Quick Kunlun question

[Audiohealing]

Hi everyone,

 

I found out about Kunlun right here from TTB. I got the book and finished reading it a couple of days ago and have started level 1 practice about an hour a day for the past two days.

 

Well.... nothing happens.

 

I just sit in that posture and eventually my right shoulder starts getting sore from being elevated. I don't get any wild bliss or body movements or anything at all.

 

The book does not mention what kind of breathing/visualization/mind work should be done while in the posture?

 

What should I be focusing on energy-wise. Where is the energy supposed to go/accumulate?

[Bum Grasshopper]

Hi everyone,

 

I found out about Kunlun right here from TTB. I got the book and finished reading it a couple of days ago and have started level 1 practice about an hour a day for the past two days.

 

Well.... nothing happens.

 

I just sit in that posture and eventually my right shoulder starts getting sore from being elevated. I don't get any wild bliss or body movements or anything at all.

 

Try dropping or raising your heels slightly until they start bouncing. Also rocking back and forth or spiraling at the waist.

 

The book does not mention what kind of breathing/visualization/mind work should be done while in the posture?

 

What should I be focusing on energy-wise. Where is the energy supposed to go/accumulate?

 

The practice is all about letting go. Relax and just let things happen. Give it some time.

[Sahaj Nath]

Try dropping or raising your heels slightly until they start bouncing. Also rocking back and forth or spiraling at the waist.

 

 

 

The practice is all about letting go. Relax and just let things happen. Give it some time.

 

yes. just be aware of whatever arises, without judgment. a difficult task, given the promise of bliss and everything else, but let it all go, and just accept what's there without grasping OR resisting.

 

your heels should be raised as you can without strain. for best results, you should be at the edge of your seat and your chair should allow your hips to be slightly higher than your knees. if you're doing that and if you are truly relaxed, then the sheer weight of your legs should eventually cause your calves to fatigue and your legs to bounce. if that's not happening after an hour of practice, then i could only guess that you're not as relaxed as you might think.

 

don't look for anything explosive. just recognize the subtle, and allow it to flower on its own, in its own time.

 

if your arm is hurting, you can let either switch positions or allow both your hands to drop, and just stay open. if you can manage to get your legs bouncing or to feel a subtle energy between your two palms, then you can let your hands go free.

 

hope that helps.

Edited March 8, 2011 by Hundun

[thelerner]

It took a couple of weeks before I got any bounce. I'd only do 15 or 20 minutes of it a day. Even without movement I still felt there was some sort of alchemy going on, like the position itself was a 'holding the battery' kind of feeling.

[Maddie]

I don't know a thing about Kunlun , but I do know that in every new form I've learned it certainly took more than two days to notice results.

[Audiohealing]

Thanks for the reply guys.

 

The most I can handle is 20 minutes before my right shoulder gets too sore. I have no idea how you guys manage to keep your right shoulder raised at a 90degree angle for an hour straight.

 

The most I get out of the practice is a feeling of peace and relaxation... especially during the closing posture. Mostly because I don't have to keep my arm raised anymore!

 

If I put my right arm down... wouldn't it no longer work? Its very frustratring.

[johndoe2012]

Audiohealing,

 

maybe your issue is related to your physique.

 

I hold the posture for about 40 min if I don't get into movements.

 

Before that I did one year of standing - maximum standing time was one hour so I built up muscles and stamina.

 

So don't get encouraged, I started with 5 mins of standing and then proceeded onwards.

 

After some time, maybe one or two weeks, increase time with 5 mins and wait one or two weeks again. Do this until you hit the desired time.

Edited March 9, 2011 by wtm

[neo]

You can keep your hand over the centerline and drop your elbow to a relaxed position. Almost like your arms are floppy. This is the way Max taught us at a seminar. Once movement starts you can let go of the posture and just allow the practice to do it's work and then come back to the posture if it feels right.

[onelove]

Thanks for the reply guys.

 

The most I can handle is 20 minutes before my right shoulder gets too sore. I have no idea how you guys manage to keep your right shoulder raised at a 90degree angle for an hour straight.

 

The most I get out of the practice is a feeling of peace and relaxation... especially during the closing posture. Mostly because I don't have to keep my arm raised anymore!

 

If I put my right arm down... wouldn't it no longer work? Its very frustratring.

 

You can practice with left over right as well...but if you are feeling discomfort I think you need to check in with your posture and then relax and let go of your thinking mind.

[bamboo]

Well.... nothing happens.

 

I just sit in that posture and eventually my right shoulder starts getting sore from being elevated. I don't get any wild bliss or body movements or anything at all.

 

Hey Audio,

I've just started using the spontaneous exercise too, but Jenny Lamb's version [that's who max got it from]. On Jenny's dvd before she does the spontaneous sitting posture she does 10 warm-up exercises. Personally i use my own ones, but the difference it makes is HUGE. Basically if you stetch and loosen up you create a much more conducive environment for the chi to start moving and opening up the channels.

 

Stretching and or self massage, arms, torso and legs will all increase the chi circulation and help kick things off.

Although i've got no spontaneous movements yet, the warmth/bliss arose the first time i did the exercise. It's all just a matter a prep.

Edited March 9, 2011 by bamboo

[adept]

Isn't there a new Kunlun book due out ?

[Gjeken]

You can practice with left over right as well...but if you are feeling discomfort I think you need to check in with your posture and then relax and let go of your thinking mind.

 

The way it's taught is right over left so i don't think you should change that.

Has Max or Jenny told you that you can practise with left over right as well?

[Leif]

Well.... nothing happens.

 

I just sit in that posture and eventually my right shoulder starts getting sore from being elevated. I don't get any wild bliss or body movements or anything at all.

I got the movements right away on the first session today. But then I'm a bit more kinesthetic and get occasional slight involuntary muscle trembling or movement here and there...(which is why I thought this (Jenny Lamb's DVD practice actually) might work for me).

I'm complete qigong noob, you have been warned, before I go on with my opinions as that's what it is:

Your body knows spontaneous movement qigong already. It's when you are a bit worried or stressed and palm your forehead automatically. Or you feel like stretching yourself a bit during day and do that..at any place..in office chair...in bus...sitting in waiting room.... When you feel like dancing and do the few dancing steps to feel better. You do it all the time, some in more or some in less subtle ways.

The key here is to let it happen, allow your body to move. If you feel some sensation, let the movement develop out of it, allow it to happen.

It's said "do not guide your movement" but there is a very tiny margin between guiding and allowing and you have to explore that for yourself.

 

I don't know if I did it the right way today...I don't celebrate that I got the movements...I'll try to empty my cup yesterday, and the days after, again and again, and again start from zero. From my understanding (sure, first day in only) getting the movements is unimportant, it's important to get in touch with "it", allowing, feeling, letting yourself be guided by the inner wisdom, becoming one with "it", there I feel a long way to go myself.

 

I admire your dedication, one hour is only a distant dream for me.

Edited March 9, 2011 by Leif

[Sahaj Nath]

The way it's taught is right over left so i don't think you should change that.

Has Max or Jenny told you that you can practise with left over right as well?

 

 

according to Max in '07, both positions were fair game. not sure if Sifu Jenny approves, but the thread says 'kunlun question,' so i figure Max's rules apply.

 

if it's different now, someone else needs to clarify it.

[Audiohealing]

For the "newbies" that posted in this thread:

 

Did you feel any joy or bliss along with the movements?

 

The most I experience is extreme boredom. I don't want to sound cynical or arrogant, but it's true. This is what happens when I do Kunlun. I get bored and my body gets sore. End of story.

 

I will still keep at it but I must say I an jealous of you guys getting results on your first sessions!

[joeblast]

Sooner or later your mind will get bored with "getting bored" But not if you stay expectant!

[gendao]

Did you feel any joy or bliss along with the movements?

 

The most I experience is extreme boredom. I don't want to sound cynical or arrogant, but it's true. This is what happens when I do Kunlun. I get bored and my body gets sore. End of story.

 

I will still keep at it but I must say I an jealous of you guys getting results on your first sessions!

Not everyone will necessarily feel joy or bliss. What gets released, depends on what's been bottled up inside you.

 

Also, only about half of each workshop opened up during each workshop. These tended to be females and those with prior qigong experience. Males and those with more blockages tended to take longer. It could even easily take someone weeks or months...

 

Of course, most n00bs will find any form of meditation to be mentally boring and physically strenuous to begin with. Nobody said this was easy. But you think Kunlun 1 is bad...try sitting still in half-lotus or full-lotus...lol.

[onelove]

The way it's taught is right over left so i don't think you should change that.

Has Max or Jenny told you that you can practise with left over right as well?

 

It's taught both ways by Max and Kan (as recently as a year ago). Jenny generally teaches right over left but has encouraged students to try either way as well, she says it doesn't matter. Good posture, relaxation, and awareness matter much more in her system. When she teaches she often adds the following refinement to the foot position, which I found helpful when I do the spontaneous practice: Start with shins/thighs at 90 deg angles, raise to the very tippy-top of toes, pull toes in two inches closer to chair, then lower feet tot he balls of the feet. For me this helps flatten the lower back/tilt pelvis back slightly, fill back of dan tian, and open up spine as same in wuji qigong/standing meditation.

[de_paradise]

My unofficial method to get something going and some bliss:

 

Imagine that moment where a woman is about to orgasm, you when her back is arched back, eyes rolled back a little, and she's in this moment of blissful surrender and reception. If you can imagine that moment, whether you are a man or woman, and put yourself into that state, that feeling, and enjoy that moment yourself as a a woman about to orgasm, or well on the path of orgasming, and just letting go to that feeling. Allow yourself to lose any inhibitions that keep your from that state, and just think of the times you have seen or felt this ecstasy. Keep the kunlun posture while you are doing this. Forget about being a guy or macho or whatever you are, and just enter the orgasmic sensation, of that letting go and reception. And you can feel the bliss rising from your lower chakras, and it may circulate around your body. Just allow the natural movements within the Kunlun posture flow with the whole orgasm symphony.

[adept]

Isn't there a new Kunlun book due out ?

 

Anyone know of this ?

Or does anyone have the 2nd book for sale ?

[Trunk]

Here's the method.

Go practice.

Simple.

 

 

there to share:

http://www.precisiondocs.com/~altaoism/images/YinYangMudra.jpg

 

It's about students ... practicing, learning, progressing.

Not about endless intrigue & hub-bub.

[torus693]

My link

[Otis]

The most I experience is extreme boredom. I don't want to sound cynical or arrogant, but it's true. This is what happens when I do Kunlun. I get bored and my body gets sore. End of story.

 

I will still keep at it but I must say I an jealous of you guys getting results on your first sessions!

I know this isn't the purist line, but I wouldn't start with anything that bores you that much. It'll only turn you off from the rest.

 

If you need more stimulation to start with, there's no sin in that. Work your way up to it. Start with some moving meditation, walking or at least standing. If you find your way into bliss through an avenue that's already available, then your system will open the rest of your practice up. Just beating your head against the wall of boredom isn't likely to lead you anywhere.