al. Posted March 4, 2011 (edited) One of the things that was brought back to me the other day was how within indigenous cultures, the ceremonies that initiate the youth into adulthood were considered hugely important, for many reasons. Â In modern culture, this form of initiation is for the most part not only lacking, but also it would seem that this lack is causing a whole lot of problems. Â So, it would be interesting to hear some thoughts about this. Was there a defining moment in your life that shifted you from being a kid to being an adult? What changed? Â For the most part, it seems that instead of one definite move into adulthood, we, as moderners/westerners make many little steps, backtracking here and there, and often end up as people of adult age, who have some or many immature aspects to ourselves. Â From my understanding, the time when indigenous communities decided a certain youth needed to go through their rite of passage, was very much related to when they started showing strong interest in the opposite sex. It also seems to be very much tied into our relationships with our parents and learning how to live independently from them. (something which is also another layer of initiation for the parents and mother particularly). Â So it is not the concept of shedding one's childhood and transforming into an adult, but adding a new layer to the circle, kind of like a ring within the trunk of a tree. Â In every culture things are done differently, so it is interesting to ask how this kind of thing featured in Eastern cultures. The trinity of Confucianism/Daoism/Buddhism seems to offer quite a different take on it, with the emphasis not so much on being an adult, but on the cultivation of the spiritual awakening and learning to live according to it's virtue... Â What are you thoughts/experiences? Edited March 4, 2011 by al. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thelerner Posted March 6, 2011 One of the things that was brought back to me the other day was how within indigenous cultures, the ceremonies that initiate the youth into adulthood were considered hugely important, for many reasons. Â In modern culture, this form of initiation is for the most part not only lacking, but also it would seem that this lack is causing a whole lot of problems. Â So, it would be interesting to hear some thoughts about this. Was there a defining moment in your life that shifted you from being a kid to being an adult? What changed? Â For the most part, it seems that instead of one definite move into adulthood, we, as moderners/westerners make many little steps, backtracking here and there, and often end up as people of adult age, who have some or many immature aspects to ourselves. Â From my understanding, the time when indigenous communities decided a certain youth needed to go through their rite of passage, was very much related to when they started showing strong interest in the opposite sex. It also seems to be very much tied into our relationships with our parents and learning how to live independently from them. (something which is also another layer of initiation for the parents and mother particularly). Â So it is not the concept of shedding one's childhood and transforming into an adult, but adding a new layer to the circle, kind of like a ring within the trunk of a tree. Â In every culture things are done differently, so it is interesting to ask how this kind of thing featured in Eastern cultures. The trinity of Confucianism/Daoism/Buddhism seems to offer quite a different take on it, with the emphasis not so much on being an adult, but on the cultivation of the spiritual awakening and learning to live according to it's virtue... Â What are you thoughts/experiences? Â I wish the West had more Initiation into Adulthood traditions, even if we had to 'steal' them from other cultures. Â I'm envisioning something where you are taken out of your home, out of your comfort zone and.. I don't know wilderness retreat, forced to face boredom, hunger.. Given a difficult challenge.. Â My oldest son is turning 14 in 2 weeks(Equinox baby), not a man, but he's getting there, no rush. Still, there should be a road trip, a challenge to face. Â Ideas.. hitch hiking..driving somewhere far and putting on blindfold for a few days..hmmnn if I want to go native, I should- go native, there are week long horseback camping trips run by native americans. That might be just the ticket. I've seen it advertised, was it Arizona or New Mexico... Â Something to think about. What other ideas are there? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sloppy Zhang Posted March 6, 2011 There are TONS of different "initiations" into adulthood for the modern person. I'm speaking as a male from a family of humble means. Â In my state, you can get your license at 16. So when people are around 14 or 15, they take driver's ed, and get their permit. Then they drive around with their parents. It's the first time they have a very literal power to go where they want to go (parents allowing). Now depending on the parent it'll range- some parents are very over protective, and some parents use them as a chauffeur, so kids get various mileage and experiences in this process. Then they get their license, and they're on their own (but again their mileage varies depending on the protectiveness of their parents). Â 16 is also about when many people get their first job, their first paycheck. The first time taking orders from someone other than their parents or their teacher, in which they get money for the rewards. They stop looking at products as value in "dollars", but value in "hours worked" (or or "hours they will have to work in the future"). It's also when they pay taxes, and learn that not everything they earn actually belongs to them. Â If you're part of the population that goes to college, taking exams are also an "initiation", many times a process gone through with your peers. Getting into college (and then finding ways to pay for that) is also an "initiation". Â Life in general holds a lot of firsts- first girlfriend (or not), first time having sex (or not), first time drinking underage (or not), first time trying out some type of drug (or not).... (I include "or nots" because as with everything it's a decision, and making a decision, be it right or wrong, is very much a right of passage). Â Anyway, we don't have big ceremonies where the whole family/village gets together, sings and dances, or sends you on some type of trail. I'll say what I said in the internet thread- the form has changed, but not the substance. Young people are always put on trials, their decisions will always lead them into adulthood. Everything from how they behave to who they choose to hang out with to what they choose to spend their time doing. Â To the parents with the teens out there, I would suggest against doing something like sending them to the outback (no offense to you outback residents) and having them go on some "survivor" type journey. It's silly, gimicky, and, from the perspective of most teens who live in a first world country, utterly pointless. Again, the form changes, but not the substance. Survival skills are important, but it's not about learning how to start a fire or hunt and skin game- it's about learning to assess the situation, keep a cool head when others can, or are, freaking out, and being able to plan ahead. How are the choices you are making now going to affect you in the future? Make it something the kids can relate to. They may learn how to apply survival skills to the wilderness, but totally miss making those same survival decisions on a day-to-day basis. Â Just food for thought from a young person (age 21). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thelerner Posted March 6, 2011 Survival skills are important, but it's not about learning how to start a fire or hunt and skin game- it's about learning to assess the situation, keep a cool head when others can, or are, freaking out, and being able to plan ahead. How are the choices you are making now going to affect you in the future? Make it something the kids can relate to. They may learn how to apply survival skills to the wilderness, but totally miss making those same survival decisions on a day-to-day basis. Just food for thought from a young person (age 21).  So as modern young person, what ideas do you have for the modern Rite of Passage. The drivers license, first job will inevitably come. What RoP would your generation relate to? Seems something should be done, either alone or with me.  Hmnn, no outback aay. Fine I never liked camping anyway. Personally I lived on sailboat for 6 weeks when I was 15. It was a good learning experience, but still in the vein of wilderness. I stayed at an Ashram for 2 weeks, that was cool and certainly expanded my point of view. That would be outside his usual world experience. .. My thoughts at 46, what might be a modern approach? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sloppy Zhang Posted March 6, 2011 So as modern young person, what ideas do you have for the modern Rite of Passage. The drivers license, first job will inevitably come. What RoP would your generation relate to? Seems something should be done, either alone or with me.  Hmnn, no outback aay. Fine I never liked camping anyway. Personally I lived on sailboat for 6 weeks when I was 15. It was a good learning experience, but still in the vein of wilderness. I stayed at an Ashram for 2 weeks, that was cool and certainly expanded my point of view. That would be outside his usual world experience. .. My thoughts at 46, what might be a modern approach?  Well I'm not saying that sailing and camping can't be fun and all that stuff you know, but it's gotta come from them.  I was reading this article about "how to talk to your teen", and I think a lot of it rang true. It talked about making them think that what you want them to do was their idea. You know, because teens always know how the world should be and yadda yadda. So this lady was talking to her daughter, and instead of asking, "how was your date?" when her daughter would come home, she'd ask, "how was your night?" and more often than not, her daughter would start talking about the dinner, or the movie, and then follow up with comments about the guy and things like that.  So I'd say go off of what your kid already likes to do. Drop hints and stuff. Try to prompt them to take it one step further. So I dunno, if your kid likes swimming, see if you could talk them into swimming in larger bodies of water, like lakes, but phrase it like, "ever thought about swimming in places other than a pool?" or "I'd bet you get a lot more resistance swimming in the ocean, what with the waves and all" or something like that. Then see if they'd be interested in traveling out to places further afield to get them doing what they like doing. To get there you might have to kayak, canoe, sail, or whatever. Prompt by saying all like, "hey how about this?" Then eventually you're full blown out sailing, then just be all like, "hey maybe one day you can take this boat out on your own? " and then one day they might, and they'd be doing what you did  I know that a lot of times I didn't have an answer for my parents right away, or I wasn't feeling up to something at the time, but later came back with it. Like they'd ask, "so how about going kayaking?" or something, and I'd be like, "I dunno." Then about a month later I'd be like, "hey, remember when you talked about kayaking?" Stuff like that.  So, I dunno, I suppose it'd depend on your kid. My parents were kind of suffocating, actually, so stuff that they really wanted me to do, more often than not I'd reactively not want to do it. But once the heat died down, less emotional strings attached, I'd come back to it.  Maybe it's just in my case, but don't act like it'd be such a big deal for your kid to go through a "rite of passage", even if you think it would be.  One of my professors said that when she was doing research on behavior of young people, she said we are characterized as being, "a political and conflict averse." So if something seems like something that could blow up in their faces (like first night camping they realize they hate it and come back, disappointing you and/or themselves, causing a fight or something), then they just aren't even going to engage in the first place. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stigweard Posted March 6, 2011 (edited) This is a terribly important subject.  Yes we still have a series of mini-rites of passages along the way as SZ has said. Mine included:  The first time Dad let me drive our boat on my own Learning to drive Dad shouting me my first beer Tracking and hunting kangaroos My first kiss The first time I won a school ground fight Losing my virginity Finishing school and getting a job, etc etc  However from personal experience, rites of passage are incredibly powerful events that really contribute to wholesome development.  I used to be part of a male dance festival. I would go every year and teach tai chi and theatrical sword fighting. Every year there would be a initiation ceremony for the adolescent and teenage boys.  The one year that stands out the most was deeply moving. The ceremony started with all the mothers preparing the boys (my step-son was one of them) which included stripping them down to lap-laps and painting them in ochre.  The men, also stripped to loincloths and painted, in the mean time prepared a series of tests. This year was a test of body, a test of heart, and a test of mind.  When the time came the women ushered the boys into the hall. The men were all lined up at the other end and we sang and stomped as we approached the boys. It would have been scene -- 50 or so nearly naked men painted with ochre stomping toward you. The ochre had dried so the air filled with ochre dust to add drama. We had a group of djembe drummers and didgeridoo players accompanying the whole process.  The first test was the test of body. All the men stomped their way into an avenue of two lines. In pairs we all crossed arms with the man opposite us forming a large "bridge" over and down which the boys must travel. One by one they lay down on this bridge of manly, sweaty, orchered arms and we sang and stomped as we passed each boy down the whole length of the avenue.  Eventually all the boys were passed down to stand before the Warrior at the Gate (hehehe that would be me), where I presented them with the "Test of the Heart". Standing on a platform above them I held my sword aloft and bellowed at them: "Strong is my arm, and sharp is my sword. But what is the Warrior's greatest strength?!"  The boys were not allowed to answer right there and then. We ushered them out the back where boys and men sat together and, one by one, each boy and each man gave their answer to the riddle. The boys then wrote down their answer on a piece of paper with their name on it.  The Test of Mind came next. All the pieces of paper were gathered into a basket and this basket was raised high off the ground back in the main hall. The boys were told that they could not pass the test without retrieving their piece of paper, and then we left them to work it out.  Eventually they got themselves organized to create a 3-tiered pyramid with the older, bigger boys at the bottom and the smaller boys getting up on their backs. After a couple of misses and collapses they eventually secured the basket and all the boys got their bits of paper.  Then all the boys were lined up. Each boy had a man who became his sponsor and his final "adjudicator" (usually the boys father). As each boys' turn came up the sponsoring man gave his parting piece of manly advise and then announced to all that the boy had passed and every one cheered, stomped, and the women ululated in shrill cheers.  When all the boys were through the drums and didges roared to life and everyone sang, and cheered and danced around the boys. Then it all broke out into an hour long tribal dance party for all.   This had moved me so much that I asked my father for an initiation. Though he was taken aback at first he did organize a wonderful day for me that really made me feel as if I was a worthy adult male member of our family (though there was no ochre or sweat exchanged and we certainly didn't dance ).  So from personal experience I would say: "Men! Take your boys through an initiation. It doesn't have to be tribal or even overly-ritualised. As long as it is heart-felt and meaningful and gives them a clear sense of what it is to be a responsible adult male." And of course the same applies to mothers and girls.  Edited March 6, 2011 by Stigweard Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
al. Posted March 6, 2011 Hey, Â Some interesting views shared here, it's a big issue isn't it? Â There are a number of things I think expand the idea of what an 'initiation into adulthood' is beyond the usual rites of passage kids encounter growing up anyway. Although the modern rites of passage do bring more independence and to a degree, responsibility, I don't think they always bring maturity- mature ways of thinking, speaking, and acting. There needs to be some form of guidance about this, and traditionally guidance NOT from the parents... Â So first off there is the trouble of defining what 'adult' means... Â In this context it is not someone who's over the age of 21 ( or any other age). They say with age comes wisdom, and although this ain't true for a lot of people, the general gist is that someone whose gone through life and encountered the usual problems, if they're are lucky, will have learnt from these problems and how best to handle them. In turn, we can learn from these people. Â In modern culture there has been a shift towards the individual, making it on his or her own. This means we don't necessarily have the support from elder generations, and because the elder generations are mostly in the same boat, they often can't give the right support... ( and young uns can be a pretty sceptical bunch too) So what's to do when not only are there no initiations but also no one one who really knows what should be done in initiation? Â What makes the indigenous cultures so important when it comes to these matters, is that they have established traditions that have developed and matured SLOWLY over many generations, and in doing have mature wisdom and the means to perpetuate it. One of these means is the 'initiation of the youth'. Â Also, and I think this comes strongly into the fold- indigenous cultures are more embedded into their environment, more at home within the natural world, more connected to its rhythms and melodies. This, for me, as a 'moderner', is something I've long felt grieved about- being cooped up in a smoggy city, never being able to see the horizon or the stars, it is a sad state of arrears city folk have to deal with. Â Now, I don't wan't to idealise indigenous cultures TOO much, because this way of life certainly wasn't perfect, but the wisdom that has been cultivated is undoubtedly a precious thing. From what I can gather, one of things which makes this wisdom so precious and also helps us understand the term 'adult', is the recognition of the inherent intelligence within nature, which also happens to be the very source of wisdom and also the source of OUR life. So through initiation there is a sprouting of our understanding of the layered nature of ourselves within and paralleled to the layered nature of the world around us. And the overlapping of these layers forms every relationship that we can have in life- our relationship with our partners, our relationships with our family, with animals, with our food, with the ground we walk upon, the Earth that supports us, and in some sense, most importantly, the relationship with ourselves... Â So, it is not a simple thing, initiation. But, we can I think assume that it does entail learning to cultivate our relationship with the natural world around us... Â Whether this can be done when we, as a culture, are so disconnected from nature, is another question. I agree that spending a weekend camping ain't gonna cut it. My guess is that it needs to be a community effort, and also that help is needed from wise people, or the indigenous wisdom-keepers... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thelerner Posted March 6, 2011 Great story Stigweard, but as al points out meaning comes from personal connection. It can't be easily transplanted from another culture. Without the background it becomes play acting. Â Still some one on one time, outside of our comfort zones is important. Even if its not a RoP, there's a need to connect deeply to each other now, at this stage in his life, 14 is such a pivotal point in life. Plus I enjoy spending time with him. Â So far I've thrown out to my son, a week on horseback with Indians, a week at an Ashram, or a week treasure hunting (prospecting) in the west. All theoretical, but we'll see if any of them catch his imagination. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites