Seth Ananda please teach me about kundalini

[spiraltao]

Ooops, I didn't have the right quote up.

 

 

 

I think it was "embrace annihilation" I was referring to, hehe.

 

 

 

To me that kind of means embrace the nothingness, hence embrace nihility, if that is even a word, lol.

 

 

 

 

EDIT: I see the difference now, annihilation is a process and nihility would be the result of annihilation, I suppose I need to look it up and find out the true definition.

Edited November 19, 2011 by jaysahnztao

[Creation]

 

two words: RECKLESS ABANDON. hold nothing back. ALL IN! there's nothing worth holding onto. there is nothing that you CAN hold onto that won't inevitably be lost to the fires of time, anyway. so give it up. everything that you have to lose will eventually be lost. that's a truth that you can trust. maybe the lineage is not for you, or maybe you're just not ready, but it makes little since to seek his presence and then resist him. you can waste lifetimes in a pattern like that, and a lot of people do.

 

you don't need any special technique. just get naked. let your fear loosen you up rather than tighten you up. and if you can't handle that much vulnerability, i would have to ask what you are doing there.

 

embrace annihilation. it's the only way to be born again.

Let me tell you about a dream I had. In the dream I realized I was dreaming, and got excited, like "Ooo, I wonder what I can do now that I know I'm dreaming." But before I could try anything, the entire dream dissolved into nothingness, everything went black and I began feeling a wave of bliss. Consciously, I was ready to jump right in, but I felt myself tensing up, completely involuntarily and unconsciously, and in an instant I was awake.

 

So your advice, however good, does not speak to the issue I was referring to. It is an automatic reflex. If anyone knows how to deal with that, please let me know.

 

EDIT: Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate you posting what you did. It's really something that I need to be meditating on. Actually, those kinds of ideas have been on my mind a lot since I began studying with Mark, alternatively haunting and exhilarating me. Which it is is a good litmus test for me to use on myself...

 

Now this,

let your fear loosen you up rather than tighten you up.

is something I would love if you would speak more about. I'm sorry, but I really can't relate to this statement. Perhaps it is a life experience thing?

Edited November 19, 2011 by Creation

[mjjbecker]

I sometimes get some shaking while doing Stillness Movement. Its all good.

 

I just find that the really good stuff happens in the longer ones... So if you just did 15 mins or half an hour a day, thats great but if you then felt good to start doing a weekly 3 hour session as well then all the shorter ones in the week are supported by, and build on the long one...

 

I'd certainly agree with Seth on this. Don't force it. Sometimes it feels right to do a little, sometimes a lot. Go with that feeling. Long practice sessions though are where, I think, the 'breakthroughs' are made. Keeping going, and maintaining momentum, is REALLY important.

[Creation]

About shaking, how to know when it's getting too heavy and that you should take a rest and calm down? I get nauseated, disoriented, tense, and agitated very easily when the movements start taking off in spontaneous practice.

Edited November 19, 2011 by Creation

[Harmonious Emptiness]

.

Edited November 19, 2011 by Harmonious Emptiness

[Seth Ananda]

About shaking, how to know when it's getting too heavy and that you should take a rest and calm down? I get nauseated, disoriented, tense, and agitated very easily when the movements start taking off in spontaneous practice.

To me, the concept of following oneself has the concept of respecting oneself and of being kind to oneself Embedded within it.

I can't speak for you, but If I was feeling dizzy or nauseous i would slow right down to very slow pulsing... Although, I would not end up there in the first place, because it I dont push myself in practice, I follow myself...

 

The Important question here is, do you push yourself? What leads to you getting dizzy?

If you are not pushing your self here, have you seen a doctor? shaking practises [i hear] can agitate a few medical conditions.

 

And if that's not it, Hows your energy system? Do you have Kundalini history that you know of?

[Creation]

To me, the concept of following oneself has the concept of respecting oneself and of being kind to oneself Embedded within it.

I can't speak for you, but If I was feeling dizzy or nauseous i would slow right down to very slow pulsing... Although, I would not end up there in the first place, because it I dont push myself in practice, I follow myself...

 

The Important question here is, do you push yourself? What leads to you getting dizzy?

If you are not pushing your self here, have you seen a doctor? shaking practises [i hear] can agitate a few medical conditions.

 

And if that's not it, Hows your energy system? Do you have Kundalini history that you know of?

Hmmm...

 

The times I am referring to, the more I let go of mental control, the more violent and agitated the movements become, and the more icky I begin to feel. I am not in any way consciously encouraging the movements. So I'm kind of confused about the whole letting go thing. Could you speak to how your concept of "following yourself" is different than letting go and letting your body move however it wants to? I think all the negative stuff in my system is trying to rush out all at once and there is a traffic jam. What to do about this? Let go less? So much for reckless abandon .

 

When you say slow pulsing, what should I be pulsing?

 

I don't think my energy system is particularly strong or balanced. I have major emotional trauma stored in my trauma from infancy, childhood, and most likely birth and pre birth. No kundalini activity that I know of. Should I be worried that if I do awaken kundalini it would be a hellish nightmare, given how quickly shaking can turn bad?

Edited November 19, 2011 by Creation

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Hmmm...

 

The times I am referring to, the more I let go of mental control, the more violent and agitated the movements become, and the more icky I begin to feel. I am not in any way consciously encouraging the movements.

 

Obviously, listen to those with credential and experience on this before myself, but it sounds to me like you would be best to do some qi gong which involves purging and gathering, such as Primordial Qi Gong a la Ken Cohen, so that you can replace the dark energy with pure light energy.

 

This reminds me of people who do Ayuhuasca but first need to go through a few weeks of purging with various herbal and other preparations. There needs to be proper ceremony to purify the vessel before the pure energies will knock on your door. In fact, if you can see Ken Cohen he may be able to help with such preparation, though understand that proper ceremony and offering need to be appreciated.

 

just thought I would put that down for consideration by yourself or the facilitators.

 

Peace...

[Sahaj Nath]

Consciously, I was ready to jump right in, but I felt myself tensing up, completely involuntarily and unconsciously, and in an instant I was awake.

 

So your advice, however good, does not speak to the issue I was referring to. It is an automatic reflex. If anyone knows how to deal with that, please let me know.

 

repetition is the mother of skill. the more you make a habit of going places that scare you, of facing trauma head-on, the more VOLUNTARY those responses become. but it's not always a safe thing to do. as i said, it may not be for you. in my world, there is no safety or security in spiritual practice.

 

Now this,

 

is something I would love if you would speak more about. I'm sorry, but I really can't relate to this statement. Perhaps it is a life experience thing?

 

perhaps. fear can make you tense and jumpy when you're in a state of reaction, but it can make you loose and supple when you're in a state of quiescence or acceptance. it's a conscious practice to make the involuntary reactions progressively more and more voluntary. it might take a lot of practice, but it can be done.

 

we are traumatized when events shut us down, never when they open us up. we are traumatized when we try to make reality NOT happen or NOT be true. when we can radically accept the WHOLE of life, not just good stuff, THEN we can be fit to receive.

 

take me. i was homeless as a child, molested, beaten, neglected, then later on i was shot, stabbed, beaten some more... i've seen friends killed in front of me, i have lived moments of incredible bravery AND moments of unthinkable cowardice. i've faced every demon i could possibly face, and the only key which kept me sane was my ability to open up, be naked and vulnerable to all of it. had i stayed in resistance, or avoidance, or denial, or any of that, i would probably be medicated and undergoing psychotherapy today.

 

today i am fearless in life, which doesn't mean that i don't feel fear, but that i am not afraid to feel fear or anything else. i don't avoid. i dive in, with reckless abandon.

 

it's a practice worth cultivating, and i personally believe it's a big reason for why i've been able to exceed folks who have decades more spiritual training under their belt.

 

Hmmm...

 

The times I am referring to, the more I let go of mental control, the more violent and agitated the movements become, and the more icky I begin to feel. I am not in any way consciously encouraging the movements. So I'm kind of confused about the whole letting go thing. Could you speak to how your concept of "following yourself" is different than letting go and letting your body move however it wants to? I think all the negative stuff in my system is trying to rush out all at once and there is a traffic jam. What to do about this? Let go less? So much for reckless abandon .

 

the whole "reckless abandon" notion is my idea, not Seth's. he and i tread very similar ground, but this is one of those areas where we might part ways a bit. i'm i big fan of "pushing yourself," and i believe that there is a time for both pushing and for following. but i'm pretty sure that my approach is a lot more pushy than Seth's. i'm more concerned with what is effective than i am with what is safe. i seldom give consideration to what is safe. i like to break rules, challenge taboos, transgress dogmas. and i have yet to regret any of it. so... *shrugs*

 

i'd say let go if you can let go, and if you need to throw up, then throw up. purging is a natural process. i say go there. keep a bucket with you if you need to. one of my guys next door does that. BUT, my guy next door has his teacher (me) to guide him, so without knowing you in real life, i couldn't recommend my approach for you.

 

 

 

When you say slow pulsing, what should I be pulsing?

 

I don't think my energy system is particularly strong or balanced. I have major emotional trauma stored in my trauma from infancy, childhood, and most likely birth and pre birth. No kundalini activity that I know of. Should I be worried that if I do awaken kundalini it would be a hellish nightmare, given how quickly shaking can turn bad?

 

sounds as if you ARE, in fact, worried about the possible outcomes, which would suggest to me that you might want to take a few steps back and re-evaluate why you do any of this. and since it hasn't been asked yet, what is your goal in your practice? what are you hoping to gain or accomplish?

 

the benefit of working with a guru is that Kundalini is almost always a relatively smooth ride when induced through darshan and shaktipat. there might be some bumps in the road here and there, but trust in the teacher and the process goes a long way. you'd be hard-pressed to find kundalini syndrome in any real sangha.

 

i shared a few of the traumatic events in my life above. there's more, but i figured that was enough to make the point. but what i do know is that so long as those traumas remain, there will be limits on your capacity and ability. how that all plays out for you in your life is for you to examine and come to terms with.

 

everyone should respect their limitations, and self-honesty is key in understanding where those lines are. if you know where your lines are, then simply honor that and work at your own pace. forget what i or anyone else has to say to the contrary.

[Seth Ananda]

Brilliant post Hundun

[RiverSnake]

Thanks for the reply Seth. I have never done any formal shaking practice but tend to spontaneously shake throughout the day...all my friends just look at me like i am crazy and say what the hell was that! My body must be trying to get rid of some bad juju.

 

Just did 1 hr this morning. I noticed that a lot of subtle pains and blockages that i have been feeling in my body for awhile now became more pronounced as you move and that they dissolved a bit but are still there. It seems to me like the shaking works with the breath. When i breath while i am shaking i feel i am exhaling fumes. Not sure if that makes any sense.

 

This sunday gonna be fasting and doin an all day Chi-Gung marathon. I think i'll start out with a 3 hr shake session .

 

-Thanks for the tips, Peace

[Seth Ananda]

 

the whole "reckless abandon" notion is my idea, not Seth's. he and i tread very similar ground, but this is one of those areas where we might part ways a bit. i'm i big fan of "pushing yourself," and i believe that there is a time for both pushing and for following. but i'm pretty sure that my approach is a lot more pushy than Seth's. i'm more concerned with what is effective than i am with what is safe. i seldom give consideration to what is safe. i like to break rules, challenge taboos, transgress dogmas. and i have yet to regret any of it. so... *shrugs*

 

I have been thinking about your points Hundun, and I think I may have overemphasised the follow yourself as being contrary to pushing yourself.

As you have said, there really is a time to push yourself, but I think following oneself will lead to that as well.

 

I think the reason I overemphasised the following, is having lived for a few years with Sanyassins {you know the ones, lol} and done Dynamic each morning and Kundalini each evening.. In which one just pushes oneself to try and have some Cathartic experience. This was good in my early 20's but then years later, all it does is leave me with a hoarse voice... and no emotional access whatsoever...

Then I found the Spontaneous Philosophy's, and found that it was suddenly a total journey into my being, and far far more effective and introspective than just forcing the whole thing...

 

But I have always been an extremist when it comes to my path, which is why I like such long sessions... {or even longer}

Then again, I am probably over cautious with new students, or with people I don't know personally...

 

Anyway Hundun, thanks for being your awesome self, and for your help with the Shaking stuff

Peace be upon you!

[mYTHmAKER]

Hundun, on 19 November 2011 - 06:01 PM, said: i'm i big fan of "pushing yourself," and i believe that there is a time for both pushing and for following.

 

yang - yin Baby

Edited November 21, 2011 by mYTHmAKER

[Mokona]

I've heard that until an internal source of chi develops through seated meditation and belly breath not much happens with some other techniques, would anyone care to comment? I don't know for sure either way - i'm a beginner who hasen't noticed any chi being built internally yet and can't say..

[konchog uma]

I've heard that until an internal source of chi develops through seated meditation and belly breath not much happens with some other techniques, would anyone care to comment? I don't know for sure either way - i'm a beginner who hasen't noticed any chi being built internally yet and can't say..

 

Hi mokona,

 

maybe it would help if you said what you were practicing, or which practices you had heard lacked effectiveness without reserve of energy.

 

I think its true that energy work is more effective the more qi you have, so maybe the second part isn't as relevant. I think the most effective thing for me in building energy is reverse abdominal breathing, and daily practice. Just my 2c

[Mokona]

Hi mokona,

 

maybe it would help if you said what you were practicing, or which practices you had heard lacked effectiveness without reserve of energy.

 

I think its true that energy work is more effective the more qi you have, so maybe the second part isn't as relevant. I think the most effective thing for me in building energy is reverse abdominal breathing, and daily practice. Just my 2c

 

Chi kung and MCO, internal alchemy and inner smile. I've felt psychological differences from the chi kung but not noticed anything energeticly, and right now i'm sure i'm only imagining the MCO becuase I'm just moving my tactile sensation with my mind.

 

So I was thinking I should add back in more seated meditation and deep Buddha breath. Does this make sense?

[Sahaj Nath]

I have been thinking about your points Hundun, and I think I may have overemphasised the follow yourself as being contrary to pushing yourself.

As you have said, there really is a time to push yourself, but I think following oneself will lead to that as well.

 

I think the reason I overemphasised the following, is having lived for a few years with Sanyassins {you know the ones, lol} and done Dynamic each morning and Kundalini each evening.. In which one just pushes oneself to try and have some Cathartic experience. This was good in my early 20's but then years later, all it does is leave me with a hoarse voice... and no emotional access whatsoever...

Then I found the Spontaneous Philosophy's, and found that it was suddenly a total journey into my being, and far far more effective and introspective than just forcing the whole thing...

 

But I have always been an extremist when it comes to my path, which is why I like such long sessions... {or even longer}

Then again, I am probably over cautious with new students, or with people I don't know personally...

 

Anyway Hundun, thanks for being your awesome self, and for your help with the Shaking stuff

Peace be upon you!

 

 

it's all love, bro. more than anything, i was mainly drawing a distinction so that you weren't left answering for me or defending something that i had said. that's all. i think it's pretty clear that you and i basically resonate on the same frequency.

 

I've heard that until an internal source of chi develops through seated meditation and belly breath not much happens with some other techniques, would anyone care to comment? I don't know for sure either way - i'm a beginner who hasen't noticed any chi being built internally yet and can't say..

 

in a nutshell, no. claims like that are almost never true. you might want to clarify what you mean by "not much happens" and "some other techniques," but as a general rule, the internal arts are more art than science. people are taught in terms of concrete protocols, and so they tend to think that it MUST work that way or that it can ONLY work that way. simply not true.

 

Jerry Alan Johnson, for instance, is a BIG fan of moving qigong, and he believes movement to be far superior to mere standing or seated practice. now, all movements aren't created equal, so it would be misguided to start making blanket inferences from that.

 

let your own practice teach you what is true and what is not with regard to claims like that.

Edited November 21, 2011 by Hundun

[konchog uma]

Chi kung and MCO, internal alchemy and inner smile. I've felt psychological differences from the chi kung but not noticed anything energeticly, and right now i'm sure i'm only imagining the MCO becuase I'm just moving my tactile sensation with my mind.

 

So I was thinking I should add back in more seated meditation and deep Buddha breath. Does this make sense?

 

well the MCO starts with imaginings, and as long as you know they are imaginings right now, thats a good sign that youre on your way. Just stick with it, qi is so subtle that it builds but just a little every day so we don't notice it, and then if you compare your energy today with your energy a month ago, you would notice, but you can't do that directly. I don't know if that made any sense

 

buddhist breathing and daoist breathing are a good combo, just something for consideration. I hope more people chime in to help you.

[Mokona]

well the MCO starts with imaginings, and as long as you know they are imaginings right now, thats a good sign that youre on your way. Just stick with it, qi is so subtle that it builds but just a little every day so we don't notice it, and then if you compare your energy today with your energy a month ago, you would notice, but you can't do that directly. I don't know if that made any sense

 

buddhist breathing and daoist breathing are a good combo, just something for consideration. I hope more people chime in to help you.

 

Well, I have the course material and contact info of my instructor. I'm just trying to continue my learning. I'm revisiting old books for more facts and materials. Anything to help it out you know.

 

Also, I totally get what your saying about the subtle building. BEfore I started reading chi building materials and attended that class I tried it on my own and after a time noticed that my energy reached out far enough for me to feel people coming from a far distance away, and I could taste what their energy was like, in a fashion, and had moments when people noticed me pass by feel and didn't know how to explain it.

 

Of course I didn't keep up and I don't know if the practice I was doing (Following my intuition and meditating) was healthy. WHo knows, doing that to my energy could have screwed something up. I do know I'm more impatient now that I know I can get to that level. LOL - Give me instant results! Just kidding.

[RiverSnake]

Hey Seth been doing a bit of shaking and have personally felt the benefits.

 

However, i was wondering if you could tell about some of the benefits you and other have gotten get from the practice and also if you already practice Chi-Gung or some kind of cultivation in what way can it compliment your practice?

 

-Chris

[konchog uma]

RV,

 

Well not to be argumentative but I am not the only one I have heard say that. At any rate, it was indeed my personal experience to imagine it before it happened. Im sure there is more than one way to circulate the MCO tho

[konchog uma]

Just wanted to make sure that your statement was not accepted as the SOLE way to access the MCO.

 

I agree with you that others have written about, and utlilized, the "imagine" or "visualization" techniques to initiate the MCO. From the little that I have read, this appears to be a popular way to teach it.

 

yeah, sorry i phrased it in such a um definitive way, i am under no such delusion myself

[Birch]

I found this http://www.vplate.co.uk/vibration-therapy/

 

Shaking practice is free :-)

[JustBHappy]

 

 

today i am fearless in life, which doesn't mean that i don't feel fear, but that i am not afraid to feel fear or anything else. i don't avoid. i dive in, with reckless abandon.

 

 

 

 

This in my opinion is the key. Not avoid, not repress, not fight against, but simply to feel and be.

 

This is not just about fear, this applies to anger, jealousy, sorrow, pride, and the myriad of thoughts and feelings that come out of these. This is true spiritual courage, to be able to "be" with whatever arises without judging, resisting, or running away from the experience. It takes true courage to simply "be" with our experience. Bonus points if you can jump in with reckless abandon!