almost always something to do at both of those places. Today I am working out front, started at sunrise and this is my first significant break.

 

As we age I think it is very important to keep mentally and physically active and eat healthy so that we can resist the diseases that do many older folks in.

[Everything]

i don`t know anything about the average age of the average tao bum. what i know is that i`m almost 54 years old. and during the last weeks of winter i thought a lot about getting older. i felt very much the need for more yang energy - so i did more yang exercises. how do you cope with getting older? how does it influence your daily practice? - my main practice is zanh zhuang chi kung and longevity breathing. i`m very curious about your experiences.

Attend the present to deal with the past, meaning you witness your memories from the present moment. Recognize that your memories are old, especially those you hold on to with emotional value. The present is not old.

 

There is no concept of old in TTC. You are entering a new age, not an old age. Your previous ages are now old and your new age is new. Don't wander in the past.

 

We flow into life and ebb into death. I think the ancients were pretty aware of this and developed practices for degrading bodies aswell. More subtle or slower movements without danger of injuries, etc. We can always be filled with life instead of empty with death. Unless you hold fast to life, because then your worries will live a life on their own.

If you are filled with life, you don't need fear. Because death finds no place in your mind. The abstraction of death has nothing to cling on to.

[Eric23]

I'm just a couple of years older. From a practical point of view, I find that I just have to approach physical practice more gently. When I was doing ZZ, just couldn't get into the deep horse stance without seriously damaging my knees. Now that yin yoga is my primary practice I hardly ever do the more advanced options on the postures. Can't get there without setting myself back several weeks. However I don't view it as a hindrance, it just happens that's where I'm at these days. My focus is more on the stillness anyway.

 

On a more general view of getting older, I really enjoy mid age. I'm a much better grandpa than a father. I like to think that my approach is more circumspect, don't just dive in without thinking. These days I measure three times before cutting. And the brain farts, well they feel pretty good

[Otis]

I am 42, but I was a lot older a decade ago. When I was 32, my body was a mass of spasm, especially my lower back. I was already curtailing life activities to avoid injury, and had lost out on some useful career paths that needed better health.

 

In the last decade, however, I've reversed a lot of that premature aging, primarily by learning to love my body. I started paying attention to as much of sensation as I could connect to, most importantly including pain. Pain, I realized, was not an outside invader that sneaks into my body to plague me, but rather just one of my body's senses, designed to get me to pay attention to it. The loud "OUCH" is exactly the body's way of saying: "pay attention here", but unfortunately, our society has turned pain into the enemy, and its negation into our greatest task.

 

In particular, authentic stretching and dance have led me towards a vigor, flexibility and capability that I never had in my youth. What I'm calling "authentic stretch" is: when I listen to the pain in my body, the attention that I give it somehow frees up and motivates my body to find its own delicious stretch. This is not my concept of what a stretch should be (and from outside, often looks like I'm just standing there), but allows the actual dysfunction to be my guide, find its own path out of contraction.

 

The beautiful thing about authentic dance is that it has no boundaries. I spend a lot of time on the floor, upside-down balancing on my hands or head, etc. My body has the opportunity to grow and explore in 360 spherical degrees, without bias of what my mirror sees or what my concept of a work-out should entail, and of course, with the least self-consciousness possible. Nothing is neglected, because everything arises naturally from both the discomfort and the curiosity of my body.

[mYTHmAKER]

How about adding an AARP sub forum to TaoBums

[Marblehead]

How about adding an AARP sub forum to TaoBums

 

Hehehe. Cute.

[Maddie]

You know I had a rather unusual experience the other day. I have an online dating profile and my pictures on there are from a few years back. Now I know the story with such things is that someone posts a picture from 20 years ago and looks nothing like they do now. But a few years back should be no biggie right? So this woman is a few years older than me. So I show up and she says "oh you don't look anything like your pictures" and I'm thinking "what have I aged that badly??" lol. So I asked exactely what she meant, and she said "you look a lot younger than your pictures, you look like a little kid" lol, and I was like "?!?!". The only thing I could think of is that when those pics were taken I had not been doing qigong very long, and obviously a few years down the road now I have done more qigong. Perhaps as I do qigong and its detoxifying effect might undo some of the aging process?

[Everything]

You know I had a rather unusual experience the other day. I have an online dating profile and my pictures on there are from a few years back. Now I know the story with such things is that someone posts a picture from 20 years ago and looks nothing like they do now. But a few years back should be no biggie right? So this woman is a few years older than me. So I show up and she says "oh you don't look anything like your pictures" and I'm thinking "what have I aged that badly??" lol. So I asked exactely what she meant, and she said "you look a lot younger than your pictures, you look like a little kid" lol, and I was like "?!?!". The only thing I could think of is that when those pics were taken I had not been doing qigong very long, and obviously a few years down the road now I have done more qigong. Perhaps as I do qigong and its detoxifying effect might undo some of the aging process?

If the first thing a woman says when you meet her is "you look like a kid" then that doesn't say much good about her attractions towards you and it should not be considered a compliment either. Don't you think so? I mean when you narrow it down to that specific sentence...

 

You're like: "Wow, I'm getting younger. Awesome!"

She's like: "I hope he's more mature then he looks"

Or wasn't that the case?

[Ya Mu]

i don`t know anything about the average age of the average tao bum. what i know is that i`m almost 54 years old. and during the last weeks of winter i thought a lot about getting older. i felt very much the need for more yang energy - so i did more yang exercises. how do you cope with getting older? how does it influence your daily practice? - my main practice is zanh zhuang chi kung and longevity breathing. i`m very curious about your experiences.

A few years back I was playing bass with a guy who was in his mid 80's. I was watching his face and before my eyes he turned into a 8 year old kid. It was one of those rare transformational moments in which everything becomes clear.

I am older than you but if you look at me you will see the 8 year old running, jumping and playing.

We age and our physical bodies die. But if we maintain that sense of awe, like everything is new and wondrous (which it really is), then age never really catches us.

[mYTHmAKER]

Perhaps combine this thread with the immortal thread

Edited March 1, 2011 by mYTHmAKER

[gendao]

If the first thing a woman says when you meet her is "you look like a kid" then that doesn't say much good about her attractions towards you and it should not be considered a compliment either.

Hard to say...I've noticed that ever since Ashton Kutcher started dating Demi Moore a few years ago - women have been seeking out younger and younger men. Madonna only dates boys half her age now, female teachers fvcking their students has become a startling trend and have in general women seem to have set their sights lower now.

 

 

I would agree that someone making strong progress in qigong will show anti-aging effects, though..

[sirius]

thank you all for your honest, thoughtful and ironic replies!

 

i want to add some words about me and why i started this thread. yes, the funny thing is that some years ago, when i was about 48/49 years old, i felt much younger - because of my regular chi kung exercises. at that time i felt like - let`s say, like i was 40 years old.

 

now i notice that i loose my chi quicker - if i don`t do my daily exercises. at least this is my impression. and i notice that i have more difficulties to do the more "special" or advanced exercises. i mean postures that require to stand on one leg for some time.

 

maybe the feeling of getting older is the result of my special way of training? i really try to connect myself and my practice with the season. that means for example that in winter i turn myself to the northern direction while practicing. and i do more exercises to support the kidneys. maybe this led to an imbalance of yin and yang in my body. and maybe this led to a deeper connection with the winter season than i wanted - with all these thoughts of getting old.

 

what do you think? do you take the cardinal points into consideration for your practice? and how does it influence your training?

[Maddie]

If the first thing a woman says when you meet her is "you look like a kid" then that doesn't say much good about her attractions towards you and it should not be considered a compliment either. Don't you think so? I mean when you narrow it down to that specific sentence...

 

You're like: "Wow, I'm getting younger. Awesome!"

She's like: "I hope he's more mature then he looks"

Or wasn't that the case?

 

Oh I realize it wasn't really meant as a compliment, but I was happy anyways lol :-D. Funny thing is, is even though she said that, she just can't stop to seem emailing me, and getting flirty haha.

[manitou]

I am 42, but I was a lot older a decade ago. When I was 32, my body was a mass of spasm, especially my lower back. I was already curtailing life activities to avoid injury, and had lost out on some useful career paths that needed better health.

 

 

Ditto on this.

 

Since becoming kundalini active about 6 years ago I've lost about 30 pounds. I haven't particularly tried to, although I try to keep a lid on what I eat. But it seems to be a phenomena of the kundalini energy burning the dross from our systems.

 

This phenomena was also humorously touched on in the Castaneda series - there was a woman, a student of Don Juan's, named La Gorda. Although that means The Fat One in Spanish, after her exposure to the shamanic journey she lost a whole lot of weight. Apparently she became a gorgeous woman. But prior to her weight loss, they called her Two Hundred and Twenty Two Buttocks.

[Otis]

thank you all for your honest, thoughtful and ironic replies!

 

i want to add some words about me and why i started this thread. yes, the funny thing is that some years ago, when i was about 48/49 years old, i felt much younger - because of my regular chi kung exercises. at that time i felt like - let`s say, like i was 40 years old.

 

now i notice that i loose my chi quicker - if i don`t do my daily exercises. at least this is my impression. and i notice that i have more difficulties to do the more "special" or advanced exercises. i mean postures that require to stand on one leg for some time.

 

maybe the feeling of getting older is the result of my special way of training? i really try to connect myself and my practice with the season. that means for example that in winter i turn myself to the northern direction while practicing. and i do more exercises to support the kidneys. maybe this led to an imbalance of yin and yang in my body. and maybe this led to a deeper connection with the winter season than i wanted - with all these thoughts of getting old.

 

what do you think? do you take the cardinal points into consideration for your practice? and how does it influence your training?

One of the great gifts that I think getting older teaches us, is how useful efficiency is. When we're young and vital, we don't notice or mind that we're wasting energy, or getting micro-trauma to our joints. But as we get older, we can't help but notice these things. That feels like a curse, at first, but the blessing comes in learning how to listen to the body, follow its authentic pathways, and surrender the offense of impact. If we were all taught efficiency and ease as children, I think we would all age in a very different way.

[exorcist_1699]

Although having got older means less jing that people can initialize, and therefore a weaker ability in getting high quality qi ,there are , however , some benefits in it :

 

First, less jing means your having less sex drive than those young guys. In that case, likely you can manipulate it easier. Too strong a sex drive , in most cases, turns out to be something negative . Too much , too strong a force than the appropriate , than what you can manipulate , is no better than having not enough of it ..

 

Second , old guys , after years of life experience , already see through the illusory nature of things in life : fame, love ,prestige, loss ..etc, that entangle them before. Therefore, when coming across the Taoist truth, many of them can grasp it and stick to it more firmly than those young , indecisive Taoist followers.

 

It is said that as long as the yang-jing , no matter how little it is, existing in us, there is a possibility of accumulating it, expanding it , upgrading it ...in a word, even you are at the age of 100, the door towards physical immortality is still there, open for you..

 

However, to male who can't have an erection , or capable but not hard enough, they must first accumulate their jing and make it return to the status as in their youth.Only after having succeeded that , do they get the foundation, the starting point to "tame the tiger"...

 

For old ladies, no matter how old they are , they have to cultivate and get their menstruation back so that the foundation , the starting point to" slash the red dragon" becomes possible.

[rain]

Although having got older means less jing that people can initialize, and therefore a weaker ability in getting high quality qi ,there are , however , some benefits in it :

 

First, less jing means your having less sex drive than those young guys. In that case, likely you can manipulate it easier. Too strong a sex drive , in most cases, turns out to be something negative . Too much , too strong a force than the appropriate , than what you can manipulate , is no better than having not enough of it ..

 

Second , old guys , after years of life experience , already see through the illusory nature of things in life : fame, love ,prestige, loss ..etc, that entangle them before. Therefore, when coming across the Taoist truth, many of them can grasp it and stick to it more firmly than those young , indecisive Taoist followers.

 

It is said that as long as the yang-jing , no matter how little it is, existing in us, there is a possibility of accumulating it, expanding it , upgrading it ...in a word, even you are at the age of 100, the door towards physical immortality is still there, open for you..

 

However, to male who can't have an erection , or capable but not hard enough, they must first accumulate their jing and make it return to the status as in their youth.Only after having succeeded that , do they get the foundation, the starting point to "tame the tiger"...

For old ladies, no matter how old they are , they have to cultivate and get their menstruation back so that the foundation , the starting point to" slash the red dragon" becomes possible.

 

Fascinating perspective. Do you happen to know many elderly females who have succeeded to keep or revive their menstruation though cultivation? If so what particular method was used.

[Ya Mu]

...and therefore a weaker ability in getting high quality qi ...

Where did you hear that nonsense?

[The Way Is Virtue]

OK, exorcist, you suggest that once an older woman regains her menses, then she aims to slash the red dragon. Do you mean, regain the menses in order to cease it again, as in, going back to pre-puberty?

Curious what "slash the red dragon" means exactly.

 

Yes, I think exorcist is suggesting that by using certain internal alchemy techniques postmenopausal women can at least potentially with the proper approach and methods restore their vital essence to the point where they regain their menses, and they can then implement the female internal alchemy technique to 'cut the red dragon' to intentionally stop menstruation. This is different than menopause where the menses stops because of decline in vital essence due to aging. In this particular case one's vital essence is continuing to get stronger and stronger through cultivation, and menses is stopped intentionally through a special female internal alchemy technique implemented to conserve vital essence. In certain internal alchemy traditions it is held that males must first learn to 'tame the white tiger' and females must learn to 'cut (chop/slash) the red dragon'. In internal alchemy theory, if one can't conserve their vital essence they will not be able to advance far in their internal alchemy practice. There are different traditions of internal alchemy however so different traditions may have different approaches and practices. This is the general idea anyway...

 

 

Here are a couple of links for a bit further info on this:

Cutting the Red Dragon (FYSK)

Inner Alchemy for Women (Master Yuan's site)

Edited March 3, 2011 by The Way Is Virtue

[exorcist_1699]

Hi, Rain and Rainbow,

 

I think Way is Virtue and the links , which I only get the time to take some quick scans on them , he gives already help me answering some of the questions. Since neither can I have personal experience on it , nor there is any partner here helping me verifying those traditional views , so what I can add are few more ideas for reference :

 

1) Taoist concept of "jing" does not only apply to male, it also applies to female. The only difference is that the expressions of jing in female is more complicated , ie, it sometimes appears as blood, sometimes appears as milk. In addition, the rise and fall of it appears periodical.

 

However, in fact, hardly can a guy detain his jing over one- month time ,and up to that full amount , most guys are forced to consciously ( despite their thinking that they act consciously on their own will, they are ,in fact, act like some kind of puppet , manipulated by some hidden force behind ) or unconsciously ( in dreams ) release it * . So, it is somehow periodical, but not so clear and regular as female's .

 

* One of the ways to verify a guy, who claims himself a master, is to ask him about the way of solving this issue. Please notice that in Taoist alchemy, everything should be done naturally, so any deliberate or unnatural ways are unlikely the right ones.

 

2) The term yang-jing , of course, is defined as something contrary to the materialized sperm/blood, something yin. It is said that "what can be seen, is something you shouldn't make use of ; what should be utilized is something invisible " (" 見者不可用 ,用者不可見" ).

 

3) While guys who can initialize qi by just paying attention to their lower abdomen, why for female they have rub their breasts ? I think it is because female sex drive is not so easy and quick to be aroused as male's . Some sex drive, before it materialized , is need to help us initialize qi . However, for old guys who are lack of yang-qing, rubbing their balls slightly at certain time ( likely be the time just before dawn ; to youth, likely be the time 1~3 a.m. despite the fact that they need not do so unless they have some diseases... ) is helpful before they pay attention to their lower dantian.

Edited March 3, 2011 by exorcist_1699

[Marblehead]

Well, just to lighten things up a little,

 

If you are not getting older you are already dead.

[rain]

Yes, I think exorcist is suggesting that by using certain internal alchemy techniques postmenopausal women can at least potentially with the proper approach and methods restore their vital essence to the point where they regain their menses, and they can then implement the female internal alchemy technique to 'cut the red dragon' to intentionally stop menstruation. This is different than menopause where the menses stops because of decline in vital essence due to aging. In this particular case one's vital essence is continuing to get stronger and stronger through cultivation, and menses is stopped intentionally through a special female internal alchemy technique implemented to conserve vital essence. In certain internal alchemy traditions it is held that males must first learn to 'tame the white tiger' and females must learn to 'cut (chop/slash) the red dragon'. In internal alchemy theory, if one can't conserve their vital essence they will not be able to advance far in their internal alchemy practice. There are different traditions of internal alchemy however so different traditions may have different approaches and practices. This is the general idea anyway...

 

Thanks for the links.

Here are a couple of links for a bit further info on this:

Cutting the Red Dragon (FYSK)

Inner Alchemy for Women (Master Yuan's site)

[The Way Is Virtue]

2) The term yang-jing , of course, is defined as something contrary to the materialized sperm/blood, something yin. It is said that "what can be seen, is something you shouldn't make use of ; what should be utilized is something invisible " (" 見者不可用 ,用者不可見" ).

 

I think this is an important point. I think one should also keep in mind however that according to the theory both males and females deplete positive jing as well as qi through ejaculation/menstruation, hence the emphasis on conserving essence in various traditions, and the various approaches and techniques that are used in different traditions to minimize/prevent this.

 

There seem to be a fair number of males who have caused themselves problems trying certain special sexual conservation techniques. In my personal view people should not be attempting such things without the direct guidance of a knowledgeable and accomplished teacher who can fully assist with any problems that may arise. People should also keep in mind that there are different practices out there and some may really not be so good at all, especially in the long term. It may seem to have short term benefits but the long term benefits may be minimal or non-existent, and it may cause problems in the long term that may be hard to resolve.

 

Regarding conservation of essence, there may be other approaches and methods for women other than what is described as 'cutting the red dragon' on the FYSK site. I believe that such a practice is not meant for the average person living an ordinary life. This sort of practice is meant for someone who wants to devote themselves to internal alchemy practice with the very serious intent of cultivating themselves to a high level. For the average person who just wants to enhance health and maybe increase longevity, or do well in internal martial arts, or who maybe wants to learn medical/clinical external qigong healing and such then such a practice is likely not necessary, I would think. At any rate, in my view one should only attempt to try a technique like cutting the red dragon under the direct guidance of a knowledgeable and accomplished teacher who can fully assist if any problems arise.

 

For myself (a male) I have found that the approach of working on calming the heart/mind (emotions, desires, attachments, and other distractions) and doing regular (you really have to practice every day in my experience) cultivation practice seems to be a good natural approach. This may not be so easy or even very practical for younger people who are interested in living a normal life and raising a family and that sort of thing however, as exorcist mentioned. I agree with exorcist that as one gets older this may be somewhat easier and become more practical to undertake seriously, so there are at least some advantages to getting older.

 

Some sort of mixture of standing and sitting meditation and moving qigong practices, if one has the time for all, seems to be a fairly balanced approach, in my limited experience anyway. It may not be really necessary to practice all three types of pratices though. I don't know. At higher levels it may all begin to merge into one single internal practice whether one is sitting, lying, standing, or walking, but I am a long ways from there yet. Good health to everyone...

Edited March 3, 2011 by The Way Is Virtue

[2netis]

 

If you are filled with life, you don't need fear. Because death finds no place in your mind. The abstraction of death has nothing to cling on to.

 

Soooooo true, thank you.