YAN Posted March 3, 2011 Hey guys, I find this documentary fascinating because of the quality and erudition of the interviewees. After many years of meditative practice I feel increasingly attracted to an Ayahuasca,DMT or Ebogaine experience. Somehow it feel like a logical step to take. I always worried about the potential physical and spiritual dangers of such endeavor but it seems that Ayahuasca or Ebogaine under proper Shamanistic guidance are relatively safe. So if any of you Taobums has experienced this trip I'd be interested to read how it affected your spiritual life philosophically and in also term of actual energy practices. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SV4f4pv3Qqg&feature=related Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manitou Posted March 3, 2011 I'm with you, Yan. This is very attractive to me as well. I just watched all 5 videos. Interesting that one of the scientists posits that we owe our humanity to our initial hallucinogenic experiences; and to deny ourselves of these hallucinogens is to deny ourselves the next step forward in evolution. The concepts are mind bending and wonderful. I'd be real interested to hear if you follow through with this; I would think that those of us who are somewhat evolved would have incredible experiences. I do believe I am going to follow up on this, or at least check to see if there is there is someone around Pittsburgh who knows what they're doing with this stuff. My brain is so darn old anyway, I don't think shaking it up a bit would do much harm. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Otis Posted March 3, 2011 Interesting topic. I've felt called to try DMT for awhile; just haven't had the chance. I tried Ayahuasca last year; it wasn't quite the earth-shaking experience that I was hoping for. Everyone else at the place seemed to be having the kind of journeys that I always hear about, but mine was probably what I needed, rather than what I wanted. I had plenty of visuals, etc., but the dominant theme was intense boredom and restlessness. I do think that I learned something important out of the night, but I haven't yet gone back (it's over $100 for a session). My friend who brought me has done several journeys, including a trip to Peru, and he swears by them. Mushrooms, on the other hand, have provided several life-changing experiences for me, usually when I go to Burning Man each year. I've been guided through a debunking of many of my biases and assumptions about the world and society. And, contrary to the popular myth, the revelations have stuck with me, thereafter. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manitou Posted March 4, 2011 It is an interesting topic. The videos Yan linked to talked a bit about the pineal gland and how it's a natural source of DMT; I'm thinking that the pineal gland probably has something to do with the third eye phenomena post-kundalini awakening as well. The videos inferred that the pineal gland also has everything to do with what we experience the moments after death. I hate to throw up, lol, which is why I haven't pursued tha ayahuasca thing - plus, I'm not sure that buying the plants from Bouncing Botanicals or one of those places would be any good. Did you get your vine from an online source? I would really like to find a DMT 'escort'. I do get to California a couple times a year; it would probably be easier to find there than here in Bumfuk, Ohio. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YAN Posted March 4, 2011 (edited) I'm considering a trip to south America but I want to research more about the pro and cons of Ayahuasca. There's a center in Peru run by a French MD who's also a Shaman. They specialized in helping drug addicts rebuilding their lifes. I'll have to check if they're open to the "general" public as well. I don't want to try the synthetic DMT, it just seems to weird and artificial. I love listening to Terrence McKenna relating his Dmt trips but every time I intuitively feel that he visited a really dangerous place populated by treacherous entities. I kind of get the feeling that he's been traumatized by his encounters even though he's trying to positivise the experiences. It just seems to be a real self destructive path. I had some experiences with diferents drugs (Lsd, Mushrooms..) many years ago that triggered intense mystical experiences opening windows to other dimensions where I had dealings with really nasty beings. In the end I had to pray for help with all my heart not to be destroyed. That's why I know for a fact these substances required expert guidance there are many entities out there just waiting for you to take the wrong turn... I'd rather spend a lot of money to be with the right people than putting my life at stake. Unlike for other psychotropic i can't find specific about the physical danger of Ayahuasca, I mean does a significant percentage of users get psychotic break, heart attacks.. Edited March 4, 2011 by YAN Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manitou Posted March 4, 2011 I'll bet the experience is an expansion of where we already are within us. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unmike Posted March 4, 2011 I mean does a significant percentage of users get psychotic break, heart attacks.. www.erowid.org Your go-to resource for chemical queries. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2netis Posted March 5, 2011 I'll bet the experience is an expansion of where we already are within us. Oh yes, I do think so too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2netis Posted March 5, 2011 Fabulous link! Right, unconsciously = iffy. Another way, consciously, that is probably less immediately accessible is deeply contemplating the (Buddhist) HuaYen Sutra - fractal to the max. It stimulates exactly these neuro transmitters and just happens to be grounded in the same tradition in the Qigong Emei tradition. (Samantrabhadra) I'm looking into exactly this! Thanks for this link very much. I always wondered about this...but then I am from the 60's... This is the shamanic link I look into. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Easy Posted March 5, 2011 Hey, I've never watched the videos on The Spirit Molecule, but I don't think I have to because I was one of the 11 test pilots on Strassman's first run. I wrote it up over on the Entheogin Thread. You might want to read that one before getting on with this one. Like Otis, the first two times I tried Ayahuasca I was just bored and restless. But the third time I tried it was up in a tepee on the east slope of the Sangre De Christos way above Mora, New Mexico. This apprentice Shaman had brought the medicine in from Peru and it was better stuff than he could handle. In a traditional ceremony everyone drinks the medicine and the Shaman goes last. He sings his song, tends the fire, keeps things righteous on the alter and then starts the healings and blessings and guiding journeys for the group. Maybe it was the altitude...the kid started his song and then it kind of dribbled off and petered out. And then he started singing again and then there was a little space of silence and he started a third time and then he just toppled over along side the alter and we didn't hear from him again until way after sun-up the next morning. I imagine that the protocols on Ayahuasca in North America have changed since then, but back in those early days it was all about going into the jungle and meeting the Ayahuasca Serpent who was going to threaten the hell out of the seeker at the first of the vision. But the trick was to relate to the beast in the best of positive and supplicatory manners so as to make him/her your friend for life who would always be there for you and who would whisper transcendent wisdom into your ear when the sledding in real life got rough. No one told me that. No one told me about the Serpent. Now in the jungle and mountains and wherever, in the old days the animals were always stronger or faster or more deadly or more willy and cunning than us poor human beings. But I had overcome those human inadequacies with one little piece of machinery called a 7mm magnum Remington rifle that I traded for an 0ld 1917 model 30.06 in the back of a van that belonged to a Western Onida gun runner back when the Skins were running guns all across the western USA. In short, this shamanic seeker-spirit guide animal business wasn't going to play for me. I had no more friends out there because in every situation imaginable I had more power--long story made short. (That's background.) Anyway, back to that frigid tepee in the Sangres: The shaman was out for the count and the few others all lay around and tripped and one-by-one they all struggled outside and threw-up and came back in and went to sleep. I just sat there, bored and stiff from the cold. About the time I started considering crawling into my sleeping bag..."I'll give it another count of 100..." I found myself zipping like a bottle rocket down through some underground mining tunnel. Now that is the classic start of a shamanic journey. And when I popped out the other side I was not in the jungle--I was in the middle of an abandoned mining claim at about 11,000 feet in the Colorado Rockies. It was one of those kind of places you can find way above Telluride or Silverton. (Pay attention to this point: Strassman, when he finished up his DMT tests, told me that no one came out with anything essentially new...folks get from these trips what they brought to them. I had never been to the jungle, but I had spent a lot of time at 11,000 ft in the Rockies.) I knew these kind of sites: a thousand feet of rusty cable strewn around, sheet metal pieces, broke-up ore cars, scrap... And as I stood there all that steel started to pull itself together into a metallic rendition of the Gorgon Medusa...one hell of a serpent. Her head was a 4X5 sheet of 3/4" stainless plate and her body was a spring--3/4'' high carbon steel, one foot across. She was 15' tall. Instead of vipers sprouting from her head, it was all razor ribbon. There she was poised, weaving side-to-side like a cobra, ready to strike. Remember no one had told me about making steadfast friends with the serpent, so I just stepped a little closer to her and looked her in the face and said "Fuck off, I'm a god." Have you ever seen frozen lettuce thaw out? It turns into a slimy liquid and disappears down the disposal. And that is what that serpent did...flowed like used motor oil through the cracks in the rock below my feet. It went away. Shooting from the hip, I'd say that one worked out really well. But from a long-run perspective....maybe not. Nonetheless, I sacked it up and went to sleep up there in those clear sky mountains and never drank Ayahuasca again for at least 18 years. It was almost a year ago at the far up end of the Sunshine Coast in BC. The shaman gave me half again as much medicine as the rest of the seekers. I was restless and bored and unwilling to fall off into the insane DMT geometric come-on, dead-ends I'd seen too many times before. I stayed with it until everyone else got sick as hell and then I laid back a little. Made that time significant. And then I leaned over and tossed cookies all the way back to Christmas. A little later I shook all that off and rose and raided our host's refrigerator. Everyone else was still laying about...working it all out. In a skillet I sizzled up enough rib eyes for all of us seekers, knocked back an IPA, maybe two, and got on with my life. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ulises Posted March 5, 2011 Fascinating interview with Ron Wheelock, ayahuasquero living in Iquitos... http://www.realitysandwich.com/wheelock_interview Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manitou Posted March 5, 2011 Like Otis, the first two times I tried Ayahuasca I was just bored and restless. But the third time I tried it was up in a tepee on the east slope of the Sangre De Christos way above Mora, New Mexico. What a koinkidink. My shamanic husband is from Mora, NM, born in '43. He was born and raised in an adobe next to the Catholic church. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YAN Posted March 8, 2011 Fascinating interview with Ron Wheelock, ayahuasquero living in Iquitos... http://www.realitysandwich.com/wheelock_interview Interesting indeed. However reading this detailed interview I find it hard to relate to his spiritual path. The way he refers to Ayahuasca as a deity or the apparent absence of any meditative practice aside from drinking hallucinogenics are puzzling to me. Anyway to each to each his own / all the roads leads to Rome.... I just know that I need to drink Ayahuasca and that something critical in my development will be shown to me. Something or someone is calling me from the other side and the brew is the medium for the meeting to take place. Having said that I'm more in tune with something Don Juan told C.Castaneda in one of his books (probably fiction but still great read...)Something like "You had to take these hallucinogenics because you were too dumb to understand any other way". Thanks again for the link. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manitou Posted March 8, 2011 Having said that I'm more in tune with something Don Juan told C.Castaneda in one of his books (probably fiction but still great read...)Something like "You had to take these hallucinogenics because you were too dumb to understand any other way". Don Juan also explained later in the series that Carlos was so terribly left brained because of his anthropological mindset (his propensity for charts, research, etc) that it was essential to rattle Carlos' brain out of the left brain mindset. The quickest and easiest way was to infuse him with the mind-benders early on. Previously Carlos was only willing to grasp that which was understandable from a perspective of logic; after the drugs worked their magic he was able to leap into the realm of the right brain, where things are quantum and illogical. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SeriesOfTubes Posted March 8, 2011 Like Otis, the first two times I tried Ayahuasca I was just bored and restless. But the third time I tried it was up in a tepee on the east slope of the Sangre De Christos way above Mora, New Mexico. This apprentice Shaman had brought the medicine in from Peru and it was better stuff than he could handle. In a traditional ceremony everyone drinks the medicine and the Shaman goes last. He sings his song, tends the fire, keeps things righteous on the alter and then starts the healings and blessings and guiding journeys for the group. Maybe it was the altitude...the kid started his song and then it kind of dribbled off and petered out. And then he started singing again and then there was a little space of silence and he started a third time and then he just toppled over along side the alter and we didn't hear from him again until way after sun-up the next morning. In a skillet I sizzled up enough rib eyes for all of us seekers, knocked back an IPA, maybe two, and got on with my life. nice story, were you strict with the diet beforehand? that might explain why you were bored for a few times, the b. caapi/MAOI aspect of the brew might not have been given 100% chance to give the chacruna/DMT free reign, or maybe you just needed another cup. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ulises Posted March 8, 2011 (edited) "The survival of the most poetic beings...?" ; ) Natural complexity is sexy... http://www.futureprimitive.org/2010/07/richard-doyle-ecstasy-of-language/ Edited March 8, 2011 by Ulises Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xenolith Posted March 9, 2011 Activation of Crown Center by means of MCO releases DMT, I surmise. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manitou Posted March 9, 2011 Ulises, you tend to be so far out in front of the curve that you make my brain explode sometimes. How I would love to smoke a joint with you and others on this forum and spend a wonderful day of conversation that would remain in our memories forever. You never know. Maybe one day we will all figure out a way.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ulises Posted March 9, 2011 (edited) Ulises, you tend to be so far out in front of the curve that you make my brain explode sometimes. How I would love to smoke a joint with you and others on this forum and spend a wonderful day of conversation that would remain in our memories forever. You never know. Maybe one day we will all figure out a way.... I'd recite the tantric mantra for the "ma" plant - "Bhava na sana hridayam/May this medicine be a blessing for my heart"....and all of us could joyfully surrender to a lovely, achingly beautiful dialogue (feeding the gods with beauty, as Martin Prechtel says the Mayan way is...) Reading your heartful words has ignited a breeze of delight and joy, opening my heart, my body shaking with loving, wild qi... That would be a beautiful, auspicious meeting...! ; ) Edited March 9, 2011 by Ulises Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manitou Posted March 9, 2011 (edited) I'd recite the tantric mantra for the "ma" plant - "Bhava na sana hridayam/May this medicine be a blessing for my heart"....and all of us could joyfully surrender to a lovely, achingly beautiful dialogue (feeding the gods with beauty, as Martin Prechtel says the Mayan way is...) Reading your heartful words has ignited a breeze of delight and joy, opening my heart, my body shaking with loving, wild qi... That would be a beautiful, auspicious meeting...! ; ) LOL, the auspicious meeting would require a couple days, methinks. As to feeding the gods with beauty - Don Juan Mateus would tell Carlos that all Nature wanted was for us to notice it once in a while..... Do Taoists do conventions? Or maybe we can all just gang up on Marbles and show up on his doorstep some day. We won't even tell him....he'll be out back working in the garden anyway... Edited March 9, 2011 by manitou Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ulises Posted March 9, 2011 LOL, the auspicious meeting would require a couple days, methinks. As to feeding the gods with beauty - Don Juan Mateus would tell Carlos that all Nature wanted was for us to notice it once in a while..... Do Taoists do conventions? Or maybe we can all just gang up on Marbles and show up on his doorstep some day. We won't even tell him....he'll be out back working in the garden anyway... "Nature is longing for us to become conscious' Yeah, it would be big fun to have a shamanic taoist party: wild laughter, loving absurdity... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ulises Posted March 9, 2011 (edited) "Real joy is uncaused." Edited March 9, 2011 by Ulises Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cat Pillar Posted March 10, 2011 Ulises, you tend to be so far out in front of the curve that you make my brain explode sometimes. How I would love to smoke a joint with you and others on this forum and spend a wonderful day of conversation that would remain in our memories forever. You never know. Maybe one day we will all figure out a way.... I would so be there, in a heartbeat! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YAN Posted March 10, 2011 (edited) I would so be there, in a heartbeat! Awesome, count me in. I'll bring my Japanese incense some homemade mango lassi and a freshly baked mulberry tart. Edited March 10, 2011 by YAN 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manitou Posted March 10, 2011 Awesome, count me in. I'll bring my Japanese incense some homemade mango lassi and a freshly baked mulberry tart. One mulberry tart? Wouldn't we fight over it? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
