Finding a sifu

[Cognizance]

So far all I've been doing is retaining my jing and meditating. When meditating, I sit in a full lotus/half lotus, straight spine, sitting on my hui yin point touching ground, right hand on left hand cupping dan tian and embryonic breathing. I try to achieve a state of "nothingness" so to speak. I am planning on finding a true master. Should I persist with what Im doing now and would a master typically charge you, a true one? Any help would be much appreciated. Thank you so much.

[wudangspirit]

You'll find who you are looking for when the time is right. However, do not get caught up in an illusion of ancient Shifu's who will not charge you. This is still the modern world and Shifu's need to eat and live as well. The key is are they giving you the value you are paying for and it is it within your means.

 

Like I have said in previous posts, you need to watch out for scam artists.

 

You can study with someone and if your life changes exponentially (in they way you want but maybe not they way you expected) from it, then I'd say you found your Shifu.

[Astral_Anima]

lol, i completely disagree with wudangspirit (no offense to you of course)

 

As a counter-point...

I suggest you increase the amount of time you can meditate in full lotus. Masters like Sifu Wang Liping for example, wont even train you until you can sit comfortably for four hours in full lotus. Also Masters like Chunyi Lin emphasize diet and flexibility. Most all things require concentration as well, so focusing on that will help(imo). There are certainly many "Masters" out there and they can be masters of anything. There are many masters of music and art, master of certain skills...anything you were looking for?

 

It seems most masters nowadays, since we have the internet and live in the "communications" age, seem to sit still and simply make themselves known, rather than wander around like in the olden days. I'm sure there are still hermits and wandering taoist sages but I doubt they'd just appear to you. I'd say take a look at some systems out there and pick one and stick with it. Most advertised systems are just beginners stuff to initiate the layman, perhaps for future lives. For those who are serious for progressing it is my belief that the masters of these systems will share the more "inner circle" teachings as you progress.

Also the idea that masters nowadays eating and living like common man is partially true but tricky. If you're talking about masters of wisdom and alchemy...well no they don't have to eat if they don't want to, and they will likely not act like the baboons and fools of this modern society, lol. However that also doesn't mean they'll act like an alien. They'll still be human, they'll still feel and laugh and live but not like people nowadays. I'd love to see Buddha chillin at a party drinkin 40s and munchin on sum weed brownies lololol, dressed in classic hipster clothes listening to his ipod :lol:

 

Buddha: Yo bruh, check out this mad chick I totally banged last night.

Jesus: Oh shyt son, that girl is whack. U wanna try this new vaporizer i picked up?

Shiva: Heeeey dudes, I brought the rum and coke. Sumone wanna play sum Mario Tennis? Cause i've been wantin to play sum mario tennis, that Daisy chick is HAWT!

 

hahahahahaa, phew good laughs

 

Anyway, look around, see if you can find some reputable "masters", see if they teach a system and learn it, learn and master everything they have to teach, then they'll likely teach you beyond the "public" systems and you'll start having some fun. Personally in the US Chunyi Lin has the the notorious rep of being a crazy healer, Max Christensen is either a powerful magician or complete fraud, lol, There's Sifu Hata who teaches a unique art and is also connected to other highly reputable masters. I'm sure people on here could also recommend themselves and maybe others too

 

-Astral

[wudangspirit]

I completely disagree with this notion.

A Master is someone who master's themselves and will openly teach those who are willing to learn. If someone cannot learn how to meditate from these guys from a beginner then how can someone learn from them? Where would they learn to meditate for four hours in total stillness to begin with. Your theory has holes my friend.

 

The "story" of Wang Liping says he learned from a beginner from immortals. They trained him from a total beginner learning step by step and could not even sit for 10 minutes at first. Do you think Wang Liping would hold himself higher than his own Masters and not except anyone who already knew how to meditate for four hours? I think not.

 

My suggestion is to keep looking and he will find who he is looking for, for his own reasons.

 

 

lol, i completely disagree with wudangspirit (no offense to you of course)

 

As a counter-point...

I suggest you increase the amount of time you can meditate in full lotus. Masters like Sifu Wang Liping for example, wont even train you until you can sit comfortably for four hours in full lotus. Also Masters like Chunyi Lin emphasize diet and flexibility. Most all things require concentration as well, so focusing on that will help(imo). There are certainly many "Masters" out there and they can be masters of anything. There are many masters of music and art, master of certain skills...anything you were looking for?

 

It seems most masters nowadays, since we have the internet and live in the "communications" age, seem to sit still and simply make themselves known, rather than wander around like in the olden days. I'm sure there are still hermits and wandering taoist sages but I doubt they'd just appear to you. I'd say take a look at some systems out there and pick one and stick with it. Most advertised systems are just beginners stuff to initiate the layman, perhaps for future lives. For those who are serious for progressing it is my belief that the masters of these systems will share the more "inner circle" teachings as you progress.

Also the idea that masters nowadays eating and living like common man is partially true but tricky. If you're talking about masters of wisdom and alchemy...well no they don't have to eat if they don't want to, and they will likely not act like the baboons and fools of this modern society, lol. However that also doesn't mean they'll act like an alien. They'll still be human, they'll still feel and laugh and live but not like people nowadays. I'd love to see Buddha chillin at a party drinkin 40s and munchin on sum weed brownies lololol, dressed in classic hipster clothes listening to his ipod :lol:

 

Buddha: Yo bruh, check out this mad chick I totally banged last night.

Jesus: Oh shyt son, that girl is whack. U wanna try this new vaporizer i picked up?

Shiva: Heeeey dudes, I brought the rum and coke. Sumone wanna play sum Mario Tennis? Cause i've been wantin to play sum mario tennis, that Daisy chick is HAWT!

 

hahahahahaa, phew good laughs

 

Anyway, look around, see if you can find some reputable "masters", see if they teach a system and learn it, learn and master everything they have to teach, then they'll likely teach you beyond the "public" systems and you'll start having some fun. Personally in the US Chunyi Lin has the the notorious rep of being a crazy healer, Max Christensen is either a powerful magician or complete fraud, lol, There's Sifu Hata who teaches a unique art and is also connected to other highly reputable masters. I'm sure people on here could also recommend themselves and maybe others too

 

-Astral

[Astral_Anima]

I completely disagree with this notion.

A Master is someone who master's themselves and will openly teach those who are willing to learn. If someone cannot learn how to meditate from these guys from a beginner then how can someone learn from them? Where would they learn to meditate for four hours in total stillness to begin with. Your theory has holes my friend.

 

The "story" of Wang Liping says he learned from a beginner from immortals. They trained him from a total beginner learning step by step and could not even sit for 10 minutes at first. Do you think Wang Liping would hold himself higher than his own Masters and not except anyone who already knew how to meditate for four hours? I think not.

 

My suggestion is to keep looking and he will find who he is looking for, for his own reasons.

 

Valid point, lol. In hindsight it would seem I'm projecting my own criterion and definition of a "true master" upon this thread. My apologies, thx for the "check". Follow your heart Cognizance! and pray to "God" it bears fruit to your liking

 

But I'm still pretty sure Sifu Wang wont train you in person unless you have some attainment already. He has other people teaching the basics of his system, so why waste his time? Pretty sure you have to master the basics first, then when you're a high level he'll train you further. Of course this is all speculation, I could be COMPLETELY wrong, but I haven't seen any evidence to support either, so I stick to my assumption. The immortals in the story trained him because they needed an "heir" so to speak. I would assume if they tried to train hundreds or even thousands of willing nooblets they wouldn't be able to give the individual attention necessary to attain optimal results. Lastly the role of a teacher is to show you a method you don't know. So if sitting in full lotus is a requisite what would he be expected to do? sit there and watch you struggle. It's up to the student to do the work, the teach only introduces guidance.

 

I can only show you the door Neo, You have to walk through it

 

lol, or so says me.

 

-Astral

[wudangspirit]

[Cognizance]

lol, i completely disagree with wudangspirit (no offense to you of course)

 

As a counter-point...

I suggest you increase the amount of time you can meditate in full lotus. Masters like Sifu Wang Liping for example, wont even train you until you can sit comfortably for four hours in full lotus. Also Masters like Chunyi Lin emphasize diet and flexibility. Most all things require concentration as well, so focusing on that will help(imo). There are certainly many "Masters" out there and they can be masters of anything. There are many masters of music and art, master of certain skills...anything you were looking for?

 

It seems most masters nowadays, since we have the internet and live in the "communications" age, seem to sit still and simply make themselves known, rather than wander around like in the olden days. I'm sure there are still hermits and wandering taoist sages but I doubt they'd just appear to you. I'd say take a look at some systems out there and pick one and stick with it. Most advertised systems are just beginners stuff to initiate the layman, perhaps for future lives. For those who are serious for progressing it is my belief that the masters of these systems will share the more "inner circle" teachings as you progress.

Also the idea that masters nowadays eating and living like common man is partially true but tricky. If you're talking about masters of wisdom and alchemy...well no they don't have to eat if they don't want to, and they will likely not act like the baboons and fools of this modern society, lol. However that also doesn't mean they'll act like an alien. They'll still be human, they'll still feel and laugh and live but not like people nowadays. I'd love to see Buddha chillin at a party drinkin 40s and munchin on sum weed brownies lololol, dressed in classic hipster clothes listening to his ipod :lol:

 

Buddha: Yo bruh, check out this mad chick I totally banged last night.

Jesus: Oh shyt son, that girl is whack. U wanna try this new vaporizer i picked up?

Shiva: Heeeey dudes, I brought the rum and coke. Sumone wanna play sum Mario Tennis? Cause i've been wantin to play sum mario tennis, that Daisy chick is HAWT!

 

hahahahahaa, phew good laughs

 

Anyway, look around, see if you can find some reputable "masters", see if they teach a system and learn it, learn and master everything they have to teach, then they'll likely teach you beyond the "public" systems and you'll start having some fun. Personally in the US Chunyi Lin has the the notorious rep of being a crazy healer, Max Christensen is either a powerful magician or complete fraud, lol, There's Sifu Hata who teaches a unique art and is also connected to other highly reputable masters. I'm sure people on here could also recommend themselves and maybe others too

 

-Astral

 

Brilliant reply. I definitely agree that yes everyone needs money to survive BUT a "true" master charging to teach a big group of students without demonstrating any form of achievement or energy causes a lot of cognitive dissonances in my head LOL. Thank you Astral, that was really insightful.

[Mr. T]

well hey there all,

 

cog, i feel the need to respond with my experience, since i am somewhat regretful of my tone in the other thread. for that, i hope you harbor no ill will.

 

my journey began about 10 years ago when i was guiding for a boy scout camp in the northern regions of our country. there was another guide, an older gentleman, who chimed in innocently when a group discussion of religion came up at one of our nightly gatherings. he was a "taoist"...the first i had ever met, and the first time i had even heard of taoism. after hanging out with this person for about 4 months and getiing a primer on taoism, but not really "converting" (or so i thought at the time), an awakening of some sorts occurred in me. (i call it an awakening, but really he just changed my perspective on things, and this was by no means an "enlightenment" experience).

 

after about 5 years of contemplation and life, something in me said i needed to buy a copy of the bible for my new years resolution, just to read and have around the apartment. somehow, i ended up coming home with a copy of the tao te ching. after fairly serious independent study for some months after that, it seemed to become obvious to me that i needed guidance...i needed a teacher. the search was on!

 

and i hit a brick wall. i live in a major metropolitan city, right downtown, so i thought it would be easy...go to google, get number and address, learn tao. not so, it seemed. then, after what seemed like months of fruitless searching, there he appeared in the same search i had done countless times before. i really can't explain it, and sometimes i feel like i am duping myself or something, because that's not how the internet and search engines work, especially since the site had been up for several years. anyway, i can only explain it that when the time was right, i found a direction to travel. it has been a life changing direction for me, and one that i am eternally greatful for, and can never repay.

 

just to address the earlier posts, our sifu does not charge to teach. we do collect a couple dollars a class to pay for the space that the church graciously lets us use. and that is about 10 or more hours of instruction time in an average week, sometimes more in the summer. the sacrifice he makes is enormous, and something i could never repay. good luck again cog...thanks for readin' my little story!

Edited March 10, 2011 by Mr. T

[Leif]

would a master typically charge you, a true one?

Would a typical master let you live with a subconscious feeling of overwhelming debt to him because you didn't have to pay a dime?

 

Would a typical master require you to work for him for free in exchange for his "free" teachings, like it used to be in the old days?

 

Just thoughts....

 

In my very humble opinion, don't waste time thinking about that, especially not before you have even met the person you want to study with.

[gendao]

So far all I've been doing is retaining my jing and meditating. When meditating, I sit in a full lotus/half lotus, straight spine, sitting on my hui yin point touching ground, right hand on left hand cupping dan tian and embryonic breathing. I try to achieve a state of "nothingness" so to speak. I am planning on finding a true master. Should I persist with what Im doing now and would a master typically charge you, a true one? Any help would be much appreciated. Thank you so much.

That's a very good start and practice..

 

(Assuming you are practicing jing conservation and not forceful retention.)

[Cognizance]

well hey there all,

 

cog, i feel the need to respond with my experience, since i am somewhat regretful of my tone in the other thread. for that, i hope you harbor no ill will.

 

my journey began about 10 years ago when i was guiding for a boy scout camp in the northern regions of our country. there was another guide, an older gentleman, who chimed in innocently when a group discussion of religion came up at one of our nightly gatherings. he was a "taoist"...the first i had ever met, and the first time i had even heard of taoism. after hanging out with this person for about 4 months and getiing a primer on taoism, but not really "converting" (or so i thought at the time), an awakening of some sorts occurred in me. (i call it an awakening, but really he just changed my perspective on things, and this was by no means an "enlightenment" experience).

 

after about 5 years of contemplation and life, something in me said i needed to buy a copy of the bible for my new years resolution, just to read and have around the apartment. somehow, i ended up coming home with a copy of the tao te ching. after fairly serious independent study for some months after that, it seemed to become obvious to me that i needed guidance...i needed a teacher. the search was on!

 

and i hit a brick wall. i live in a major metropolitan city, right downtown, so i thought it would be easy...go to google, get number and address, learn tao. not so, it seemed. then, after what seemed like months of fruitless searching, there he appeared in the same search i had done countless times before. i really can't explain it, and sometimes i feel like i am duping myself or something, because that's not how the internet and search engines work, especially since the site had been up for several years. anyway, i can only explain it that when the time was right, i found a direction to travel. it has been a life changing direction for me, and one that i am eternally greatful for, and can never repay.

 

just to address the earlier posts, our sifu does not charge to teach. we do collect a couple dollars a class to pay for the space that the church graciously lets us use. and that is about 10 or more hours of instruction time in an average week, sometimes more in the summer. the sacrifice he makes is enormous, and something i could never repay. good luck again cog...thanks for readin' my little story!

 

Thanks for the reply mate. Very kind of you to share your experience with me. You are very lucky to have found a teacher in a metropolitan city. I live in London so...LOL.

[Cognizance]

Would a typical master let you live with a subconscious feeling of overwhelming debt to him because you didn't have to pay a dime?

 

Would a typical master require you to work for him for free in exchange for his "free" teachings, like it used to be in the old days?

 

Just thoughts....

 

In my very humble opinion, don't waste time thinking about that, especially not before you have even met the person you want to study with.

 

Sorry but I fail to see your point. Waste time thinking about what? The concept of just going online to find a "master" and then paying X amount of money for Y number of classes doesn't sit well with me. I just don't believe true knowledge can be bought. It's funny how people make it out to look like you need to be paying for lessons to make any progress. Thanks for the feedback Leif .

Edited March 10, 2011 by Cognizance

[Cognizance]

That's a very good start and practice..

 

(Assuming you are practicing jing conservation and not forceful retention.)

 

Thanks for the reassurance Vortex. Would you please clarify the difference between Jing conservation/Forceful retention? Thank you.

[Leif]

The concept of just going online to find a "master" and then paying X amount of money for Y number of classes doesn't sit well with me. I just don't believe true knowledge can be bought.

You are not buying knowledge, at least not in my book, though I can understand most think that way, that's how the society works.

 

My point of view is more towards "energy exchange" (money=energy) and paying for masters time.

 

It's funny how people make it out to look like you need to be paying for lessons to make any progress.

I didn't say that and wouldn't subscribe to that. Paying for lessons has nothing to do with making any progress.

For similar argumentation, people often say "you need to pay to really value the teachings" and while I understand where they are heading with that, I don't care that much about that one either, it's just, more or less, the "western school of motivational thought" kind of thinking.

 

Sure there are masters who will not charge anything, for their various own reasons.

 

But whether someone charges or not has little to do with them being master.

[Cognizance]

You are not buying knowledge, at least not in my book, though I can understand most think that way, that's how the society works.

 

My point of view is more towards "energy exchange" (money=energy) and paying for masters time.

 

 

I didn't say that and wouldn't subscribe to that. Paying for lessons has nothing to do with making any progress.

For similar argumentation, people often say "you need to pay to really value the teachings" and while I understand where they are heading with that, I don't care that much about that one either, it's just, more or less, the "western school of motivational thought" kind of thinking.

 

Sure there are masters who will not charge anything, for their various own reasons.

 

But whether someone charges or not has little to do with them being master.

 

As someone said, they can be Masters of anything.

[Mr. T]

hey all

 

interesting turn this discussion has taken! leif, i agree that there is a definite cost for the stuff we are learning, although that cost is not monetary. our teacher asks us to practice diligently and to honor the teachings...that is our payment to him. and it is not always easy, as many of us know it requires time during our day to do these things.

 

our teacher is also a student of "the tao of giving" as he often calls it, and talks often of the importance of keeping balance between giving freely of yourself and maintaining yourself. i can say that there are no feelings of guilt-laden debt that can't be repaid or some such! (at least not for me )

 

another thought that came to me when i was thinking of my teachers earlier was that another teaching of the tao is that everyone can be your teacher..we can learn something from everybody! we just have to be clear-minded enough and willing enough to recognize them...just a thought. later

[Astral_Anima]

This is pretty irrelevant as this is just my personal standpoint, but If I ever give advise or share a way of self-betterment, if the person was sincere I wouldn't charge them a dime, in fact I would invest more of my time and effort in them. When you finally reach a point of mastery or when you finally get a grain of truth there is no greater gift than the gift of passing on/sharing that knowledge to those who can benefit from it. I would find it much more rewarding to share my knowledge on a personal level with those of proper mind and character than to just sell myself to whoever has a buck. Especially high level stuff. Only a truly corrupt person would share powerful knowledge to only those with cash and not observe and thoroughly test their character and resolve.

 

I remember when I first learned Kunlun I shared it with my best friend. Anyone else who showed interest in it I shared it with them, I let them borrow the book and shared my experiences and such. Now I could have just waited until I became a facilitator and made a profit off it but I chose not to. Why? Because I more enjoy the gift of sharing, the gift of giving than I do monetary gain. I find much more value in making a difference in people's lives than I do 'makin a buck'. I'm here to find truth and share it with others...not to do business.

 

 

I love this guy XD, so many good points

 

-Astral

Edited March 11, 2011 by Astral_Anima

[Stigweard]

Should teachers charge students??

 

That's not the real question. The real question is, "Should teachers be dependent on student's money?"

 

The answer there of course is, "NO".

 

As soon as the teacher is dependent or attached to the student coming to class then the teacher can no longer be effective. Perhaps the best thing a teacher can do for the student is to send him away, or recommend another teacher.

 

Another interesting story about this:

 

A wealthy businessman decided he wanted to learn the supreme truth of all religions. He invited all religious leaders to give him their best instruction. In this way he became very knowledgeable but also very conceptually confused. He finally realized that if doctrines were just creations of the mind then they mustn't be the ultimate truth.

 

Eventually an achieved one agreed to teach the business man the ultimate, subtle truth. But the teacher demanded twelve fish of pure gold, each weighing 15 ounces to be placed in a boat along with other offerings. The boat would set sail and be secluded from the worldly life of people. Only deaf sailors and servants would be allowed to help in the boat.

 

On a very auspicious day, the teacher and the pupil sailed out to sea accompanied by a few sailors and servants. The servants helped prepare the offerings in the manner of traditional ritual and then retreated from view. Only the teacher and the pupil were left together. They ceremoniously made offerings to the Heavenly Realm. Then, to the amazement of the rich businessman, the teacher took the gold fish and threw them one by one into the ocean. The pupil's first instinct was to stop him, but he dared not since the fish no longer belonged to him.

 

Finally, he gathered his courage and asked the master, "May I venture to ask the meaning of this?"

 

The teacher's answer was simple: "I just wanted to see the fish swim again"

 

"I'm afraid that probably cannot happen," said the pupil.

 

"Why not?"

 

"Lifeless gold cannot be made into living fish."

 

"Is it that your gold is not good enough?" asked the teacher.

 

"All gold is lifeless, venerable sir," replied the businessman.

 

The teacher then smiled and gently said to his pupil, "I am glad that you know that."

 

At first the rich pupil was stricken, realizing what an expensive lesson he had just been taught, but he immediately said to his teacher, "Thank you sir. Hereafter, your pupil will not value lifeless things. I will maintain single-mindedness in order to learn Tao from you."

 

[Mr. T]

thanks for that story, stig...

[Astral_Anima]

haha I enjoyed the story, maybe I'll tell it to a kitten when I learn their language

Edited March 11, 2011 by Astral_Anima

[Cognizance]

Should teachers charge students??

 

That's not the real question. The real question is, "Should teachers be dependent on student's money?"

 

The answer there of course is, "NO".

 

As soon as the teacher is dependent or attached to the student coming to class then the teacher can no longer be effective. Perhaps the best thing a teacher can do for the student is to send him away, or recommend another teacher.

 

Another interesting story about this:

 

A wealthy businessman decided he wanted to learn the supreme truth of all religions. He invited all religious leaders to give him their best instruction. In this way he became very knowledgeable but also very conceptually confused. He finally realized that if doctrines were just creations of the mind then they mustn't be the ultimate truth.

 

Eventually an achieved one agreed to teach the business man the ultimate, subtle truth. But the teacher demanded twelve fish of pure gold, each weighing 15 ounces to be placed in a boat along with other offerings. The boat would set sail and be secluded from the worldly life of people. Only deaf sailors and servants would be allowed to help in the boat.

 

On a very auspicious day, the teacher and the pupil sailed out to sea accompanied by a few sailors and servants. The servants helped prepare the offerings in the manner of traditional ritual and then retreated from view. Only the teacher and the pupil were left together. They ceremoniously made offerings to the Heavenly Realm. Then, to the amazement of the rich businessman, the teacher took the gold fish and threw them one by one into the ocean. The pupil's first instinct was to stop him, but he dared not since the fish no longer belonged to him.

 

Finally, he gathered his courage and asked the master, "May I venture to ask the meaning of this?"

 

The teacher's answer was simple: "I just wanted to see the fish swim again"

 

"I'm afraid that probably cannot happen," said the pupil.

 

"Why not?"

 

"Lifeless gold cannot be made into living fish."

 

"Is it that your gold is not good enough?" asked the teacher.

 

"All gold is lifeless, venerable sir," replied the businessman.

 

The teacher then smiled and gently said to his pupil, "I am glad that you know that."

 

At first the rich pupil was stricken, realizing what an expensive lesson he had just been taught, but he immediately said to his teacher, "Thank you sir. Hereafter, your pupil will not value lifeless things. I will maintain single-mindedness in order to learn Tao from you."

 

 

That was beautiful Stig.

[wudangspirit]

I think it is about finding the right teather for you and whether you are comfortable paying for it or not. No big deal. Your Tao is your Tao.

 

Find the right teacher that teaches you what you are looking for. My only criteria was:

 

Does the teacher practice what they preach?

Does the teacher show physical proof in their own life of attainment and knowledge?

Can the master's teachings and guidance make a difference in your life, if you practice?

Does the teaching you learn apply to your life and your Tao (your way)?

Do you have Yuan Fen (common affinity) with that teacher and their teachings?

Do the teaching make sense to you?

 

That was beautiful Stig.

[gendao]

Thanks for the reassurance Vortex. Would you please clarify the difference between Jing conservation/Forceful retention? Thank you.

My current vague "understanding" is this:

 

You are bequeathed prenatal original jing (xiantian yuan jing) from your parents. This supply is finite and "cannot" be restored or replenished during your lifetime (at least according to popular TCM). Jing conservation thus really refers more specifically to prenatal jing conservation here - because it is such a precious finite resource. Like an unrechargable battery that effectively helps determine your lifespan.

 

Now, the reason why you could conserve prenatal jing is because your body doesn't need to run directly off of it. Instead, it normally runs mostly off postnatal qi (houtian qi). Which can be absorbed from your environment in addition to being converted from prenatal (and then postnatal) jing. So, if you could constantly intake enough postnatal qi from your environment - you theoretically wouldn't have to tap into your prenatal jing battery.

 

But prenatal jing is also converted into postnatal jing during sexual arousal and gets released during ejaculation.. And by forcefully retaining this postnatal jing at this point one risks trapping and stagnating it in your body (creating unhealthy body armor and blockage). Now, I suspect that if your channels were open enough, you might be able to recirculate it naturally. Or, there may be some other safer alternative methods. However, either way - you've still depleted some of your prenatal jing that cannot be recovered. Hence, retention =/= prenatal jing conservation.

 

At best, it might help you retain some postnatal jing which could be better than losing it. But at worst, it could create a stagnant blockage.

 

As opposed to prenatal jing conservation - which would include preventing sexual arousal and the subsequent conversion of prenatal to postnatal jing to begin with...

 

Thus, Taoist longevity methods generally include absorbing more houtian qi while conserving prenatal jing. The general idea here essentially being to run off the universal qi grid rather than your own personal battery in life.

But again, this is just my current semi-speculative "understanding" though and I could easily be off..

Edited March 14, 2011 by vortex

[Warrior Body Buddha Mind]

When the student is ready, then the master will appear!!!

 

Yes, teachers should get paid to train and teach they put there hard work and money into as well. Why is it everyone wants a free ride, usually most people that get it for free dont train cause they think there is no VALUE in it cause it was free. Teachers always taught for money in the old days and charged for the medicine or healing. Unless they where family or the teacher is stinking rich which he could just pick and choose his own todais.

[Cognizance]

My current vague "understanding" is this:

 

You are bequeathed prenatal original jing (xiantian yuan jing) from your parents. This supply is finite and "cannot" be restored or replenished during your lifetime (at least according to popular TCM). Jing conservation thus really refers more specifically to prenatal jing conservation here - because it is such a precious finite resource. Like an unrechargable battery that effectively helps determine your lifespan.

 

Now, the reason why you could conserve prenatal jing is because your body doesn't need to run directly off of it. Normally, it runs mostly off postnatal qi (houtian qi). Which can also be absorbed from your environment rather than just being converted from prenatal (and then postnatal) jing. So, if you could constantly intake enough postnatal qi from your environment - you theoretically wouldn't have to tap into your prenatal jing battery.

 

But prenatal jing is also converted into postnatal jing during sexual arousal and gets released during ejaculation.. And by forcefully retaining this postnatal jing at this point one risks trapping and stagnating it in your body (creating unhealthy body armor and blockage). Now, I suspect that if your channels were open enough, you might be able to recirculate it naturally. Or, there may be some other safer alternative methods. However, either way - you've still depleted some of your prenatal jing that cannot be recovered. Hence, retention =/= prenatal jing conservation.

 

At best, it might help you retain some postnatal jing which could be better than losing it. But at worst, it could create a stagnant blockage.

 

As opposed to prenatal jing conservation - which would include preventing sexual arousal and the subsequent conversion of prenatal to postnatal jing to begin with...

 

Thus, Taoist longevity methods generally include absorbing more houtian qi while conserving prenatal jing. The general idea here essentially being to run off the universal qi grid rather than your own personal battery in life.

But again, this is just my current semi-speculative "understanding" though and I could easily be off..

 

My understanding is that, semen can be converted into yang qi. The generative force developed during an erection should be reversed and moved up the spine and circulated and purified. Once this is done sufficiently, you store it in the tan tien. I believe that this process is to be done for a 100 days. It is imperative that you attain stillness to gather the light which is the third eye. You focus on this while meditating. I am not too sure though. Im going to kind of just experience it for myself. I am very confident in how qi feels as I have felt it numerous times.