Gettin' Ready for the Rapture

[Aaron]

Interesting reaction, Twinner. Why the hostility?

 

Just getting tired of all the hypocrisy and bigotry hiding out under the guise of wisdom and intellectualism. I would recommend that the people making fun of Christianity right now should remember this next time someone makes fun of something they believe in... what's good the for the goose and all that.

 

Aaron

[Ulises]

Just getting tired of all the hypocrisy and bigotry hiding out under the guise of wisdom and intellectualism. I would recommend that the people making fun of Christianity right now should remember this next time someone makes fun of something they believe in... what's good the for the goose and all that.

 

Aaron

 

 

I'll always make fun - it's the best medicine - of any fanatic that tries to impose his demented ideology, be it Christian, Muslim, Buddhist...(remember the Inquisition, the Crusades, the European religious wars, the masacres of the Americas...etc. etc.?)

I come from a European country that was under a horrible Christian fascist agenda for 40 years until 1978...(that without mentioning the Inquisition) we forget very easily the living hell that the religious fanatics of any kind, try to impose again and again...

Edited March 17, 2011 by Ulises

[Encephalon]

Just getting tired of all the hypocrisy and bigotry hiding out under the guise of wisdom and intellectualism. I would recommend that the people making fun of Christianity right now should remember this next time someone makes fun of something they believe in... what's good the for the goose and all that.

 

Aaron

 

I'd be right there with you if it weren't for the fact that Harold camping and his ilk would stone to death everyone us in this forum if they were so ordered and empowered. Such is the nature of minds trapped in the early Iron Age.

 

Maybe a little more nuance, and less false piety is in order? You didn't see us ripping Thomas Merton to pieces. And Thomas Merton didn't plaster the country's billboards and airwaves with hatred and delusion.

[Aaron]

I'd be right there with you if it weren't for the fact that Harold camping and his ilk would stone to death everyone us in this forum if they were so ordered and empowered. Such is the nature of minds trapped in the early Iron Age.

 

Maybe a little more nuance, and less false piety is in order? You didn't see us ripping Thomas Merton to pieces. And Thomas Merton didn't plaster the country's billboards and airwaves with hatred and delusion.

 

The thing you fail to see is that violence begets violence. When one reacts with hate it brings about hate. The only real way to have peace is to live peacefully. The only way to show a sincere love and compassion for all people is to treat everyone with love and compassion. You don't have to agree with what this person says, but in the same sense when you call him names or ridicule what he says, what you're actually doing is kicking the hornets nest. When you react to what he says, you actually empower him more than if you simply ignore him.

 

Aaron

 

edit- And lets be honest, in the world we live in today, the chances that he'll ever be able to stone you is slim, at least in California, so in the end there's no skin of your nose.

Edited March 18, 2011 by Twinner

[Encephalon]

The thing you fail to see is that violence begets violence. When one reacts with hate it brings about hate. The only real way to have peace is to live peacefully. The only way to show a sincere love and compassion for all people is to treat everyone with love and compassion. You don't have to agree with what this person says, but in the same sense when you call him names or ridicule what he says, what you're actually doing is kicking the hornets nest. When you react to what he says, you actually empower him more than if you simply ignore him.

 

Aaron

 

edit- And lets be honest, in the world we live in today, the chances that he'll ever be able to stone you is slim, at least in California, so in the end there's no skin of your nose.

 

Well, Aaron, I have to concede that you've made some clever points. Please take note that I didn't tag his billboard or impugn him on his radio call-in show; I know to leave a hornet's nest alone, and I don't believe he's monitoring our forum.

 

I posted this as an example of what we are dealing with. My stoning reference was not out of a genuine fear that they might storm the beaches of Santa Monica with rocks; I'm pointing out that their willingness to do so under the evil tutelage of these religious personalities is a threat that is far from peaking.

 

Hugs.

Edited March 18, 2011 by Blasto

[Sloppy Zhang]

There seems to be a lot of short term memory loss in this forum.

 

Just speaking for myself here, I typically don't hold stuff to people very long, especially on the internet.

 

I've agreed with plenty of people in one thread, then vehemently disagreed with them in the next.

 

Unless there is a long term, significant trend which dictates a type of post that is repeatedly made, I treat each post as just a post and each thread as a thread, doing my best not to carry too much baggage from one to the other.

 

Maybe it's not applicable in this instance, but perhaps something to keep in mind.

 

If I have the right to change my mind, and act differently in one post or one thread than I do another, so do other people. I'll address each with whatever response I feel it best deserves from me

[Ulises]

The thing you fail to see is that violence begets violence. When one reacts with hate it brings about hate. The only real way to have peace is to live peacefully. The only way to show a sincere love and compassion for all people is to treat everyone with love and compassion. You don't have to agree with what this person says, but in the same sense when you call him names or ridicule what he says, what you're actually doing is kicking the hornets nest. When you react to what he says, you actually empower him more than if you simply ignore him.

 

Aaron

 

edit- And lets be honest, in the world we live in today, the chances that he'll ever be able to stone you is slim, at least in California, so in the end there's no skin of your nose.

 

 

 

Violent attacks by Christians:

 

Although most expressions of intolerance by Christians have been verbal, there have been some instances of violence, including:

The 1995 bombing of the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, OK, by Timothy McVeigh killed 168, including 19 children.

One lynching, one attempted mass murder by stoning, and numerous fire bombings, shootings, and assaults victimized Wiccans and other Neopagans in the U.S. during the late 20th century. To our knowledge, all were perpetrated by Fundamentalist Christians. The increasing public awareness of, and knowledge about, Wicca, such attacks have reduced the frequency of these attacks to near zero over the past 25 years.

Fundamentalist Christians have attacked Jewish centers, attempted to poison municipal water supplies, bombed abortion clinics, and assassinated abortion providers.

 

The members of the Christian organizations perpetrating these crimes seem to be convinced that the forces of truth wage a perennial, cosmic battle with the forces of falsehood, and that they face the challenge of protecting Christian truth by any methods available. That they are allowing Jesus’ cross to become Mithras’ sword does not occur to them. There are fewer attacks by Christians than by Muslim terrorists apparently because the former organizations are less numerous, their individual agendas differ, and that there is a lack of cooperation; their actions are not coordinated.

 

To put it simplistically (reality is always much more complex; now they are talking of hyper-complexity...):

 

Mystics discover, are open, progressively embody, the Big Mystery, Being/Consciousness/Bliss), call it what you want, in the world: the force of love

The religious zealots are mind zombies, compulsively trying to convert others to their zombie mind, full of ignorance, fear, hate, of a sick belief system. They resent that violence inflicted on their minds and try to replicate that violence on others... the love of force

 

http://www.religioustolerance.org/relhateex.htm

Edited March 18, 2011 by Ulises

[sifusufi]

The thing you fail to see is that violence begets violence. When one reacts with hate it brings about hate. The only real way to have peace is to live peacefully. The only way to show a sincere love and compassion for all people is to treat everyone with love and compassion. You don't have to agree with what this person says, but in the same sense when you call him names or ridicule what he says, what you're actually doing is kicking the hornets nest. When you react to what he says, you actually empower him more than if you simply ignore him.

 

Aaron

 

edit- And lets be honest, in the world we live in today, the chances that he'll ever be able to stone you is slim, at least in California, so in the end there's no skin of your nose.

 

Ahem!!!

Amen

 

http://mog.com/MOG_News/blog/2003777

 

http://music-mix.ew....estboro-picket/

 

http://laist.com/201...est.php#photo-1

 

http://latimesblogs....al-protest.html

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=DfDTpxR7684

 

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

[sifusufi]

Dio is one of the kindest gentlest loving souls to have lived and loved,any one who says otherwise has never known him or his level of spirituality

 

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=p8MRlHXGOXk

 

Anyway there are dozens of Dio interviews and documentaries which involve Ronnie.

Nothing but love and good vibes.

 

Talk amongst yourselves - Coffee talk

[Ulises]

[Encephalon]

Just speaking for myself here, I typically don't hold stuff to people very long, especially on the internet.

 

I've agreed with plenty of people in one thread, then vehemently disagreed with them in the next.

 

Unless there is a long term, significant trend which dictates a type of post that is repeatedly made, I treat each post as just a post and each thread as a thread, doing my best not to carry too much baggage from one to the other.

 

Maybe it's not applicable in this instance, but perhaps something to keep in mind.

 

If I have the right to change my mind, and act differently in one post or one thread than I do another, so do other people. I'll address each with whatever response I feel it best deserves from me

 

What? Are some kind of freak?

Edited March 18, 2011 by Blasto

[Ulises]

mysticism, humor, refreshing inquiry...this is not the crazyness of Christian literalism...

 

"This very small book explains how this translation was done - looking at not just literal translation but other layers of meaning. Our Sunday study group (some Christian, many not) found it deeply inspiring and enriching. It brings into sharp focus the patriarchal, hierarchical mindset of King James' translators. They were a product of their times and of whatever political pressure may have been brought to bear upon them..."

 

"Reinterpreting the Lord's Prayer and the Beatitudes from the vantage of Middle Eastern mysticism, Douglas-Klotz offers a radical new translation of the words of Jesus Christ that reveals a mystical, feminist, cosmic Christ..."

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060619953?ie=UTF8&tag=open-secrets-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=0060619953

 

"What a wonderful film. Julia Sweeney amazed me with her wit, dialogue and personal inquiry into God.

I noticed as the film progressed and Julia got deeper and deeper into exploring her belief in God, religion and personal meaning – she started looking more and more yummy to me. At first, I thought it was about her as a person, but I soon realized that it was the exploration that was arousing my appetite – the more she talked, the more I wanted to tag along with her. The humor was delicious, the dialogue was a veritable cornucopia of spices, and her facial expressions were a feast for the eyes. I was relishing the experience.(...)

I thoroughly enjoyed the path and process of Julia’s exploration. Her resolution of more openness and mystery to replace dogma, conditioning and reification seems logical to me, though the question of the non-dual never really gets addressed."

 

http://www.juliasweeney.com/letting_go_mini/

Edited March 18, 2011 by Ulises

[Aaron]

Well, Aaron, I have to concede that you've made some clever points. Please take note that I didn't tag his billboard or impugn him on his radio call-in show; I know to leave a hornet's nest alone, and I don't believe he's monitoring our forum.

 

I posted this as an example of what we are dealing with. My stoning reference was not out of a genuine fear that they might storm the beaches of Santa Monica with rocks; I'm pointing out that their willingness to do so under the evil tutelage of these religious personalities is a threat that is far from peaking.

 

Hugs.

 

Hello Blasto,

 

 

Did they actually refer to stoning? If so then you may have something to worry about. My opinion is that no one's opinion matters. Opinions don't change anything, things are what they are. I tend to worry about how people behave, more than what they actually think. With that said, I'm not advocating moralism, rather what I am saying is that you can tell a lot about someone by what they do, rather than what they say. With that said, I wouldn't say anything about this, unless I felt it was worth adding. In the end the easiest way to live peacefully with your neighbor is to stay in your own yard.

 

Thank you for the hugs, but next time keep your hands north of the border. Just kidding... hehehe... that made me laugh.

 

Aaron

Edited March 18, 2011 by Twinner

[Ulises]

[Ulises]

Hello Blasto,

 

 

Did they actually refer to stoning? If so then you may have something to worry about. My opinion is that no one's opinion matters. Opinions don't change anything, things are what they are. I tend to worry about how people behave, more than what they actually think. With that said, I'm not advocating moralism, rather what I am saying is that you can tell a lot about someone by what they do, rather than what they say. With that said, I wouldn't say anything about this, unless I felt it was worth adding. In the end the easiest way to live peacefully with your neighbor is to stay in your own yard.

 

Thank you for the hugs, but next time keep your hands north of the border. Just kidding... hehehe... that made me laugh.

 

Aaron

 

 

Speaking of stoning...received right now via facebook:

70 Year-Old Pennsylvania Man Stoned to Death "Because the Old Testament Refers to Stoning Homosexuals"

 

http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/533281/70_year-old_pennsylvania_man_stoned_to_death_%22because_the_old_testament_refers_to_stoning_homosexuals%22/

Edited March 18, 2011 by Ulises

[Aaron]

Speaking of stoning...received right now via facebook:

70 Year-Old Pennsylvania Man Stoned to Death "Because the Old Testament Refers to Stoning Homosexuals"

 

http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/533281/70_year-old_pennsylvania_man_stoned_to_death_%22because_the_old_testament_refers_to_stoning_homosexuals%22/

 

That's horrible that this happened, but I'm sure you'll find in the next few weeks that this man was killed for some other reason and that this was merely an excuse. In my non-professional opinion, if he had killed the man because of homosexual overtures, then he would have to be extremely homophobic and prone to violent outbursts. Taking the time to place a rock in a sock and beat him to death isn't necessarily indicative of that kind of mindset, but rather indicates premeditation that would lead one to believe that he was killing the man for some other reason and using stoning as an alibi in order to lesson the severity of the crime.

 

With that said, he really is a lone nutter. If you see one case like this in five years you're lucky. Of course if you want to overreact and blow it out of proportions, that's your prerogative. As for me, I'll just be happy that the vast majority of people in the US don't actually feel this way.

 

As an aside, you obviously have strong feelings about Mainstream Christianity, which is one of the reasons I haven't responded to your comments, because I didn't want to be pulled into a debate about the topic. I would recommend that you examine the reason for this hatred and intolerance, because in the end it's probably causing you to suffer more than it is the Christians and other religious people that you seem to disagree with.

 

Aaron

 

edit- Also I am gay... so my joke comment wasn't meant to be homophobic, but rather humorous.

Edited March 18, 2011 by Twinner

[3bob]

:lol:

 

That Jesus sure knows how to make an entrance. You'd think with all the resources available to him (Catholic church coffers) he'd put an ad in the middle of the superbowl.

 

"Jesus" is a particular soul, "Christ" is a creative force,

 

and mockery is neither of those.

[Ulises]

That's horrible that this happened, but I'm sure you'll find in the next few weeks that this man was killed for some other reason and that this was merely an excuse. In my non-professional opinion, if he had killed the man because of homosexual overtures, then he would have to be extremely homophobic and prone to violent outbursts. Taking the time to place a rock in a sock and beat him to death isn't necessarily indicative of that kind of mindset, but rather indicates premeditation that would lead one to believe that he was killing the man for some other reason and using stoning as an alibi in order to lesson the severity of the crime.

 

With that said, he really is a lone nutter. If you see one case like this in five years you're lucky. Of course if you want to overreact and blow it out of proportions, that's your prerogative. As for me, I'll just be happy that the vast majority of people in the US don't actually feel this way.

 

As an aside, you obviously have strong feelings about Mainstream Christianity, which is one of the reasons I haven't responded to your comments, because I didn't want to be pulled into a debate about the topic. I would recommend that you examine the reason for this hatred and intolerance, because in the end it's probably causing you to suffer more than it is the Christians and other religious people that you seem to disagree with.

 

Aaron

 

edit- Also I am gay... so my joke comment wasn't meant to be homophobic, but rather humorous.

 

 

I don't have "hatred and intolerance" towards "mainstrean Christianity" (curious term). In fact, I've been strongly influenced by mystical Christianity, especially the Celtic branch (I will call it "authentic Christianity", following your labeling...).

What I strongly feel - as many mystics covertly or overtly, like Tim Freke, are suggesting - is that it's time to update the Abrahamic traditions Christianity, ISlam, Judaism) that are putting in risk Humankind: time to throw the dirt water of crazy literalism and small-heartedness and to embrace vibrant experience leading to a integral transformation (that was the original purpose of religion, remember?: "Metanoia", mystical transformation, acorrding to St. Paul...).

Time to surrender to the amazing love of the Christ within (not the agonising fetish of a imperialist death-cult promoted by Constantine), the Cosmic Christ/Budhha nature/Shiva nature/Logos/Tao/call it what you want...

 

As Alan Watts said, then Christianity will be as originally was formulated: a mystical wisdom tradition, not a soul prison...

http://www.archive.org/details/mythandritualinc013384mbp

 

Do you realize the cruel irony that most of the Christian mystics (St. Teresa de Avila, San Juan de la Cruz,etc.etc.) were killed, tortured put in prison or silenced by the "mainstream Christianity" authorities...? The last example,a few years ago, with the silencing of the most amazing mystic theologians...(now they cannot burn them, because of the work of many free-thinkers in the last 200 years, from Voltaire to Bertrand Russell)

What I have is a deep desire to help freeing my fellow humans from the tiranny of limitating, unhealthy beliefs, and remembering who we are, magical loving beings sprouting from a magical, loving Earth/Cosmos Consciousness...

 

 

By the way, did you know that "rapture" is related to one of the msytical states...?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIaY0l5qV0c

 

 

 

"For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life": time to put aside the letter (Bible) and to feel the Spirit...

Edited March 18, 2011 by Ulises

[3bob]

[Ulises]

"The real proof of a spiritual perspective is wether leads to actual results in practice, wether by applying the understanding individuals opens up to their true nature in a way that develops their soul"

[Ulises]

"...we almost are in a crossroads: if we continue what we have been doing -which is very destructive and self-destructive to our species and to other species, to life in general - could lead to our destruction. But if somehow the whole process is interiorized - you know, when people get involved in a kind of process of inner transformation, a kind of psychospiritual death-and-rebirth - then we could rise to a whole other level of evolution...where we would almost become a different species....
I've seen many people who have done this kind of work under responsible circunstances - they went through this process of inner transformation - that they developed a completely new worldview, a completely new hierarchy of values...if we had a species like that, we would have a world constitution that would protect life, Nature...agression would be outlawed as an inacceptable form of solving conflict, there would be a form of planetary citizenship with many nationalities as just and indication of the incredible richness of creation..."
Stanislav Grof

http://www.futureprimitive.org/2011/03/stan-grof-personal-experience-and-spiritual-quest/ Edited March 19, 2011 by Ulises

[Ulises]

[Ulises]

Christofascism in "mainstream Christianity" media:

 

[i]Mel Gibson’s “The Passion of the Christ”: Mel Gibson’s Passion and Fascism’s Piety of Pain (Excerpts)

 

Many years ago, after finishing doctoral studies in Paris, I spent a semester at the University of Munster in Germany. While there I lived in a Dominican convent which housed about six other Dominicans, one of whom was old and very strange and never appeared during the day time at meals or for any other reason. He seemed only to go out at night. One day I was asked to go in his room to fetch a book and I was amazed to see the books on his bookshelf (including Mein Kampf). I was especially amazed by a “holy card” on his prie dieu (a place where one kneels to pray). This “holy card” was the most gory I had ever seen, with Jesus depicted as thoroughly bloodied, beaten, abused and victimized. I later learned that this Dominican priest with the gory holy card was a self-appointed “chaplain to the Nazi’s of Munster”. The year was 1970.

 

As I sat and watched Mel Gibson’s “The Passion of the Christ,” with its unrelenting emphasis on blood and gore I had a déjà vu experience as I vividly recalled this Dominican priest and his particular form of piety. Gibson set out his intentions for his film in an interview: “I want to push you over the edge, push you right over the edge, so you can stay there and hang out with and get to a higher plane… through the pain.” Piety as pain, pain as piety. This movie opens a door on fascist piety which is pain-driven.

 

The piety of fascism is inevitably a piety of pain and suffering (thus the complete fascination with redemption and total refusal to entertain grace and original blessing) and it manifests itself in full bloody form in this movie. Gibson is allegedly a member of Opus Dei, a secretive Catholic sect of wealthy men whose spirituality is deeply fascistic. Its founder, a Spanish priest named Escriva, whom the Pope rushed into canonization two years ago in record time, was a card carrying fascist who actually praised Adolph Hitler and who was also deeply sexist. Two of his Opus Dei members served on Franco’s cabinet. The present pope has taken this religious order under his wing (his own press secretary is a member of Opus Dei) and has appointed many Opus Dei bishops and cardinals (especially in Latin America after decimating the liberation theology and base communities there). They have constructed an $81 million edifice in Manhattan and are ensconced in the financial capitals of Europe, especially in Frankfurt, which is replacing Switzerland as the financial capital of Europe.

 

It is no wonder, then, that this film is being seen by so many Christian groups whose piety is built more on fear than it is on love and hope, more on sin than on blessing, more on victimization than on liberation. It provides a logical haven for fall/redemption religious world views. No wonder Gibson leaves out so much of the message of Jesus: It is not compatible with fascism which is about control and not justice, about power-over, not power-with (compassion).

[/i]

Matthew Fox, theologian and mystic

 

***

 

Citing Christian mystic Meister Eckhart, among others, Fox calls for a return to mysticism (an experiential, nondualistic, "right-brain" way) and a shift in focus from the historical Jesus to a pantheistically understood "Cosmic Christ" who is continually incarnated in all creation.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Coming-Cosmic-Christ-Matthew-Fox/dp/0060629150

Edited March 19, 2011 by Ulises

[Spectrum]

Intolerance of intolerance now there's something differnt. Pschye

[Ulises]

Intolerance of intolerance now there's something differnt. Pschye

 

 

 

Tolerance of intolerants led to the triumph of Nazism...