Thunder_Gooch Posted March 18, 2011 (edited) The last thread was deleted I guess. I just want to post this here so people are aware, not to start a fight. There are several people here trying to sell this book, and I think it's important people are aware of it.  This is not aimed at accusing any members here on the tao bums, so do not take this personally.  Anyone here who offers to sell you a copy of the mozi neidan is scamming you.  If you do send them money, use paypal and ebay and initiate a claim, then escalate to a dispute immediately after two weeks if they do not ship the item, because they won't.  Do not send money via money order, cash, or western union.  The person who runs this blog: http://barangthailand.blogspot.com/2010/10/mozi-internal-alchemy-neidan-shu.html  Is a known scammer from Brisbane Australia. [email protected]  More info on the scam he runs selling people amulets and such but never sending the items as well as his paypal contact info are found on various forums like this one: http://amuletforums.com/archive/beware-person-n-blog-t5498.html  I've spoken with at least 2 other people that had their money taken and no item was sent. Edited March 18, 2011 by More_Pie_Guy 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeiChuan Posted March 18, 2011 Mods will probably get mad for me saying this. Â But im pretty annoyed the thread was pulled. Scammer was outed and the evidence was all over the thread, so he wines to you guys. Now he can just deny deny deny, and say "what thread?". Â pretty good work, just saying. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thunder_Gooch Posted March 18, 2011 Mods will probably get mad for me saying this. Â But im pretty annoyed the thread was pulled. Scammer was outed and the evidence was all over the thread, so he wines to you guys. Now he can just deny deny deny, and say "what thread?". Â pretty good work, just saying. Â Â I found the thread via google search moved to the pit I guess http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/17424-i-got-scammed-here-for-several-hundred-dollars/ 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeiChuan Posted March 18, 2011 I found the thread via google search moved to the pit I guess http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/17424-i-got-scammed-here-for-several-hundred-dollars/ Â Sorry mods Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheSongsofDistantEarth Posted March 18, 2011 Certainly lessons to be learned here...spiritual materialism from both sides, IMHO... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeiChuan Posted March 18, 2011 Certainly lessons to be learned here...spiritual materialism from both sides, IMHO... Â Hm good point Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apech Posted March 18, 2011 I found the thread via google search moved to the pit I guess http://www.thetaobum...undred-dollars/ Â I moved the other thread to the Pit because it wasn't really Taoist Discussion and I thought all the issues around this had been fully aired. Also I suspended EG for his post due to his insults to you ... and the Pit is a bit freer and easier than this part of Board for this kind of thing. I thought if things continued the way they were then I would end up suspending a few more and I didn't want to get to that point. I realise there are innocent and guilty parties in this and its pretty obvious to everyone which way round that is. Â People should be very wary of sending money to people unless they know and trust that person or its through paypal or ebay as suggested - it would also be a good idea to ask for evidence that the product actually exists I suppose. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thelerner Posted March 18, 2011 I moved the other thread to the Pit because it wasn't really Taoist Discussion and I thought all the issues around this had been fully aired. Also I suspended EG for his post due to his insults to you ... and the Pit is a bit freer and easier than this part of Board for this kind of thing. I thought if things continued the way they were then I would end up suspending a few more and I didn't want to get to that point. I realise there are innocent and guilty parties in this and its pretty obvious to everyone which way round that is. Â People should be very wary of sending money to people unless they know and trust that person or its through paypal or ebay as suggested - it would also be a good idea to ask for evidence that the product actually exists I suppose. Â Good decision. As more and more names, addresses, numbers and suspicions were being revealed, the possibility of defaming a wrong person increased. The Thread serves as an important cautionary tale. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thunder_Gooch Posted March 18, 2011 (edited) Good decision. As more and more names, addresses, numbers and suspicions were being revealed, the possibility of defaming a wrong person increased. The Thread serves as an important cautionary tale. Â I'd just like to point out I never gave out anyone's name, nor their full address, or full email address. I gave out a city, state, and zipcode and told people not to send money anywhere near it. I also gave out the last bit of an email address @somthing.com.au and told people not to send paypal payments to any addresses like that. I mentioned no ones name. Â The only information I gave out was related to this thread http://amuletforums.com/archive/beware-person-n-blog-t5498.html where the contact info for lucas huang from brisbane can be seen. Edited March 18, 2011 by More_Pie_Guy 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kronos Posted March 18, 2011 http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_M6vX869sJ90/TL5szlK68YI/AAAAAAAAAUc/mtCODSaCY78/s1600/mp.jpg I showed this picture to Master Wang and Richard 2 months ago and they confirmed me that this pages are not from a "manual", much more it seems to be a Fu. Look at it yourself for some minutes and feel 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gaxtal Posted March 18, 2011 Pie,  Compassion for you ! Don't worry about anything. You are all right, you didn't gave out anyone's name, nor their full address, or full email address. How merciful you are to the Liar and Scammer !! Believe everyone knows the famous story about "Farmers and Snake (here is the link)" . The snake is still around the cyberspace with many other IDs. So, be careful everyone !  It is obliviously showing this conclusion by the following evidences.  IDs A = "Elijah Wilson" / "Electric Gravity" / "Thundermind" IDs B = "lucas huang" / "TheTaoBum" IDs C= "lotus_born"/"sutra" /"Taozen"/"seongye"/ "XXNYC" etc. .....  IDs A +IDs B + IDs c = one group.  Evidence 1, link here:  Ken i know your upset about all the criticism i have layed on kathy over the years. It looks like i was right about her way back then and others can now see the same thing ? But please Dont use this opportunity to further your own petty arguments or try to boost kathy. You have had 3 years of blogs & articles but still have not been able to share 1 single technique or method by your school. Come back when you have something free to offer without $$$ attatched...............So please stop with the scam stuff, i could be driving a new car by now if i wanted and attend 100 wang liping seminars ...... Evidence 2 link here: TaoBum, you are an intelligent, reasonable, seeker of mastery. Ken here acts like he's knowledgeable, but honestly, he is simply an old friend of kathy li and takes every opportunity to show his bias. Jeannette is a direct contact for Grandmaster Wang as she is the one who studies three times per year with Grandmaster but Ken studied but only once and thus knows nothing about what is 'official'. Ken's bias is reinforced by not having spoken with Grandmaster directly for about a year; since the April 2010 intensive! he has no basis to determine who is 'official'.  Let it be known that Jeannette at Dragon Gate Academy in New York is every bit as Official as kathy. the only parties with this 'official problem' are kathy and kevin (husband) and yes, apparently their good friend, Ken. The New York branch supports Grandmaster Wang without ego. kathy seeks dominion; this is the difference.  Jeannette was very kind and helpful to me because i am a full time student; she made it possible for me to study with Grandmaster. She is really an awesome person, an enlightened student volunteer receiving absolutely no financial compensation. i want to say that she is the REAL, serious student whereas some others just have serious ego issues. The New York branch is growing rapidly; the current students practice twice per week together as a group and look forward to attending the April 2011 Intensive. Very few students come only once to an Intensive with Grandmaster because they make so much progress that they naturally wish to progress even more.  TaoBum, i do hope you will join us one day; for an Intensive directly with Grandmaster. the value will be made very clear to you; the practice is absolutely priceless. this cannot be compared to a disjointed, low vibe, egoistical, weekend retreat with kathy. see, clearly, 'more pie' didn't learn anything to encourage your attendance! after that weekend retreat, two years ago, he may never be motivated to study directly with Grandmaster. Sad.  Evidence 3 link here  I had friend who was an English major look at these and analyze capitalization and grammar and he was convinced they were written by the same person.  The writing styles are similar, the excuses are similar. Sorry I am fairly certain this is a big scam all of it. I am fairly certain you guys are just new accounts for the lucas huang guy. I am not sure your real identity. Sent 11 March 2011 - 04:05 AM Electric Gravity  I knew you mailed it out today before i logged into ttb. I was at work today and i got wrote up for no reason then on my way home i got pulled over and got a ticket for not stopping at a stop sign when i know i stopped. Plus it rained all the way home from work. I came home went to bed and had nightmares all night until i got up and prayed. After i was up i logged into here and seen your recent meassages and seen that i was right. After today which is one of the worst days ive ever had. I decided that i cant send you this book. Sent 29 January 2011 - 03:02 AM  TheTaobum  Quote Hey there pie, im so sorry for the late reply. Oh my goodness, so still nothig. I had the feeling right from the start that something bad will happen.i just hope it is lost & not in the hands of somebody tracking this forums etc. I had the internet crime squad come to my home last week. My ip address was being used by hackers to purchase items via stolen credit cards. I know it sounds ridiculous but im starting to think im getting hacked for this information. Pie guy im really developing in my training to the point my palms feel like pure steel. i also have developed a certain degree of ironshirt among other things. look mate i dont like asking for more money but yes of course it would help. if you prefer i can scan them this time. all the best pie & take care,  Thetaobum  Sent 17 February 2011 - 05:35 AM Quote Well i dont where i should start ? First of all i just want to sincerely apologize for the trouble/confusion/heartache surrounding these books. I want to give my word the money will be returned by 2 weeks at the very latest. I will try to send $100 tommorow or the weekend.[WHERE IS THE MONEY?] Im sorry if you feel you were scammed. Im not a scammer bro and that was never my goal to take money & run. Im just too afraid to make a decision. If you can only imagine some of the things i have been through the past 2 months ! I now know why kostas and many other people left this system for good. im a really superstitious person, perhaps sometimes too superstitious for my own good. But when i sent ( and send i did) the first copy before christmas i felt a little uneasy and was hesitant on sending this even then. When you told me it did not arrive after so long i immediatly took it as a warning or message. I dont want to go into everything, But some the most unnatural & spooky things you could never imagine have happened to me in the past month. something you will only see in a horror movie. Last tuesday i felt like mcdonalds. i dont eat junkfood that often but i was craving for something really greasy and unhealthy lol. To cut a long story short i was t-boned (hit) at approx 80klm while driving home, right at the front of a funeral home, of all places. ( i have been driving for 19 years with not one single accident,not even a scratch up to then). The guy who hit me was on the way to his wifes funeral, i was pushed up onto the footpath where my car landed upon a lady in her mid 60s, crushing both of her legs instantly. She was trapped under my car and shocked as i was, i still managed to drag myself out of the car and go right to her aid. As it turns out, she was just exiting the funeral home from her late husbands funeral. And im right in the middle of it. Im pretty sensitive to this stuff and i took it as an Omen. I really feel like im being warned here, and thats why i never even replied after you sent the last lot of money. I was so confused and tried to be skeptical about everything that has happened (believe me, the car crash is very mild compared to some other things/warning i have recieved). I never wanted to be a carrot dangler or anything of the sorts mate. I have followed internal martial arts & magic my entire life, i know what this book must mean to you and everybody else. Im still really in a state of shock at this time. You know i have not even logged in since you sent the money, today is the first after i recieve the dispute from paypal. I just didnt know what to do or say to you. Sometimes i like to crawl under the bed & wish my problems away. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheTaoBum Posted March 18, 2011 (edited) I moved the other thread to the Pit because it wasn't really Taoist Discussion and I thought all the issues around this had been fully aired. Also I suspended EG for his post due to his insults to you ... and the Pit is a bit freer and easier than this part of Board for this kind of thing. I thought if things continued the way they were then I would end up suspending a few more and I didn't want to get to that point. I realise there are innocent and guilty parties in this and its pretty obvious to everyone which way round that is. Â People should be very wary of sending money to people unless they know and trust that person or its through paypal or ebay as suggested - it would also be a good idea to ask for evidence that the product actually exists I suppose. Â Electric gravity was ousted for insulting ? Â Well what about more pie guy telling me to "Eat A Bag Of Dicks" ? Â Is he going to punished ? Â The same Rules should apply for everybody. This is very unprofessional to ban/suspend some members while others can say what they like without any repurcussions whatsoever ? Â Very sad day for the tao bums. Edited March 18, 2011 by TheTaoBum Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheSongsofDistantEarth Posted March 18, 2011 (edited) I'm about ready to pay each of you $150 just so y'all will just shuddup already. Â Hey everybody, don't spend your hard earned money on some manual called 'Mozi Neidan' that contains all the secrets to make you a powerful person who won't be so desperate as to keep sending more money to shady ripoff strangers on the internet. Â There. Now let it go and let's move on. Edited March 18, 2011 by TheSongsofDistantEarth 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apech Posted March 18, 2011 Electric gravity was ousted for insulting ? Â Well what about more pie guy telling me to "Eat A Bag Of Dicks" ? Â Is he going to punished ? Â The same Rules should apply for everybody. This is very unprofessional to ban/suspend some members while others can say what they like without any repurcussions whatsoever ? Â Very sad day for the tao bums. Â EG wasn't 'ousted' he was suspended because he broke mod guidelines. Â If you feel you have been insulted report the post using the report button. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ken Posted March 18, 2011 (edited) I'm about ready to pay each of you $150 just so y'all will just shuddup already. Â Hey everybody, don't spend your hard earned money on some manual called 'Mozi Neidan' that contains all the secrets to make you a powerful person who won't be so desperate as to keep sending more money to shady ripoff strangers on the internet. Â There. Now let it go and let's move on. Â Â The problem is that there is still the question of the un-refunded $150 which TheTaoBum has himself admitted of receiving. Unless this is resolved I don't think it's fair for MPG to just move on. But now if you are willing to give MPG $150 then I am sure he will be happy to take it and let this matter drop, otherwise you don't have any right to ask him to move on. Edited March 18, 2011 by Ken 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheTaoBum Posted March 18, 2011 The problem is that there is still the question of the un-refunded $150 which TheTaoBum has himself admitted of receiving. Unless this is resolved I don't think it's fair for MPG to just move on. But now if you are willing to give MPG $150 then I am sure he will be happy to take it and let this matter drop, otherwise you don't have any right to ask him to move on. Â Lets move on, Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thunder_Gooch Posted March 19, 2011 To be honest ken the money is gone, I am not getting it back. I just want to make sure no one sends more money into this scam. I'll wait till the time I gave him then I will file reports with local Brisbane and Australian federal police. I also plan on filing with scamwatch.gov.au and filing an official abuse complaint with paypal's fraud departments and his ISP(s)abuse departments. I'll be more than happy to sink more money than that book is worth into this, I'm one person you don't piss off because I never give up when I set my mind to something. Â Â The problem is that there is still the question of the un-refunded $150 which TheTaoBum has himself admitted of receiving. Unless this is resolved I don't think it's fair for MPG to just move on. But now if you are willing to give MPG $150 then I am sure he will be happy to take it and let this matter drop, otherwise you don't have any right to ask him to move on. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YMWong Posted March 19, 2011 http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_M6vX869sJ90/TL5szlK68YI/AAAAAAAAAUc/mtCODSaCY78/s1600/mp.jpg  I showed this picture to Master Wang and Richard 2 months ago and they confirmed me that this pages are not from a "manual", much more it seems to be a Fu. Look at it yourself for some minutes and feel  Kronos,  the attached picture IS a manual. It is a typical mijue manual which are instruction manuals held by most daoists and are usually passed on to disciples. I have a collection of around 2000 of these manuals, some of which dating as early as the late Ming dynasty, but of course the manual in the picture has nothing to do with Mozi or Djiang school  YM Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kronos Posted March 19, 2011 Kronos,  the attached picture IS a manual. It is a typical mijue manual which are instruction manuals held by most daoists and are usually passed on to disciples. I have a collection of around 2000 of these manuals, some of which dating as early as the late Ming dynasty, but of course the manual in the picture has nothing to do with Mozi or Djiang school  YM   But the link is Fu (which can do magic), not for practice Nei Gong. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gerard Posted March 19, 2011 To be honest ken the money is gone, I am not getting it back. I just want to make sure no one sends more money into this scam. I'll wait till the time I gave him then I will file reports with local Brisbane and Australian federal police. I also plan on filing with scamwatch.gov.au and filing an official abuse complaint with paypal's fraud departments and his ISP(s)abuse departments. I'll be more than happy to sink more money than that book is worth into this, I'm one person you don't piss off because I never give up when I set my mind to something.  MPG,  I have no idea if the scammer has changed already his details...probably he has, but you never know as sometimes bad karma gets them in the way they expect the least. Anyway his personal details are as follows:  The paypal address they used with me was: [email protected] Lucas Huang is the guys name and his address and phone number: 121 Queen Street Brisbane, Queensland 4207 Australia +61 451167399  Message posted on 4/03/10 at http://amuletforums.com/beware-person-n-blog-t5498p2.html  I will urge you to report this cyberthief to the Australian Federal Police:  https://forms.afp.gov.au/online_forms/report_a_crime   I wish you and the others good luck. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YMWong Posted March 19, 2011 But the link is Fu (which can do magic), not for practice Nei Gong. Â Kronos, Â with all due respect according to what you say I don't think you know the subject. The fact that the text shows some talismanic characters doesn't mean the text "is a fu" <sic>, as a matter of fact most mijue (instructional manuals) include talismanic characters. Moreover, I have not talked about 'neigong' Â YM Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kronos Posted March 19, 2011 (edited) I don't think you know the subject. Â I'm pretty sure I don't know the subject I can't read chinese characters nor have I any idea how the mo pai manual looks like. I went to Master Wang last christmas showing him the picture of the "manual", explained him the 4 levels of mo pai we have little knowledge of and asked him, if this document could be a page of the so called "mo pai manual". he answered: no, this is not what you described me. it's fu. Â But there is still the language barrier and maybe I didn't get it correctly. Edited March 19, 2011 by Kronos Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YMWong Posted March 19, 2011 I'm pretty sure I don't know the subject I can't read chinese characters nor have I any idea how the mo pai manual looks like. I went to Master Wang last christmas showing him the picture of the "manual", explained him the 4 levels of mo pai we have little knowledge of and asked him, if this document could be a page of the so called "mo pai manual". he answered: no, this is not what you described me. it's fu.  Well, Kronos, I have concurred with you that the image doesn't seem to belong to Djiang school (thou frankly speaking only those from that line could say for sure, right ?). What I replied to was your assertion that, and I quote: I showed this picture to Master Wang and Richard 2 months ago and they confirmed me that this pages are not from a "manual",much more it seems to be a Fu. and expressed my opinion that, in fact, that IS a manual.  Anyway, what is all that fuss about manuals ? Daoist manuals are totally useless for the non-initiates of that specific lineage, they are akin to the user manual of a Toyota sedan for somebody who has never seen a car: what would one do with that ?  Best  YM 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gendao Posted March 19, 2011 It is a typical mijue manual which are instruction manuals held by most daoists and are usually passed on to disciples.I have a collection of around 2000 of these manuals, some of which dating as early as the late Ming dynasty, but of course the manual in the picture has nothing to do with Mozi or Djiang school Are you able to really understand any of them? It seems like even if you know Chinese, they would still be hard to interpret?  For example, look at p14 of this Quanzhen Longmen ritual meditation mijue. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
