Mozi Neidan Scam

[Thunder_Gooch]

If you really did send the book the first time, I can't for the life of me see why you had such a big issue with scanning and emailing or resending via ups with a tracking number for an additional $150, especially since you agreed to it.

 

I don't really want to do any further business so this isn't an invitation, but I can't understand the logic involved.

 

 

Where the hell is my refund for sending the book which supposedly never arrived ? All you people are crying like babies yet i sent a book i paid good $$$ for with my own money now get strung up like this ! I completed my end of the deal yet still end up castrated.

 

As far as im concerned it been worked out with MPG. So talking with anybody else is useless. Its like neichuan paid for the book ,perhaps he was in on the group purchase ?

Edited March 21, 2011 by More_Pie_Guy

[Thunder_Gooch]

I sent $150, he claimed to send the book December 2010. I received nothing so I paid him $150 again to scan and email it or send ups with a tracking number, he did agree to scan and email/ups it before I sent the money again.

 

Weeks go by and he stops replying to messages or emails so I file a claim with paypal to get a refund. At this point he says he cannot do business with me for karmic reasons. I received a refund of $150 from paypal, which brought us back to $150 total owed. He made a payment of $25 to me as a partial refund, and I am giving him $25 because he claims to be out of pocket with expenses related to sending the book the first time.

 

This means he only owes me $100, and at $25 per month this should take about 4 months.

 

 

 

Hm you paid good money to have the book sent out? If I do remember MPG sent out more money to pay the expenses. Even to photocopy the book..

 

He wouldn't have opened up this thread if it were worked out now would he?

Edited March 21, 2011 by More_Pie_Guy

[Thunder_Gooch]

I do not believe lucas even has a copy of this book, I've spoken to a few people who are out the money they sent lucas and he never sent them anything.

 

Assuming that ttb isn't lucas himself (as they both live in Brisbane Australia), if ttb actually got a copy, he seems to be the exception to the rule.

 

Next? Is that all?

 

Btw I don't see why you just hadn't taken pics for MPG of diff pages of the book before sending, it'd really clear up some of the doubt.

 

Oh that's right you don't have the book.

 

Also im not upset I didn't see the book, im slightly annoyed you brought up the idea it could be used to benefit people though.

 

When it infact isn't in your possession.

 

You have no place to say "next", or to say for who to ban. You spent someone elses money. Whether or not connected taoist agrees EG is a part of it, he should be able to agree that you're just another snake in the grass.

 

Non contributing Zero you are.

Edited March 21, 2011 by More_Pie_Guy

[Thunder_Gooch]

It is my opinion the book doesn't exist, and you and lucas are either friends in real life or the same person altogether. I do not know the truth, but honestly it is too much for me to believe that both you and lucas are from Brisbane Australia and you just happen to be the first one to find this book an announce it here.

 

 

 

You should be banned for defamation and calling me lucas huang. Your just angry because you didnt see the book.

 

Next !

[Thunder_Gooch]

I believe this is my fault. I may have jumped to conclusions.

 

The reason I believed that electric gravity/thundermind was also thetaobum was because after I sent payment to EG/TM he said he couldn't sell to me as he was having bad karma.

 

This was exactly the same excuse thetaobum gave me after he was already paid twice for the book.

 

I was able to recover the letter I sent EG/TM via form 1509 and having my postmaster call his postmaster and return the letter to me.

 

Originally he had insisted on western union, and was reluctant to accept a money order.

 

I actually took the time to look up the name and address EG/TM provided me with in the ohio white pages online, and I gave the guy a call to find out if he knew anything about this.

 

The person I spoke with claimed to know a person into Taoist studies and interested in John Chang. He confirmed that his name and address were the ones EG/TM provided me with. He said he had never given EG/TM permission to use his address to receive money or to pickup a western union payment.

 

He further claimed not to know what thetaobums was, and did not even have internet at his house.

 

He seemed upset and told me he would speak with his friend and was deeply troubled by this.

 

I do not know if the person I spoke with was telling the truth, or was really EG/TM playing dumb but either way this person certainly is a scammer and deserves no apology.

 

 

Just a warning for the rest of the bums. Apparently Connectedtaoist cannot read.

 

Cause I said I don't believe EG is TTB.

Edited March 21, 2011 by More_Pie_Guy

[Thunder_Gooch]

Dear Connected Taoist,

 

Electric Gravity most certainly is a scammer. I called and spoke with the person's whose name and address he provided me with. He knew nothing about any of this and hadn't given EG/TM permission to use his address to accept payment. He claimed not to have internet, nor to know what thetaobums was. He was going to talk with his friend who was into Taoist studies and john chang as he seemed very upset by this. Or so he says if he really wasn't EG/TM himself playing dumb.

 

Also I payed thetaobum a total of $300.00 and I was able to get the last payment of $150 back. ttb also refunded me $25 and I agreed to knock of another $25 because he says he is out for the shipping and handling of the first book he claims to have mailed out to me but never arrived. this brings his outstanding balance to me down to $100.

 

 

 

 

Your not breaking my heart your just being illogical. You think that its more plausible that these 3 people who live on different sides of the planet are the same person bypassing all evidence instead of seeing the obvious which is that mpg tried to get the book 3 times and it failed all 3 times and he jumped to some crazy explanation to validate this short coming.

 

but you know what im going to side with you i think eg ttb and lucas are the same person networking worldwide to get a $50 money order only to deny it or $150 paypal then refund half of it.

 

And as a favor to me when you prove this let me know.

 

hey man you can believe what you want but i also have logic to and i see both sides of a story and i can say that both parties on both sides are in the wrong.

[Thunder_Gooch]

This is almost correct. I paid $150, never got the book, waited. We agreed I would send $150 more and he would this time email me the book, or use ups. He quit talking to me for a long period of time, and I filed a claim with paypal. I received $150 back from paypal after the claim was decided in my favor, this is not the same as a refund. This means $150 is still owed, as of today he has given me $25 refund via paypal, I agreed to take away another $25 as he claims to be out money from sending the book the first time, this brings the amount he owes to $100 which should take about 4 months to repay at $25 a month.

 

If you call that half, Fair enough. What is most necessary is TTB took money, returned only half (From what I believe).

 

He should have been dealt with. EG is another story I'll agree alittle more complex. Although in my opinion he isn't much different.

 

Sorry to break your heart.

[Thunder_Gooch]

I may be wrong that Electric Gravity/Thundermind (both from same area in Ohio USA) was the same person as Lucas/thetaobum (both from Brisbane Australia)

 

Sorry.

 

When EG/TM claimed he couldn't sell to me because he was having bad karma after I sent payment(the same excuse the ttb used after payment was sent) I was certain that they were the same person.

 

I find it odd that this behavior is shared between two separate individuals with the same MO. Absolutely bizarre in my opinion.

 

 

well heres the thing you keep linking eg and ttb but thing is you dont have to believe eg because mpg said he cancelled it and now he finally understands that these are 2 different people so its not a question of believing eg. Its a question of believing mpg who is now changing his view so what your saying is that you only believe half of what mpg said.

Edited March 21, 2011 by More_Pie_Guy

[Thunder_Gooch]

It is absolutely certain that EG/TM is a scammer. I actually called the person who's address EG/TM gave me. He claims to have no knowledge of thetaobums, and never gave his friend who is into taoist stuff his permission to use his address to accept western union payments or postal money orders made payable to him.

 

 

 

actually eg did and asked mpg to cancel the money order and mpg did cancel it. In either case it was eg who cancel the transaction not the other way around. A fact that people keep overlooking but whatever.

Edited March 21, 2011 by More_Pie_Guy

[Thunder_Gooch]

I believe that thetaobum is probably somewhere between 35-40 years old. In an earlier message to me he claimed to be driving 19 years without an accident before his car accident.

 

To cut a long story short i was t-boned (hit) at approx 80klm while driving home, right at the front of a funeral home, of all places. ( i have been driving for 19 years with not one single accident,not even a scratch up to then)

 

Assuming he started driving at 17-18 (which is when you are allowed to in Australia) that puts him at 36 or 37 years of age. He also referred to me as young man, which is something a teenager would not do. The recent young avitar is either a much younger portrait of himself or someone else altogether.

 

 

 

I Really think thetaobum was some teenager trolling MPG.

 

Read the end of all those e-mails. Crawl under my bed....

 

Yea sure

Edited March 21, 2011 by More_Pie_Guy

[connectedtaoist]

still calling him a scamer what did he scam you out of? Ok just to put this into perspective. Eg asked you to cancel the money order and then you did. He told you to do this the instant he found out you sent it. Then not even 24hrs later you posted here and called him a scamer and accused him of being other people. So he stood up and said that he wasnt a scammer and that he wasnt these people and that you were lying and this apparently got him banned from here. So then it turns out that he wasnt thetaobum you then decide to find his number and call him?!?!

 

you called the guy a scamer accused of being multiple people got him banned now your calling him? just leave the poor guy alone you sicko! but whatever right its all justified as long thetaobum pays you back the end justifies the means right?

[Apech]

still calling him a scamer what did he scam you out of? Ok just to put this into perspective. Eg asked you to cancel the money order and then you did. He told you to do this the instant he found out you sent it. Then not even 24hrs later you posted here and called him a scamer and accused him of being other people. So he stood up and said that he wasnt a scammer and that he wasnt these people and that you were lying and this apparently got him banned from here. So then it turns out that he wasnt thetaobum you then decide to find his number and call him?!?!

 

you called the guy a scamer accused of being multiple people got him banned now your calling him? just leave the poor guy alone you sicko! but whatever right its all justified as long thetaobum pays you back the end justifies the means right?

 

*** Moderation Message ***

 

User connectedtaoist has been suspended for 30 days for breaching the 'no insult' policy ... see highlighted text.

 

This is a contentious issue and while people are free to disagree and argue about facts they are not free to insult each other. Any user ignoring this will be suspended in a similar way.

 

Just for the record no-one has been banned as a result of these threads only suspended for a number of days after which they are free to return to posting.

 

*** Apech for Mod Team ***

[TheTaoBum]

Ok, just when you thought it was going to end

 

I was emailed some very interesting information & not sure if its been posted here.

 

http://www.edgeofgrace.net/2010/06/19/qigong-quacks-frauds-and-dangerous-egos/

 

This guy has a history of doing this. Note the name of the "Lineage" Mr Wu Jing claims to be from ! Sound familiar ?

[Ken]

I am quite willing to bet that connectedtaoist=eletric gravity=thundermind=Eli Wilson.

[goldentaoist]

Why didnt eg scam you? if he is a known scammer? Also if he is a scammer then why didnt he make a post or thread that he had the book? I mean if he was so inclined to do so?

 

but this is a nice deflection lets turn it to the guy who didnt scam you for the book! i mean 2 wrongs make a right eventually......... right?

 

i mean we have all been a right streak so far with all this energy sensing behind the posts! lol

Edited March 22, 2011 by goldentaoist

[Thunder_Gooch]

EG didn't have the opportunity to scam me because I took immediate action with my postmaster after he told me he would not sell to me (after he was notified of payment sent)

 

EG had me send payment to a person who knew nothing about the situation. The location of the address I was provided with was about 30 minutes away or less from TM's last known physical address. He had no knowledge that payment was coming. This person claimed to be friends with EG/TM, but he was unaware that EG/TM had given out his address and name for other people to send payment to. He was upset to learn this, and claimed he would speak to his friend about this asap. This is assuming the person I spoke with was telling the truth, and wasn't EG/TM playing dumb.

 

Assuming the person I called wasn't really EG/TM playing dumb, then he is using people he knows locally to launder his money so he doesn't accept it directly.

 

I've spoken with 2 people now who claim that EG/TM ripped them off, as well as the matter of selling copies of Gary Clyman's DVDs as his own.

 

Also he insisted on using western union which I refused to send payment with.

 

He is most certainly a scammer.

 

Also your use of an army of new accounts to defend yourself isn't fooling anyone

 

 

Why didnt eg scam you? if he is a known scammer? Also if he is a scammer then why didnt he make a post or thread that he had the book? I mean if he was so inclined to do so?

 

but this is a nice deflection lets turn it to the guy who didnt scam you for the book! i mean 2 wrongs make a right eventually......... right?

 

i mean we have all been a right streak so far with all this energy sensing behind the posts! lol

Edited March 22, 2011 by More_Pie_Guy

[goldentaoist]

i dunno man sounds like to me that if he wanted to scam you he wouldnt have told you to cancel the money order and then he would have just avoided you afterwards.

 

now im not the smartest person in the world but i thought that a scammer like scams people ya know.

 

dude you dont need any help in fooling your self just listen to you. oh yeah you took swift action after he told you to cancel it. you really dodged the bullet there.

 

i mean with all the high level chi kung you do you should have used your super duper chi powers to sense it in the first place but maybe thats why you were looking for the lost book of mo pai in the first place. I guess we will never know now.

Edited March 22, 2011 by goldentaoist

[Thunder_Gooch]

I can say with 100% absolute certainty that the person known as electric gravity and thundermind absolutely is a scammer.

 

 

 

i dunno man sounds like to me that if he wanted to scam you he wouldnt have told you to cancel the money order and then he would have just avoided you afterwards.

 

Well this book sounds like a scam and im talking about lucas i mean just imagine it he could sell that book for thousands if he had it not hundreds but thats another issue.

[goldentaoist]

is scammer a good thing to call someone? i mean if it is then i can why your not being banned for it. unless scammer is better than liar in some way but i always thought that scammer somehow equaled liar?

 

i dunno im not as smart as the rest of the high level practitioners.

[goldentaoist]

I can say with 100% absolute certainty that the person known as electric gravity and thundermind absolutely is a scammer.

so he scammed you right i mean he never told you to cancel the money order?

[Thunder_Gooch]

A person who copies other peoples dvd's and sells them as his own is a scammer.

A person who sells fake systems and fake lei shan dao gurus to people is a scammer.

 

There is no better word for it, and it isn't name calling. What he is doing is highly illegal.

 

I probably should have western unioned him the money so I could driven my happy butt out to Ohio and filed a police report when he failed to deliver. Sorry I didn't take one for the team here.

 

is scammer a good thing to call someone? i mean if it is then i can why your not being banned for it. unless scammer is better than liar in some way but i always thought that scammer somehow equaled liar?

 

i dunno im not as smart as the rest of the high level practitioners.

[Thunder_Gooch]

so he scammed you right i mean he never told you to cancel the money order?

 

He never got a money order from me, I was at the post office ten minutes after he told me he "couldn't" sell to me. So no, no crime occurred between him and I personally as I proactively prevented it from occurring.

 

This person however is selling other people's systems as his own, and making lots of money doing it, claiming to have a fake school and a fake guru and a bunch of dvd's he pirated and sold to other people as his own materials.

 

That absolutely is about as big a scam as it gets my friend. If you are his buddy in real life I suggest you distance yourself from him, if you assist him in receiving money and he sends them pirated copyrighted goods you are an accessory to the crime.

 

This guy is going to run into some serious legal trouble and everyone associated with him is going to be sucked into it.

 

Best stay away with a 100ft pole.

Edited March 22, 2011 by More_Pie_Guy

[goldentaoist]

Your biggest argument doesnt apply to this topic. I know its hard but just answer the questions posted to you. Did eg tell you to cancel the money order?

 

why did you say he scammed you?

 

Im going to teach you something repeat after me "I was wrong" you dont have to make up elaborate conspiracies just admit the obvious truth.

 

I got some advice for you because you seem that you need it.

 

1. Handle your disputes with people that you have actual financial transactions with.

 

2. Admit when you are wrong.

 

3. try paying for the book in full.

 

4. make theories that includes all the evidence.

[goldentaoist]

He never got a money order from me, I was at the post office ten minutes after he told me he "couldn't" sell to me. So no, no crime occurred between him and I personally as I proactively prevented it from occurring.

 

This person however is selling other people's systems as his own, and making lots of money doing it, claiming to have a fake school and a fake guru and a bunch of dvd's he pirated and sold to other people as his own materials.

 

That absolutely is about as big a scam as it gets my friend. If you are his buddy in real life I suggest you distance yourself from him, if you assist him in receiving money and he sends them pirated copyrighted goods you are an accessory to the crime.

 

This guy is going to run into some serious legal trouble and everyone associated with him is going to be sucked into it.

 

Best stay away with a 100ft pole.

 

too bad he told you to cancel it then if that wasnt possible he also offered to refund you or he would mail you out a money order of the same amount. Just tell the truth(sounds like a real scammer to me). we all saw the message he posted. you were only posting bits and pieces of his replay to you.

Edited March 22, 2011 by goldentaoist

[goldentaoist]

if eg didnt take your money but you called him a scammer anyways then wouldnt that be lying? i dunno i mean if you lied about that then why wouldnnt you lie about anything else- im just saying?