Mozi Neidan Scam

[Thunder_Gooch]

You're able bodied and want the rest of us to support you? If you want to work half time and cultivate fine, but you want assistance?

Jeez, have you no pride?

 

Well I dunno it's an idea I'm playing with. I've never applied to such a program, but it seems like most of the community where I live uses these programs. Where I live it seems ubiquitous, and normal. It seems like one of those things that if you qualify based on your income, it would be like not taking a tax deduction you qualify for.

 

Working a 20 hour per week minimum wage job means I will be living off about $124 a week after taxes. I won't starve on that, but assistance programs probably would help a lot.

 

I would legally qualify for things like foodstamps at that point, and many college students also utilize them, without feeling the least bit guilty.

 

I see what I want to do as similar to that of a college student.

 

Maybe I am just rationalizing. Maybe it would be an unethical choice.

 

If you think it's unethical I'll meditate more on it, I don't want to feel more guilty than I already do. I eat meat (chicken, turkey) but it's something that bothers me a lot and causes me a lot of guilt.

 

It just seems like a normal thing to do here where I live as everyone else uses these programs.

Edited March 23, 2011 by More_Pie_Guy

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Maybe it would be an unethical choice.

 

Yup. If you're able bodied. That's not what assistance programs are for. You'll be there with the disabled folks picking up your food stamps. Plus, you seem to have some very...unique ideas about spirituality and what kind of transformation one must go through in order to be liberated from rebirth and the Wheel of Existence. I think you need to have some character and spirit development, rather than being able to do tricks with your chi.

 

What do you imagine attaining a high mo pai level will do for you? You've basically disregarded Buddhism flat out, since you can't see any Buddhists who are enlightened. What makes John Chang or his teachers free from rebirth?

You don't seem like you've thought deeply about this stuff, you're in such a hurry to get rid of the Earth plane and end your bodily existence.

 

College students either earn a scholarship or pay back a loan.

Edited March 23, 2011 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[Thunder_Gooch]

I haven't disregarded Buddhism completely, I've just never heard of any Buddhist master or otherwise claim to have freed themselves from rebirth. I've bought several Buddhist books that others suggested I read dealing with rebirth and spoken with many Buddhists about this to no avail. What I've found is that with all the Buddhists I've spoken with rebirth is a taboo subject, and there is no way to stop it because it doesn't happen.

 

I am following the best leads I have at the moment, but I am open minded to others as well.

 

I haven't really heard of any other systems that show results like the schools I am interested in, I am sure they are out there but I am ignorant of them. I just want out as quickly and efficiently as possible, and from my own research Buddhism doesn't seem to offer what I am looking for.

 

Traditionally Buddhist monks used begging bowls while they meditated relying on others to feed them to survive, I believe they too could have gotten off their lazy asses and worked more as well.

 

I'll meditate more on this, and think about it carefully before I decide anything.

 

Yup. If you're able bodied. That's not what assistance programs are for. You'll be there with the disabled folks picking up your food stamps. Plus, you seem to have some very...unique ideas about spirituality and what kind of transformation one must go through in order to be liberated from rebirth and the Wheel of Existence. I think you need to have some character and spirit development, rather than being able to do tricks with your chi.

 

What do you imagine attaining a high mo pai level will do for you? You've basically disregarded Buddhism flat out, since you can't see any Buddhists who are enlightened. What makes John Chang or his teachers free from rebirth?

You don't seem like you've thought deeply about this stuff, you're in such a hurry to get rid of the Earth plane and end your bodily existence.

 

College students either earn a scholarship or pay back a loan.

[YMWong]

Songofdistantearth raises some very important points here, and I'd like to add my comments if I may.

Hopefully I won't sound too judgmental.

 

Doing by choice a bare minimum and yet making use of government support is, in my opinion, opposite to any path of spiritual/human development.

Actually it is the other way round, we are supposed to do our best if we have the chance to earn up and return whatever we can to those in need, those who really HAVE NO OTHER CHOICE and must be supported.

 

Moreover, MPG, I really can't see how one can plan his life on something he has totally no idea about.

How in the world do you know we are going to be reborn, what do you know for sure about that?

For as much as we know we might dissolve into nothing and you would be affecting your whole life, and your family and those around you, on a totally wrong belief.

 

Finally, again, you are after things you don't know (Mo Pai, Longmen) and about which you have only assumptions. Wrong assumptions in my opinion.

Yet, you tell us you practice now once a week "but plan to retire and do more later".

You have "Daoist Yoga" and find it gibberish, yet you take the pain of buying a book even more gibberish (and in Chinese) from a stranger ov the web: for what, if I may ask ?

I am afraid, my friend, you are really going the wrong way. I am sure you trust it is the right thing but .... well ...

 

My suggestion is simple: find a master and work it out NOW!

Don't worry about the future, about rebirth and about ANYTHING you don't know and you have not experienced yet.

Work it out now, don't wait, and when you'll start experience what it is you can start making plans - STEP BY STEP (only short term goals that are within your reach) - and go ahead with that.

You will discover, trust me on that, that it is no what you think it is

 

Best in your trip

 

YM

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

I haven't disregarded Buddhism completely, I've just never heard of any Buddhist master or otherwise claim to have freed themselves from rebirth. I've bought several Buddhist books that others suggested I read dealing with rebirth and spoken with many Buddhists about this to no avail. What I've found is that with all the Buddhists I've spoken with rebirth is a taboo subject, and there is no way to stop it because it doesn't happen.

 

I am following the best leads I have at the moment, but I am open minded to others as well.

 

I haven't really heard of any other systems that show results like the schools I am interested in, I am sure they are out there but I am ignorant of them. I just want out as quickly and efficiently as possible, and from my own research Buddhism doesn't seem to offer what I am looking for.

 

Traditionally Buddhist monks used begging bowls while they meditated relying on others to feed them to survive, I believe they too could have gotten off their lazy asses and worked more as well.

 

I'll meditate more on this, and think about it carefully before I decide anything.

 

 

Well, what are "results" you mean? Ability to manipulate chi doesn't mean anything other than that.It seems you equate spiritual attainment with fireworks and "results". I'm sorry, but I am not impressed with your spiritual search. It's very, very superficial, the path you describe for yourself. What the heck happened to you that you abhor life on earth so much that you would rather be without awareness for eternity than alive?

 

And being on public assistance does not equal monks with begging bowls. Go beg then, or get sponsors, but shamelessly going on public assistance 'cause you would rather spend your time meditating...you already know that ain't right. (Don't let Joeblast find out!). I certainly would have no respect for someone who is doing what you proposed.

Too bad you weren't able to apply yourself early in life to make something of yourself and 'retire' early to follow the path of a sadhu, or found something where you could pull your own weight and still have enough time to cultivate...it's possible. I worked 1/2 to 2/3 time for many years and made a nice living helping people.

Edited March 23, 2011 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[YMWong]

Traditionally Buddhist monks used begging bowls while they meditated relying on others to feed them to survive, I believe they too could have gotten off their lazy asses and worked more as well.

 

Again, MPG, I don't think you are looking at it from the right perspective.

 

Daoists also are required to beg for food, especially Quanzhen and therefore Longmen.

But this is done to help get rid of ego and offers of food come from the rich, they would not eat food taken from the poor.

 

Which brings me to suggest you another book by Eva Wong called "Seven Taoist Masters" which is the novelized story of Quanzhen founder and his seven disciples, one of which is the founder of Longmen. Although that is a novel it is very much based on actual history and you can see hints of what begging and money are meant for on a Daoist path.

 

Best again

 

YM

[Creation]

Hey MPG.

 

From what you have said you fit the description of a person on the pratyekabuddha path to a T. As for Buddhists claiming to have freed themselves from rebirth, well if someone claims to be a Arhat (aka Arahant), part of that is being free from ever having to be reborn again, at least not in the desire realm (not sure about the technical details). Daniel Ingram is an example of a Buddhist teacher who claims to be a Arhat.

 

There are many forms of "immortality" that people talk about. The Mo Pai idea of being able to retain your Yang qi after death does not sound like freedom from rebirth for all time because it did not cut the root of unconscious rebirth. More like you would get to be in spirit form, who knows for how long, but eventually you would be reborn. Don't know if that is acceptable to you.

[Thunder_Gooch]

Well it's all in context I guess, if I were a Buddhist monk out with my begging bowl near a temple somewhere, that would be morally acceptable to most. If I save up to buy my own property and work 20 hours a week to support myself and pursue meditation and training full time, living below poverty level and using foodstamps I am being leech on society.

 

It seems the dissent here is strong against this action so I will just go ahead and write it off as a bad idea morally. It's a thought I was having issues with, living on a $124 a week budget is going to be tough, much more so with no assistance. I guess technically and legally qualifying for something isn't the same as ethically and morally qualifying for it. I guess it probably isn't a good idea. I guess you are right, if I want to live in poverty I shouldn't ask for help.

 

The way I see it there are several possible scenarios for what happens after death. Rebirth is the only one I find unacceptable, so much so I would give up on trying to live a normal life to try to prevent it. I've had some experiences that lead me to believe in rebirth, as well as other masters like John Chang, Wang Liping, and Chunyi Lin espousing their belief it happens.

 

I've already gotten more teachings from the longmen pai system than I could possibly master in 5 years even training full time. I have plenty to work with for some time.

 

I appreciate your opinion and input on what I should be doing, but I won't be seeking out any masters until I feel worthy as a student, that's what this is all about for me.

 

I have to get into the position where I can better myself. It would be absolutely silly to seek out a master if I haven't done all I can with what I've been given first.

 

I am working as much as I can handle and stay sane I am averaging 45+ hours at my current job, and I do computer repair work on the side. I am investing all I can afford to in gold and when I have enough saved I will cash in and buy property.

 

I've put my training on hold, mostly because of the stress. I can't focus on meditation after work and being stressed I am going to have to change my environment before I can resume training. Or at least that is how I feel.

 

 

 

 

Songofdistantearth raises some very important points here, and I'd like to add my comments if I may.

Hopefully I won't sound too judgmental.

 

Doing by choice a bare minimum and yet making use of government support is, in my opinion, opposite to any path of spiritual/human development.

Actually it is the other way round, we are supposed to do our best if we have the chance to earn up and return whatever we can to those in need, those who really HAVE NO OTHER CHOICE and must be supported.

 

Moreover, MPG, I really can't see how one can plan his life on something he has totally no idea about.

How in the world do you know we are going to be reborn, what do you know for sure about that?

For as much as we know we might dissolve into nothing and you would be affecting your whole life, and your family and those around you, on a totally wrong belief.

 

Finally, again, you are after things you don't know (Mo Pai, Longmen) and about which you have only assumptions. Wrong assumptions in my opinion.

Yet, you tell us you practice now once a week "but plan to retire and do more later".

You have "Daoist Yoga" and find it gibberish, yet you take the pain of buying a book even more gibberish (and in Chinese) from a stranger ov the web: for what, if I may ask ?

I am afraid, my friend, you are really going the wrong way. I am sure you trust it is the right thing but .... well ...

 

My suggestion is simple: find a master and work it out NOW!

Don't worry about the future, about rebirth and about ANYTHING you don't know and you have not experienced yet.

Work it out now, don't wait, and when you'll start experience what it is you can start making plans - STEP BY STEP (only short term goals that are within your reach) - and go ahead with that.

You will discover, trust me on that, that it is no what you think it is

 

Best in your trip

 

YM

Edited March 23, 2011 by More_Pie_Guy

[Thunder_Gooch]

Thanks, yes I plan on asking for his advice on rebirth after I finish his book, and reread it a few times. I've asked on his forum for advice on ending rebirth only to be met with "you are a retard, rebirth doesn't occur" type flames.

 

I as well do no know if spiritual immortals live forever as spiritual beings, but it looks like maybe if hard work and boostraps can elevate a human to a spiritual immortal, then maybe the same holds true in the afterlife, maybe it is a continue process to stay ahead of the decay of entropy, I don't know.

 

Maybe when you die that's it, I'd be rather pleased if this was the case.

 

 

 

Hey MPG.

 

From what you have said you fit the description of a person on the pratyekabuddha path to a T. As for Buddhists claiming to have freed themselves from rebirth, well if someone claims to be a Arhat (aka Arahant), part of that is being free from ever having to be reborn again, at least not in the desire realm (not sure about the technical details). Daniel Ingram is an example of a Buddhist teacher who claims to be a Arhat.

 

There are many forms of "immortality" that people talk about. The Mo Pai idea of being able to retain your Yang qi after death does not sound like freedom from rebirth for all time because it did not cut the root of unconscious rebirth. More like you would get to be in spirit form, who knows for how long, but eventually you would be reborn. Don't know if that is acceptable to you.

Edited March 23, 2011 by More_Pie_Guy

[Thunder_Gooch]

Yet, you tell us you practice now once a week "but plan to retire and do more later".

You have "Daoist Yoga" and find it gibberish, yet you take the pain of buying a book even more gibberish (and in Chinese) from a stranger ov the web: for what, if I may ask ?

 

My life and environment are too chaotic, I need to work less to get some sort of normalcy in my life to get back in the zone for training. I am in the process of getting into the position to pursue training full time, and I feel like I am doing the best I can. I meditate on my off days after all the shopping and chores are done and everything else is taken care of, when I work my nerves are sore and my mind is inundated with chaos.

 

Eventually I will get around to sitting down and scanning the taoist yoga book, I plan on replacing each weird obscure term with plain and simple english, then going back and simplifying down to a grade school level. That is what it would take for me to be able to read it without wincing, and is actually on my todo list, just way in the back.

 

I thought the mozi neidan book probably was a fake book, but the slim hope that it might be legit clouded my judgement. I was hoping that should it be legit it could be translated professionally via a group effort, although I knew the odds of such being very low. It was pretty retarded of me to believe that some guy who sells amulets on a blog could ever somehow find such an important text, I guess I just wanted to believe.

[Cat Pillar]

For me, I'm planning on working it this way. I'm working full time at a good job. Once I get rid of those financial vampires, I'm going to be stockpiling money. Probably for years. Once I can afford it I'm going to start talking to those who have traveled abroad (especially to Taiwan and China) for training, so I can get some advice on how to go about it myself.

 

In the meantime, I'm studying gung fu (Wing Chun), I meditate daily, and will be adding qigong to my practice. I've noticed that BK Frantzis' standing postures and some of the movements are very similar to things I've already learned in Wing Chun, so it should be easy for me to slip into that. (Although I still want to check out Lomax's material...will be buying his book soon too.)

 

Also, I'm working on dealing with all of my emotional and psychological issues - I know all of my internal conflicts will need to be resolved eventually on this path, so I'm working with all of that now too.

 

I'm trying to balance my development as much as possible, very much in a way similar to what Franz Bardon suggests in Initiation Into Hermetics - physical, emotional/psychological/mental, and spiritual. The Astral Mirror is a concept that's really stuck with me - balancing out my qualities and refining my character is a big part of my practice.

 

Rebirth is not a concern for me, cuz I don't know if rebirth is real. I DO however want to see how far I can go in this lifetime, since it might be my only one. I'm intrigued by the stories of the Immortals, and I want to find out for myself is such a thing can really be accomplished, and is actually a part of our reality rather than a mythological story.

 

Edit - if there's one thing I can suggest, it is to make time to meditate daily. You will be surprised at how over time your ability to deal with stress increases. It may be really really hard to find the time, and you may feel too chaotic - but trust me, it helps. I would suggest a calming, relaxing meditative practice - like Frantzis' Longevity Breathing, or some other breath-based practice. Don't worry so much about the chaos in your mind, simply accept it for what it is and do the best you can with what you have. You'll have to face all that chaos eventually anyways, best to start doing it now. You'll be better prepared for the rest of your journey if you do.

Edited March 23, 2011 by Cat Pillar

[YMWong]

Eventually I will get around to sitting down and scanning the taoist yoga book, I plan on replacing each weird obscure term with plain and simple english, then going back and simplifying down to a grade school level. That is what it would take for me to be able to read it without wincing, and is actually on my todo list, just way in the back.

 

But my question is: how on earth could you ever do that?

For somebody who has a kindergarten education and can barely read is it possible to "translate in simple English" the blueprints of a nuclear plant?

And once you have done that, supposing you do, what can the use of that writing be?

 

Those are "user manuals" to be gone through with the help of a teacher from that lineage, who teaches you what those words mean PRACTICALLY and even then you really understand them AFTER you have done the practice and experienced those words by yourself ...

 

Best is always to take one step at the time, never make any assumption, and plan goals that are WITHIN REACH only.

You will find that, by the time you have reached that first (close to you) goal your understanding has a lady changed and you next goal is going to be in a different direction that you had expected

 

YM

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

My life and environment are too chaotic, I need to work less to get some sort of normalcy in my life to get back in the zone for training. I am in the process of getting into the position to pursue training full time, and I feel like I am doing the best I can. I meditate on my off days after all the shopping and chores are done and everything else is taken care of, when I work my nerves are sore and my mind is inundated with chaos.

 

Eventually I will get around to sitting down and scanning the taoist yoga book, I plan on replacing each weird obscure term with plain and simple english, then going back and simplifying down to a grade school level. That is what it would take for me to be able to read it without wincing, and is actually on my todo list, just way in the back.

 

I thought the mozi neidan book probably was a fake book, but the slim hope that it might be legit clouded my judgement. I was hoping that should it be legit it could be translated professionally via a group effort, although I knew the odds of such being very low. It was pretty retarded of me to believe that some guy who sells amulets on a blog could ever somehow find such an important text, I guess I just wanted to believe.

 

It might be worth your while to develop/cultivate while you are working, since you never no how long this phase will last. If 'mindfulness' is too dull for you, try Gurdjieffian Self-Remembering and Self-Observation. If you can't wake up from anywhere in your life, you'll find you are your own worst enemy when you finally create all the "right" conditions to escape rebirth. Gurdjieff stressed the friction of being in life for development, rather than creating special conditions in order to cultivate.

 

This book will keep you busy for a long while; you may dismiss it as not 'powerful' or exotic enough, but you would be making a mistake.

[Thunder_Gooch]

I don't hate life on earth so much as I find it bizarre and death/rebirth unacceptable.

 

Life itself just seems so bizarre, I woke up here as a child with no memories just poof here I am, I have to destroy and eat other lifeforms to continue to exist, and my body is rotting and soon in a few decades I'll be gone again back to the state I was before my birth. That is bizarre, and really if I had a choice in the matter I'd stop the cycle (if there is one) altogether. I don't want to have to go through the birth and death cycle any more, I am making an effort in this life to stop it, should it exist. If rebirth doesn't occur, that's fine too, I wouldn't see my life as wasted. I am just ready to get off the merry-go-round, that is how I feel with every fiber of my being.

 

Eternal nonexistence while less preferable to spiritual immortality is a reasonable facsimile to it in my opinion. I don't feel that wanting to dedicate the rest of my life to training and meditation to end rebirth is superficial, but maybe you disagree with my reasoning behind the goal. Whatever, it's my life to be superficial with I guess

 

Also you criticize me for not making something of my life, well I went into the field I enjoyed most (computer repair, networking) and I am probably the most competent tech in my area, I am one of the few A+/Net+ certified techs here. I do all the extra work I can handle on the side.

 

I could make more money if I moved to the city, but the much higher rent, higher cost of groceries, need to have a newer car for transportation, would mean I would actually earn less than I do now, not to mention the increased stress and effects of pollution of all kinds on health.

 

If I had to do it over again I would have gone into a better paying field like optometry or pharmacy, but that is hindsight now and I don't have the desire to go back to school for eight years to get a job I would have a hard time doing part time.

 

I don't believe it is possible to work full time and seriously dedicate your life to training, so I am going to work part time to support myself. If I have to give up electricity, and motor vehicles to train full time I guess I will.

 

I've thought seriously about going back to school but there are no good paying jobs that can be done part time that don't involve being around sick and dying people or infectious diseases. I spent weeks researching the BLS.GOV occupational outlook handbook which lists virtually every job type, the demand for it, it's working conditions, pay etc. I can't find anything that is in demand, that pays well,and that you can do part time. I contacted career councilors and job advisers asking this same question with no answer other than go into nursing or start your own business.

 

I've toyed with the idea of running my own business, I know I could make it work. The problem however is time, I would be pouring more time and effort into it than I am now. That kind of defeats the point.

 

My father is a very very very successful business man, he's made more money than I could ever hope to, but he is also very miserable and worked his body until his spine is broken (literally). He has all this money, but lost most of it due to bad business investments. He has traded his time, his very lifeblood for money, and now he's lost his most of his money. Even when he had money though, he was still miserable. Work, work, work, money, money, money, but no time to enjoy any of it.

 

 

The amount of life, and soul my father poured into his quest for wealth ultimately brought him nothing, and I don't plan on following his example.

 

I just want the basics and to work as little as possible to support a minimal existence.

 

Also I do see monks who beg for food as similar they are basically asking the community to feed so they can focus on their training, it's just more socially acceptable that way.

 

Well, what are "results" you mean? Ability to manipulate chi doesn't mean anything other than that.It seems you equate spiritual attainment with fireworks and "results". I'm sorry, but I am not impressed with your spiritual search. It's very, very superficial, the path you describe for yourself. What the heck happened to you that you abhor life on earth so much that you would rather be without awareness for eternity than alive?

 

And being on public assistance does not equal monks with begging bowls. Go beg then, or get sponsors, but shamelessly going on public assistance 'cause you would rather spend your time meditating...you already know that ain't right. (Don't let Joeblast find out!). I certainly would have no respect for someone who is doing what you proposed.

Too bad you weren't able to apply yourself early in life to make something of yourself and 'retire' early to follow the path of a sadhu, or found something where you could pull your own weight and still have enough time to cultivate...it's possible. I worked 1/2 to 2/3 time for many years and made a nice living helping people.

[Thunder_Gooch]

Books like Taoist Yoga are written in a manner that makes them difficult to understand without constantly looking up and defining terms. The notion that the text could not possibly be rewritten in simple English, in a very clear and concise manner is false however. It would take probably hundreds of hours of work but it isn't something that is impossible like you make it out to be.

 

Maybe we aren't on the same page, what I am wanting to do is something like this:

 

http://www.enotes.com/hamlet-text/act-i-scene-i

 

It is side by side modern translation of a hard to understand text.

 

 

 

 

But my question is: how on earth could you ever do that?

For somebody who has a kindergarten education and can barely read is it possible to "translate in simple English" the blueprints of a nuclear plant?

And once you have done that, supposing you do, what can the use of that writing be?

 

Those are "user manuals" to be gone through with the help of a teacher from that lineage, who teaches you what those words mean PRACTICALLY and even then you really understand them AFTER you have done the practice and experienced those words by yourself ...

 

Best is always to take one step at the time, never make any assumption, and plan goals that are WITHIN REACH only.

You will find that, by the time you have reached that first (close to you) goal your understanding has a lady changed and you next goal is going to be in a different direction that you had expected

 

YM

Edited March 23, 2011 by More_Pie_Guy

[TheTaoBum]

Hey MPG.

 

From what you have said you fit the description of a person on the pratyekabuddha path to a T. As for Buddhists claiming to have freed themselves from rebirth, well if someone claims to be a Arhat (aka Arahant), part of that is being free from ever having to be reborn again, at least not in the desire realm (not sure about the technical details). Daniel Ingram is an example of a Buddhist teacher who claims to be a Arhat.

 

There are many forms of "immortality" that people talk about. The Mo Pai idea of being able to retain your Yang qi after death does not sound like freedom from rebirth for all time because it did not cut the root of unconscious rebirth. More like you would get to be in spirit form, who knows for how long, but eventually you would be reborn. Don't know if that is acceptable to you.

 

I read on verdesi's forum long ago that arhat or its equal (If there is one?) is somewhere around level Two or Three Mo-Pai. This theory was also supported by denty and some other ex students too.

 

Thanks.

Edited March 23, 2011 by TheTaoBum

[YMWong]

Books like Taoist Yoga are written in a manner that makes them difficult to understand without constantly looking up and defining terms. The notion that the text could not possibly be rewritten in simple English, in a very clear and concise manner is false however. It would take probably hundreds of hours of work but it isn't something that is impossible like you make it out to be.

 

Maybe we aren't on the same page, what I am wanting to do is something like this:

 

http://www.enotes.com/hamlet-text/act-i-scene-i

 

It is side by side modern translation of a hard to understand text.

 

Maybe I am not clear enough on what I am trying to say, I am sorry.

 

Your example is not useful, as it "translate" a 'subject' you know about.

 

One thing is the "technical terminology" that of course can be translated into understandable English, but once you have done that you are still left with a useless text.

In my nuclear/kindergarten example, more close to the situation at hand, you can translate the technical terminology of "a proton" to a "subatomic particle" but it won't make much difference for a reader like my mom who has no specific formation/education on the subject. To be frank, even my idea of "a proton" is very superficial and to be able to read (and gather a bit of useful info) from your translation of a nuclear plant manual it would take me thirty years of schooling.

 

May I respectfully ask you how old are you, MPG?

 

YM

[Thunder_Gooch]

Do you own a copy of Charles Luk's Taoist Yoga? It is written in English, just very poorly written in my opinion.

 

What I am saying is the use of terms like original cavity of the spirit, fiery bellows, lead, mercury, generative force, etc should be defined and the terms should be western descriptive not mystical and esoteric.

 

There is a glossary of terms in the back of the book for reference.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Taoist-Yoga-Immortality-Charles-Luk/dp/0877280673#reader_0877280673

 

 

My age should factor into anything, may I ask why you want to know?

 

Maybe I am not clear enough on what I am trying to say, I am sorry.

 

Your example is not useful, as it "translate" a 'subject' you know about.

 

One thing is the "technical terminology" that of course can be translated into understandable English, but once you have done that you are still left with a useless text.

In my nuclear/kindergarten example, more close to the situation at hand, you can translate the technical terminology of "a proton" to a "subatomic particle" but it won't make much difference for a reader like my mom who has no specific formation/education on the subject. To be frank, even my idea of "a proton" is very superficial and to be able to read (and gather a bit of useful info) from your translation of a nuclear plant manual it would take me thirty years of schooling.

 

May I respectfully ask you how old are you, MPG?

 

YM

Edited March 23, 2011 by More_Pie_Guy

[zerostao]

your age should factor

Taoist Yoga is not poorly written. Your level of understanding has not reached the level of this book. I have a friend who has 30+ years taiji experience. He is studying Taoist Yoga now , but not yet starting to practice much of it. You are at beginner level the book is way advanced level.

You learn the alphabet before you read Spinoza for example.

 

You have some good ideas , such as leading a frugal life. You are going to have to put your thoughts into action. Step by Step. My practice is baguazhang , I literally have to practice and learn step by step.

[Thunder_Gooch]

Well, what are "results" you mean? Ability to manipulate chi doesn't mean anything other than that.

 

My personal theory is this; the spirit is just a biological yet energetic copy of the physical body, in doing spiritual training and meditation you are gathering energy to feed, nourish, strengthen and bring the spirit to a healthy state.

 

Most people never do that, their spirit is atrophied from lack of use and when they die, their spirit is ejected from the body at death it is weak and feeble like a child being born into the world.

 

People who have reached a high level of advancement like John Chang would hit the ground running at the point of death with a fully developed and strong spirit.

 

There are lots of schools that focus on philosophy, and morality, and magick, and ritual, and religious taoism, and lots of other things.

 

In my opinion all of that is just a waste of time, if you aren't actually getting results that you can see, and feel, and know, then what is the point of wasting your time with it?

 

It seems you equate spiritual attainment with fireworks and "results".

 

I consider schools which don't get results ineffective, if you aren't training to actually accomplish something then wtf is the point? Just seems like a way to bide your time studying philosophy or something I guess it's good for the entertainment it provides but at the point of death I doubt such training will have done you any good.

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry, but I am not impressed with your spiritual search. It's very, very superficial, the path you describe for yourself.

 

I am not very impressed with spirituality in general as it is marketed to the spiritual community, it's just another philosophy of the month club as far as I am can tell. I am concerned with actually accomplishing something in a real and physical sense.

 

What the heck happened to you that you abhor life on earth so much that you would rather be without awareness for eternity than alive?

 

I would still be interested in this, and I plan on continuing to ask master wang liping about the method of cutting the root of the spirit.

[Thunder_Gooch]

The book may be advanced but it isn't written for a laymen. It could be, and should be rewritten in the simplest terms possible. As it stands it is like trying to read Shakespeare, it is very possible to do with much research and analyzing obscure terms, but it's painful and boring to do that. Shakespeare can be re-translated in simple modern English, and in fact it has been, so has the Christian bible.

 

http://www.enotes.com/william-shakespeare/shakespeare-modern-english

 

your age should factor

Taoist Yoga is not poorly written. Your level of understanding has not reached the level of this book. I have a friend who has 30+ years taiji experience. He is studying Taoist Yoga now , but not yet starting to practice much of it. You are at beginner level the book is way advanced level.

You learn the alphabet before you read Spinoza for example.

 

You have some good ideas , such as leading a frugal life. You are going to have to put your thoughts into action. Step by Step. My practice is baguazhang , I literally have to practice and learn step by step.

Edited March 23, 2011 by More_Pie_Guy

[Gaxtal]

Stigweard,

 

snake is still around the cyberspace with many other IDs. So, be careful everyone ! The skin of snake is all taken off in certain period of time.

 

SNAKE SKIN is a Chinese Traditional Medicine drug. Reading through the thread might functioned as using SNAKE SKIN.

 

It has a lot of e-xian re-incarnating here over and over...in a desperate bid to escape their karma.

 

The ID "goldentaoist" definitely is some snake's new skin. Is there any news need to be added ? Are this one (title: Wang Li-Ping Seminar 15-18th March) and one (title: David Shen Verdesi) need to be added ?

 

 

Oi goldentaoist ... why is that you have only started an account today and this is the only thread you are posting in ... makes me wonder it does ...

 

Edited March 24, 2011 by Gaxtal

[gendao]

Do you own a copy of Charles Luk's Taoist Yoga? It is written in English, just very poorly written in my opinion.

 

What I am saying is the use of terms like original cavity of the spirit, fiery bellows, lead, mercury, generative force, etc should be defined and the terms should be western descriptive not mystical and esoteric.

 

There is a glossary of terms in the back of the book for reference.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Taoist-Yoga-Immortality-Charles-Luk/dp/0877280673#reader_0877280673

Right, most all of those terms are actually defined in the book itself. For example, "generative force" = jing. Once you get used to the lingo, you can understand the text.

 

But the real problem is that the book is mostly a repetitive, loosely-organized Q&A - and not very linearly sequenced. This format could be helpful from the standpoint in that a lot of specific details get covered. But, what it lacks is a simplified overview or outline of the process.

 

Which someone could extract from the book as a useful condensed supplement. I could even do it, if I had the time, but I am in the same time crunch as MPG here.

 

I basically also agree that you can't really make fast progress with a full-time job.

 

Because it seems like you need about 3 hrs daily practice just to maintain (compensate for normal degeneration), 4 to make some progress & 6-8 to really accelerate. Most of the TBs here who were able to practice 6-8 hrs daily for some period (drewhempel, phore, etc) were unemployed at the time. Of course, being broke is not a sustainable lifestyle and will eventually retard your progress after a while too.

 

 

BTW, if people don't think that they're already supporting a lot of irresponsible slackers on welfare in this country...you need to spend some more time out in the hood.

Edited March 23, 2011 by vortex

[skyfly]

Kronos,

 

Did you read the FACTS and EVIDENCES ? I was astonished to get some information sending from friends. It is said that there are evidences　（conversation being recorded　& witness）confirm "TheTaoBum" = Jeannette = "DragonGateNYC".

 

Someone witnessed the conversation told me another astonished information: In the Dec. 2010 class, the price for the Africa American (Kw...e) going together with Jeannette is $3900, and the American (Ga....l) and you going together with the rest of the group is $3200. Did you also quote your bringing together friends (Asil in 2009, Cl...dio in 2010) extra $700 ($3900 - $3200 = $700) ?

 

you're wrong about IDs C: DragonGateNYC, I know Jeanette, like a lot of other users here. I met her twice in Dalian and also in Beijing. Last time 3 months ago. I think she has nothing to do with the other two groups

Edited March 24, 2011 by skyfly

[Thunder_Gooch]

I am not sure of who is who anymore but I don't think that ttb is Jeannette as she is in New York. She seemed like a very nice person when I met her, I've been told they charge more for the retreat with master wang than the laozi academy but I haven't called myself to check prices as I am not interested in going to china right now. I don't know the truth of the situation, only that she and her friend Carlos seemed like nice enough people. I think it was probably a bad idea to form a second group as it really confuses people as to who you are supposed to go through, or at least it does me. I don't really know anymore so I can't say.

 

 

Kronos,

 

Did you read the FACTS and EVIDENCES ? I was astonished to got some information sending from friends. It is said that there are evidences　（conversation being recorded　& witness）confirm "TheTaoBum" = Jeannette = "DragonGateNYC".

 

Someone witnessed the conversation told me another astonished information: In the Dec. 2010 class, the price for the Africa American (Kw...e) going together with Jeannette is $3900, and the American (Ga....l) and you going together with the rest of the group is $3200. Did you also quote your bringing together friends (As..l in 2009, Cl...dio in 2010) extra $700 ($3900 - $3200 = $700) ?

Edited March 23, 2011 by More_Pie_Guy