Endings

[hagar]

With the recent developments in Japan in, its fair to say that the world we knew last week is gone.

Its now a matter of realizing the global implications of the disaster, and also to what extent this will affect the lives of all humans on earth. Either the economic short or long term consequences, or the food, water and health implications for the entire northern hemisphere.

 

 

I'm not being melodramatic.

 

30 000 years is a very long time.

 

h

[Spectrum]

Sirius ly

 

facebook me right now spectrum vidavlan

 

blue diamond paths

[thelerner]

With the recent developments in Japan in, its fair to say that the world we knew last week is gone.

Its now a matter of realizing the global implications of the disaster, and also to what extent this will affect the lives of all humans on earth. Either the economic short or long term consequences, or the food, water and health implications for the entire northern hemisphere.

 

 

I'm not being melodramatic.

 

30 000 years is a very long time.

 

h

 

with all due respect, I think you're being melodramatic. Unless there's some development I'm not aware of (quite possible), I don't think we're looking at any kind of world changer. In my life time there have dozens of atomic and hydrogen bombs exploded(googled it got the figure from 1945 - 1998 is estimated to be 2,053). Every decade has brought 2 or 3 things that have been called game changers. Heck the last 3 years have brought 2 supposed world changes that have had fewer long lasting implications then most sooth sayers thought.

 

the worlds top minds are on the problem and Japan has many resources. Even in a worst case scenario I think there are plans A to Z getting in place to deal with it. My prediction is we're looking at 6 months to a year for resolution, maybe a few years at most. That doesn't mean it won't be a big radiactive site, but one covered with enough shielding so life will go on a few miles away.

 

i don't mean to belittle the tragedy; rather human ingenuity and flexibility can rival mother nature, because it was mother nature that made us what we are.

 

Michael

[Gerard]

with all due respect, I think you're being melodramatic.

 

Why?

 

Life on Earth could end or significant changes to life on Earth. A different event occured 4 billion years ago in Mars (atmosphere being wiped out by solar winds due to the planet's core spinning slower than the rest of the planet which stripped of the magnetosphere (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetosphere) and as a result the atmosphere was wiped out and life on the planet was extinguished. A similar or identical event could happen to the Earth...everything is impermanent.

 

Solar Flares and Global Warming

 

"A recent study by researchers at Duke University and the Army Research Office has found new evidence of a link between solar flare activity and the earth's temperature. The work is another contribution to the ongoing debate over global warming and its causes. A strong link between solar flares and our climate, if it exists, could override the influence humans have on the temperature of our environment. One of the challenges of determining the connection between solar flare activity and the atmosphere stems from the fact that the motion of the air that blankets our planet is turbulent and complex. A sudden burst of solar activity would, in effect, be smeared out by moving air and its interaction with the earth's surface. Any temperature increase caused by a given period of solar flare activity would be difficult to determine, at best. Rather than focus on such challenging one-to-one correlations, the new study compares the form of the statistical fluctuations in solar flare activity with the form of the statistical fluctuations of the earth's temperature.

 

The researchers (contact: Bruce J. West, 919-549-4257) explain that solar flare activity can be characterized by a type of statistics described by a Levy distribution, which is generated by a "Levy-walk." (Many natural phenomena, from foraging patterns of spider monkeys to complex hydrodynamic flows, are well described by Levy walks, although the coefficients in the relevant equations typically vary from one phenomenon to another. See Update 510-3 for one example.) Analyses of global and local temperature fluctuations are also well described by a Levy-walk. In fact, a comparison of the mathematical coefficients that describe the fluctuations suggest to the researchers that the atmosphere directly inherits its temperature fluctuations from the variation in solar flare activity. Unless some other underlying cause is responsible for the unlikely correspondence between solar flares and the earth's temperature, the research suggests that for the large part variations in global temperatures are beyond our control and are instead at the mercy of the sun's activity. (Nicola Scafetta and Bruce J. West, Physical Review Letters, 20 June 2003)"

 

Quote: http://www.aip.org/pnu/2003/split/642-2.html

 

Anyway the excessive human activity triggered by the industrial revolution which brought advances in technology and modern science is a direct result of the influence of the Wood Age (Daoist 5E theory...not the scientific method and its hypothetico-deductive model).

 

 

 

 

Video:

[Encephalon]

I submit that it's too early to tell one way or another. The only problem with the Best Minds scenario is that we don't have enough of them to keep the rest of the stupid bastards from screwing everything up in the first place! It would've been great if the best Minds could've weighed in at Chernobyl or deep-sea oilwells, but they're spread just too darn thin.

 

We've never encountered this problem before. No reactor has ever gotten so hot that we couldn't get close enough to cool it down so it's too soon to tell. As far as the Gulf of Mexico goes, it will take decades to measure any appreciable shifts in that ecosystem, so O wouldn't hold out for too much optimism.

 

But as an expectant father, part of me is compelled to.

[Nanashi]

I can understand how attached people are to comfort, but I don't see how people can be blind to how fragile life and the Earth is. There are a number of things that can cease life unexpectedly, not to mention the the current worries or strange geologic afoot.

 

I am amazed people can be worried that a bum in an alley will mug them, but will vehemently deny that Global cartels bully nations into favorable resource trade, or actively stifle competition through monopoly. Or that certain first world nations prefer a docile and stupid population, where they can pick the leaders and engineers from a small pool of the elites' offspring, following the ancient tradition of arrogant nepotism. Sure, there are many who climb a ladder in think tanks, politics, companies, etc., but people don't seem to realize the overwhelming competition that exists when attempting to change the world or better your station in the face of elite social circles and other corrupt networking.

 

Concurrently, people can believe in mystical connotations to alter reality, or chants, symbols and other alchemical artifacts to manipulate energy or others-- but these same people will laugh at others for their notions of "taboo" or silly subjects. Even with all these strong perception biases attacking each other; it's all so impermanent.

 

(

)

 

The ruling elites will want to build a new world upon these current conflicts-- the whole world is revolting, from Wisconsin to Arabia-- and its shape depends on the energy of the people. We can't let them use the energy from fear in these events to steal the minds of humanity further.

Edited March 17, 2011 by Nanashi

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

I submit that it's too early to tell one way or another. The only problem with the Best Minds scenario is that we don't have enough of them to keep the rest of the stupid bastards from screwing everything up in the first place! It would've been great if the best Minds could've weighed in at Chernobyl or deep-sea oilwells, but they're spread just too darn thin.

 

We've never encountered this problem before. No reactor has ever gotten so hot that we couldn't get close enough to cool it down so it's too soon to tell. As far as the Gulf of Mexico goes, it will take decades to measure any appreciable shifts in that ecosystem, so O wouldn't hold out for too much optimism.

 

But as an expectant father, part of me is compelled to.

Blasto, you're much more aware and tuned in to reality than your average father-to-be. I think that the Taoist Eco-Village is the best alternative, but it's still a long shot for survival, long term, if the shit really does hit the fan. I would find it torture to to be I. Your position, with what you know and with a little one on the way.

 

But then again, I tend to be extremely pessimistic about these things.

[Encephalon]

I can understand how attached people are to comfort, but I don't see how people can be blind to how fragile life and the Earth is. There are a number of things that can cease life unexpectedly, not to mention the the current worries or strange geologic afoot.

 

I am amazed people can be worried that a bum in an alley will mug them, but will vehemently deny that Global cartels bully nations into favorable resource trade, or actively stifle competition through monopoly. Or that certain first world nations prefer a docile and stupid population, where they can pick the leaders and engineers from a small pool of the elites' offspring, following the ancient tradition of arrogant nepotism. Sure, there are many who climb a ladder in think tanks, politics, companies, etc., but people don't seem to realize the overwhelming competition that exists when attempting to change the world or better your station in the face of elite social circles and other corrupt networking.

 

Concurrently, people can believe in mystical connotations to alter reality, or chants, symbols and other alchemical artifacts to manipulate energy or others-- but these same people will laugh at others for their notions of "taboo" or silly subjects. Even with all these strong perception biases attacking each other; it's all so impermanent.

 

(

)

 

The ruling elites will want to build a new world upon these current conflicts-- the whole world is revolting, from Wisconsin to Arabia-- and its shape depends on the energy of the people. We can't let them use the energy from fear in these events to steal the minds of humanity further.

 

Damn good stuff here, Nanashi. And it's really simple too, vastly more simple and more sensible than all the conspiracy theories thrown out. I hope our species can buy enough time to let this simplicity wash over us.

[Nanashi]

Notice how it attempts to give an inspiring impression, yet these words can also be heard as rather sinister.

[Encephalon]

Blasto, you're much more aware and tuned in to reality than your average father-to-be. I think that the Taoist Eco-Village is the best alternative, but it's still a long shot for survival, long term, if the shit really does hit the fan. I would find it torture to to be I. Your position, with what you know and with a little one on the way.

 

But then again, I tend to be extremely pessimistic about these things.

 

All I can say is, nei kung practice seizes hold of your endocrine system and dramatically reduces your stress level. I'd be freaking out without it, or completely despondent, i.e., a pothead back on the bottle.

[Nanashi]

Damn good stuff here, Nanashi. And it's really simple too, vastly more simple and more sensible than all the conspiracy theories thrown out. I hope our species can buy enough time to let this simplicity wash over us.

 

Yes, I think I can see why such strong emotions emerge when these topics are brought up-- among most of the social faux pas (religion, money and politics), the subjects that connect all three tend to challenge deep rooted value systems. And many ideas can sound so silly, of course a "rational" man will scoff at what isn't scientifically known.

 

Back to tying crisis and reaction: I liken it to Rinzai or Soto Zen sects. Events can happen over a long period of time, that the "camel's broken back" forces people awake, or that there is one gigantic circumstance that jolts one into another awareness.

 

But we can only watch what happens and endure. This may be a period of testing where the gradual and sudden disasters come to a head.

Edited March 17, 2011 by Nanashi

[hagar]

with all due respect, I think you're being melodramatic. Unless there's some development I'm not aware of (quite possible), I don't think we're looking at any kind of world changer. In my life time there have dozens of atomic and hydrogen bombs exploded(googled it got the figure from 1945 - 1998 is estimated to be 2,053). Every decade has brought 2 or 3 things that have been called game changers. Heck the last 3 years have brought 2 supposed world changes that have had fewer long lasting implications then most sooth sayers thought.

 

the worlds top minds are on the problem and Japan has many resources. Even in a worst case scenario I think there are plans A to Z getting in place to deal with it. My prediction is we're looking at 6 months to a year for resolution, maybe a few years at most. That doesn't mean it won't be a big radiactive site, but one covered with enough shielding so life will go on a few miles away.

 

i don't mean to belittle the tragedy; rather human ingenuity and flexibility can rival mother nature, because it was mother nature that made us what we are.

 

Michael

 

Michael

 

I hope you are right and I am wrong.

 

With my academic training taken into consideration, this event is a "Titanic-event", illustrating the idea that the scenario we now face is "highly improbable". This in effect means there are no backup or fall back procedures, no plan B.

We are now witnessing a life-changing event for atleast all of northern Asia, maybe the entire northern hemisphere.

In effect, there is no way of stopping the possible chain reaction that will result in a melt down of the storage facility, not taking the melt down of the reactors into consideration.

 

In the very likely case of the storage facility at reactor 4, containing 24000 times more plutonium and uranium than was released by the to atomic bombs during WW2, and no cooling, we are looking at a release of material into ground, water and air that may have irreversible consequences for life on the northern hemisphere for unforseeable time. The reason none of the major news organizations really post this up is towfold:

 

1. Most experts have vested interest as they represent state or govermental agencies that want to reduce panic in the populace, and unwanted economic side effects of finacial panic.

2. Experts tend to view their world from the techno scientific paradigm of hubris, meaning that they are trained to forsee scenarios within the known (existing data) realm. We are now in an unprecedented event, where the amount of radioactive material released, now and in the near future has never been seen before.

The people who with knowledge (the scientists and experts in nuclear safety and science) DO NOT KNOW. There is no scenario to compare an event of this magnitude.

 

Don't pray now. Look at the facts:

 

- There is no way of cooling the storage facility because: There is no way of doing it. The measuers of pouring water from helicopters is last resort. Its not working, and we have in practical terms a runaway train.

- The reactions from the melt downs in the facilty is out of control, meaning, we do not know the magnitude yet. Its allready worse than any other nuclear disaster.

- Japanese goverment wants to prevent panic

- When the fumes of the reactions reach the jet stream, we have, in practice contaminated air circling in high altitudes over the entire northern hemisphere.

- the scale of the food, water and energy crisis will depend on the imminent Tokai-quake not happening.

 

Again, I hope I'm wrong. I just read abit on the net, and pieced together what different sources are saying that have no vested interest in not being objective.

 

Melodrama or not, this is a tipping point that has allready occured.

 

h

Edited March 17, 2011 by hagar

[thelerner]

I submit that it's too early to tell one way or another. The only problem with the Best Minds scenario is that we don't have enough of them to keep the rest of the stupid bastards from screwing everything up in the first place! It would've been great if the best Minds could've weighed in at Chernobyl or deep-sea oilwells, but they're spread just too darn thin.

 

We've never encountered this problem before. No reactor has ever gotten so hot that we couldn't get close enough to cool it down so it's too soon to tell. As far as the Gulf of Mexico goes, it will take decades to measure any appreciable shifts in that ecosystem, so O wouldn't hold out for too much optimism.

 

But as an expectant father, part of me is compelled to.

 

Good stuff. The best minds weren't given access to Chernobyl, certainly not in the pivotal early period, nor was the best equipment at there disposal. The early story was secrecy and denial. In Japan, they're out there working.

 

The final story isn't written about the Gulf Coast, but the darkest scenarios haven't come to pass. Nature seems to have a genius for restoring itself. Undoubtedly there are tipping lines, but they tend to be further out then we imagine.

 

Again and again, incredible devastation is repaired in years. Life tends to find a way. People find solutions.

 

I'm optimistic. Though if you want to listen to a bad case scenario, here is one a friend sent me:

 

http://news.yahoo.com/video/tech-15749651/24532243

 

So the bad news is out there.

[Encephalon]

Good stuff. The best minds weren't given access to Chernobyl, certainly not in the pivotal early period, nor was the best equipment at there disposal. The early story was secrecy and denial. In Japan, they're out there working.

 

The final story isn't written about the Gulf Coast, but the darkest scenarios haven't come to pass. Nature seems to have a genius for restoring itself. Undoubtedly there are tipping lines, but they tend to be further out then we imagine.

 

Again and again, incredible devastation is repaired in years. Life tends to find a way. People find solutions.

 

I'm optimistic. Though if you want to listen to a bad case scenario, here is one a friend sent me:

 

http://news.yahoo.com/video/tech-15749651/24532243

 

So the bad news is out there.

 

Yep, it's bad. Although I have to say, Prof. Kaku's last line in the segment, that the US is safe, was deeply reassuring. It doesn't lessen the tragedy of the Japanese people though.

[joeblast]

*shrugs* Kaku is a bit of a quack, I've read a couple of his books - anyone subscribing to the AGW CO2 hysteria has got some fundamental misunderstandings, in my book

[Encephalon]

*shrugs* Kaku is a bit of a quack, I've read a couple of his books - anyone subscribing to the AGW CO2 hysteria has got some fundamental misunderstandings, in my book

 

I think "Quack" is a bit of a mischaracterization. There is no question that he falls on the left side of the political spectrum, but there are no formal voices amongst his peers claiming that his science or research is bogus or that he should be stripped of his credentials. He's not on a corporate payroll of any kind, either.

 

The cultural divide created by global climate change is real, but I think we have to at least agree that there are sincere people on both sides. I know for a fact that I took enough earth science classes to make an informed decision, even though i'm more of a cultural geographer.

[manitou]

 

Melodrama or not, this is a tipping point that has allready occured.

 

h

 

 

Is anyone here old enough to remember the movie On The Beach? I don't remember who was in it - came out maybe in the early 50's. I just remember the couple embracing each other in the sunset on the beach, knowing that the cloud of radioactivity was coming right at them.

[Otis]

*shrugs* Kaku is a bit of a quack, I've read a couple of his books - anyone subscribing to the AGW CO2 hysteria has got some fundamental misunderstandings, in my book

Does that mean you judge scientists, based on their politics?

[johndoe2012]

http://www.jaif.or.jp/english/

 

indeed it is quite sad to see that after Chernobyl it is the same pattern: low level people "Japanese Self-Defense Forces" are being sacrificed in the attempts of cooling down the reactor.

 

Regarding whether we as humans are able to invent new technology to have clean and safe energy, I can only say STRONG DETERMINATION and IMAGINATION will get you very far.

 

Saying that we cannot go on without oil, coal and nuclear power is shutting the mind of from finding solutions.

[johndoe2012]

It is in the interests of the multinational cartels to make sure we can't live without them.

 

I think what you are saying regarding cartels could be true.

 

I touched on the subject in the Zeitgeist moving forward thread: the Buddha was right. Fundamental ignorance causes the issues we face in today's world or in Ya Mu's words: the mind is the problem

 

Good Night, and Good Luck

[joeblast]

Does that mean you judge scientists, based on their politics?

Nope, his QM work is quite solid

[hagar]

 

Must see

 

h

[Trunk]

Dynamic nerd explains stuff,

[Birch]

He's not a real nerd! Or if he is then I'd love to see more nerds like this guy. The eyeglasses are too fashionable and the hand to eye gestures too coordinated. Far too cute n' elegant.

 

---fake nerd alert----

 

Or

 

At last! Knowledge-bearing is finally getting sex-appeal

 

But don't expect it to be taught in school, kids

 

That's what the internet is for :-)

[manitou]

Thanks for posting that Trunk - great, fast information. Stretched my gray matter to the limits.