A British boy remembers his past life - Channel 5 reports..

[Marblehead]

... They did research, got names, investigated the past.

Michael

 

I'll take your word for it.

[Marblehead]

The endless cycle of life ...

 

Hi Gerard,

 

I cannot speak to either of your paragraphs so all I can say is thanks for responding to my question.

[Marblehead]

We also discover new processes. Electromagnetic fields weren't just there in the stoneage view of what constituted natural processes.

 

 

Mandrake

 

Excellent point.

[Marblehead]

Evolution is a theory, still, in scientific parlance. But also fact, if one by that means that it can be observed readily in nature.

 

 

Mandrake

 

It really is a fact. It has been demonstrated numerous time with short-lived creatures and plants.

 

No, I cannot present the research data at this time.

[Marblehead]

Correct. All theories are not scientific, some are political.

 

Parenthesis(good idea for a new thread):

 

In my opinion evolution is the worst political theory invented by people with ulterior motives.

 

It is outside the scope of this thread but evolution theory is truly debunked as soon as one starts looking at suppressed archaelogical findings.

 

Ancient civilizations on the seafloor(but nobody wants to fund research on them..), giant skulls, footprints in rocks, ancient UFO technology etc etc.

 

Even in NY Times they had articles about giant skeletons being found in the 1920s(approx.). All of these things quickly disappeared out of sight of course..

 

Just my two cents, no truth offered whatsoever.

 

That one wasn't worth two cents. It is also BS.

[Marblehead]

Marbles,

 

i always thought you are 30, maybe 30 something

 

If you knew EVERYTHING, and said it was a possibility, KNOWING firsthand it isn't, that, my friend, would be lying, wouldn't it?

 

To set the record:

 

I am 70 years old.

 

I retired from the Army over 32 years ago.

 

I don't know anything.

 

I have many opinions and understandings based on my extremely vast number of life experiences and interactions with other peope around the world.

 

I do not claim that my opinions and understandings are the final word on any subject, concept or topic.

 

All I have ever tried to do in discussions such as this is to present an alternate view.

 

I have done this in this thread.

 

I have said everything that I felt was important to the subject. Others can accept it, question it, deny it, whatever.

 

I have no desire to change anyone's opinions and beliefs. That is their personal affair. However, if I can cause anyone to think about the beliefs they hold then I have done what I set out to do.

 

If we don't ask the questions we will never get the answers.

 

And so folks, I think I should put an end to my involvement in this thread because I really am not out to bust anyone's bubble or to get anyone irritated at me.

 

May the Force be with you!

[宁]

Darn, missed by 40 years!

I wish you many more with health and wisdom.

Cheers!

[Jetsun]

It really is a fact. It has been demonstrated numerous time with short-lived creatures and plants.

 

No, I cannot present the research data at this time.

 

Yes if you take a close look at the evidence for evolution you can pretty safely regard it as a fact, yet officially you still have to categorise it as a theory. If you read professor Dawkins scientific non religious works he presents the evidence very clearly.

[Marblehead]

Darn, missed by 40 years!

I wish you many more with health and wisdom.

Cheers!

 

Thanks!

[Marblehead]

Yes if you take a close look at the evidence for evolution you can pretty safely regard it as a fact, yet officially you still have to categorise it as a theory. If you read professor Dawkins scientific non religious works he presents the evidence very clearly.

 

Yes, I understand that there are those who find it hard to accept because they have not found a way to fit it into their beliefs. That's okay.

[宁]

If the afterlife would really have a will of its own, AND a sense of humour, it would:

 

- grant rebirth to those who don't believe in it,

- welcome buddhists in the Christian heavens

- daoists in the Muslim heavens

- would annihilate Christians in the Buddhist nirvana

...

 

ah such lack of inspiration today!! Feel free to add your own options!!

[rex]

Hi Rex,

 

Yes, I have heard of these instances as well. But my first request upon hearing something like this is to ask for details of the supposed examples as well as proper scientific review of the details of the reports. Every one of them has fallen into the black hole. To the best of my knowledge not one has ever been scientifically supported.

 

All I ever ask for regarding concepts such as this is factual proof and the repeatability of the supposed experience.

 

Now, once again I will repeat something I have said many times: If it helps a person through their life and harms none other then I suggest is good for that person.

 

Hi Marblehaed,

 

The details are well documented it's just that there's no scientific instrumentation for measuring and quantifying this stuff. As Dwai said it's all empirical. The problem is establishing a methodological framework and coming up with an explanation to account for the findings. What's particularly suggestive of something beyond the established mechanistic paradigm, powerful and valuable as is it, is that hidden information is revealed that subjects would not ordinarily know about. The lingusitics professor and libray archivists were unware of the experiments and contacted after the event to confirm the details, so they act as some sort of validation. I think a lot of findings and empirical evidence is simply ignored if it does not fit with established paradigms. This is not a deliberate conspiracy but just the way operators in a paradigm can function.

 

No here's a cheeky and dangerous suggestion, if parapsychologists and the like would like to test the repeatablity of phenonmena and empirical findings and measure things with their equipment (as an aside, aren't scientific instruments just devices designed to extend the human senses to detect things that they are already aware of?) perhaps they should experiment with goetic grimoires! Research ethics and safety guidelines would probably quite rightly preclude this line of enquiry.

 

Edit: spelling

Edited March 17, 2011 by rex

[Gauss]

If the afterlife would really have a will of its own, AND a sense of humour, it would:

 

 

- welcome buddhists in the Christian heavens

 

ah such lack of inspiration today!! Feel free to add your own options!!

 

Well, they are all friends up there on that level I am sure.

 

Anyway, reincarnation is another political thing suppressed by the infamous catholic church(just like they always secretly supported the evolution theory):

 

Matthew:

 

13 For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John. 14 And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come. 15 He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

 

 

It is interesting that most people still are in the dark about the catholic church(especially the jesuits role in history with their black pope superior general) and how they interfered with science and politics.

[Marblehead]

Hi Marblehaed,

 

The details are well documented ...

 

Hi Rex,

 

Thanks for responding.

 

As I mentioned above, I am done here and on this concept for now for that matter. I have said what I needed to say and have nothing further to add.

 

Yes, there are shortcomings in the scientific field. Most scientists are well aware of that. But the problem lies more in knowing what type of instrument to develop when what is being looked for has yet given no definitive sign.

 

Kinda' like trying to measure Chi or trying to measure the density or massiveness of a black hole.

 

So I will leave the discussion of reincarnation and past lives to those who are interested in the concept.

 

Cheeezzzee!!! I still have two translations of the TTC I have not read yet.

[Jetsun]

What did the Catholic church get by repressing reincarnation?

 

I'm more of the opinion that the theory of reincarnation is an eastern form of brainwashing or social control of the masses so people think the injustices in society are a result of previous life misdeeds, so it is a way to stop people revolting against the elite who own all the wealth by making the population feel responsible for their lot rather than blame and rise up against their oppressors.

[Marblehead]

What did the Catholic church get by repressing reincarnation?

 

I'm more of the opinion that the theory of reincarnation is an eastern form of brainwashing or social control of the masses so people think the injustices in society are a result of previous life misdeeds, so it is a way to stop people revolting against the elite who own all the wealth by making the population feel responsible for their lot rather than blame and rise up against their oppressors.

 

Hehehe. Now you know I stated that I was not going to say anything else regarding this concept.

 

Whispers: I love that post!

Edited March 17, 2011 by Marblehead

[Jetsun]

For example if reincarnation had been deeply established in the West I doubt the European reformations and events like the French revolution where people destroyed class and social barriers would have ever happened, because instead of feeling the need to change things about society they would have just felt it was their own fault why they were in their position. While in places like India the disgusting class system stays firmly in place.

Edited March 17, 2011 by Jetsun

[rex]

For example if reincarnation had been deeply established in the West I doubt the European reformations and events like the French revolution where people destroyed class and social barriers would have ever happened, because instead of feeling the need to change things about society they would have just felt it was their own fault why they were in their position. While in places like India the disgusting class system stays firmly in place.

If the pressure builds up enough something like the French Revolution would have happened regardless of the dominant religious ideology used to justify the status quo. The Divine Right of Kings or reincarnation would all be the same to revolutionary iconoclasts and just dismissed as an oppressive ploy.

 

The connection between a belief in reincarnation/rebirth and a fatalistic resignation to present circumstances doesn't necessarily follow. The Sikhs, believers in reincarnation, equality and justice etc. deposed the Mughal Governor of Punjab.

[Gauss]

For example if reincarnation had been deeply established in the West I doubt the European reformations and events like the French revolution where people destroyed class and social barriers would have ever happened, because instead of feeling the need to change things about society they would have just felt it was their own fault why they were in their position.

 

 

 

Correct observation. And the Catholic church wanted to push people into the trap of "faith is everything" so that people became powerless and relied on what the priest told them. Confession sessions and letters to pay off one´s sins were also used to gain dominion over people.

 

Gnosticism(early Christianity) was actually about cultivation of body and mind through asceticism, meditation etc and one´s actions counted for everything. Also the concept of many lifetimes needed to reach consummation was used I believe.

 

PS: Sorry about falling out of the subject but were not Darwin and Marx hidden jesuits themselves??...

 

I remember reading about the "converted" catholic Oxford bishop who supported Darwin shortly after his theory was published and his grandfather who launched the evolution theory originally and later started the secret Lunar society etc - later the jesuits named every Lunar crater after Jesuits...

 

Some famous quotes about Jesuits:

 

http://s1.zetaboards.com/pumpitout/topic/2439365/1/

 

 

 

Just my two cents, no truth offered.

Edited March 17, 2011 by Gauss

[Enishi]

Based on what I have seen and been told, reincarnation and karma tend to be more complex than popular Buddhist, Hindu and New Age notions. Sometimes only one aspect of a soul reincarnates, while other aspects are part of a collective which relates to a specific society/tribe/species/point of perception.

[Jetsun]

If the pressure builds up enough something like the French Revolution would have happened regardless of the dominant religious ideology used to justify the status quo. The Divine Right of Kings or reincarnation would all be the same to revolutionary iconoclasts and just dismissed as an oppressive ploy.

 

The connection between a belief in reincarnation/rebirth and a fatalistic resignation to present circumstances doesn't necessarily follow. The Sikhs, believers in reincarnation, equality and justice etc. deposed the Mughal Governor of Punjab.

 

Yes reconsidering I think I was talking a bit simplistically about these things, but the point I was trying to make was that I think the belief in reincarnation is one of the forces keeping the status quo and making people to resigned to circumstances.

 

Also perhaps the belief in reincarnation removes the sense of urgency from peoples lives so they don't feel the need to make the most of their time and energy as they will always have other lives to do things the right way, always have the next life to get enlightened and make a difference in the world. Although you could argue this removes anxiety from things but also it could also mean you don't live in the moment and make the most of your life as you put things off to the future.

[dwai]

Yes reconsidering I think I was talking a bit simplistically about these things, but the point I was trying to make was that I think the belief in reincarnation is one of the forces keeping the status quo and making people to resigned to circumstances.

 

Also perhaps the belief in reincarnation removes the sense of urgency from peoples lives so they don't feel the need to make the most of their time and energy as they will always have other lives to do things the right way, always have the next life to get enlightened and make a difference in the world. Although you could argue this removes anxiety from things but also it could also mean you don't live in the moment and make the most of your life as you put things off to the future.

 

Actually those who believe in reincarnation also believe that it is not really ideal to have to keep recycling back into the material universe over and over again. So, they are more inspired to break the cycle of reincarnation and death and necessarily aspire to live by conditions that would help them break the cycle (the implications of these are available via the medium of any eastern spiritual tradition)

[Gauss]

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

Okay. Shall we analize this? You left cookies and milk for Santa. In the morning while you were sleeping someone took a bite from the cookie and drank some of the milk. How in the world does that prove that Santa Claus exists?

 

 

Because no one else in the house ate them and it was Christmas eve. I also saw mummy doing unspeakable things with Santa Claus (I forgave him when I received my presents).

 

 

It only proves that someone took a bite from the cookie and someone, perhaps even a different person drank a bit of milk.

 

 

He also left a sock!

 

 

And who left the presents? I do accept the informtion from you that presents were placed somewhere for you. Perhaps with your name on them?

 

 

How could you possibly know he left a name tag on them!!! You mean to say.....are you...no....could it be.......you mean YOU are Santa Claus!

 

 

NO, I have no idea where Santa Claus hides out during the summer either. Wait, isn't he working with the people in the Southern hemisphere during Northern summer? No, there's something wrong there.

 

 

Now, now, there's no need to enigmatic. It's already been established beyond any reasonable doubt that you, in fact, are Santa Claus.

 

And by the way, I have a bone to pick with you: Christmas 1982, I asked for an Star Wars At-At, and you gave me a Wampa! All the other kids at school got an At-At, imagine my shame! I mean it's not even close is it!

[Astral Monk]

In science, a "theory" is a statement that among many criteria, is backed up by lots of evidence over time, has yet failed to be falsified, produces predictions, among many criteria.

 

Thus, to state that something is "only a theory" is misguided, since this epithet isn't awarded lightly.

 

Sure sure, my point was only that the many worlds interpretation is one of a number of possibilities.

 

By itself it doesn't necessarily lend support to the concept of rebirth. That is still a separate issue, perhaps to do with the nature of consciousness as opposed to the nature and arrangement of phenomena.

 

8)