Hsing-I and Ba Gua of BK Frantzis

[JessOBrien]

Hi Everyone!

 

If you've read Power of Internal Martial Arts, perhaps you'd be interested in training with the author, BK Frantzis. He's holding a series of classes this month near Berkeley, CA on Hsing-I and Ba Gua.

 

The Hsing-I classes will be on the Five Elements, focusing on Tsuan Chuan and Beng Chuan.

 

The Ba Gua classes will be on the third palm change of the system, Shun Shi Zhang, known as the Wind Palm Change in this school.

 

He hasn't taught these topics in public for a long time, and more than likely won't again for a long time. So if you want to check out Kumar's system this is a good time!

 

Let me know if you are interested or have questions. I'm more than happy to talk about anything I know of in his Hsing-I and Ba Gua system, it's got a lot of cool elements to it.

 

-Jess O

 

Details:

 

Hsing-I Five Elements with BK Frantzis Friday March 18 to Tuesday March 22

Weekdays 6:30pm- 9:00pm, Weekend 10-5. El Cerrito Veteran's Hall 6401

Stockton Street El Cerrito, CA. My link

Ba Gua Wind Palm with BK Frantzis Friday March 25 from 6:30pm to 9pm &

Saturday and Sunday March 27 from 10 - 5:00. El Cerrito Veteran's Hall 6401

Stockton Street El Cerrito, CA. My link

[JessOBrien]

A few random notes from tonight's class on Hsing-I Tzuan Chuan.

We started with a lecture on the history of Hsing-I and how General Yeuh Fei was

said to be the founder, and used it as the no-nonsense battlefield art of his

officer corps. He mentioned how his teacher was very into Hsing-I as was he.

He once asked Liu Hung Chieh why they didn't do as much Hsing-I and Liu replied

that Kumar already had Hsing-I in his nature, and that it would be best to work

more on Tai Chi and Ba Gua that weren't already his orientation. He had some

thoughts on the nature of Hsing-I and how it is hyper aggressive.

He described the concept of creating a shape (Hsing) with one's mind (I).

Therefore Hsing-I is the art of weaving the mind and the body's shape together.

We held San Ti for a while to get into things. We went through the key

alignments, and how focusing your mind/Yi while breathing is so primary to San

Ti and Metal.

We then moved into the drilling element of Water. This is twisting the tissue at

one level, and spiraling the energy on another level. Like the funnel shape of

water moving, but with the crashing power of a wave.

Like lightning striking swiftly and surely.

We did drills to train twisting the tissue, and drilling up the center line, to

use progressively more of your body to help power the action.

To start with there are 2 versions of Drilling Fist. A sudden shocking upper

cut, and a more twisty version which seeks space between opponents defenses

intuitively.

The fist is formed by wrapping the palm and fingers in a sort of spiral, unlike

the Pi Chuan fist which focuses more on extending the fingers and closing them

to the palm. He demonstrated how both can be used to grasp flesh and make

someone scream in pain.

Drilling Fist is meant to help develop an etheric sense of your opponent,

extending your senses outside yourself, particularly hearing, to gather

intelligence and subtle clues about their actions.

To Drill, you twist from your Kidneys up your arms to your fists, this helps

activate your Kidneys and energize them. Depression and fear are dysfunctions of

the Kidneys, therefore you can use Drilling Fist to become brave and optimistic.

He said some teachers use the Five Elements just as a naming convention for

their moves, whereas others combine it with Five Element Theory and experience

the actual elemental energies with each fist and within each fist. You bring

the sense of that element to life as you preform the movement.

He talked about how you eventually bring the Five Elements into each of the

Hsing-I fists and learn to shift instantly and effortlessly between them as the

situation dictates. This is beyond the Linking Form of putting a lot of moves in

a row, and the 12 Animal Shapes which are all combinations of the Five Elements.

Liu Hung Chieh was very focused on how the elements came to life withing

Hsing-I. Wang Shu Jin was too, but he never talked about it much. He never

talked much in general, he wanted to DO, not to talk! And Hong Yi Hsiang didn't

care either way, he didn't have much use for energetics and such.

 

JessO

[JessOBrien]

Today we delved deeper into Tzuan Chuan the Drilling Fist.

Water can be destructive like a tsunami, where the earth shifts, water falls into the newly opened space, then when it bounces off of the sea bottom it can become a massive wave. The Water of Drilling Fist is when you drop your body's energy and then the bounce back up can propel your attack with great speed and power.

We used the downward pulling hand to drive the upward drilling hand, then use a final twist to conserve momentum and pull down again, driving the other hand up.

We did the stepping for the move as well, a slight sidestep with the front foot as your hand over turns, feet come together, then drill as you step. He emphasized how your hand, foot and body all stop at once in order to deliver maximum power and with your whole body unified. He did a bunch of uppercuts on us to emphasize short and long types of power.

Short, medium and long size Hsing-I are stages within Hsing-I training where your movements take a different size. Small tight Hsing-i San Ti was done by Hong Yi Xiang who liked to twist a huge amount inward. Whereas Liu Hung Chieh was short so he used a long and open Tzuan Chuan with a lot of extension. All three ways of doing Hsing-I are needed in the long run for a well rounded practitioner.

He led the class up and down the hall doing Tzuan Chuan in various format, just the foot work, or doing the same side or alternating sides.

We also took a little time to work on the shape of the Tai Xing Animal Form, which includes elements of Beng and Tzuan along with Pao Chuan stepping. He showed us the form and the various applications of each part of the form. This was Liu Hung Chieh's favorite animal form.

He demonstrated how to incorporate Bend the Bow neigung into Tzuan Chuan, how the compressing downward arm coincides with the bending of the spine, then releasing the spine as you step forward and drill.

Of course there was much more to it, in terms of how you can maximize the health benefits by opening up your body, various microalignments, focusing your mind on different aspects of the form to develop your intent, etc.

Overall, a fun day of training!

Jess O

[Creation]

Hi Jess.

 

Just wanted to stop in and let you know I'm enjoying you posts here.

 

Thanks.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Hi Jess.

 

Just wanted to stop in and let you know I'm enjoying you posts here.

 

Thanks.

 

Likewise!

[JessOBrien]

Today we completed the stepping and turn around for Tzuan Chuan. We worked a lot on the twisting up movement of this form trying to use the whole body.

At the end of Tzuan Chuan you can end with an additional extension, then retraction. Liu Hung Chieh used to do it this way because he was so short.

On the turn around you drill, then turn the waist inward until you turn 180 degrees and then advance and drill with the other side.

We used Drill as a defense as well as offense. One of Hsing-I's special trainings is to make every move an offense and a defense simultaneously rather than more conventional block then hit strategies.

The Water Element that pervades this move requires you to train your awareness so that it opens to everything all around you, rather than the more forward focused Metal Element of Pi Chuan.

 

We then started on the Crushing Fist, Beng Chuan.

Beng Chuan uses Wood Energy, the element of growing, unstoppable slow growth where an acorn can break up through concrete and grow into a huge tree.

The fist of Beng Chuan is empty inside, with a hard shell. Expand the energy in your palm to pervade your hand then arms. Advance and use your shoulder blades to drive the fist forward.

Train so that as each punch goes out, the other hand pulls back, as if there was a cable between them that you could pull back and forth. This gives extra stability to the strike.

Close down your elbows and sink your energy into your tan tian. Tan Tian pulls you forward to add to your momentum. Combine everything into that one strike.

The first strike is done with full step. The hand drives through the target with long power, sending them stumbling back as you fill in their space, expanding through them.

The second strike follows up as your back foot comes forward flush with the front. This gives a more short power, sudden, closing and condensing punch. More damage to the internal organs.

We ended with the standing Beng Chuan drilling over and over your arms to try and create sensitivity in the forearms and wrists so you can more easily stick to and crush your opponents arms.

Beng Chuan has the strategy of smothering, overwhelming and invading your opponent with straight punches, so that you enter every gap and he cannot respond. Only hit a defenseless person.

We looked at Hu Xing, the Tiger Form of Hsing-I. As you advance, gather to your Tan Tian, drill up with both hands and double Pi Chuan.

Each sudden attack can be used to crush foe down, blast him back, scrape and claw down his flesh, or thrust your hands into the flesh of his vital areas with Dian Xue. We got to experience all of these first hand and it was quite ferocious! This form and Tai Xing from yesterday both use lots of Tzuan Chuan and Beng Chuan in their execution.

As always, this is just my random highlights, there was much more to it that I forgot!

Jess O

[JessOBrien]

No doubt guys, thanks, I'll try to keep posting some of my impressions, it's been fun training all day, no better way to spend a Sunday!

 

Jess O

[Baguakid]

Hey Jess,

 

Just curious but why do the references to some of the Chinese in your posts use the WadeGiles format rather than pinyin? WadeGiles is so outdated and difficult to reference.

 

Thanks,

Edited March 21, 2011 by Baguakid

[devoid]

Hi Jess,

 

Many thanks for posting all this while still so fresh in memory. Sounds like you guys had a great time. In the IMA, Xingyiquan was my first love and thus I really enjoyed reading your recount on the details that make it so special - sounds like this is one of your favorites as well

 

By the way, I always wanted to thank you for publishing the book Nei Jia Quan - I found it to be a great source of inspiration.

 

Just one question related to the Xingyiquan you practiced this weekend: From your description, it sounds like Hebei style, Sun Lutang variant? In case you don't know, perhaps you could tell me if the Heng Quan (Earth Elemental Fist) of the style is straight line or zig-zag (like Pao Quan)? Sorry for the many questions

[Harold]

Hello Jess,

thanks from me also,

real informative , reading your review.

Sounds like you get a lot of insights into the details of this quan that are rarely taught .

I wished I could have been there, but America is a long way from here, and this time I couldn`t afford.

 

I learn Hebei style from a student of Luo De Xiu and Wu Guangxian.

Also I practice the watermethod.

 

Until now Bruce holds the HsingYi courses in the US only, so I guess I have to wait.

 

Would you comment on the way that you practice SanTi ?

I`d like to add it to my practices, but in my school the Santishi isn`t taught as a standing practice and I never asked my teacher about it.

 

Keep on the good work.

[JessOBrien]

Hi all,

Baguakid, since I've spent a bit of time in Taiwan I've always had a preference for the ROC way of spelling and not the PRC. But mostly I just spell randomly, sorry for that.

 

Devoid, thanks for that! Glad you liked the book, it was a fun project, there's some great teachers out there. Bruce is teaching the Hsing-I of Liu Hung Chieh in this class, his teacher was Li Yunshan a contemporary of Sun Lu Tangs, and Liu himself met and trained with Sun Lu Tang as well as Shang Yun Xiang, who's student Jin Yun Ting was also a mentor to Liu. So he was lucky to meet and practice with a big group of top teachers during a very unusual era in history before the war.

 

Liu's Heng Chuan has diagonal stepping, but quite a bit more complicated than that of Pao Chuan, very hard to describe in words, but the front foot steps across your body sort of to begin the form.

 

Harold, great to hear you are training in Luo De Xiu's line, that's an awesome system! Hope you get to practice with him soon, he is one of the best I've ever seen. Bruce is very much into San Ti, his first teacher Wang Shu Jin really impressed on him that it's the primary training method. Whereas Hong Yi Xiang liked it but wasn't quite as obsessed, according to Bruce. If you get a chance to do Hsing-I with Luo Laoshi, he can give you all the San Ti directions you'll need!!!

 

Will post more tonight after class.

Jess O

[devoid]

Hi Jess,

 

Many thanks for the clarification on the style as trained by the titans

 

I didn't mean to suggest that the footwork of Heng Quan should be anything like Pao Quan. Sorry for not making that clear, please allow me to clarify: In the styles I have had privilege to till now, in fact the Heng Quan footwork has been quite similar between the linages and I agree it's not easily described in writing.

 

The difference between the style variants is in the line of attack (following either body or fist): E.g. in the Sun Lutang style, the practitioner moves forward (with the body) in a straight line (which means that the punches are not thrown on the same line - instead, the punches thrown by the left is on one line which is parallel to the line of those thrown by the right fist). This stands in contrast to the general Hebei tradition in which the tactic is to move the body slightly off center line (hence the reference to the zig-zag) to ensure that each Heng Quan punch (right and left) are executed on the same line of attack.

 

I speculate that the Sun Lutang strategy for Heng Quan makes it predominantly a defensive maneuver which helps open up the opponent for throwing the next punch center on (such as e.g. a Beng Quan which I guess was really one of Sun Lutang's all-time favorites) while the traditional Hebei strategy suggests a more balanced Heng Quan with equal shares of offense and defense (much like the other elemental fists).

 

Sorry if that got a bit long.

[orb]

After many years of honest training in Bagua you can develop an amazing skill...

 

 

 

[JessOBrien]

Hi Orb,

This is just a course review, so probably not a great place for an ongoing critique of IMA.

We aren't doing any training for competitive fighting in this class, so probably not much of interest for you. I like to spar with people of many/any style, all IMA people should spar and Muay Thai is a great style to spar against, you can learn a lot quickly. I don't train for competition.

 

I suggested before that you visit George Wood in VA, he can quickly get you up to speed on how to use Ba Gua for ring fighting, he has an excellent program for stand up fighting and conditioning. http://www.yizongbagua.com/

 

On the west coast Tim Cartmell is from the same school, and he trains guys for MMA using strictly IMA for stand up, and BJJ for ground. They do pretty well. http://www.shenwu.com/

 

Anyways, let me know how your visit went and perhaps make a thread here to discuss it.

 

Jess O

[JessOBrien]

HI Devoid,

 

Cool, Heng Chuan is done in many variations, I think it's a deep principle that takes many forms. The way Bruce does it from Liu Hung Chieh has an extra step that makes it quite different from any others I've seen.

 

Say you have your left foot forward and are Crossing with your right fist. Your first step is with the left foot to the right corner, crossing your own body. Then the right foot steps through to the right corner, while the left fist does Crossing striking to the front.

 

Hard to visualize across the net I know!

 

Take care,

Jess O

[devoid]

Hi Jess,

 

Yes, there's a lot of truth in the proverb: the devil is in the detail - this is especially true for martial arts.

 

I'll try to contact you next time I'm in the Bay Area so you can show me in person

[zerostao]

After many years of honest training in Bagua you can develop an amazing skill...

 

 

 

i didnt notice any baguazhang here. i didnt see any evidence of any bagua training.

JessOBrien i am enjoying your thread. thanks for posting. xingyiquan = very cool

[JessOBrien]

Last night we finished work on Beng Chuan and its various stepping patterns.

We visualized the body sensation of doing Beng Chuan. Then we stood up and continued visualizing. Then when he called it, we all started doing it physically. Then shifted back to mental only. Then to physical. Back and forth between feeling it in your body, then actually doing it.

He said that sometimes Wang Shu Jin would have them suddenly shift from San Ti to Tzuan Chuan or Beng Chuan. This is to teach your mind to stay fully present and change instantly from inaction to action, which is part of Hsing-I's focus on the mind making the shapes that you transform your body into.

We worked on the stepping pattern he learned during his time at Hung Yi Xiang's, which is to advance with one side forward, then follow step with a second punch using the back hand. You do the same side forward then switch and come back the other way.

We then looked at Wang Shu Jin's method which is to advance one foot and punch with the back hand, then step with the other foot and punch with the other hand, always punching with the back hand. That was one of Wang's favorite strikes, smothering with his front hand and crushing the opponent with his back hand. Wang also liked to let a guy punch him in the stomach full force, and drop his energy so that the punch did no damage. At the instant of impact he would Beng Chuan the guy punching him and steal the force in such a way as it would rock the guy suddenly. Wang had been in many high-risk fights and his every technique was designed for maximum damage, only the highest stakes would matter to him.

Bruce spoke on how Hong Yi Xiang had a hot temper that would burst into flame with a moments notice, his gravelly voice was the perfect expression of his personality. He was severe and yelled at his students with the slightest provocation. Whereas Wang Shu Jin was very cool tempered, his anger was slow to rouse, but when it did you better run for cover because he was not easily appeased when in a rage. Apparently most Hsing-I people have a temper in there somewhere, and that is something that influences how they teach and train.

We went on to do the Beng Chuan that Liu Hung Chieh did, which involves the Flying Step. Because he was short and small, he had to cover a lot of ground to hit. So with each Beng Chuan you step forward a long way. Punch left and step left, punch right and step right, without a punch from the back foot. Bruce demonstrated moving a long ways with one step, and even though he is a very heavy guy, he was able to cover a huge amount of ground and punch me in the throat in one step.

We spent a lot of time on the subtle circle that the arm makes right before you land the Beng Chuan. It's like taking your forearm and circling it in space from the outside over to the inside. This is to teach a magnetic sticking of your arm to your opponent as you advance. He showed repeatedly how the Hsing-I punches are meant as close range sticking strikes, as opposed to outside range jabs and tests that other arts might use. With Beng your arm makes very small circles at multiple points so you are able to contact, stick, change the angle and strike hard all pretty much instantaneously. It's very cool and can be used to open up the inside of the person quite effectively. However it takes a lot of practice!

We did a lot of scraping forearm over forearm on ourselves and on our partners, and many arms were rubbed raw by the end of the night.

Well, just this quite note, there was much more but I'm at work and gotta jam!

Jess O

Edited March 22, 2011 by JessOBrien

[JessOBrien]

Final Hsing-I class in this series last night, we had a good time with a variety of exercises.

Bruce talked a bit about the training of the elements. He said to use Metal to develop Yi and concentration. Then use Water to build up your sensations to everything outside of you, as well as inside. Wood is the element you use once you find the target, by growing, penetrating and entering into it.

We worked on a variant of the Beng Chuan follow step punch. Instead of stomping and crushing as you complete the form, your follow step pulls in and lightly sets down as you strike. This gives it a nice lifting, drifting, floating sense. The punch is as hard as ever, but it has a nuance to it that gives it some extra umph. It's ideal for when you are smothering someone with a bunch of strikes, so you are close, then you bring in the back foot and simultaneously find a nice hole in the defense to sink this soft yet dense punch right into it. Hard to describe but hard to forget once you get hit with it!

We worked on trying to recycle Beng Chuan over and over as a defense/offense, entering their space with a flurry of blows, no emotion just an overwhelming Intention to take their space. As they block and defend, more and more gaps appear.

He showed us the idea of Rending, once you make contact, twisting, crushing and dispersing the enemy's energy. When I came at him, he would contact me, then shift his body in a subtle way that would twist my attack off angle and spoil my line of force, setting up his retaliation. Not much movement required, but it doesn't work if you are scared or intimidated.

The biggest focus of the night was the Beng Chuan turn around, which is composed of a 180 turn, split in a crouched stance, then a series of Beng Chuans and forward and back cross-steps while punching. The point is to end up going the opposite direction, but it takes quite a bit of shuffling around. The turn is simple, just pivot your feet to turn 180. Then you drill up with hand and foot, take a big step and split, ending up in a forward weighted crouching stance. This is Wildcat Climbs the Tree. We worked on this for a while as a skill for chasing and running down your opponent. This step is big, long and final, your whole body weight comes into their body, hip, knee, ankle or foot as you do a big Pi Chuan. He showed us how to charge and demolish someone as they back up and try to escape. No matter how fast I ran backwards, he was all over me in a flash, he was moving really fast for a large man...

This move is followed by a series of forward and backward Beng Chuans. He showed multiple different ways of doing the turn around, and that made it pretty hard to settle on one specific way, but in the end he showed us the most regular form of doing it, which is the one we've been doing in class, and we'll stick to that.

We worked a bit on Ma Xing, the Horse Form from the 12 Animal Forms. He showed us three different ways of doing it, the first two use the zig zag stepping of Pao Chuan. One is to strike with both fists forward, elbows down as if horse hooves are chopping into the enemy. The second is the same but both hands drill out forward in upside down Tzuan Chuan strikes, he said this is like holding the reins of a horse and controlling it with the twisting of your arms. The third version is done in a straight line, striking with a front punch and high block with the back hand. This is the horse jumping over a ditch.

Spiritual martial arts was another topic of the night. He said that he hasn't really taught that, and is not sure if there will ever be a chance to. For him, this topic is like taking martial arts and combining it with Taoist meditation, so it's at least twice as hard as regular martial arts. Take all the body training, fighting, sparring, challenge matches, street fighting, etc of martial arts and then add all the hours of meditation that pursuing spirituality requires. It's not for most people, regular martial arts is hard enough. But he did feel that many principles from this can be used by us average folks who aren't pursuing it full time.

One aspect of spiritual martial arts is that of doing good by not hurting people more than they need hurting. He said it's possible to knock sense into someone, to slay the demon inside them without killing them. We started this a little by punching each other with a sense of positive, good feeling and see if we can transfer that with our strike. I couldn't but it's certainly an interesting idea!

He talked a lot about the energies of Fear and Anger as they relate to Water and Wood. Once you get the body skill of Hsing-I you can start to use the forms to draw out emotions within your body and expose them to the light of day. Then in combat your emotions arise and again, you identify them and expose them to the light. What happens then is that they naturally complete their cycle, run out of energy and evaporate. Emotions trapped and buried eventually burst out with a huge explosion, so to prevent that use Hsing-I to let them rise to the outside and return to the field, much as a bubble rises to the top of the ocean and pops at the surface, rejoining it's natural state.

We finished by practicing as a group, and he led us through some lines of Tzuan Chuan and Beng Chuan.

He gave a lecture at the end about how Liu Hung Chieh would practice the Five Elements of Hsing-I every single day of his life, Ba Gua or Tai Chi came second. He felt that Hsing-I could keep your chi strong and keep your movements robust throughout your life.

That's it for Hsing-I stay tuned for Ba Gua Shun Shi Zhang training this weekend!

Jess O

[Sloppy Zhang]

Awesome stuff!